cheaper alternative to water wetter for killing bugs w/out a decrease in performance?

[Brians256]

Thanks for reading the article, icel0rd. I hope it was useful!

I agree about using antifreeze with silicone tubing. If you don't mind the performance hit, most antifreeze products are very well designed to prevent corrosion and they do help reduce biologicals because they are mildly alkaline.

Make sure to get a decent antifreeze though. The really cheap versions skimp on some of the anticorrosion additives such as dissolved silicates and the alkaline buffers.

[icel0rd]

Thanks for the details Brian. That article rocked.

I suppose that I can run my circuit for longer periods of time safely if I was able to add one of those biocides as long as it didn't react negatively with the deionized water-antifreeze mixture.

I guess it's time to look into those additives a little more closely.

btw, I was using Prestone antifreeze. It seems to do fairly well in my circuit, but I always strive to do better if I can


Thanks again

Ice

[utabintarbo]

Speaking of surfactants, what about liquid laundry detergent? It doesn't foam (nearly as much)! Will this work?

Enquiring minds want to know!

Bob

[Brians256]

Laundry detergent isn't a soap, that's why! Detergents work to break down oils and other biological components to the "dirt" in your clothing. They make the dirt easier to get out. Soaps are surfactants that reduce surface tension. Detergents will do nothing to help your coolant other than a possible slight biocide effect.

[Puzzdre]

just a few more words on
Erythromycin: Pharmacology


'Erythromycin can be considered the prototype of macrolide antibiotics. These drugs inhibit the ribosomal protein synthesis in bacteria and thus have a bacteriostatic and bactericidal effect. Erythromycin has a similar action spectrum as penicillin and includes in particular many Gram-positive bacteria; staphylococci are often resistant. Among the Gram-negative agents Bordetella pertussis and Legionella pneumophila deserve to be mentioned especially. Like the tetracyclines, erythromycin is also active against bacteria-like organisms (Chlamydia trachomatis, Mycoplasma pneumoniae, Ureaplasma urealyticum). '


so, it can kill bacteria but I'm not sure for algae...

second, one site said for Erythromycin: 'The base is white to off-white crystals or powder slightly soluble in water, soluble in alcohol, in chloroform, and in ether.'

as I see it, one can use any antibiotic handy and put it into the wc system to kill bacteria. Still not sure about the algae.

[Puzzdre]

something more about algae, it seems that erythromycin phosphate (should be available in pet shops) is algae killer too.

look at
http://faq.thekrib.com/algae.html

[bigben2k]

I don't know about this erythromycin stuff... It seems like it would kill some algae, but not all.

At this point, I'm considering hooking up my aquarium filter to a res!

[utabintarbo]

Originally posted by Brians256
Laundry detergent isn't a soap, that's why! Detergents work to break down oils and other biological components to the "dirt" in your clothing. They make the dirt easier to get out. Soaps are surfactants that reduce surface tension. Detergents will do nothing to help your coolant other than a possible slight biocide effect.

Weeelllll! I didn't know we had a detergent expert here!

Well, that shoot down my bright idea for the day. Back tomorrow with another!

Bob

[bigben2k]

Actually I proposed the idea some time back, but I guess no one cared to test it.

You know, UV lights are used to sterilize ponds and such, why hasn't this ever been discussed?

[Brians256]

Detergent expert? Not even close! However, my father worked for Fridgidaire (as a service manager for the northwest block of US states) for about ten years and he learned about more than just refrigerators.

UV lights have been discussed before, I thought. I just didn't think they were practical. Too much power, and too much danger. UV-C (the type of UV that will actually kill bacteria) is also dangerous to people.

[Skulemate]

Not that anyone's going to use it, but I still want to point out that using a fluid that heavier than water will have an impact on a pumps performance, even if you disregard differing viscosities. The reason is that a column of mercury is going to create (if memory serves) 13.55 times more pressure than a column of water the exact same height... that's why it's often used as a manometer fluid, since you don't need redicuously high tubes in order to work with higher pressures. My pump manufacturer specifically states not to pump any fluid with a specific gravity of more than 1.1 to boot.

[bigben2k]

Originally posted by Skulemate
Not that anyone's going to use it, but I still want to point out that using a fluid that heavier than water will have an impact on a pumps performance, even if you disregard differing viscosities. The reason is that a column of mercury is going to create (if memory serves) 13.55 times more pressure than a column of water the exact same height... that's why it's often used as a manometer fluid, since you don't need redicuously high tubes in order to work with higher pressures. My pump manufacturer specifically states not to pump any fluid with a specific gravity of more than 1.1 to boot.

Using mercury, which is still extremely toxic, should work well for centrifugal pumps, not any other type of pumps. Centrifugals are great, in that they don't depend on the density, where other pumps may be affected.

As for the column/gravity thing, it doesn't apply if the loop is closed.

What is Skule anyways?

[gmat]

Originally posted by bigben2k
Actually I proposed the idea some time back, but I guess no one cared to test it.

