Just say no... - Page 2

bigben2k · 01-27-2003, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hara
...On another note, sometimes the more discipline is forced on a person, the more he would try to rebel against it.

In this environment, there's no room for rebellion: if you're caught swearing, the police will actually give you a ticket!

bigben2k · 01-27-2003, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hara
I find it strange that I'm discussing these things on a site called "ProCooling". Don't get me wrong Joe

That's why it's in "Random Nonsense"

airspirit · 01-29-2003, 04:58 PM

If a police officer gave me a ticket for swearing, or to any of my children, I'd give them a dose of US Navy regulation cursing that would make their ears bleed, and contact my representatives for gross misconduct. That is, of course, assuming that there is no law in your area prohibiting cursing in public. Schools can NOT institute laws in any state of the union under ANY circumstances, and can NOT prohibit any conduct unless it is directly detrimental to a learning environment, or is creating a hostile environment (per federal law). Screeching GODDAMMIT!!! after slamming your hand in a locker or some such nonsense does NOT fall into any of those categories and ticketing such conduct is ILLEGAL and should be challenged at the earliest possible opportunity. Now, if the student stands up in class and calls his or her teacher a "Poxy pus infected @ss-wh0re", that is a different matter all together because it is contrary to a learning environment.

The sad reality, though, is that the rent-a-cops that work at such schools normally have no clue about what really is going on. In my hometown's reject mill, you'd be convinced it is a good school environment if you just got a cursory look at it. You'd be suprised how many of those kids are doped up, planning criminal activity for the evening, planning copulation activity for the afterhours, and being institutionalized and prepared for a career in prison. The one in my hometown started providing condoms to the students (like dealers push crack) recently when they discovered on a survey that nearly every one of them had at LEAST one STD, most had multiple. The thin sugar-coating and good intentions of the staff do not make up for the reality of most of those schools, and the staff don't find out about 5% of the ruckus that is really going on.

If I were you, I'd pray for school vouchers and remember the whispered motto of the alternative school in my hometown: "It's all fun and games until someone gets a wiener in the butt." Don't leave your daughter there, or she will suffer. That isn't speculation. She'd be better off getting an education from PBS, MTV, and her local branch offices (dat be mah ho's crib, yo) of the Crips and Bloods.

bigben2k · 01-30-2003, 06:59 AM

Actually, he's not a rent-a-cop, he's a full fledge police officer. He's been assigned to the school district, and appears to be doing a good job. If he was out-of-touch, my stepdaughter would be in jail right now.

Having met the director of the school, as well as the teachers, I'm confident that they will apply whatever means they have within reason. When they first told us about the ticket, it was clear to me that it was meant, first and foremost, as a scare tactic, to straighten up the kids. As far as I can figure, they must have some kind of leverage, in order to deal with the most difficult kids.

I had a chance to talk with my stepdaughter last night, and although she says that "it's boring" over there, no one is treating her unfairly, and everyone seems to be acting right. Well, except for this one kid... who opted to return a pocket knife to another fellow student, so everyone was searched.

What are "school vouchers"?

Given the small class sizes, and how each student works alone on their own thing, so far, I'm not dissapointed. Concerned yes, but not dissapointed.

My wife and I have decided to alter our work schedule, so that we can get home around the same time that the kids do. Now I've never been a morning person, but I suppose I'll eventually get used to getting up at 4h30 in the morning... (do we have a smilie for :Yawn:?)

DarkEdge · 01-30-2003, 08:49 AM

BigBen, get her out of that school ASAP. My sister has gone down that road, and since she started an alternative learning program, just like your stepdaughter, its been nothing but BS courses, and more drug problems. She has gone from getting caught with them, to using, to dealing. I had to pick her punk ass up outta jail last week. I was going to leave her but my mother made me go with her to pick her up. They might have the chance to do anything while they work, but kids always find a way, and believe me, kids will fall down again given the chance.

Atleast this is what I've seen through my dumbass sister.

airspirit · 01-30-2003, 09:40 AM

School vouchers are the program that the Republicans have been pushing for years, and very well may pass. It gives you the option of pulling your kid from public schooling, and the state will give a portion of the money that would have been used to pay for her public schooling to you so you can use it for private school tuition. It is a crock in some ways that the $5-10K per student translates into $3-6K in vouchers, but it goes a long way toward covering private school tuition.

