300w + 300w = 600w? - Page 3

bigben2k · 12-19-2002, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pHaestus
That is the same PSU resold by Fortron that did so well in the THG testing. Sparkle uses big heatsinks, and enormous capacitors. I would be surprised if it would fit into a cdrom.

Would you be talking about the Verax FSP300-60atv?

THG PSU roundup

pHaestus · 12-19-2002, 05:39 PM

Ya the S in FSP is Sparkle. Nice PSUs, esp for the $$. Directron has the 400W Forton, which has PFC. If I were buying a new PSU that would be the one I'd get. I have the Sparkle version in my system now.

bigben2k · 12-19-2002, 07:18 PM

This site compares the unit with a PCP&C and states: "For example The 300-w. model stocked is the SPI Model FSP300-60GT; this model has the "Noise Killer" Fan and appears to be the same unit as the PS PCP&Cooling 300w 'silencer.".

I think that guy is off his rocker...

So I check out the PCP&C site, and I guess they don't make the 300W "silencer" anymore... On the plus side, I got a good idea of what to expect as far as the innards of this thing go.

pHaestus · 12-19-2002, 08:02 PM

http://www.voidyourwarranty.net/imag...klevscdrom.jpg

In 2 5.25" bays: http://www.procooling.com/~phaestus/sparkle6.jpg

bigben2k · 12-20-2002, 10:00 AM

Thanks pHaestus! Thanks a lot! There's no way I'd be able to see these innards without you!

bigben2k · 01-13-2003, 07:32 PM

Thanks to all this talk about lapping a CPU/waterblock (from Billa), and a request for dead CPUs, I found a source for dead CD drives (for the case): newegg!

10 cents a piece+ shipping, woot! The trick is, shipping is expensive, so I got 5 of them; it was cheaper than 4, because it included free shipping. Too bad I couldn't add a couple of power cables, they wanted $6 shipping, each!

Total: $20.00

I'm really tempted to pick up those Lite-on units...

bigben2k · 01-20-2003, 05:58 PM

KDC carries a redundant N+1 PSU array.

From the site, I found a nifty feature: dual AC inlet.

http://www.istar.com.tw/cd/owa/siw_t..._id=8820995333

It was designed for facilities with a power generator: plug your main power line (with UPS) to one input, and the emergency circuit line to the other inlet. The result is that during a power failure, the UPS covers the black out, and is relieved by the generator, whenever it kicks in.

Kinda neat...

bigben2k · 01-21-2003, 06:21 PM

Dead CD drives got here yesterday. (They would have gotten here Friday, but no one was here to sign for them).

3 Hitachi, 1 IMES and 1 Toshiba. One of them was dropped, but the case is recoverable.

Now to find the connectors...

bigben2k · 01-25-2003, 11:26 PM

Some progress:

I broke down, and ordered 4 of those Lite-On units: I just can't work on this without the PSU in my hands.

I found 4 more chips, that do load sharing:
Rockwell: 1402
ST Micro: L6615
Linear Tech.: LT4350
Unitrode: UC3907

I've got all the docs, now I have to figure out how to put it all together.

I also looked at connectors in the latest Jameco catalog. I found a square pin type connector, now all I have to do is figure out how many of them I need, to minimize the voltage drop, and to allow the maximum current.

Now if I could find self-sealing quick-disconnects, that don't require anything to be locked/unlocked, and that don't have a huge pressure drop...

Yo-DUH_87 · 01-26-2003, 02:40 AM

Ok, I must admit that I stumbled on this thread late

I am currently working on a project that was going to take quite a lot of power, about 30-40 A at 12 VDC (not anything computer/cooling related, so you TEC junkies can pull your jaws of the floor

). I looked into buiding a PSU, but that was way too expencive, so I went and bought 2 400 W PSUs ($17 per unit). I built a circut to hook them in parallel with, and it can be done!

However, my implimentation of the idea was not entirely successful, as I ordered the wrong parts

I got 9.5 VDC in parallel with both supplys. This was due to having the wrong parts

I would have gotten the full 12 (possibly a little lower, but not significantly), if I'd been more careful in ordering.

I abandoned the idea, though, as the computer PSUs were wasteful (read: power hungry), and took up alot of space. I just ordered the parts to build a 12v supply, which should be more efficent (since I only need the 12 VDC, not all the 5, 3.3, and others a computer PSU puts out).