You know, UV lights are used to sterilize ponds and such, why hasn't this ever been discussed?

(sarcasm mode)
Yeah, we could also use gamma rays to kill life forms in our PCs
(/sarcasm mode)
BB2K, the use of nuclear radiation / hard radiation / toxic waste stuff in a home device is left to your own personal experiments. Just let us know *before* so we can send the story to Darwin Awards

[bigben2k]

Originally posted by gmat
BB2K, the use of nuclear radiation / hard radiation / toxic waste stuff in a home device is left to your own personal experiments. Just let us know *before* so we can send the story to Darwin Awards

Hey, now there's an idea! How about a neutron field? Just add a particle accelerator to your PCs' cooling loop! Woot!

Seriously, the UV pond units are sealed within a tube.

[Skulemate]

You're right Ben that once you get a siphon you'll be fine, but having the pump push the mercury in the first place could be a challenge (I surely would not suck the stuff through if it wasn't beefy enough ). Still though, specific gravity is still of a concern... my pump is rated to 1.1, and I bet Eheims aren't much better (wheras mercury is 13.55).

Skule? That's a Toronto Engineering joke... along the same lines as our Lady Godiva Memorial Bnad. I guess this classic quote says it best:

Tree yeers a-go I couldn't spell engenear... now I are one.

[natopotato]

Originally posted by bigben2k
I don't know about this erythromycin stuff... It seems like it would kill some algae, but not all.

trust me ben this stuff if it is at a high enough concentration will kill most all of the algae.

Puzzdre, i wouldn't trust any antibiotic to do this. penicillin won't cut it. erythromycin is by far the most potent, cheap, widely availible antibiotic for this purpose. i've run it in my loop for quite some time and nothing bad has happened that i've noticed. if you use tygon or equililent hose(in terms of not absorbing additives) you should only have to add in another capsule worth once every couple months maybe depending on the rest of your coolant solution.

[V12|V12]

Wait, I've got probably the most unknown stuff for keeping the "white-coats" away, you know that whitish-milky looking stuff that coats the your tubes? I recently added about 2 capfulls of [b]Lemon Scented Lysol [b] to 300ml of 1:8 H2o-Antifreeze and to this day, my tubes are CLEAR as can be, smells with hints of lemon in my res and there are no foamy/soap-like bubbles at all... it works great, try it!@

[Puzzdre]

Originally posted by natopotato


i wouldn't trust any antibiotic to do this.

thanx for the info!

experience is what counts

[bigben2k]

Originally posted by V12|V12
[b]Wait, I've got probably the most unknown stuff for keeping the "white-coats" away, you know that whitish-milky looking stuff that coats the your tubes? I recently added about 2 capfulls of [b]Lemon Scented Lysol to 300ml of 1:8 H2o-Antifreeze and to this day, my tubes are CLEAR as can be, smells with hints of lemon in my res and there are no foamy/soap-like bubbles at all... it works great, try it!@

Good one! I'll have to try it in distilled water only.

[airspirit]

Wouldn't soap foam like a mutha in your res/air trap? I'm having flashbacks of the time I filled a washer with a 48 load box of detergent and ran like hell.

Lemon Lysol ... that actually sounds pretty frickin' cool. Isn't that just a derivative (with n33+ smelling stuff) of ammonia?

Oh, and erythomycin will not kill everything. It'll kill most everything, but not all of the stuff that you'll want to keep out. But, looking on the bright side, your radiator will never get a yeast infection.

[V12|V12]

Like I said, I've been running this setup for about a month or 2 constantly and my flow rate is above 350GPH and I've seen no bubbles what so ever, no "white-coats," nor any reduction in water cooling efficiency... And it smells nice too if you have a bong or something like that! Remember to PLEASE have ANTI-FREEZE in there, cause I don't know what would happen with out it... Probably create a more basic-solution which doesn't attack metals as violently as slight acids tend to do... Plus Anti-freeze (green stuff) has lots of inhibitors in it, so plain distilled water might have diff effects but I'm doubting it... The Lysol is pretty harmless (just an ammonia derivative) and I added a very sparing amount.

LEMONS TO YA!

[redleader]

Antiboitics probably aren't going to do much for fungus, which would probably be an issue as well in warm, damp places.

[mo]

When we say antifreeze in the coolant is that synonymous with propylene glycol?

[Brians256]

Antifreeze is a name for a bunch of different chemicals. It is primarily ethylene glycol or propylene glycol, but it includes a number of other things. Propylene glycol is a less toxic alternative to ethylene glycol.

[Sherlock]

Friends, detergents are surfactants...as is soap. They are surfactants(surface acting agents) in that they interfere with the hygrogen bonding that occurs within water which is from where suface tension comes. Using detergents in reservoirs will increase performance of heat transfer undoubtably. One does not need use even a drop(depending on which detergent), as foaming will cause less heat transfer than the benefits gained from reduced surface tension.
Personally I use purple ice (be-cooling) and if you're concerned about dyes then use high quality tygon tubing which is impervious to dye leaching.

-Sherlock