Democrats don't like it because they think it will cause segregation and would harm the public schools due to lower funding. I think that it is good: the public schools don't deserve to waste any more tax dollars ... especially for students that aren't attending class there. Further, I haven't encountered any more segregation in private schools than public. I think they are afraid that if the program was effective, it would show how pathetic their education policies really are. You can't just throw money into a fire and expect students to do better.

airspirit · 01-30-2003, 09:41 AM

In fact, I think Texas may currently have a voucher program ... look into it.

bigben2k · 01-30-2003, 10:47 AM

As usual, it's hard to get that info, but the wife and I will check out a chistian school: we've got an appointment Friday next week.

Yo-DUH_87 · 01-31-2003, 10:37 AM

Kids do stupid things, but the last thing that they should be doing is having a bad attitude about the whole matter.

Those vouchers, where could I get more information on them? Would they be applicable to Home Schooled students?

golovko · 01-31-2003, 01:06 PM

bb2k. as far as the catholic school thing goes, i wouldnt recommend you go through with that. now im not a parent, im only 20 yrs old and a college student. but i can tell you what ive seen from my perspective, and that is that kids that are sent to catholic schools just learn how to get by with stuff more cleverly. my girlfriend went to a catholic girls school, and i can tell you the girls that were sent there for disciplinary reasons just got more clever at getting away with whatever it was they were sent there for. now of course this doesnt hold up for every kid, but im just telling you what ive seen. i think a lot of parents think they can send their kid off to a catholic school and let them deal with discipline instead of themselves (im not accusing you of this of course), and i think thats a bad idea. discipline is something the parents should be responsible for. you have to motivate her to want to stay away from things such as drugs, how to go about that is up to you.

bigben2k · 01-31-2003, 01:23 PM

Thanks Golovko.

My wife and I took her up to a counsellor yesterday, and her assesment is: "She's in complete denial, over what happened". So we've (actually my wife) made arrangements for her to see this counsellor every other week.

I think that my stepdaughter understands most of "what's bad", but clearly doesn't have the understanding of "making the right choice".

As I was explaining it to my wife this morning, acting emotionally is a privilege that one has to earn for themselves. It comes from knowing what's wrong and what's right, but more importantly, knowing that we will make the right decision, when faced with a choice. My stepdaughter isn't there yet.

In the meantime, she's going to have to a) trust that mom/dad/stepdad is in the position to tell her what to do, and accept it (instead of trying to butt heads all the time) and b) get into the habit of "stop and think".

In scientific terms, that's called self-discipline. In religious terms, it's called "carrying God in your heart" or "living with the Holy Spirit".

If she keeps making the choice to live within the edge of the law, she will slip and fail (as we all do, it's human), but if she holds herself up to a higher standard (i.e. God), then not only does she not have to worry about breaking a law (because some of God's values are represented in the laws), but when she slips, it won't be anything as bad as what happened, and she can simply ask Him for forgiveness, and try not to do it again!

So christian schools can be good, if they understand and apply the above. As a parent, we can only influence her environment, especially at the age she is: 15.

I can however, remind her what her choices are... (big speech coming up this weekend, I hope!)

Well, that's my take on it... Opinions?

airspirit · 01-31-2003, 03:28 PM

School vouchers are cashed in by the school. You can't use them to pay yourself for homeschooling. Sorry.

