Water block for HDD? - Page 2

Teus · 09-23-2003, 02:34 PM

it's way overkill and only the top centre of the hdd gets cooled

MMZ_TimeLord · 09-23-2003, 02:53 PM

Ahem... that goes on the BOTTOM of the drive... and you can flip it upside down. Hence the mounting holes.

This utilizes the aluminum casing as a heatsink to the copper. The turbulant area is to be centered over the drive motor area.

kibbles · 09-23-2003, 04:32 PM

Consider that a hard drive doesn't put out more that 10 W heat, then a block with a <1.0 C/W over its massive area would suffice, and so nothing complex is in order. Obviously, if it's going to pull double duty, 2 hd's, then by all means beef it up a little. I just wouldn't throw so much copper when some cheapo pipe would do fine. Anyone remember the person who just soldered pipe to his hard drive cage?

MMZ_TimeLord · 09-25-2003, 10:01 AM

To complex huh... not worth it?

Okay... is this better...

Keep in mind you can't use this for two drives UNLESS you drill specialized holes in your drive cage to keep the drives together.

The mounting holes this uses do NOT go all the way through... nor can they be drilled all the way through without distroying the platters.

Got KarmA? · 10-01-2003, 09:34 PM

I just PM'ed rotor about making a hard drive waterblock that I could somehow mount TWO drives onto. Anyone got a clue if this is possible?

BrianW · 10-01-2003, 11:23 PM

Surely is possible if you utilize the side of the hard drive to cool it. The New Seagate SATA drive have huge heatsinks on the sides of them. They obviously realize it is a sufficient cooling method.

Rotor's current blocks cool either the top or the bottom, and allow you to still use you hard drvie cages. One that would work on the sides, would require you to mount it in your 5.25 cage.

BrianW

Got KarmA? · 10-02-2003, 12:52 AM

I still want this to fit into my HD cage, so I won't be cooling the sides.

What I AM thinking is this ... if the rotor blocks are designed for the mounting holes on a typical hard drive ... in order to get it to work with two, one on either side, would be to have the mounting holes pushed back or foward from the first set ... so as not to conflict. Then ... to prevent the screws from interfering with the second mounted drive, the first set would have to be recessed enough to prevent the screws from preventing proper contact with the second drive.

Make sense? I think its a viable solution ... you'd just need two different screw lengths and a few more minutes of extra milling

#Rotor · 10-02-2003, 01:27 AM

in responce to your PM....

the block is exactly the same size as a drive itself, with holes in the same places, so you can mount it where ever a hard-drive can go. in the picture I'm using brackets, but only because my case has no HD cage in it. 2 hard-drives fit perfectly on it. It is expensive though.... that is a big chunk of copper, and a lot of holes..... As for it being overkill.... You BETCHA!!!

like this.....

Hard drives produce there heat very slow.... even the hottest of old Barracudas are more than happy with the faintest of breezes, thus, a cool chunk of copper in close proximity to it, will chill it to perfection, no need for paste or a prefect seat, even the stickers on the drive won't make much of a difference,

MMZ_TimeLord · 10-02-2003, 09:13 AM

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA #Rotor!!!

And they said my design with the #rotor core was overkill ... ROFLMAO!!!!

siavash_s_s · 10-02-2003, 09:24 AM

hmm rotor how did u cut the channels so neat? dremel?

dogbait · 10-02-2003, 11:02 AM

#Rotor, would your design be more efficient (I realize it is overspec'd for its purpose) if it utilised a 'divider', so that the water had to follow a U-shaped path?

As it stands, it seems that there will be less and less flow the farther from the barbs the water travels, and so the area nearest the barbs getting the most cooling.

Do you use some kind of gasket to make it water tight?

#Rotor · 10-02-2003, 05:39 PM

overkill yes, but I think your first design will be a lot easier to make, than the one with the single hole through...

It probably will yes, in later models I did do exactly that...

A Dremel is what I use indeed...I had lotsa practice though...

For sealing it up, Marine Goop.

Got KarmA? · 10-02-2003, 06:27 PM

Hmm ... nice block, I was hoping to get a good look at the internals ...

I have one concern though ... the waterblock may not be any larger than a hard drive, and hence fit in the drive cage, BUT those connectors you use to get the second hard drive on there will be.

what to do?

MMZ_TimeLord · 10-04-2003, 12:10 AM

#Rotor,

I decided to make the one I thought was easier.

For me it was. I only had to solder the copper pipes to the block and it works fine.

