Possible good idea, please have read - Page 3

Brad · 02-09-2002, 05:29 AM

ok, an average 16 year old will not put a computer together right. I can guarentee one of these things will happen:

cpu heatsink related (not put on right, not put on, no thermal grease, etc)
no mobo standoff's used
jumpers, leads, cables etc in the wrong places. (IDE slave and master issues, front panel connectors screwed up, etc)

simon · 02-09-2002, 01:43 PM

What most people including myself think is this, I can get alsower more expensive system and have to do nothing or for less money I can get a faster system. Companies like dell and compaq, all make upgrading a big hasel and overpriced to make the consumer feel like it is to difficult to do on their own. The whole point is with literally 5 minutes reading you can learn the basics of setting up a system and anyone can do this. They don't at the moment due to the fact that these people don't know how simple it is, if they were told then they would do it.

Also to the other post, I said it would be like having a dual cpu on one chip. Even if this was the case it would be very much faster asthe system resources wouldn't be shared and the transfering of information between the cpu's would be much faster and reduce latency(main problem for bottleneck in dual cpu setup). If the larger chips ever came out and couple of extra pipeline steps would sortout the problem and share out all the information throughout the chip.

simon · 02-09-2002, 01:51 PM

I also didnt say hyper threading, I said with something similar, ie still send more info but an added step to direct it to different transistor routes, so it would work as hyper threading as normal to help in heavy workload situations but also stop bottlnecks when not under such a heavy load.

While reading up on the new AMD Hammer chips this would seem to be easier to accomplish as it has much larger onboard stuff going on, intergrated memory controller on chip, No more northbrige with the new Hammer reduces latency with memory issues, its going to kill of the Itanium, I wouldn't be surprised if the 5Ghz Itanium never came out, Intel are probably going to apply for a licence to produe x86-64 style chips, this proves Intel are scared of the new Hammer, AMD can screw INTEL out of a huge amount of money for this and it means that everyone should stick with AMD for now because that Northwood chip isn't going to be as good as Hammer.

DigitalChaos · 02-09-2002, 01:52 PM

could your grandma do it? uhmm i know mine couldnt
half the people buyin a computer done know wtf processor speed means!!!

the general market isnt trying to get extra performance like us. if you said you could get a computer that was 300mhz faster just by using watercooling... they would say "is that good?". and if they knew enough to know that it IS good then they would take that extra money and put it into a faster cpu NOT water cooling... water cooling is a hobby and ONLY a hobby. the only time it is used in the market is for special applications.

resago · 02-09-2002, 01:58 PM

At least %70 of the people I deal with refer to the computer as thier HARD DRIVE.

jaydee · 02-09-2002, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by resago
At least %70 of the people I deal with refer to the computer as thier HARD DRIVE.

The last 3 computers I worked on I got the same comment.

Person: "So all I have to do is bring the hard drive"
Me:"No, I need the case with the components in it"
Person: "But all I have is this hard drive that the keyboard and mouse got to, and has the power and reset buttom"
Me: "Bring me the hard Drive then"

Can't belive how ignorant people are about this stuff. You would think after dropping 100'sof dollars they would want to know how it works, but no. Just like people and cars. All they want to do is turn the key. If it dosn't start it goes to the tech!! Same thing on the computer world. Most people don't WANT to work on things if they do not have to unlike us who do like to.

GigaFrog · 02-09-2002, 02:21 PM

The remaining 30%: their modem.

A friend of mine (I thought so): "do you need this big box?" (he understood the usefullness of the screen, the keyboard, the mouse and the speakers, but had no clue what the computer case was for!)

Brians256 · 02-09-2002, 04:38 PM

This is in response to the idea of watercooling going mainstream (much earlier in the thread).

Do you all know that there is a well understood method of making chips 30% faster? Even Intel made a prototype chip, and it worked just fine. But, no one uses that technology.

It doesn't matter as much whether or not it will work. It matters much more that the technology is easy to ship and reliable. Watercooling will probably never make it mainstream, sad to say, because of the comfort level. Manufacturers are unwilling to make a jump to a technology which will make customers uncomfortable. Also, it adds to the cost. The main market is not willing to spend $75 extra to watercool their chips, especially when their current systems run fast enough.

Remember the management mantra: good enough. If it's good enough, don't mess with it.

Anyway, the technology I was talking about earlier is called asynchronously timed circuits. Look it up on http://www.eetimes.com for verification.