01-29-2003, 04:58 PM	#28
airspirit Been /.'d... have you? Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,986	If a police officer gave me a ticket for swearing, or to any of my children, I'd give them a dose of US Navy regulation cursing that would make their ears bleed, and contact my representatives for gross misconduct. That is, of course, assuming that there is no law in your area prohibiting cursing in public. Schools can NOT institute laws in any state of the union under ANY circumstances, and can NOT prohibit any conduct unless it is directly detrimental to a learning environment, or is creating a hostile environment (per federal law). Screeching GODDAMMIT!!! after slamming your hand in a locker or some such nonsense does NOT fall into any of those categories and ticketing such conduct is ILLEGAL and should be challenged at the earliest possible opportunity. Now, if the student stands up in class and calls his or her teacher a "Poxy pus infected @ss-wh0re", that is a different matter all together because it is contrary to a learning environment. The sad reality, though, is that the rent-a-cops that work at such schools normally have no clue about what really is going on. In my hometown's reject mill, you'd be convinced it is a good school environment if you just got a cursory look at it. You'd be suprised how many of those kids are doped up, planning criminal activity for the evening, planning copulation activity for the afterhours, and being institutionalized and prepared for a career in prison. The one in my hometown started providing condoms to the students (like dealers push crack) recently when they discovered on a survey that nearly every one of them had at LEAST one STD, most had multiple. The thin sugar-coating and good intentions of the staff do not make up for the reality of most of those schools, and the staff don't find out about 5% of the ruckus that is really going on. If I were you, I'd pray for school vouchers and remember the whispered motto of the alternative school in my hometown: "It's all fun and games until someone gets a wiener in the butt." Don't leave your daughter there, or she will suffer. That isn't speculation. She'd be better off getting an education from PBS, MTV, and her local branch offices (dat be mah ho's crib, yo) of the Crips and Bloods. __________________ #!/bin/sh {who;} {last;} {pause;} {grep;} {touch;} {unzip;} mount /dev/girl -t {wet;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} echo yes yes yes {yes;} umount {/dev/girl;zip;} rm -rf {wet.spot;} {sleep;} finger: permission denied

01-30-2003, 06:59 AM	#29
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Actually, he's not a rent-a-cop, he's a full fledge police officer. He's been assigned to the school district, and appears to be doing a good job. If he was out-of-touch, my stepdaughter would be in jail right now. Having met the director of the school, as well as the teachers, I'm confident that they will apply whatever means they have within reason. When they first told us about the ticket, it was clear to me that it was meant, first and foremost, as a scare tactic, to straighten up the kids. As far as I can figure, they must have some kind of leverage, in order to deal with the most difficult kids. I had a chance to talk with my stepdaughter last night, and although she says that "it's boring" over there, no one is treating her unfairly, and everyone seems to be acting right. Well, except for this one kid... who opted to return a pocket knife to another fellow student, so everyone was searched. What are "school vouchers"? Given the small class sizes, and how each student works alone on their own thing, so far, I'm not dissapointed. Concerned yes, but not dissapointed. My wife and I have decided to alter our work schedule, so that we can get home around the same time that the kids do. Now I've never been a morning person, but I suppose I'll eventually get used to getting up at 4h30 in the morning... (do we have a smilie for :Yawn:?) __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

01-30-2003, 08:49 AM	#30
DarkEdge Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Sugar Land, Tx Posts: 176	BigBen, get her out of that school ASAP. My sister has gone down that road, and since she started an alternative learning program, just like your stepdaughter, its been nothing but BS courses, and more drug problems. She has gone from getting caught with them, to using, to dealing. I had to pick her punk ass up outta jail last week. I was going to leave her but my mother made me go with her to pick her up. They might have the chance to do anything while they work, but kids always find a way, and believe me, kids will fall down again given the chance. Atleast this is what I've seen through my dumbass sister. __________________ Intel p4 2.26@3.0 Abit BD7II-Raid,1gb Corsair 3200 ATI Radeon 9700 3 80gb Seagates 3 40gb Maxtors

01-30-2003, 09:40 AM	#31
airspirit Been /.'d... have you? Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,986	School vouchers are the program that the Republicans have been pushing for years, and very well may pass. It gives you the option of pulling your kid from public schooling, and the state will give a portion of the money that would have been used to pay for her public schooling to you so you can use it for private school tuition. It is a crock in some ways that the $5-10K per student translates into $3-6K in vouchers, but it goes a long way toward covering private school tuition. Democrats don't like it because they think it will cause segregation and would harm the public schools due to lower funding. I think that it is good: the public schools don't deserve to waste any more tax dollars ... especially for students that aren't attending class there. Further, I haven't encountered any more segregation in private schools than public. I think they are afraid that if the program was effective, it would show how pathetic their education policies really are. You can't just throw money into a fire and expect students to do better. __________________ #!/bin/sh {who;} {last;} {pause;} {grep;} {touch;} {unzip;} mount /dev/girl -t {wet;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} echo yes yes yes {yes;} umount {/dev/girl;zip;} rm -rf {wet.spot;} {sleep;} finger: permission denied