If the information would be useful to you, I would be happy to attempt testing the theroy further...

bigben2k · 01-26-2003, 12:39 PM

Yo-DUH_87,

I am definitely interested in your results, and the details of your setup. I have good knowledge of electronics, I can also help you, as needed, to complete it (college wasn't a complete waste!).

Specifically, I still have a question about what happens when two PSUs are directly hooked up in parallel: OnDaEdg observed a voltage increase by 0.7v, and I believe that it is due to the coils being effectively put in parallel (but he didn't specify). It may not be an issue once I outfit the PSUs with the SENSE + and -, but I'd like to know.

As for building one's own PSU, it really isn't terribly complicated, until one reaches high power applications, like you do. Typically, PSUs use a voltage regulator to set the voltage to the appropriate level, then let the power transistors handle the current. These transistors can be paralled, for more amperage. The problem of course is that DIY PSUs typically don't provide any kind of failsafes, like output shorts, or over-current.

Let me know, or PM me!

Yo-DUH_87 · 01-29-2003, 01:30 AM

Some results, as promised (sorry about messy/bad quality pictures):

The PSU Voltage before the circuit (a little low, but that is due to the load on it).

And the voltage after the circuit:

Not to shabby, and still within the ATX standards (11.4). For the record, this is the results from two PSUs hooked together, powering a 400 Watt car stereo (I had it laying around...). I was soon blasting music out at obscene volumes, and rumbling the floor

Still interested? I'm sure that if I took readings without the load, they would look a lot higher.

Do you think that this would make a good Pro/Geek article, would any of you read it?

bigben2k · 01-29-2003, 10:14 AM

You got me curious all right!

I can't say if it would make a good article, without seeing it, but if it adds to pHaestus' article, then it would be good.

Let us know!

Yo-DUH_87 · 01-29-2003, 10:19 AM

I think that OnDa did the PSU article, but I could be wrong

I'll start hammering away at the article, see what I come up with.

It is definately diffrent than OnDa's (or pH's

) article, in the way that the supplys are perfectly isolated from eachother, no danger of feedback into either supply.

bigben2k · 02-02-2003, 01:03 AM

I got the PSUs. They're big: I can tip over some components, but I'll have to replace some.

I took some pics (will be posted later). It was a challenging photo session, with my macro lens: pic#1 (open PSU back) exposures: f22, 10 seconds. f16, 6 sec and f11 3 sec (in a lit room, with ISO 200 film!)

Pic#2 (PSU back and above): f22, 8 sec, f16 4 sec and f11, 2 sec.

Light sources were a mixture of daylight/incandescent and fluorescent; the lab tech is going to have a funky time with the colors!

I found my power connectors, but I'll have to source them somewhere else.

I'll be looking at TI's solutions for adding VSENSE to a PSU. In the meantime, I might try to draw up a schematic of what I've got.

Yo-DUH_87 · 02-02-2003, 01:47 AM

I'm working on that article

Writing never seems hard until you try it!

I'll not set any dates, but I hope have it done in time for the next Pro/Geek contest (this is not an absolute date, life kinda tends to get into the way, every once in a while

)

bigben2k · 02-02-2003, 06:25 PM

Using a previously posted link, I went over the PSU diagram, and found that the TL494 is the chip to be looking to. Now to figure out what to replace it with...

I'll also have to crack open that PSU again, to see which chip they use.

bigben2k · 02-05-2003, 11:51 AM

Of course it isn't simple... This PSU uses another controller chip (I'll post a complete list later).

There are also 7 (seven) big MOSFETs, and at least two smaller ones: this is no ordinary PSU.

From OC's technical forum, I came across this site:
http://www.webx.dk/oz2cpu/homemade-pc-main.htm

This fella (oz2cpu) watercooled just about everything. PSU diagrams and info are there, to some extent.

Now if I could only translate Danish...

bigben2k · 02-10-2003, 05:30 PM

Some progress:

There are only 4 ICs in that PSU. They have three different logos (see below).

I've identified the last one as being Micro Linear ( http://www.microlinear.com/ ), but the other two are still evading me.

The first one looks like the Fujitsu logo.

Either way, I can't match the part numbers with any of their products. The closest match to MicroLinear, is an optical IC part, working in the 5 MHz range. The closest match to Fujitsu is an ASIC.

So I contacted the Houston distributor for Lite On, but since this is a Compaq part, they referred me to HP.

[edit] but I was asking for schematics. I called them back and I got the Compaq p/n, woohoo!

(it's 148789-001) [/edit]

Hp says: we need either a Compaq p/n or a server model.