If I had done the first version I designed, I'd still be making it.

Picture for yah...

I've got it screwed to the drive pictured, but it will have another drive clamped to it I think as I have two.

#Rotor · 10-04-2003, 08:13 AM

looks purdy...

those little brackets, would not be required, if the HD cage is to be used,... the drives and block can just all be neatly held in place by the cage itself, correct?

Got KarmA? · 10-04-2003, 10:25 AM

hmmm .. I suppose if you have a spring on one side pushing against the other or something.

but I was hoping for something a little less ghetto

ralf_c · 10-04-2003, 04:24 PM

hi guys

i just had a thought, what about a round shaped hd block that is just a bit bigger then the average hd spindle base/pedestal that could be mounted with some kind of extension to use the hd's bottom threaded screw holes.

i'll draw a ruff sketch so you guys can get a better idea of it.

MMZ_TimeLord · 10-04-2003, 06:44 PM

#Rotor & Got Karma: Yes, my thought was to secure it to one drive and then use the cage as a clamp to hold the other drive on TOP of this with the bottom drive upside down so the water block is facing up. This would force the weight of the top drive down on the block and also cool it too. (In theory)

ralf_c: This block does screw to the holes on the bottom of the drive, just two of them... otherwise I would have made it narrower.

I did find out one flaw with my design. The motor area is slighty lower than the sides of the drive casing. So I had to go back and mill notches to the ends. Like so...

Got KarmA? · 10-06-2003, 10:28 AM

screw it. I'm just gonna purchase it and worry about mounting it in my own creative way later

sevisehda · 10-07-2003, 03:22 PM

I just built my 3rd (dual)HD block. My first was a drilled top/bottom block. The second was a rotor inspired side side block. I built the 3rd with 1 thing in mind, minimal resistance. Its a slight improvement on the pipe soldered to the drive cage idea. I ripped a sopper pipe, and 2 90bends in half. Then soldered them onto a 1/8 plate.

It barely effects flowI have my HDs perpendicular to the case, hence why the barbs face out. The downward taper is to simplify/shorten the tubing of the system. They keep the drives at about 7C over ambient, about equal to my previous designs.

My next attempt will most likely try to incorporate the HD cooler into part of the loop. I'm trying to figure a way to use a HD cooler as a res or just streamline it into the plumbing the rest of the system.

BladeRunner · 10-08-2003, 07:16 AM

My Hdd block is similar to rotor's in size and function, although internally different as it was made with hand tools.

You really don't need to apply rocket science here as the relatively small heat created over time by a HDD will migrate to the block as long as it has some form of cool coolant flow.

I've not got around to mounting it to the hdds properly yet with the drives just sitting under & on top of the block as my PC remains in one place, but mounting would be similar to rotor's method I guess.

build topic HERE

JFettig · 10-08-2003, 10:20 PM

the only reasonable places to cool on the hdd is the top or bottom, have you ever looked at the sides? where the screwholes are? there is nothing I would consider partially flat there.
The motor would be a great place to cool, is that the hottest place on the hard drive?

Some hard drives dont have that expozed. like this dead quantum hard drive I have sitting here... I have 2 dead quantums... no other dead hard drives, some 5+year old maxtor drives that still work... these quantums are 3years old or less... what does that tell you?

Jon

BrianW · 10-08-2003, 11:08 PM

Well manufactures design hard drives to dissipate heat via ther sides. All hard drives I have seen, are relatively flat on the sides. Only exception are some new SATA drives that actually have heatsinks on the sides.....

BrianW

sevisehda · 10-09-2003, 03:00 AM

HDs produce little heat a pair of 40mm fans will normally keep them cool, many of us however don't like fans hence the need to water cool. Since the heat is minimal the best way to cool is whatever will fit into your system the best.

The drives I have have flat sides. Since the drive chasis is made from aluminum it acts as both chasis and heatsink. With a 1" x 5" interface between WB and HD there is plenty of space for ~20W to transfer.

BladeRunner · 10-09-2003, 07:10 AM

I can only comment on what I've experienced, and like anything it will give you results based on your particular set-up and environment.

My findings with Seagate IV & V hdds seem confirm sevisehda statements, although it must be noted my system is entirely fanless with all major heat producing items water cooled, & I run cooler coolant than most people.