01-30-2003, 09:41 AM	#32
airspirit Been /.'d... have you? Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,986	In fact, I think Texas may currently have a voucher program ... look into it. __________________ #!/bin/sh {who;} {last;} {pause;} {grep;} {touch;} {unzip;} mount /dev/girl -t {wet;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} echo yes yes yes {yes;} umount {/dev/girl;zip;} rm -rf {wet.spot;} {sleep;} finger: permission denied

01-30-2003, 10:47 AM	#33
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	As usual, it's hard to get that info, but the wife and I will check out a chistian school: we've got an appointment Friday next week. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

01-31-2003, 10:37 AM	#34
Yo-DUH_87 Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Oregon, USA Posts: 230	Kids do stupid things, but the last thing that they should be doing is having a bad attitude about the whole matter. Those vouchers, where could I get more information on them? Would they be applicable to Home Schooled students? __________________ Signing out... Yo-DUH_87 If it works, fix it until it's broke! Then, after it's broke, add duct tape! Affordable webhosting!

01-31-2003, 01:06 PM	#35
golovko Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Purdue University, USA Posts: 141	bb2k. as far as the catholic school thing goes, i wouldnt recommend you go through with that. now im not a parent, im only 20 yrs old and a college student. but i can tell you what ive seen from my perspective, and that is that kids that are sent to catholic schools just learn how to get by with stuff more cleverly. my girlfriend went to a catholic girls school, and i can tell you the girls that were sent there for disciplinary reasons just got more clever at getting away with whatever it was they were sent there for. now of course this doesnt hold up for every kid, but im just telling you what ive seen. i think a lot of parents think they can send their kid off to a catholic school and let them deal with discipline instead of themselves (im not accusing you of this of course), and i think thats a bad idea. discipline is something the parents should be responsible for. you have to motivate her to want to stay away from things such as drugs, how to go about that is up to you.

01-31-2003, 01:23 PM	#36
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Thanks Golovko. My wife and I took her up to a counsellor yesterday, and her assesment is: "She's in complete denial, over what happened". So we've (actually my wife) made arrangements for her to see this counsellor every other week. I think that my stepdaughter understands most of "what's bad", but clearly doesn't have the understanding of "making the right choice". As I was explaining it to my wife this morning, acting emotionally is a privilege that one has to earn for themselves. It comes from knowing what's wrong and what's right, but more importantly, knowing that we will make the right decision, when faced with a choice. My stepdaughter isn't there yet. In the meantime, she's going to have to a) trust that mom/dad/stepdad is in the position to tell her what to do, and accept it (instead of trying to butt heads all the time) and b) get into the habit of "stop and think". In scientific terms, that's called self-discipline. In religious terms, it's called "carrying God in your heart" or "living with the Holy Spirit". If she keeps making the choice to live within the edge of the law, she will slip and fail (as we all do, it's human), but if she holds herself up to a higher standard (i.e. God), then not only does she not have to worry about breaking a law (because some of God's values are represented in the laws), but when she slips, it won't be anything as bad as what happened, and she can simply ask Him for forgiveness, and try not to do it again! So christian schools can be good, if they understand and apply the above. As a parent, we can only influence her environment, especially at the age she is: 15. I can however, remind her what her choices are... (big speech coming up this weekend, I hope!) Well, that's my take on it... Opinions? __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101 Last edited by bigben2k; 01-31-2003 at 01:28 PM.

01-31-2003, 03:28 PM	#37
airspirit Been /.'d... have you? Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,986	School vouchers are cashed in by the school. You can't use them to pay yourself for homeschooling. Sorry. __________________ #!/bin/sh {who;} {last;} {pause;} {grep;} {touch;} {unzip;} mount /dev/girl -t {wet;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} echo yes yes yes {yes;} umount {/dev/girl;zip;} rm -rf {wet.spot;} {sleep;} finger: permission denied

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