So I searched the HP website, with no luck.

I then left a message with Directron, to see if they could get me more info.

bigben2k · 02-10-2003, 05:56 PM

Bad news: HP says that the circuit diagram is "confidential".

In other words, if I want the schematic, I can either make one, or find an HP/Compaq engineer!

On the other hand, I found out that the Compaq server it was meant for, is an ML350:shrug:

bigben2k · 02-10-2003, 06:19 PM

Almost missed it... Here are those IC logos!

Yo-DUH_87 · 02-10-2003, 06:52 PM

Had to order more parts, to make the joining device working correctly. Should be getting them sometime tonight. I am hoping to have some time to rebuild the circuit, either tonight or tomorow.

As for my home-brewed PSU, the DigiKey shipment carring the parts for the power sharing circuit also has the rest of the parts I need to build the custom PSU. I'll hold it off until I get the power sharing circuit finalised, though.

Yo-DUH_87 · 02-12-2003, 11:12 AM

Bit of an update:

Got one half of the power sharing circuit rewired last night, had to quit because I was so tired, and making stupid mistakes because of it.

I should be able to finish the rest and do some testing this afternoon/tonight. We'll see, though...

Yo-DUH_87 · 02-13-2003, 12:49 AM

Just finished the circuit about an hour ago, and with the proper components, it works (before it was jury-rigged, and not suitable for 24/7 operation)!

Some peliminary results, with the final working product. For these results I was using 2 "Duro" brand generic PSUs, along with the circuit. These are relatively weak PSUs, but I'm not about to start pulling my computers apart so that I can test with yet two more generic PSUs

Test results:

I am quite impressed myself. I'll see about getting an article running, darn those UPS people, I should have had a weekend to assemble and test the circuit with...

Brando457 · 02-16-2003, 05:35 PM

wghat kinda case u getting link me daddio

12-19-2002, 07:18 PM	#53
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	This site compares the unit with a PCP&C and states: "For example The 300-w. model stocked is the SPI Model FSP300-60GT; this model has the "Noise Killer" Fan and appears to be the same unit as the PS PCP&Cooling 300w 'silencer.". I think that guy is off his rocker... So I check out the PCP&C site, and I guess they don't make the 300W "silencer" anymore... On the plus side, I got a good idea of what to expect as far as the innards of this thing go. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

12-20-2002, 10:00 AM	#55
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Thanks pHaestus! Thanks a lot! There's no way I'd be able to see these innards without you! __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

01-13-2003, 07:32 PM	#56
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Thanks to all this talk about lapping a CPU/waterblock (from Billa), and a request for dead CPUs, I found a source for dead CD drives (for the case): newegg! 10 cents a piece+ shipping, woot! The trick is, shipping is expensive, so I got 5 of them; it was cheaper than 4, because it included free shipping. Too bad I couldn't add a couple of power cables, they wanted $6 shipping, each! Total: $20.00 I'm really tempted to pick up those Lite-on units... __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

01-20-2003, 05:58 PM	#57
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	KDC carries a redundant N+1 PSU array. From the site, I found a nifty feature: dual AC inlet. http://www.istar.com.tw/cd/owa/siw_t..._id=8820995333 It was designed for facilities with a power generator: plug your main power line (with UPS) to one input, and the emergency circuit line to the other inlet. The result is that during a power failure, the UPS covers the black out, and is relieved by the generator, whenever it kicks in. Kinda neat... __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

01-21-2003, 06:21 PM	#58
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Dead CD drives got here yesterday. (They would have gotten here Friday, but no one was here to sign for them). 3 Hitachi, 1 IMES and 1 Toshiba. One of them was dropped, but the case is recoverable. Now to find the connectors... __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

12-19-2002, 05:39 PM	#52
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	Ya the S in FSP is Sparkle. Nice PSUs, esp for the $$. Directron has the 400W Forton, which has PFC. If I were buying a new PSU that would be the one I'd get. I have the Sparkle version in my system now.

