blocks with "poly" tops. - Page 2

Fixittt · 06-08-2002, 09:22 AM

well I have been running the same block for almost a year now.

Once you have insured it doesnt leak (over 24 hours of testing) then you should be all set. Cracks should only happen when stress is put on the plastic so take it easy, put a little vasoline on your hoses when you put them on, and you should be all set

GenGoku · 06-08-2002, 02:07 PM

Quote:

put a little vasoline on your hoses

Not a problem

Sorry, I couldn't resist

BTW, how goes it with the spir@l production?

*mat-ster* · 06-08-2002, 07:24 PM

My first post on this forum,
Be gentle

Hi All

I Just had to say something, after reading this post....

I have moulded, burnt, bent, froze, snapped, heated, stretched, dissolved, scanned, and extruded various polymers for nearly 9 years, I'mm no poymer professor but I like to think I know a bit about...blah....blah :shrug:

Ok I'll get to the point, I was thinkin about

Quote:

now while a plastic type top will never ever ever be as strong as a soldered on copper top. There has to be something said for the way it looks, not only that, but to be able to take it apart and clean the inside. U know, to get all the growy stuff out if need be. Yes acrylic, and other plastics will crack.

*Many polymers are "stronger" (Tensile, Flexural & Impact properties) than copper. In fact high grade copper is fairly brittle!
A soldered copper block/barbs can NEVER be as strong as an all in one plastic injection overmould - as used in formula 1 rads!

*The visual side of things has only just been touched on, what about a plastic that conducts heat or produces a thermochromic luminescent display. Function not just aesthetics - markers which glow the temperature of the block!

*The "growy stuff" (bacteria and fungi) plastic can be extruded with additives that prevent the growth of bacteria, the surface can be "slippy" to prevent fugi hold'in on - as used for cattle tags.

*What does the future (now) hold,
nano-technology - reducing surface friction, sense flow, pressure and temp, never mind the POLYmorph (shape change) at the flix of a switch.

OK, OK what am I getting at, well the BEST polyblock should be
UV, Glycol, Antistatic, Flame retardant and Hydrolysis resistant to prevent :-
Cracking - stress fracture, UV degredation
Warping/swelling - good dimensional stability/deflection under load.
Staining/discolouration - migration/absorption.
Burning/emitting static charge - It's inside a computer!

Poly(Methyl MethAcrylate) is one of the last polymers that I would select for this kind of CRITICAL application.
A good use for Acrylic - Mmmmm let me think

A decorative Acrylic piano..........

On a more serious note
IMHO have a word with the peeps who extrude the polymer.
The channel design for the TC-4 is Brilliant - Respect

Fixittt · 06-08-2002, 09:36 PM

thanks for the imput.

but being a small timer like myself, and only limited to certain matirals i can find localy, I have to use what I can get.

I know some plastics are very hard and durable, the stuff in bullet proof vests for one. But im poor white people, and I cant afford to hunt down the exotic stuff.

maybe some insite, and a few contacts could help out the situation?

*mat-ster* · 06-09-2002, 07:55 AM

OK,

The best thing about plastic is that it's cheap!
It's when U produce specialised, small quantity components it becomes more expensive.
Your in the US I take it!

If your a "small timer" then Injection moulding would be out of the question, however with a bit of advice from a University or academic establishment
(UK example - http://www.brad.ac.uk/acad/irc/) coupled with your fantastic CNC skills, well the sky's the limit.

I'mmm sure there is a US equiv that could give non-biased advice on this subject, indeed it would be a fantastic project for a student of material science etc.

This is a very expensive approach to tool up and test however

So I would advise U go down this route
Try a plastics forum for contacts, and impartial advice.
e.g. http://www.plastics.com/pforums.php see what other peeps have to say.

Right what would I do in your position - for a more "suitable" alternative (in sheet form) the trick is to get the right polymer AND the right grade........this is where the likes of GE plastics come in.

