New To watercooling!! what a disaster! Help!! - Page 2

MeltMan · 07-03-2002, 02:50 PM

Hey hey hey, dont give up yet. Its a DAY old. You need to take a deep breath and find where your weakness lies. I think your weakness may be that weak waterblock on the computer. If you think you are going to try pelts, the only way you will get good results is to watercool the pelt. You're stuck watercooling either way to get good results. Your pump is very weak, and your waterblock is el-cheapo. I think these are your weaknesses.

Tubing size will not make much difference at all.

Was the heatercore NEW? It is most likely not your weakness. Heatercores are great cheap rads.

A rio180 is a very underpowered pump. Are you getting any flow at all? Have you done a test loop to see your flow after the rad?

The waterblock should be effective, but only with sufficient flow. It is aluminum, so give it a break. Take your hand and feel the waterblock. Is it warm? If it is, you are having low to no flow. If it is cool, then there is an interface problem between it and the chip.

Do these things, and post again.

bigben2k · 07-03-2002, 03:13 PM

Yur giving up pretty quickly, aren't you?

Reading over everything, it looks like your heater core might need cleaning.

I wouldn't have picked up a used one myself. They're cheap enough, at $20, to get a new one, and they are the best rads you can get, but hey, you have to go with what you have.

bigben2k · 07-03-2002, 03:16 PM

I agree with Meltman. Your primary concern should be the pump, then the waterblock.

Acroam · 07-03-2002, 03:22 PM

ok, update, I re-installed the block, and it feels fairly warm after running on my cpu and my temps were still in the area of 129-131F at idle. I then ran it without the heater core, and it was the same temps. It didnt go down or up. I have a feeling it is the block and pump. But what i dont get is that I read that article from UnaClocker, and he made it sound like it was amazing! he said he had it installed on a 1600 and it works "GREAT", not really that great in my humble opinion

. Can you guys give me an idea of a decent block and pump that would work better than this? I appreciate all the help!!

Cyco-Dude · 07-03-2002, 03:33 PM

wait....you ran it WITHOUT a radiator?? lol, please read the watercooling section of PC's cooling tech explained article. the system requires a radiator.

now this has been brought up befor, but AIR in the system (waterblock or radiator specifically) will drastically reduce the systems ability to cool. any air in the radiator (since you said you removed it from the system already) is bad, so PLEASE make sure you bleed the system of air. grab the radiator and move it around, shake it, whatever so theres absolutley no air in there. or you can set the system on its side while its running and that should help (just make sure your res is watertight, or else hold it so its upright when the system is on its side).

also, how are you measuring the temps??? are you using a separate probe, or the in-socket thermistor, or...?
also, take all idle and full-load temps from within windows, not the BIOS.

speaking of full-load temps, what are they?? have you tested for that yet?

MeltMan · 07-03-2002, 03:34 PM

You still havnt answered any of my questions...

1. Is the heatercore used?

2. Have you put it into a test loop to see if you are getting ANY flow at all?

Your waterblock shouldnt warm up at all, or at least very little. I think your flow sucks big and you arent moving the water through the loop.

Take the heatercore and blow through it. Can you? Same with the block. Something is obstructing your water path.

Acroam · 07-03-2002, 03:37 PM

ok, its a submersible pump, not inline, and i ran it through to make sure there was no air bubbles at all. I am using Vcool as a temperature readout, without all the idle loops and extras, just plain temperature readouts. I ran a few games and it was about 136-138 after playing them for about 30 min.

MeltMan= For the answers about the heater core, the heater core is used. The water flows through it at the same rate as it does without the heater core hooked up. I think its probably the pump and the block. I can blow through both the block and the heatercore as well.

bigben2k · 07-03-2002, 03:47 PM

The pump would be the culprit. Lapping the block might help some, but probably very little.

I don't believe that the CPU block is at fault because it's aluminium. In Alu vs Cu (copper), the difference is there, but it shouldn't be that far off.

I think that the WB design is also a big factor, and that the only way to compensate for those two limitations, would be with an increase in flow, which in this case, obviously can't be had with this pump.

I think that the pump should be the first concern.

Recommendations: get another pump. Check out your local pet store, but lookup the "pump roundup thread" first:http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/sho...&threadid=3650
[edit] off-hand, I'd go with a maxijet or a Danner (with mod), if price is an issue.

Guys, there's something that we've ignored here: it's an aluminium waterblock, and a (copper?) heatercore. I know that we're only at the testing stage, and that no additives have been added, but that's going to have to be addressed.