12-19-2002, 08:02 PM	#54
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	http://www.voidyourwarranty.net/imag...klevscdrom.jpg In 2 5.25" bays: http://www.procooling.com/~phaestus/sparkle6.jpg

01-25-2003, 11:26 PM	#59
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Some progress: I broke down, and ordered 4 of those Lite-On units: I just can't work on this without the PSU in my hands. I found 4 more chips, that do load sharing: Rockwell: 1402 ST Micro: L6615 Linear Tech.: LT4350 Unitrode: UC3907 I've got all the docs, now I have to figure out how to put it all together. I also looked at connectors in the latest Jameco catalog. I found a square pin type connector, now all I have to do is figure out how many of them I need, to minimize the voltage drop, and to allow the maximum current. Now if I could find self-sealing quick-disconnects, that don't require anything to be locked/unlocked, and that don't have a huge pressure drop... __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

01-26-2003, 02:40 AM	#60
Yo-DUH_87 Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Oregon, USA Posts: 230	Ok, I must admit that I stumbled on this thread late I am currently working on a project that was going to take quite a lot of power, about 30-40 A at 12 VDC (not anything computer/cooling related, so you TEC junkies can pull your jaws of the floor ). I looked into buiding a PSU, but that was way too expencive, so I went and bought 2 400 W PSUs ($17 per unit). I built a circut to hook them in parallel with, and it can be done! However, my implimentation of the idea was not entirely successful, as I ordered the wrong parts I got 9.5 VDC in parallel with both supplys. This was due to having the wrong parts I would have gotten the full 12 (possibly a little lower, but not significantly), if I'd been more careful in ordering. I abandoned the idea, though, as the computer PSUs were wasteful (read: power hungry), and took up alot of space. I just ordered the parts to build a 12v supply, which should be more efficent (since I only need the 12 VDC, not all the 5, 3.3, and others a computer PSU puts out). If the information would be useful to you, I would be happy to attempt testing the theroy further... __________________ Signing out... Yo-DUH_87 If it works, fix it until it's broke! Then, after it's broke, add duct tape! Affordable webhosting!

01-26-2003, 12:39 PM	#61
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Yo-DUH_87, I am definitely interested in your results, and the details of your setup. I have good knowledge of electronics, I can also help you, as needed, to complete it (college wasn't a complete waste!). Specifically, I still have a question about what happens when two PSUs are directly hooked up in parallel: OnDaEdg observed a voltage increase by 0.7v, and I believe that it is due to the coils being effectively put in parallel (but he didn't specify). It may not be an issue once I outfit the PSUs with the SENSE + and -, but I'd like to know. As for building one's own PSU, it really isn't terribly complicated, until one reaches high power applications, like you do. Typically, PSUs use a voltage regulator to set the voltage to the appropriate level, then let the power transistors handle the current. These transistors can be paralled, for more amperage. The problem of course is that DIY PSUs typically don't provide any kind of failsafes, like output shorts, or over-current. Let me know, or PM me! __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

01-29-2003, 01:30 AM	#62
Yo-DUH_87 Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Oregon, USA Posts: 230	Some results, as promised (sorry about messy/bad quality pictures): The PSU Voltage before the circuit (a little low, but that is due to the load on it). And the voltage after the circuit: Not to shabby, and still within the ATX standards (11.4). For the record, this is the results from two PSUs hooked together, powering a 400 Watt car stereo (I had it laying around...). I was soon blasting music out at obscene volumes, and rumbling the floor Still interested? I'm sure that if I took readings without the load, they would look a lot higher. Do you think that this would make a good Pro/Geek article, would any of you read it? __________________ Signing out... Yo-DUH_87 If it works, fix it until it's broke! Then, after it's broke, add duct tape! Affordable webhosting!

01-29-2003, 10:14 AM	#63
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	You got me curious all right! I can't say if it would make a good article, without seeing it, but if it adds to pHaestus' article, then it would be good. Let us know! __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

01-29-2003, 10:19 AM	#64
Yo-DUH_87 Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Oregon, USA Posts: 230	I think that OnDa did the PSU article, but I could be wrong I'll start hammering away at the article, see what I come up with. It is definately diffrent than OnDa's (or pH's ) article, in the way that the supplys are perfectly isolated from eachother, no danger of feedback into either supply. __________________ Signing out... Yo-DUH_87 If it works, fix it until it's broke! Then, after it's broke, add duct tape! Affordable webhosting!