Hav a go at this and see what pops out

http://www.gestructuredproducts.com/...x.jsp?FormID=1

Lexan looks promising

If you contact them* for advice they will point ya in the right direction, in fact you should be able to get a free sample!

Did ya know KEVLAR(R) was developed for space!
Bullet proof "glass"? LEXGUARD(R)
*Polymer manufacturers NOT warehouses, DIY stores etc....
Mat

Fixittt · 06-09-2002, 01:01 PM

Thanks fpr the links Matt.

Ill will follow up on them and see what and see what pans out.

you have been a great help on this.

I would love to make tops that would not crack.
and something that is easy to machine. My little desktop CNC mill loves to melt plastic.

And welcome top the forums.

gone_fishin · 06-09-2002, 01:07 PM

I was under the impression "Lexan" was a brand name for polycarbonate made by one specific company but they are the same thing?

*mat-ster* · 06-09-2002, 02:10 PM

U R right Lexan® is Just a trade name like Tygon® but beware they are not all the same formulations.

Makrolon® is another trade name for Polycarbonate http://www.amco.ws/plastics/bayer/makrolon.asp

The important thing is - what grade.
e.g best Tygon tubin for a W/C rig would be R-3603

Fixittt please post when U have your project finished with Pics

Mat

Fixittt · 06-09-2002, 04:37 PM

Matt,

I have many projects in progress, which would U be refering to?

gone_fishin · 06-09-2002, 05:07 PM

This is what happens to acrylic when the wrong combination of cleaners are used (murpheys oil soap then rubbing alcohol). It only took two seconds for all them cracks to form once the alcohol touched the surface. I suspect a lot of cracked tops are caused by stuff like this getting down into the tap holes for the barbs.

Fixittt · 06-09-2002, 05:57 PM

NEVER USE rubbing alchohol. EVER NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!

GenGoku · 06-09-2002, 06:34 PM

any suggestions on what to use?

Cyco-Dude · 06-09-2002, 07:27 PM

haha, i read about that in some clear case article. alcohol + acrylic = crax. use acrylic cleaner (if thats what youre trying to do).

*mat-ster* · 06-09-2002, 08:35 PM

Environmental Stress Cracking Chemical Resistance of Polycarbonate is exceptional, the new EXL grade from GE is astounding..........

(can not post table) but standard PC is good against WD-40, 10%lgepal, 3% Sulphuric acid and Dupont Krytox GPL103 Lubricant to name a few, What is rubbing alcohol - Acetone ?

Acrylic has fair to poor chemical resistance!
I wonder what active ingrediants are in antifreeze and water wetter etc........

Do a little test for me and put some of this rubbing alcohol on a old CD and tell me what happens? :shrug:

BTW Fixittt - how silly of me nealy forgot, which project, well errrrmmmmm your next bullet proof lexguard top

- Only Jokin the TC-4, shame no one sells em over here

Cyco-Dude · 06-09-2002, 11:29 PM

i dunno whats in WW, but ethane-glycol is the typically the active ingrediant in antifreeze, along with corosion inhibitors.

acetone is acetone (dont know chemical name / formula). rubbing alcohol is an alcohol called 2-propanol (also known better as denatured alcohol and isopropyl alcohol).

TiTch · 06-10-2002, 12:40 PM

Hi Mat*ster (seams to recignise that name

) Fixittt makes the spir@l, Dtek makes the TC-4 and Gemini is made by someone else, they just all sell through Dtekcustoms to confuse us all. Dtek will ship to the UK as they are selling me one

bigben2k · 06-10-2002, 12:58 PM

Way to go TiTch! I'll be even more jealous when I see the numbers...

TiTch · 06-10-2002, 01:41 PM

Will it be the TC-4 figures or TC-4 with the 220w tec figures you are talking about.

bigben2k · 06-10-2002, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TiTch
Will it be the TC-4 figures or TC-4 with the 220w tec figures you are talking about.

Hey! Don't get cute with me...

jtroutma · 06-10-2002, 03:56 PM

Titch:

How about any figures!?!?!