Even cooling just the hdd's cover plate only through the sticker is enough to have cool to the touch drives all over, and internal sensor reported temps of around 28C, (compared to 58C max I got in a test I did recently with no waterblock). It may not be important to the drive to have it cooler that 58C but I don't want anything adding hot air to the case insides either. I also found an 80mm fan at 5v was enough to keep the drives cooler (under 40C)
I did original intend to mount the drives to the block using a copper side plate which would also help sink the heat to the block from this sides, and may still do this, however it appears not to be a requirement with the drives, block and coolant temps I'm using.

Maybe with hotter high speed scsi drives it could be more important to pay particular attention to the block design and contact area.

09-23-2003, 02:53 PM	#27
MMZ_TimeLord Cooling Savant Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: San Mateo, CA, USA, Earth Posts: 433	Ahem... that goes on the BOTTOM of the drive... and you can flip it upside down. Hence the mounting holes. This utilizes the aluminum casing as a heatsink to the copper. The turbulant area is to be centered over the drive motor area. __________________ MMZ>TimeLord "Oooooooooh... that's gonna leave a mark!"

09-23-2003, 04:32 PM	#28
kibbles Cooling Neophyte Join Date: May 2003 Location: Colorado Posts: 27	Consider that a hard drive doesn't put out more that 10 W heat, then a block with a <1.0 C/W over its massive area would suffice, and so nothing complex is in order. Obviously, if it's going to pull double duty, 2 hd's, then by all means beef it up a little. I just wouldn't throw so much copper when some cheapo pipe would do fine. Anyone remember the person who just soldered pipe to his hard drive cage? __________________ MSI K7D Master, 2x1800XP

09-25-2003, 10:01 AM	#29
MMZ_TimeLord Cooling Savant Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: San Mateo, CA, USA, Earth Posts: 433	To complex huh... not worth it? Okay... is this better... Keep in mind you can't use this for two drives UNLESS you drill specialized holes in your drive cage to keep the drives together. The mounting holes this uses do NOT go all the way through... nor can they be drilled all the way through without distroying the platters. __________________ MMZ>TimeLord "Oooooooooh... that's gonna leave a mark!"

10-01-2003, 11:23 PM	#31
BrianW Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Desert City in California Posts: 631	Surely is possible if you utilize the side of the hard drive to cool it. The New Seagate SATA drive have huge heatsinks on the sides of them. They obviously realize it is a sufficient cooling method. Rotor's current blocks cool either the top or the bottom, and allow you to still use you hard drvie cages. One that would work on the sides, would require you to mount it in your 5.25 cage. BrianW __________________ Water Cooled Inwin Q500 (Dual Rads: Rad1 = DTEK Pro Core \| Rad2 = Blick Ice Estreme, Hydor L30, Dangerden Maze2, Bay Res Typhoon Reservoir, 1/2 " DD Tygon Thick Wall Hose). Flow: Res, Pump, CPU watervlock, Y into both rads, both rads into res independently. Athlon XP 1800+ (@ 1731 - 150mhz fsb.), on a Asus A7N266-c, and a Radeon 9000 *waiting for RMA'd Saphire 9800 ultra from Newegg)

10-02-2003, 01:27 AM	#33
#Rotor Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dione, sector 4s1256 Posts: 852	in responce to your PM.... the block is exactly the same size as a drive itself, with holes in the same places, so you can mount it where ever a hard-drive can go. in the picture I'm using brackets, but only because my case has no HD cage in it. 2 hard-drives fit perfectly on it. It is expensive though.... that is a big chunk of copper, and a lot of holes..... As for it being overkill.... You BETCHA!!! like this..... Hard drives produce there heat very slow.... even the hottest of old Barracudas are more than happy with the faintest of breezes, thus, a cool chunk of copper in close proximity to it, will chill it to perfection, no need for paste or a prefect seat, even the stickers on the drive won't make much of a difference, __________________ There is no Spoon....

09-23-2003, 02:34 PM	#26
Teus Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Belgium\Ieper Posts: 65	it's way overkill and only the top centre of the hdd gets cooled

10-01-2003, 09:34 PM	#30
Got KarmA? Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Too far from Canada ... Posts: 95	I just PM'ed rotor about making a hard drive waterblock that I could somehow mount TWO drives onto. Anyone got a clue if this is possible?

