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Random Nonsense / Geek Stuff All those random tech ramblings you can't fit anywhere else! |
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02-23-2005, 09:04 PM | #51 | |
Cooling Neophyte
Join Date: Feb 2005
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No i don't think so althought i guess we'll never know that...
Do you think that Americans had democracy in their mind when they were establishing dictatorships all around the world including my country??? NO Do you remember what the war against Iraq was all about??? Weapons of mass destruction... Did they find any??? NO Their excuse for killing 100.000 people... "We made a mistake on the weapons (Yeah right...)but we will establish democracy..." Do you know the real reason for the war??? Oil and the son finishing the work of the father... And that has nothing to do neither with democracy nor with freedom... It's about money, wanting to rule the world and playing the big gangsta with your taxpayers money, either you like it or not. The whole world owns to US as much as they own to any other country.Having 500 billion a year to spend on guns doesn't make you neither special nor democratic. Quote:
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02-23-2005, 09:22 PM | #52 | |
Cooling Savant
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It still disgusts me that the US called for financial aid for the WTC terrorism, cried foul and made out like it was the biggest tragedy in modern history. How many innocents have died due to the war on 'democracy' (what a ****ing pile of bullshit, the things people will chose to believe is amazing) - i agree with slr.
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02-23-2005, 09:22 PM | #53 | |
Cooling Savant
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From the original post:
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1) democracy is bad and should not be promoted (I don't think Canadians think this) 2) democracy is good for us, but people in non-democratic countries do not deserve democracy (I don't want to believe that Canadians think this) 3) democracy is good, so long as it is not a result of US involvement (what I stated in my previous post) Whether or not the US is a horrible country is not the topic of this thread, as far as I can tell.
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If not, why not? |
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02-23-2005, 09:25 PM | #54 | |
Cooling Savant
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OK there were no WMD. But it does not follow that this war was for oil. Please qualify your argument. First explain to me the economic viability. Next please point out the dictator that we are installing in Iraq in order to ensure we get oil on the cheap. Let me ask you a question, don’t you think if it was cheap oil we where after we would invade Canada. The economically it is much more viable and they don’t suicide bomb. I'm still trying to figure out who these 100,000 people are that we supposedly killed in Iraq. I fought in the war and I did see 100,000 people killed by Americans or British. BTW how about all the Iraqis forced to vote at gun point last month Last edited by Lothar5150; 02-23-2005 at 11:13 PM. |
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02-23-2005, 09:46 PM | #55 | |
Put up or Shut Up
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02-23-2005, 09:58 PM | #56 | |
Cooling Neophyte
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Los Gatos, California
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02-23-2005, 10:43 PM | #57 |
Cooling Savant
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Dunedin NZ
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You're not an adult until you can legally drink in bars (gotta get lighthearted somewhere in here, eh)
Age is 20 in CA, isnt it?
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Hypocritical Signature I tried to delete: Procooling: where scientific principles are ignored because big corporations are immune to mistakes and oversights. |
02-23-2005, 11:17 PM | #58 | |
Cooling Neophyte
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Greece
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Greece is more than capable of producing it's own dirt bags without noone help that's true.It is true for any country in the world.But this particular one was "supported" by the US.