Fixittt · 06-10-2002, 05:34 PM

Yeah, Like what was said above, I am the maker of the Spir@l block, Danny over at Dtekcustoms, makes the TC-4. I have had some small imput in them, but no design descisions. just kinda helped him along with some small problems.

Man I cant wait untill we can release the new Spir@l block, and maybe, if I can figure out how to do it... there maybe another in the line of Spir@l blocks. I have the proto type block started. its just gonna take some time to get it right.

GenGoku · 06-10-2002, 05:44 PM

new spir@l? Will it have that strong poly top?

gmat · 06-11-2002, 02:11 PM

Hey *mat-ster* ! Welcome to procooling forums !
I see you're in Europe. I'm currently looking for "plastic" sheets to build up a cutom case. I thought about Lexan, but didnt find any. Then i found a "Altuglass" (euro brand name of Plexiglass) provider in Lyon, France.
I'm also looking for clear + rigid tubing. Straight tubes, bents , tees and so on. Small diameter (12mm to 20mm)
Any advice ?

PS: ah if you know where to buy Tygon in Europe please tell me where

*mat-ster* · 06-12-2002, 06:21 AM

Clear PC http://www.clearpc.ca/ use
3/16" thick Cast Clear Lucite®, (Acrylic)
they have a distributor in France http://www.textorm.com/pr_trcase.html but if U really want to spend more money for the pleasure - it sounds like U are a Real Modder

so hav a look at the numerous "Clear PC build guides on the web" first

One I like is the http://www.bit-tech.net/article/72/
http://www.bit-tech.net/article/67/ this case is made of Plexiglas G, cell cast acrylic.
Lexan® is fairly expensive so Lucite (for a case would be better)

I had a quick look in the UK but still expensive http://www.diyplastics.com/perspexplexiglassprices.htm

Have you tried a Local "Do It Yourself store" we call em B&Q, Do it all over-here they usually stock acrylic in various thicknesses

I'vve gotta go to work now! so I'll be back, to finish my reply
The Tube, Bends, etc is proving more difficult for me to find too

My ongoing quest also

Mat (OOhh thnx for the welcome)

TiTch · 06-12-2002, 03:02 PM

Have just ordered my TC-4 poly top, cant wait

06-08-2002, 09:22 AM	#26
Fixittt CNC Beyatch Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Tulsa Spell it backwards Posts: 721	well I have been running the same block for almost a year now. Once you have insured it doesnt leak (over 24 hours of testing) then you should be all set. Cracks should only happen when stress is put on the plastic so take it easy, put a little vasoline on your hoses when you put them on, and you should be all set __________________ Creator of the Spir@l Block Longest post ever http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&postid=43808#post43808

06-08-2002, 09:36 PM	#29
Fixittt CNC Beyatch Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Tulsa Spell it backwards Posts: 721	thanks for the imput. but being a small timer like myself, and only limited to certain matirals i can find localy, I have to use what I can get. I know some plastics are very hard and durable, the stuff in bullet proof vests for one. But im poor white people, and I cant afford to hunt down the exotic stuff. maybe some insite, and a few contacts could help out the situation? __________________ Creator of the Spir@l Block Longest post ever http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&postid=43808#post43808

06-09-2002, 07:55 AM	#30
mat-ster Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Manchester UK Posts: 30	Mr Fixittt OK, The best thing about plastic is that it's cheap! It's when U produce specialised, small quantity components it becomes more expensive. Your in the US I take it! If your a "small timer" then Injection moulding would be out of the question, however with a bit of advice from a University or academic establishment (UK example - http://www.brad.ac.uk/acad/irc/) coupled with your fantastic CNC skills, well the sky's the limit. I'mmm sure there is a US equiv that could give non-biased advice on this subject, indeed it would be a fantastic project for a student of material science etc. This is a very expensive approach to tool up and test however So I would advise U go down this route Try a plastics forum for contacts, and impartial advice. e.g. http://www.plastics.com/pforums.php see what other peeps have to say. Right what would I do in your position - for a more "suitable" alternative (in sheet form) the trick is to get the right polymer AND the right grade........this is where the likes of GE plastics come in. Hav a go at this and see what pops out http://www.gestructuredproducts.com/...x.jsp?FormID=1 Lexan looks promising If you contact them* for advice they will point ya in the right direction, in fact you should be able to get a free sample! Did ya know KEVLAR(R) was developed for space! Bullet proof "glass"? LEXGUARD(R) *Polymer manufacturers NOT warehouses, DIY stores etc.... Mat