Acroam · 07-03-2002, 03:52 PM

its an aluminum heater core, i will definitely check out the pumps roundup section. I also added some purple ice additive from becooling.com, they also have a special on a 370 gph pump for 22.00 or something like that, would that be good enough? or do I need something a little bigger?

bigben2k · 07-03-2002, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Acroam
its an aluminum heater core, i will definitely check out the pumps roundup section. I also added some purple ice additive from becooling.com, they also have a special on a 370 gph pump for 22.00 or something like that, would that be good enough? or do I need something a little bigger?

More is always better, but that should fix you right up. Do you have a link? I can't find it.

Acroam · 07-03-2002, 04:45 PM

here is the link for the 370 gph pump, that should fix the problem with the high temperatures do you think? but that pump has 1/2" barbs on it, my waterblock is 3/8", how do i convert it??

bigben2k · 07-03-2002, 04:57 PM

With an adapter! All you have to do is go to your favorite place in the whole wide world: the hardware store!

Via Aqua 1300. Hum... It'll do. If you can though, I'd spend a bit more on something like this:
http://www.graystonecreations.com/riotable.htm
Plus, if you mention this site, you get 10% off:
http://www.procooling.com/worklog/1/...ws.cgi?newsall
(look for the heading: "Email from John - 10% discount on pumps!")

Acroam · 07-03-2002, 05:05 PM

would you reccomend the rio1400, which is 420 GPH for 24.99 or the rio1700, which is 642 GPH and is 29.99? would the 1700 be more than i would need? also, I think i would need a better waterblock, maybe a copper one, like a maze? can you reccomend one with a really good price??

bigben2k · 07-03-2002, 05:06 PM

In short:

Rio 1100
$19.99
382 gph@0
max head 8 ft.
3/4 fittings

OR

Rio 2100
$34.99
692 gph@0
max head 10ft.
3/4 fittings

(I don't know how noisy any of these are though)

bigben2k · 07-03-2002, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Acroam
would you reccomend the rio1400, which is 420 GPH for 24.99 or the rio1700, which is 642 GPH and is 29.99? would the 1700 be more than i would need? also, I think i would need a better waterblock, maybe a copper one, like a maze? can you reccomend one with a really good price??

Between those 2, I'd go with the 1700, definitely.

Acroam · 07-03-2002, 05:16 PM

I will probably go with the Rio1700 then, its seems like a good upgrade from the Rio180. But i need to find a good waterblock now that isnt that $$! Any ideas?

bigben2k · 07-03-2002, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Acroam
also, I think i would need a better waterblock, maybe a copper one, like a maze? can you reccomend one with a really good price??

Well, you need to take a step back here...

I want to recomend a TC-4 waterblock, but then we're back to the pump selection again.

What do you want to do?Do you want to try a bigger pump first, then if the performance is still bad, you'll upgrade the WB?

Acroam · 07-03-2002, 05:19 PM

I guess upgrading the pump first would be best, but from the size of the waterblock, being small, check it out , it might not be the best, as opposed to a decent copper one.

bigben2k · 07-03-2002, 05:22 PM

I wouldn't put out the Alu block just yet, if I was you.

It says (in your link) to lap it. Did you get around to that?

Acroam · 07-03-2002, 05:25 PM

no, ive never lapped a heatsink, and i read that it could be more harmful to the processor if i lap it. In UnaClocker's article, he says about how a more powerful pump might hinder the performance of the WB

RickCain · 07-03-2002, 06:09 PM

BLOCK
BLOCK
BLOCK
BLOCK
BLOCK
BLOCK
BLOCK

Oh yeah.. get the TC-4 or wait for the Spir@l!!!!!

How can that tiny Alm block cool anything hotter than a PII233? I bet 49.99 that simply replacing the block helps a TON.

Acroam · 07-03-2002, 06:24 PM

ok, thanks everyone for posting and helping me out so much!!! I am going to buy a new pump and waterblock!! Lets CLOSE this post! I will post again in a week or so, after I order and hopefully recieve my new equipment!! Thanks again, you all were a great help!!

Cyco-Dude · 07-03-2002, 09:31 PM

....600 GPH?? lol, talk about overkill. 250-350 will be more than enough. you might also want to change to 1/2" ID tubing. and are you sure the rad is aluminum? most, if not all, heater cores are copper / brass.

bigben2k · 07-04-2002, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cyco-Dude
....600 GPH?? lol, talk about overkill. 250-350 will be more than enough. you might also want to change to 1/2" ID tubing. and are you sure the rad is aluminum? most, if not all, heater cores are copper / brass.

Overkill, yes, but we're trying to compensate for the poor performance of the block here. This could be a good lesson: an Alu block for $15-$20 and a pump for $25 might turn out to be almost as good as an Eheim 1048 $60 and a Maze 3 $45.