Xel · 02-09-2002, 05:08 PM

Actually, if watercooling was mainstream, then you wouldn't have to change anything on the chips they sent out except the clock speed. AMD and Intel set the clock speed on the chip to a speed that should be stable with OEM cooling. If everyone had watercooling, then they could send them out with a higher clock speed.

It's too bad people are too stupid for watercooling to be mainstream.

Brad · 02-10-2002, 06:05 AM

in my experiance, 40% call it the hdd, 30% the cpu, and the rest have no ****ing idea what it is

Bollocks · 02-10-2002, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by simon
Double size =double no. of transistors = double amount of work can be done.
Not every command has to go through every transistor, also the P4 new hyper transport whatever, it doubles the amount of info sent to the cpu so that if the cpu is underutilised then it will push extra commands through, if the cpu is busy it will push it through when it can, with something similar it could work which transistors to use.
It would be like having a dual cpu system but in one chip.

Uh oh....Sad thing is simon appears to be running on upper management software.

Buzz word + little/no researching != good idea, or correct thinking.

Its getting a bit |H| in here

DigitalChaos · 02-10-2002, 12:41 PM

bwahaha... yea im agreeing with that [H] comment...

sunblade · 02-10-2002, 02:13 PM

I see heatpipes or thermal siphons becoming the norm for liquid cooling just because they don't require a pump. Laptops already use heatpipes (even Apple, OMG!), but nobody knows the wiser. All the corporate execs who are happy with their notebooks don't realize that their machine contains liquid. Normally the heatpipes have a lower pressure, so even if a leak devloped, air would be sucked into the pipe instead of a random liquid gushing out everywhere.

Brad · 02-10-2002, 07:07 PM

but the differance here is that the pipe is solid copper and about 5cm long. there is no pump.

big differance to a system with a pump and silicone tubing

02-09-2002, 05:29 AM	#51
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	ok, an average 16 year old will not put a computer together right. I can guarentee one of these things will happen: cpu heatsink related (not put on right, not put on, no thermal grease, etc) no mobo standoff's used jumpers, leads, cables etc in the wrong places. (IDE slave and master issues, front panel connectors screwed up, etc) __________________ 2x P3 1100's at 1400, Abit VP6, 2x Corsair 256mb PC150 sticks, 20gb 'cuda ATA-III, 2x 40gb 'cuda ATA-IV in raid 0. 20" Trinitron. No fans 2x 2400+ at 2288mhz (16.0 x 143), Iwill MPX2, 2x Kingmax PC-3200 256mb sticks, 4x 20gb 60gxp in Raid 5 on a Promise SX6000. Asus Ti4200 320/630. Cooled by Water

02-09-2002, 01:52 PM	#54
DigitalChaos Cooling Savant Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Waukesha, Wi Posts: 698	could your grandma do it? uhmm i know mine couldnt half the people buyin a computer done know wtf processor speed means!!! the general market isnt trying to get extra performance like us. if you said you could get a computer that was 300mhz faster just by using watercooling... they would say "is that good?". and if they knew enough to know that it IS good then they would take that extra money and put it into a faster cpu NOT water cooling... water cooling is a hobby and ONLY a hobby. the only time it is used in the market is for special applications. Last edited by DigitalChaos; 02-09-2002 at 01:56 PM.

02-09-2002, 02:21 PM	#57
GigaFrog Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: NorthWest (French & US) Posts: 88	The remaining 30%: their modem. A friend of mine (I thought so): "do you need this big box?" (he understood the usefullness of the screen, the keyboard, the mouse and the speakers, but had no clue what the computer case was for!) __________________ Got water? Water cooled for 3 years. Safe with thermal switch. Now silent with fan thermostat. Last edited by GigaFrog; 02-09-2002 at 02:24 PM.

02-10-2002, 06:05 AM	#60
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	in my experiance, 40% call it the hdd, 30% the cpu, and the rest have no ****ing idea what it is __________________ 2x P3 1100's at 1400, Abit VP6, 2x Corsair 256mb PC150 sticks, 20gb 'cuda ATA-III, 2x 40gb 'cuda ATA-IV in raid 0. 20" Trinitron. No fans 2x 2400+ at 2288mhz (16.0 x 143), Iwill MPX2, 2x Kingmax PC-3200 256mb sticks, 4x 20gb 60gxp in Raid 5 on a Promise SX6000. Asus Ti4200 320/630. Cooled by Water