Starting a war for a reason and in the end saying that it wasn't valid is not OK. It's like me killing you because i thought that you raped my wife and then proven wrong...How's that for an example??? Even better kill you because i have the suspicion that you MIGHT rape my wife???The least that would happen to me is go to jail... I think that US has the most advanced intelligence agency in the world.I wouldn't be surprised if our discussion is being monitored...So i believe that they should have been able to know whether there where WMD's or not. Invading Canada is not an option simply because there is no way to justify it. Canada doesn't "need" any sort of reform, doesn't have any major differences with anyone and it's a free peacefull country.You simply cannot attack someone like that. The Iraqis didn't vote with guns pointed at them and that's a definately a good thing i never said anything different.The point is that it was done the wrong way.Democracy and voting isn't even the reason that this war started for... And one other thing for jaydee116. I never said that Greece does not buy weapons.All the countries in the world have weapons.But having them is one thing and using them is another.Also i challenge you spend a couple of minutes reading the article you pointed me to.It will help you understand a lot of things about what's going in this region. Also closing i would like to say a thing to avoid any misunderstanding. I do not have anything against Lothar or jaydee, against Americans Turks or any other nation in the world and i do not see this thread as a vendetta or a way to separate the good from the bad guys. I see it as an opportunity to exchange opinions on matters that affect our lives whether we understand it or not, whether we like it or not. Nothing i said until now was meant to be personal to anyone And one more thing... Peace Quote:
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02-24-2005, 12:19 AM | #59 | |
Cooling Savant
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No offense taken we are all adults here...even you peepingdan . This was intended to be a rational discussion with a little ribbing. We are getting off topic here but let me address this. I think you an many other people view America as being a Omnipotent Super Power and the reality is that we make honest mistakes. If we had as good an intelligence apparatus as you think- do you think 9/11 would have occurred? The truth is that after the Cold War we dismantled a large portion of our intelligence infrastructure. Sure we had great technology, but that was it. Talk about Iraq....there were some very basic things that we didn't know about the countries infrastructure. The bottom line is that you shouldn't think because we are a super power that we are all knowing. Back on topic, I think that it should be noted that our Presidents stand to support democracy does not mean that we are going to invade every country that is not a democracy. I think that his statement simply means that we will no longer support dictators as we did during the Cold War and we were going to re-think our relationship with some or our non-democratic allies. Further, I think we will likely apply economic and political pressure in most cases. |
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02-24-2005, 12:23 AM | #60 |
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I think it is a matter of a few politicians trying to force their ideas.
I think all politicians are liars and cheats and would sell their mom for an extra vote. And the one’s that make policy are the minority. In Americans defense… Do you think the general public was aware what was happening when the CIA supported the dictators that had gained power? Only difference is that with live media it is now harder to for the government to lie to its citizens and the rest of the world
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02-24-2005, 12:55 AM | #61 | |
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02-24-2005, 05:05 AM | #62 | |
Cooling Neophyte
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Location: Los Gatos, California
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3 years of tapping your feet... |
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02-24-2005, 05:20 AM | #63 | |
Cooling Neophyte
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No, this was during the 1600's, democracy had not yet paved it's way through northern europe at that time. BTW, kudos to Greece for hatching the idea We became a democracy through free elections. Which is worse: an non-democracy annexing/forcefully taking over a neighbor/other country. Or a democracy (read: USA) doing it? You can’t deny the tremendous turn out. Ofcourse not. I wasn't aware I did. On the other hand, the Ba'ath party got about 98% votes last time Shaddam staged an election. Meaning what exactly? - Turnout means diddly squat as long as it's above 50%. You think that well organized tyrannical states fail from the inside? Eventually, yes. When they are ready. There are numerous well documented cases of it throughout history. And a couple of recent ones the past 50 years. The Soviet Union, or more specifically states belonging to the union, East Germany along with a couple of eastern european countrys during the mid 90's. Prior to that, during the early 90's, Poland, Slovenia, and the baltic states Estonia, Latvia & Lithuania. All freed themselfs from the tyrany of communist oppression by them selfs. All of which today enjoy freedom and democracy due to people taking to the streets, demonstrating. Bush is playing the crazy cowboy to give you (EU) more leverage diplomatically. Unfortunatly that's a role he has taken upon himself without anyone asking. And in doing so failing miserably at getting any credebility for himself or his cause. To stay on topic though, Don't confuse the EU with the UN. EU itself has little or nothing to do with anything outside it's borders. They (we) sometimes let the rest of the world know where we stand in a particular question - but the line is drawn there. There is no next step, no military action. Now the UN is a totaly diffrent story. One everyone can research for themselfs. On the other hand fascist states like Ba’athist Iraq, Nazi Germany, Stalinist Russia or Castro’s Cuba will never fail on their own. They work too well. Misrepresentation of historical facts. Nazi Germany dug it's own grave by going to war. Stalinist Russia collapsed under it's own crumbling ideology - granted the collapse came long after Stalin was gone, but it was still run pretty much the same way, same domestic and foreign policy untill Gorbatjov came along - the rest is history. And Castro, well... He's what, in his late 60s? It would surprise me greatly if the people of Cuba would put up with his antequated ways of doing things after he is gone. Time will tell Have a nice day |
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02-24-2005, 05:33 AM | #64 | |
Cooling Savant
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Not that these casualties include for instance those killed by the criminals Saddam let out just before the invasion.