Also, keep in mind that a 600gph pump won't get you an effective flow that's anywhere near that, especially the Rio, because they have a small head, compared to a lot of other pumps. I think he'd be lucky to get above 100 gph effective, but that's what we're shooting for here.

The 1/2 in. would be a good upgrade.

I also suspect that the HC is copper inside.

I have to say something here about what started all this: Unaclocker's article.

Una started this by putting this article together. Is it good? Well, he might have emphasized the need for lapping that Alu block, and state clearly what kind of results one can expect, but he didn't. I believe that this setup can work, that spending an extra $10-$20 on a more powerful pump would have made a big difference, but all in all, the purpose of it is to get someone to be watercooled, not to give anyone the ability to get into some serious overclocking or anything like that, for a relatively low price.

As most of us know, Una is not here anymore.

bigben2k · 07-04-2002, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Acroam
I will probably go with the Rio1700 then, its seems like a good upgrade from the Rio180.

Has anyone here had any experience with a big Rio like that? How about noise?

07-03-2002, 02:50 PM	#26
MeltMan Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: KS Posts: 374	Hey hey hey, dont give up yet. Its a DAY old. You need to take a deep breath and find where your weakness lies. I think your weakness may be that weak waterblock on the computer. If you think you are going to try pelts, the only way you will get good results is to watercool the pelt. You're stuck watercooling either way to get good results. Your pump is very weak, and your waterblock is el-cheapo. I think these are your weaknesses. Tubing size will not make much difference at all. Was the heatercore NEW? It is most likely not your weakness. Heatercores are great cheap rads. A rio180 is a very underpowered pump. Are you getting any flow at all? Have you done a test loop to see your flow after the rad? The waterblock should be effective, but only with sufficient flow. It is aluminum, so give it a break. Take your hand and feel the waterblock. Is it warm? If it is, you are having low to no flow. If it is cool, then there is an interface problem between it and the chip. Do these things, and post again. __________________ MeltMan Lurker Supreme! Last edited by MeltMan; 07-03-2002 at 02:55 PM.

07-03-2002, 03:13 PM	#27
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Yur giving up pretty quickly, aren't you? Reading over everything, it looks like your heater core might need cleaning. I wouldn't have picked up a used one myself. They're cheap enough, at $20, to get a new one, and they are the best rads you can get, but hey, you have to go with what you have. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

07-03-2002, 03:16 PM	#28
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	I agree with Meltman. Your primary concern should be the pump, then the waterblock. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

07-03-2002, 03:22 PM	#29
Acroam Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Somewhere Posts: 85	ok, update, I re-installed the block, and it feels fairly warm after running on my cpu and my temps were still in the area of 129-131F at idle. I then ran it without the heater core, and it was the same temps. It didnt go down or up. I have a feeling it is the block and pump. But what i dont get is that I read that article from UnaClocker, and he made it sound like it was amazing! he said he had it installed on a 1600 and it works "GREAT", not really that great in my humble opinion. Can you guys give me an idea of a decent block and pump that would work better than this? I appreciate all the help!!

07-03-2002, 03:34 PM	#31
MeltMan Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: KS Posts: 374	You still havnt answered any of my questions... 1. Is the heatercore used? 2. Have you put it into a test loop to see if you are getting ANY flow at all? Your waterblock shouldnt warm up at all, or at least very little. I think your flow sucks big and you arent moving the water through the loop. Take the heatercore and blow through it. Can you? Same with the block. Something is obstructing your water path. __________________ MeltMan Lurker Supreme!

07-03-2002, 03:33 PM	#30
Cyco-Dude Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dayton, Ohio Posts: 836	wait....you ran it WITHOUT a radiator?? lol, please read the watercooling section of PC's cooling tech explained article. the system requires a radiator. now this has been brought up befor, but AIR in the system (waterblock or radiator specifically) will drastically reduce the systems ability to cool. any air in the radiator (since you said you removed it from the system already) is bad, so PLEASE make sure you bleed the system of air. grab the radiator and move it around, shake it, whatever so theres absolutley no air in there. or you can set the system on its side while its running and that should help (just make sure your res is watertight, or else hold it so its upright when the system is on its side). also, how are you measuring the temps??? are you using a separate probe, or the in-socket thermistor, or...? also, take all idle and full-load temps from within windows, not the BIOS. speaking of full-load temps, what are they?? have you tested for that yet?

07-03-2002, 03:37 PM	#32
Acroam Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Somewhere Posts: 85	ok, its a submersible pump, not inline, and i ran it through to make sure there was no air bubbles at all. I am using Vcool as a temperature readout, without all the idle loops and extras, just plain temperature readouts. I ran a few games and it was about 136-138 after playing them for about 30 min. MeltMan= For the answers about the heater core, the heater core is used. The water flows through it at the same rate as it does without the heater core hooked up. I think its probably the pump and the block. I can blow through both the block and the heatercore as well. Last edited by Acroam; 07-03-2002 at 03:40 PM.