02-02-2003, 01:03 AM	#65
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	I got the PSUs. They're big: I can tip over some components, but I'll have to replace some. I took some pics (will be posted later). It was a challenging photo session, with my macro lens: pic#1 (open PSU back) exposures: f22, 10 seconds. f16, 6 sec and f11 3 sec (in a lit room, with ISO 200 film!) Pic#2 (PSU back and above): f22, 8 sec, f16 4 sec and f11, 2 sec. Light sources were a mixture of daylight/incandescent and fluorescent; the lab tech is going to have a funky time with the colors! I found my power connectors, but I'll have to source them somewhere else. I'll be looking at TI's solutions for adding VSENSE to a PSU. In the meantime, I might try to draw up a schematic of what I've got. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

02-02-2003, 01:47 AM	#66
Yo-DUH_87 Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Oregon, USA Posts: 230	I'm working on that article Writing never seems hard until you try it! I'll not set any dates, but I hope have it done in time for the next Pro/Geek contest (this is not an absolute date, life kinda tends to get into the way, every once in a while ) __________________ Signing out... Yo-DUH_87 If it works, fix it until it's broke! Then, after it's broke, add duct tape! Affordable webhosting!

02-02-2003, 06:25 PM	#67
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Using a previously posted link, I went over the PSU diagram, and found that the TL494 is the chip to be looking to. Now to figure out what to replace it with... I'll also have to crack open that PSU again, to see which chip they use. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

02-05-2003, 11:51 AM	#68
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Of course it isn't simple... This PSU uses another controller chip (I'll post a complete list later). There are also 7 (seven) big MOSFETs, and at least two smaller ones: this is no ordinary PSU. From OC's technical forum, I came across this site: http://www.webx.dk/oz2cpu/homemade-pc-main.htm This fella (oz2cpu) watercooled just about everything. PSU diagrams and info are there, to some extent. Now if I could only translate Danish... __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

02-10-2003, 05:30 PM	#69
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Some progress: There are only 4 ICs in that PSU. They have three different logos (see below). I've identified the last one as being Micro Linear ( http://www.microlinear.com/ ), but the other two are still evading me. The first one looks like the Fujitsu logo. Either way, I can't match the part numbers with any of their products. The closest match to MicroLinear, is an optical IC part, working in the 5 MHz range. The closest match to Fujitsu is an ASIC. So I contacted the Houston distributor for Lite On, but since this is a Compaq part, they referred me to HP. [edit] but I was asking for schematics. I called them back and I got the Compaq p/n, woohoo! (it's 148789-001) [/edit] Hp says: we need either a Compaq p/n or a server model. So I searched the HP website, with no luck. I then left a message with Directron, to see if they could get me more info. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101 Last edited by bigben2k; 02-10-2003 at 05:37 PM.

02-10-2003, 05:56 PM	#70
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Bad news: HP says that the circuit diagram is "confidential". In other words, if I want the schematic, I can either make one, or find an HP/Compaq engineer! On the other hand, I found out that the Compaq server it was meant for, is an ML350:shrug: __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

02-10-2003, 06:52 PM	#72
Yo-DUH_87 Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Oregon, USA Posts: 230	Had to order more parts, to make the joining device working correctly. Should be getting them sometime tonight. I am hoping to have some time to rebuild the circuit, either tonight or tomorow. As for my home-brewed PSU, the DigiKey shipment carring the parts for the power sharing circuit also has the rest of the parts I need to build the custom PSU. I'll hold it off until I get the power sharing circuit finalised, though. __________________ Signing out... Yo-DUH_87 If it works, fix it until it's broke! Then, after it's broke, add duct tape! Affordable webhosting!

02-12-2003, 11:12 AM	#73
Yo-DUH_87 Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Oregon, USA Posts: 230	Bit of an update: Got one half of the power sharing circuit rewired last night, had to quit because I was so tired, and making stupid mistakes because of it. I should be able to finish the rest and do some testing this afternoon/tonight. We'll see, though... __________________ Signing out... Yo-DUH_87 If it works, fix it until it's broke! Then, after it's broke, add duct tape! Affordable webhosting!

02-13-2003, 12:49 AM	#74
Yo-DUH_87 Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Oregon, USA Posts: 230	Just finished the circuit about an hour ago, and with the proper components, it works (before it was jury-rigged, and not suitable for 24/7 operation)! Some peliminary results, with the final working product. For these results I was using 2 "Duro" brand generic PSUs, along with the circuit. These are relatively weak PSUs, but I'm not about to start pulling my computers apart so that I can test with yet two more generic PSUs Test results: I am quite impressed myself. I'll see about getting an article running, darn those UPS people, I should have had a weekend to assemble and test the circuit with... __________________ Signing out... Yo-DUH_87 If it works, fix it until it's broke! Then, after it's broke, add duct tape! Affordable webhosting!

02-16-2003, 05:35 PM	#75
Brando457 Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Jersey Posts: 17	wghat kinda case u getting link me daddio

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