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02-24-2005, 12:51 PM | #65 |
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between 7k and 100k? Wow, thats a pretty wide margine. Wide enough for me to believe that it is just numbers someone pulled out of their ass.
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02-24-2005, 02:15 PM | #66 | ||
Cooling Savant
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Location: Surf City USA
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America has not annexed Iraq…be intellectually honest. In fact now we are working as hard as we can to get their own security up and working so we can pull our troops back home. So you’re saying that the elections in Iraq did mean anything? That the were staged by America. You’re kidding right? Or you are in complete denial of reality. The Eastern Block Countries freed themselves with a lot of US pressure on the Soviet Union. You forget that Mikhail Gorbachev was convince by Reagan to allow more freedoms and thereby wakening that Soviet authority. I don’t misinterpret anything; you have the fact all wrong. Stalinist Russia never collapsed. Stalin died as leader of the Soviet Union which later collapsed under much weaker rule by Gobachev. Your right the Nazi Germany did dig its own grave. Had the US not intervened they would likely run Europe today. Castro has been in power now for over 46 years he will likely die as the dictator of Cuba unless there is military intervention in Cuba. BTW Castro is in his 80’s. Honestly the more I look at your point the more it suggests you are not as versed in history as you think. Quote:
An honest analysis is all I ask. It seems like we have taken two steps back from The Age of Enlightenment, where seeking the truth was more important that personal bias. We'll be back to burning witches soon. Last edited by Lothar5150; 02-24-2005 at 02:23 PM. |
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02-24-2005, 03:14 PM | #67 |
Cooling Neophyte
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: slc
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Lothar will you stop this stupid pro american propaganda, i thought this site was about computer cooling...If you are so excited about being such a glorious pro democratic american soldier, there are probably some places where you can go and masturbate with your brillant and objective arguments....
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02-24-2005, 03:32 PM | #68 | |
CoolingWorks Tech Guy Formerly "Unregistered"
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if you do not wish to read, click on something else all about freedom, no ? |
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02-24-2005, 03:38 PM | #69 | |
Cooling Savant
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Second the thread title is: How can you not support democracy? The thread was intended to be about Democracy not America in particular. It is chuckle heads like you that keep going off topic. |
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02-24-2005, 03:46 PM | #70 |
Cooling Savant
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well, obveously almost everyone supports democracy, thats a dumb black-and-white type question I would expect to see on FoxNews. The question should be, what form of democracy do you support. Or what is the best way to bring democracy to a country? Or how to understand if a country is ready for democracy?
Then again, you need to considder the people that really dont want democracy. I'm sure there are some people that WANT to live in a theocracy under religous law. Should there be a place for them to go? Should we have a couple countries set aside for religous nuts to go live in if they want to? If not, then aren't we infringeing on their right to live how they want?
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02-24-2005, 04:05 PM | #71 |
CoolingWorks Tech Guy Formerly "Unregistered"
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stepping aside here for a digression:
for me it is all about freedom, to have the right - and ability - to make choices if choices are not possible, say in a prison, there is no freedom and adults can prattle on about the what and how and why - religious countries are a good example but what about children ? are they ENTITLED to freedom ? at what age ? freedom from what ? -> their parents filling their heads with crap ? and we ALL will define 'crap' differently while not enamored of the US knows better approach (which we clearly do not), is the greater good served by leaving despots in power ? Idi Amin is my first example and I will add one after another until the consensus in arrived at that it is an act of universal morality to remove despots - do we need to define what a despot is ? |
02-24-2005, 05:20 PM | #72 |
The Pro/Life Support System
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Cummon, how long till this thread devolves into threatening to kill people? thats the procooling I know and love! hehe
j/k Just wondering how long this thread will go before it turns into the other well known political thread hehe
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02-24-2005, 07:08 PM | #73 |
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as aposed to just being a continuation of the other well known political thread?
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When you do things right, people won't be sure youv'e done anything at all. Looking to buy/trade for used Deep Fryer and Vacume Pack Sealer. |
02-24-2005, 07:16 PM | #74 |
CoolingWorks Tech Guy Formerly "Unregistered"
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post #71 had no US/Iraq slant
care to respond ? |
02-24-2005, 07:22 PM | #75 | |
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