10-02-2003, 12:52 AM	#32
Got KarmA? Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Too far from Canada ... Posts: 95	I still want this to fit into my HD cage, so I won't be cooling the sides. What I AM thinking is this ... if the rotor blocks are designed for the mounting holes on a typical hard drive ... in order to get it to work with two, one on either side, would be to have the mounting holes pushed back or foward from the first set ... so as not to conflict. Then ... to prevent the screws from interfering with the second mounted drive, the first set would have to be recessed enough to prevent the screws from preventing proper contact with the second drive. Make sense? I think its a viable solution ... you'd just need two different screw lengths and a few more minutes of extra milling

10-02-2003, 09:13 AM	#34
MMZ_TimeLord Cooling Savant Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: San Mateo, CA, USA, Earth Posts: 433	HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA #Rotor!!! And they said my design with the #rotor core was overkill ... ROFLMAO!!!! __________________ MMZ>TimeLord "Oooooooooh... that's gonna leave a mark!"

10-02-2003, 09:24 AM	#35
siavash_s_s Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: here n there Posts: 194	hmm rotor how did u cut the channels so neat? dremel? __________________ buy me a mill

10-02-2003, 11:02 AM	#36
dogbait Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: London, UK Posts: 70	#Rotor, would your design be more efficient (I realize it is overspec'd for its purpose) if it utilised a 'divider', so that the water had to follow a U-shaped path? As it stands, it seems that there will be less and less flow the farther from the barbs the water travels, and so the area nearest the barbs getting the most cooling. Do you use some kind of gasket to make it water tight?

10-02-2003, 05:39 PM	#37
#Rotor Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dione, sector 4s1256 Posts: 852	overkill yes, but I think your first design will be a lot easier to make, than the one with the single hole through... It probably will yes, in later models I did do exactly that... A Dremel is what I use indeed...I had lotsa practice though... For sealing it up, Marine Goop. __________________ There is no Spoon....

10-02-2003, 06:27 PM	#38
Got KarmA? Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Too far from Canada ... Posts: 95	Hmm ... nice block, I was hoping to get a good look at the internals ... I have one concern though ... the waterblock may not be any larger than a hard drive, and hence fit in the drive cage, BUT those connectors you use to get the second hard drive on there will be. what to do?

10-04-2003, 12:10 AM	#39
MMZ_TimeLord Cooling Savant Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: San Mateo, CA, USA, Earth Posts: 433	#Rotor, I decided to make the one I thought was easier. For me it was. I only had to solder the copper pipes to the block and it works fine. If I had done the first version I designed, I'd still be making it. Picture for yah... I've got it screwed to the drive pictured, but it will have another drive clamped to it I think as I have two. __________________ MMZ>TimeLord "Oooooooooh... that's gonna leave a mark!"

10-04-2003, 08:13 AM	#40
#Rotor Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dione, sector 4s1256 Posts: 852	looks purdy... those little brackets, would not be required, if the HD cage is to be used,... the drives and block can just all be neatly held in place by the cage itself, correct? __________________ There is no Spoon....

10-04-2003, 10:25 AM	#41
Got KarmA? Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Too far from Canada ... Posts: 95	hmmm .. I suppose if you have a spring on one side pushing against the other or something. but I was hoping for something a little less ghetto

10-04-2003, 04:24 PM	#42
ralf_c Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: LA Posts: 61	hi guys i just had a thought, what about a round shaped hd block that is just a bit bigger then the average hd spindle base/pedestal that could be mounted with some kind of extension to use the hd's bottom threaded screw holes. i'll draw a ruff sketch so you guys can get a better idea of it. __________________ best regards, ralf

10-04-2003, 06:44 PM	#43
MMZ_TimeLord Cooling Savant Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: San Mateo, CA, USA, Earth Posts: 433	#Rotor & Got Karma: Yes, my thought was to secure it to one drive and then use the cage as a clamp to hold the other drive on TOP of this with the bottom drive upside down so the water block is facing up. This would force the weight of the top drive down on the block and also cool it too. (In theory) ralf_c: This block does screw to the holes on the bottom of the drive, just two of them... otherwise I would have made it narrower. I did find out one flaw with my design. The motor area is slighty lower than the sides of the drive casing. So I had to go back and mill notches to the ends. Like so... __________________ MMZ>TimeLord "Oooooooooh... that's gonna leave a mark!" Last edited by MMZ_TimeLord; 10-04-2003 at 06:49 PM.