06-09-2002, 01:01 PM	#31
Fixittt CNC Beyatch Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Tulsa Spell it backwards Posts: 721	Thanks fpr the links Matt. Ill will follow up on them and see what and see what pans out. you have been a great help on this. I would love to make tops that would not crack. and something that is easy to machine. My little desktop CNC mill loves to melt plastic. And welcome top the forums. __________________ Creator of the Spir@l Block Longest post ever http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&postid=43808#post43808

06-09-2002, 02:10 PM	#33
mat-ster Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Manchester UK Posts: 30	U R right Lexan® is Just a trade name like Tygon® but beware they are not all the same formulations. Makrolon® is another trade name for Polycarbonate http://www.amco.ws/plastics/bayer/makrolon.asp The important thing is - what grade. e.g best Tygon tubin for a W/C rig would be R-3603 Fixittt please post when U have your project finished with Pics Mat Last edited by mat-ster; 06-09-2002 at 02:49 PM.

06-09-2002, 01:07 PM	#32
gone_fishin Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2002 Location: Da UP Posts: 517	I was under the impression "Lexan" was a brand name for polycarbonate made by one specific company but they are the same thing?

06-09-2002, 04:37 PM	#34
Fixittt CNC Beyatch Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Tulsa Spell it backwards Posts: 721	Matt, I have many projects in progress, which would U be refering to? __________________ Creator of the Spir@l Block Longest post ever http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&postid=43808#post43808

06-09-2002, 05:57 PM	#36
Fixittt CNC Beyatch Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Tulsa Spell it backwards Posts: 721	NEVER USE rubbing alchohol. EVER NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!! __________________ Creator of the Spir@l Block Longest post ever http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&postid=43808#post43808

06-09-2002, 06:34 PM	#37
GenGoku Cooling Savant Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Southern California Posts: 177	any suggestions on what to use?

06-09-2002, 07:27 PM	#38
Cyco-Dude Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dayton, Ohio Posts: 836	haha, i read about that in some clear case article. alcohol + acrylic = crax. use acrylic cleaner (if thats what youre trying to do).

06-09-2002, 08:35 PM	#39
mat-ster Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Manchester UK Posts: 30	Environmental Stress Cracking Chemical Resistance of Polycarbonate is exceptional, the new EXL grade from GE is astounding.......... (can not post table) but standard PC is good against WD-40, 10%lgepal, 3% Sulphuric acid and Dupont Krytox GPL103 Lubricant to name a few, What is rubbing alcohol - Acetone ? Acrylic has fair to poor chemical resistance! I wonder what active ingrediants are in antifreeze and water wetter etc........ Do a little test for me and put some of this rubbing alcohol on a old CD and tell me what happens? :shrug: BTW Fixittt - how silly of me nealy forgot, which project, well errrrmmmmm your next bullet proof lexguard top - Only Jokin the TC-4, shame no one sells em over here Last edited by mat-ster; 06-09-2002 at 08:54 PM.

06-09-2002, 11:29 PM	#40
Cyco-Dude Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dayton, Ohio Posts: 836	i dunno whats in WW, but ethane-glycol is the typically the active ingrediant in antifreeze, along with corosion inhibitors. acetone is acetone (dont know chemical name / formula). rubbing alcohol is an alcohol called 2-propanol (also known better as denatured alcohol and isopropyl alcohol).