07-03-2002, 03:47 PM	#33
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	The pump would be the culprit. Lapping the block might help some, but probably very little. I don't believe that the CPU block is at fault because it's aluminium. In Alu vs Cu (copper), the difference is there, but it shouldn't be that far off. I think that the WB design is also a big factor, and that the only way to compensate for those two limitations, would be with an increase in flow, which in this case, obviously can't be had with this pump. I think that the pump should be the first concern. Recommendations: get another pump. Check out your local pet store, but lookup the "pump roundup thread" first:http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/sho...&threadid=3650 [edit] off-hand, I'd go with a maxijet or a Danner (with mod), if price is an issue. Guys, there's something that we've ignored here: it's an aluminium waterblock, and a (copper?) heatercore. I know that we're only at the testing stage, and that no additives have been added, but that's going to have to be addressed. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101 Last edited by bigben2k; 07-03-2002 at 03:50 PM.

07-03-2002, 03:52 PM	#34
Acroam Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Somewhere Posts: 85	its an aluminum heater core, i will definitely check out the pumps roundup section. I also added some purple ice additive from becooling.com, they also have a special on a 370 gph pump for 22.00 or something like that, would that be good enough? or do I need something a little bigger?

07-03-2002, 04:45 PM	#36
Acroam Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Somewhere Posts: 85	here is the link for the 370 gph pump, that should fix the problem with the high temperatures do you think? but that pump has 1/2" barbs on it, my waterblock is 3/8", how do i convert it??

07-03-2002, 04:57 PM	#37
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	With an adapter! All you have to do is go to your favorite place in the whole wide world: the hardware store! Via Aqua 1300. Hum... It'll do. If you can though, I'd spend a bit more on something like this: http://www.graystonecreations.com/riotable.htm Plus, if you mention this site, you get 10% off: http://www.procooling.com/worklog/1/...ws.cgi?newsall (look for the heading: "Email from John - 10% discount on pumps!") __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

07-03-2002, 05:05 PM	#38
Acroam Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Somewhere Posts: 85	would you reccomend the rio1400, which is 420 GPH for 24.99 or the rio1700, which is 642 GPH and is 29.99? would the 1700 be more than i would need? also, I think i would need a better waterblock, maybe a copper one, like a maze? can you reccomend one with a really good price??

07-03-2002, 05:06 PM	#39
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	In short: Rio 1100 $19.99 382 gph@0 max head 8 ft. 3/4 fittings OR Rio 2100 $34.99 692 gph@0 max head 10ft. 3/4 fittings (I don't know how noisy any of these are though) __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

07-03-2002, 05:16 PM	#41
Acroam Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Somewhere Posts: 85	I will probably go with the Rio1700 then, its seems like a good upgrade from the Rio180. But i need to find a good waterblock now that isnt that $$! Any ideas?

07-03-2002, 05:19 PM	#43
Acroam Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Somewhere Posts: 85	I guess upgrading the pump first would be best, but from the size of the waterblock, being small, check it out , it might not be the best, as opposed to a decent copper one.

07-03-2002, 05:22 PM	#44
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	I wouldn't put out the Alu block just yet, if I was you. It says (in your link) to lap it. Did you get around to that? __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

07-03-2002, 05:25 PM	#45
Acroam Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Somewhere Posts: 85	no, ive never lapped a heatsink, and i read that it could be more harmful to the processor if i lap it. In UnaClocker's article, he says about how a more powerful pump might hinder the performance of the WB

07-03-2002, 06:09 PM	#46
RickCain Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 110	BLOCK BLOCK BLOCK BLOCK BLOCK BLOCK BLOCK Oh yeah.. get the TC-4 or wait for the Spir@l!!!!! How can that tiny Alm block cool anything hotter than a PII233? I bet 49.99 that simply replacing the block helps a TON.

07-03-2002, 06:24 PM	#47
Acroam Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Somewhere Posts: 85	ok, thanks everyone for posting and helping me out so much!!! I am going to buy a new pump and waterblock!! Lets CLOSE this post! I will post again in a week or so, after I order and hopefully recieve my new equipment!! Thanks again, you all were a great help!!

07-03-2002, 09:31 PM	#48
Cyco-Dude Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dayton, Ohio Posts: 836	....600 GPH?? lol, talk about overkill. 250-350 will be more than enough. you might also want to change to 1/2" ID tubing. and are you sure the rad is aluminum? most, if not all, heater cores are copper / brass.

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