10-06-2003, 10:28 AM	#44
Got KarmA? Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Too far from Canada ... Posts: 95	screw it. I'm just gonna purchase it and worry about mounting it in my own creative way later

10-07-2003, 03:22 PM	#45
sevisehda Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2003 Location: NY Posts: 234	I just built my 3rd (dual)HD block. My first was a drilled top/bottom block. The second was a rotor inspired side side block. I built the 3rd with 1 thing in mind, minimal resistance. Its a slight improvement on the pipe soldered to the drive cage idea. I ripped a sopper pipe, and 2 90bends in half. Then soldered them onto a 1/8 plate. It barely effects flowI have my HDs perpendicular to the case, hence why the barbs face out. The downward taper is to simplify/shorten the tubing of the system. They keep the drives at about 7C over ambient, about equal to my previous designs. My next attempt will most likely try to incorporate the HD cooler into part of the loop. I'm trying to figure a way to use a HD cooler as a res or just streamline it into the plumbing the rest of the system. __________________ CPU: Barton2500 @ 2.43 ghz MB: NF7S Rev2 RAM: 2x 256mb Kingston HyperX 3500 HD's: 2x 160gb SATA RAID GPU: Sapphire X800Pro VIVO -> XT Plat(softmod) 520/590

10-08-2003, 07:16 AM	#46
BladeRunner Cooling Savant Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Chesterfield Uk Posts: 459	My Hdd block is similar to rotor's in size and function, although internally different as it was made with hand tools. You really don't need to apply rocket science here as the relatively small heat created over time by a HDD will migrate to the block as long as it has some form of cool coolant flow. I've not got around to mounting it to the hdds properly yet with the drives just sitting under & on top of the block as my PC remains in one place, but mounting would be similar to rotor's method I guess. build topic HERE __________________ Zero Fan Zone

10-08-2003, 10:20 PM	#47
JFettig Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Willmar MN/Fargo ND Posts: 504	the only reasonable places to cool on the hdd is the top or bottom, have you ever looked at the sides? where the screwholes are? there is nothing I would consider partially flat there. The motor would be a great place to cool, is that the hottest place on the hard drive? Some hard drives dont have that expozed. like this dead quantum hard drive I have sitting here... I have 2 dead quantums... no other dead hard drives, some 5+year old maxtor drives that still work... these quantums are 3years old or less... what does that tell you? Jon

10-08-2003, 11:08 PM	#48
BrianW Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Desert City in California Posts: 631	Well manufactures design hard drives to dissipate heat via ther sides. All hard drives I have seen, are relatively flat on the sides. Only exception are some new SATA drives that actually have heatsinks on the sides..... BrianW __________________ Water Cooled Inwin Q500 (Dual Rads: Rad1 = DTEK Pro Core \| Rad2 = Blick Ice Estreme, Hydor L30, Dangerden Maze2, Bay Res Typhoon Reservoir, 1/2 " DD Tygon Thick Wall Hose). Flow: Res, Pump, CPU watervlock, Y into both rads, both rads into res independently. Athlon XP 1800+ (@ 1731 - 150mhz fsb.), on a Asus A7N266-c, and a Radeon 9000 *waiting for RMA'd Saphire 9800 ultra from Newegg)

10-09-2003, 03:00 AM	#49
sevisehda Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2003 Location: NY Posts: 234	HDs produce little heat a pair of 40mm fans will normally keep them cool, many of us however don't like fans hence the need to water cool. Since the heat is minimal the best way to cool is whatever will fit into your system the best. The drives I have have flat sides. Since the drive chasis is made from aluminum it acts as both chasis and heatsink. With a 1" x 5" interface between WB and HD there is plenty of space for ~20W to transfer. __________________ CPU: Barton2500 @ 2.43 ghz MB: NF7S Rev2 RAM: 2x 256mb Kingston HyperX 3500 HD's: 2x 160gb SATA RAID GPU: Sapphire X800Pro VIVO -> XT Plat(softmod) 520/590

10-09-2003, 07:10 AM	#50
BladeRunner Cooling Savant Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Chesterfield Uk Posts: 459	I can only comment on what I've experienced, and like anything it will give you results based on your particular set-up and environment. My findings with Seagate IV & V hdds seem confirm sevisehda statements, although it must be noted my system is entirely fanless with all major heat producing items water cooled, & I run cooler coolant than most people. Even cooling just the hdd's cover plate only through the sticker is enough to have cool to the touch drives all over, and internal sensor reported temps of around 28C, (compared to 58C max I got in a test I did recently with no waterblock). It may not be important to the drive to have it cooler that 58C but I don't want anything adding hot air to the case insides either. I also found an 80mm fan at 5v was enough to keep the drives cooler (under 40C) I did original intend to mount the drives to the block using a copper side plate which would also help sink the heat to the block from this sides, and may still do this, however it appears not to be a requirement with the drives, block and coolant temps I'm using. Maybe with hotter high speed scsi drives it could be more important to pay particular attention to the block design and contact area. __________________ Zero Fan Zone

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