06-10-2002, 12:40 PM	#41
TiTch Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: London, UK. Posts: 64	Hi Mat*ster (seams to recignise that name ) Fixittt makes the spir@l, Dtek makes the TC-4 and Gemini is made by someone else, they just all sell through Dtekcustoms to confuse us all. Dtek will ship to the UK as they are selling me one __________________ www.gibtek.co.uk

06-10-2002, 12:58 PM	#42
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Way to go TiTch! I'll be even more jealous when I see the numbers... __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

06-10-2002, 01:41 PM	#43
TiTch Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: London, UK. Posts: 64	Will it be the TC-4 figures or TC-4 with the 220w tec figures you are talking about. __________________ www.gibtek.co.uk

06-10-2002, 03:56 PM	#45
jtroutma Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: SLO, CA Posts: 837	Titch: How about any figures!?!?! __________________ Athlon64 X2 4200+ @ 2.5Ghz (250FSB x 10) OCZ VX 1GB 4000 @ 250FSB (6-2-2-2 timmings) DFI LANParty nForce4 Ultra-D SCSI Raid 5 x (3) Cheetah 15K HDDs LSI Express 500 (128MB cache) OCZ PowerStream 520W PSU ATI X850XT PE (Stock) DTEK WhiteWater + DTEK Custom Radiator Eheim 1250

06-10-2002, 05:34 PM	#46
Fixittt CNC Beyatch Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Tulsa Spell it backwards Posts: 721	Yeah, Like what was said above, I am the maker of the Spir@l block, Danny over at Dtekcustoms, makes the TC-4. I have had some small imput in them, but no design descisions. just kinda helped him along with some small problems. Man I cant wait untill we can release the new Spir@l block, and maybe, if I can figure out how to do it... there maybe another in the line of Spir@l blocks. I have the proto type block started. its just gonna take some time to get it right. __________________ Creator of the Spir@l Block Longest post ever http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&postid=43808#post43808

06-10-2002, 05:44 PM	#47
GenGoku Cooling Savant Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Southern California Posts: 177	new spir@l? Will it have that strong poly top?

06-11-2002, 02:11 PM	#48
gmat Thermophile Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: France Posts: 1,221	Re: Plastic is Fantastic! Hey mat-ster ! Welcome to procooling forums ! I see you're in Europe. I'm currently looking for "plastic" sheets to build up a cutom case. I thought about Lexan, but didnt find any. Then i found a "Altuglass" (euro brand name of Plexiglass) provider in Lyon, France. I'm also looking for clear + rigid tubing. Straight tubes, bents , tees and so on. Small diameter (12mm to 20mm) Any advice ? PS: ah if you know where to buy Tygon in Europe please tell me where

06-12-2002, 06:21 AM	#49
mat-ster Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Manchester UK Posts: 30	Clear PC http://www.clearpc.ca/ use 3/16" thick Cast Clear Lucite®, (Acrylic) they have a distributor in France http://www.textorm.com/pr_trcase.html but if U really want to spend more money for the pleasure - it sounds like U are a Real Modder so hav a look at the numerous "Clear PC build guides on the web" first One I like is the http://www.bit-tech.net/article/72/ http://www.bit-tech.net/article/67/ this case is made of Plexiglas G, cell cast acrylic. Lexan® is fairly expensive so Lucite (for a case would be better) I had a quick look in the UK but still expensive http://www.diyplastics.com/perspexplexiglassprices.htm Have you tried a Local "Do It Yourself store" we call em B&Q, Do it all over-here they usually stock acrylic in various thicknesses I'vve gotta go to work now! so I'll be back, to finish my reply The Tube, Bends, etc is proving more difficult for me to find too My ongoing quest also Mat (OOhh thnx for the welcome) Last edited by mat-ster; 06-12-2002 at 06:25 AM.

06-12-2002, 03:02 PM	#50
TiTch Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: London, UK. Posts: 64	Have just ordered my TC-4 poly top, cant wait __________________ www.gibtek.co.uk

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