02-10-2002, 07:07 PM	#64
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	but the differance here is that the pipe is solid copper and about 5cm long. there is no pump. big differance to a system with a pump and silicone tubing __________________ 2x P3 1100's at 1400, Abit VP6, 2x Corsair 256mb PC150 sticks, 20gb 'cuda ATA-III, 2x 40gb 'cuda ATA-IV in raid 0. 20" Trinitron. No fans 2x 2400+ at 2288mhz (16.0 x 143), Iwill MPX2, 2x Kingmax PC-3200 256mb sticks, 4x 20gb 60gxp in Raid 5 on a Promise SX6000. Asus Ti4200 320/630. Cooled by Water

02-09-2002, 01:43 PM	#52
simon Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: London,UK Posts: 40	What most people including myself think is this, I can get alsower more expensive system and have to do nothing or for less money I can get a faster system. Companies like dell and compaq, all make upgrading a big hasel and overpriced to make the consumer feel like it is to difficult to do on their own. The whole point is with literally 5 minutes reading you can learn the basics of setting up a system and anyone can do this. They don't at the moment due to the fact that these people don't know how simple it is, if they were told then they would do it. Also to the other post, I said it would be like having a dual cpu on one chip. Even if this was the case it would be very much faster asthe system resources wouldn't be shared and the transfering of information between the cpu's would be much faster and reduce latency(main problem for bottleneck in dual cpu setup). If the larger chips ever came out and couple of extra pipeline steps would sortout the problem and share out all the information throughout the chip.

02-09-2002, 01:51 PM	#53
simon Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: London,UK Posts: 40	I also didnt say hyper threading, I said with something similar, ie still send more info but an added step to direct it to different transistor routes, so it would work as hyper threading as normal to help in heavy workload situations but also stop bottlnecks when not under such a heavy load. While reading up on the new AMD Hammer chips this would seem to be easier to accomplish as it has much larger onboard stuff going on, intergrated memory controller on chip, No more northbrige with the new Hammer reduces latency with memory issues, its going to kill of the Itanium, I wouldn't be surprised if the 5Ghz Itanium never came out, Intel are probably going to apply for a licence to produe x86-64 style chips, this proves Intel are scared of the new Hammer, AMD can screw INTEL out of a huge amount of money for this and it means that everyone should stick with AMD for now because that Northwood chip isn't going to be as good as Hammer.

02-09-2002, 01:58 PM	#55
resago Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: state of denial Posts: 488	At least %70 of the people I deal with refer to the computer as thier HARD DRIVE.

02-09-2002, 04:38 PM	#58
Brians256 Pro/Staff Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Klamath Falls, OR Posts: 1,439	This is in response to the idea of watercooling going mainstream (much earlier in the thread). Do you all know that there is a well understood method of making chips 30% faster? Even Intel made a prototype chip, and it worked just fine. But, no one uses that technology. It doesn't matter as much whether or not it will work. It matters much more that the technology is easy to ship and reliable. Watercooling will probably never make it mainstream, sad to say, because of the comfort level. Manufacturers are unwilling to make a jump to a technology which will make customers uncomfortable. Also, it adds to the cost. The main market is not willing to spend $75 extra to watercool their chips, especially when their current systems run fast enough. Remember the management mantra: good enough. If it's good enough, don't mess with it. Anyway, the technology I was talking about earlier is called asynchronously timed circuits. Look it up on http://www.eetimes.com for verification.

02-09-2002, 05:08 PM	#59
Xel Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 46	Actually, if watercooling was mainstream, then you wouldn't have to change anything on the chips they sent out except the clock speed. AMD and Intel set the clock speed on the chip to a speed that should be stable with OEM cooling. If everyone had watercooling, then they could send them out with a higher clock speed. It's too bad people are too stupid for watercooling to be mainstream.

02-10-2002, 12:41 PM	#62
DigitalChaos Cooling Savant Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Waukesha, Wi Posts: 698	bwahaha... yea im agreeing with that [H] comment...

02-10-2002, 02:13 PM	#63
sunblade Registered User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: USA Posts: 156	I see heatpipes or thermal siphons becoming the norm for liquid cooling just because they don't require a pump. Laptops already use heatpipes (even Apple, OMG!), but nobody knows the wiser. All the corporate execs who are happy with their notebooks don't realize that their machine contains liquid. Normally the heatpipes have a lower pressure, so even if a leak devloped, air would be sucked into the pipe instead of a random liquid gushing out everywhere.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)