Anyone still interested in .......

[nikhsub1]

Originally Posted by unregistered

BE
this ?
http://sanyodb.colle.co.jp/product_d...master_id=1231
nice specs, but my experience is ya gotta test 'em

No these: http://sanyodb.colle.co.jp/product_d...master_id=1140 BE you can get these fans from only one source I know of for $4.99 each, quite a deal IMO, actually $6.90 each shipped or so. You need to PM this guy here: http://www.ocforums.com/member.php?u=49301 I got my 6 from him. Anyway, these fans are too loud for this test. 39dba. Bill, do you have any of those Mechatronics laying around? I'll buy them from ya!

[talcum]

Add one more twist, how do you address the SFF contingents needs? Are they stuck using heatpipe or low flow? It would be hard to haul the 10 1/2" by 10 1/2" by 2" thick radiator system to a lan party when full of water.

[BillA]

sorry, no more of those Mechs for sale - found only 4
I can provide 2 for testing if necessary

[Chew_Toy]

Hee are a couple links to fans I have been looking for, I havnt been able to find any place that carries them yet, but I do think they would work quite well. When I do find a place I can order them from I plan on getting 2 of each to try.

http://sanyodb.colle.co.jp/product_d...master_id=1170

http://sanyodb.colle.co.jp/product_d...master_id=1169

I have been using primarily sanyo fans since 95. Out of the 15~20 I have used I have had only 1 go bad, I believe that they are about as good of quality as you can get from my experience.

[nikhsub1]

Originally Posted by unregistered

sorry, no more of those Mechs for sale - found only 4
I can provide 2 for testing if necessary

Excellent! Are these in fact true to their CFM/dBa #'s? IIRC, 55CFM and 25dBa.

[BillA]

Originally Posted by nikhsub1

Excellent! Are these in fact true to their CFM/dBa #'s? IIRC, 55CFM and 25dBa.

now who on earth can answer that !
that they are quiet and low powered can be assured, actual values ???
Mechatronics G1225S12B

[nikhsub1]

Originally Posted by unregistered

now who on earth can answer that !
that they are quiet and low powered can be assured, actual values ???
Mechatronics G1225S12B

Wow a google seach shows they are available, at a decent price too... http://store.coolerguys.com/840556034032.html

[BillA]

that is a good price

[bigben2k]

He he, a Yahoo Ms store. I spoke with their tech support this week.

[Cathar]

Originally Posted by nikhsub1

Excellent! Are these in fact true to their CFM/dBa #'s? IIRC, 55CFM and 25dBa.

Looks on paper to be an equivalent of the Papst 4412FGL's

[Blackeagle]

The mectronics fans are very quiet, no quesiton about it. But what of the pressure to keep up a good air flow through a heater core?

Need to check into these.

Bill, you are right of course regarding testing, as to much advertising is smoke and mirrors. But the specs are enough to interest me. And Nikhsub1 gives them a good referance as well,

And I don't think 39dba is anything outragous for this test. The idea, I thought, was to select parts for a high flowing & performing cooling loop. Try'n to beat the EU guys at what is one of thier stong points (low noise), seems to me to be passing them a "win" with no effort at all by the EU guys.

We need a O/Cers cooling loop. Lots of pwer and strong flow!

[BillA]

"We need a O/Cers cooling loop. Lots of power and strong flow!"

is this the mission statement ?
(ok by me)
always helps to focus on what is known and understood

what on earth do "a O/Cers cooling loop" and "30dBA" have in common ? . . . . . . .
quite nothing I submit
as long as the fans are multispeed and have a 12V/7V switch, let 'em rip (to 44-45 perhaps ?)

[Cathar]

Originally Posted by unregistered

what on earth do "a O/Cers cooling loop" and "30dBA" have in common ? . . . . . . .
quite nothing I submit

Hmmm - perhaps more in common than one would think given a largish radiator and multiple low-noise fans.

If radiator C/W can get to even just 0.025C/W for 30dBA (or less) then the two concepts can co-exist quite comfortably.

It's the old adage:

Low-Space
Low-Noise
High-Performance

Pick any two.

[Blackeagle]

Please suggest any core you wish Cathar, and what ever fans you'd combine with it.

I"m not dead set against low noise fans, but the relativly low cfm and pressure fans which were increasingly being discussed would not make good fans to combine with most heater cores.

Bill was right from the beginning, define the gaol, I tried to avoid that in hope of getting a gradual consensus.

But the whole issure was one regarding the US DIY high performance system with strong pump, heater core rads & 1/2 lines and blocks vs the EU type systems with small 8mmID or less lines, low powered quiet pumps (1048 was mentioned), low noise fans and made for Water cooling rads like the BIX II.

I'd say fans such as the Panaflo 120 X 38 M size should be minimum for a heater core & possiblly fans such as the Panflo H or Sanyo - Denki 120 X 38 like Nikhsub1 posted, although fans such as the Delta 120 X 38 @ 130cfm would meet no objection from me, combined with a reobus of course.

I think a high percentage of performance/ OCers water cooling use such medium to high noise fans, but also on a reobus. Allows max cooling on demand, yet modest noise at other times without the need to change fans out, which is a PITA.

Cathar, if I remember right in the thread debatting the EU vs US vs Aus system advantages it was mentioned that dual 120mm fans should be used. I believe the intent was to avoid a never ending situation of one upmanship regarding rad size & fan power. This is my reasoning for urging the ProCooling rig use 2 fans of reasonablly strong pressure and cfm.

But I really would be interested in seeing & hearing about the rad + fans you'd use for a performance rig, yet maintain low noise. In other words, if one were to choose low-noise & high-performance as the 2 from 3. Means a exterior soulution, but I'd rather go with that anyway.

[Cathar]

Well I'm not quite sure what's being measured here either. What are we trying to measure, and for those submitting equipment, what is it they are trying to prove?

Even for the "BA" radiators like I mentioned, indeed, they would require at least a pair of ~70-80CFM 38mm fans running at full chop to meet the needs of a balls-out overclocker by keeping the water at 3-4C above ambient when overclocking, but by the same token I could send my smaller single radiator with a single 70-80CFM 38mm fan and it will come close to fitting that bill as well with it normally keeping water temps within 5-6C of ambient when overclocking hard.

I guess that I personally see this "challenge" more as an opportunity to dispel a few notions about having to use noisy fans at all, and that such is achievable with off-the-shelf parts - for which once that is shown there will no doubt be the inevitable commercial rush to source and push such onto the wider marketplace.

I see this challenge as an opportunity to show that it is possible to "have it all", or at least have it to point where gunning for more is somewhate futile. The radiators and fan noise, IMO, is the last great stumbling block (barring an individual's installation ignorance) in the quest for the holy-grail of water-cooling bliss.

At least that's how I would personally approach the configuration of any equipment that I would submit for this challenge since that's what I see is the real issue here that needs to be proved. High-flow vs low-flow is really a function of pumping power and component restriction, and then choosing the right tubing size to fit the scenario. To me, that's fairly obvious and the hi/lo flow nature of the challenge is really about whether or not someone can artificially restrict the system-wide flow due to poor choice of pump or tubing size and largely get away with it. To a certain degree you can for smallish drops in flow-rates and the resultant performance will still be acceptable for many individuals - but we already knew that.

Don't know - the more I think about it - the more I think that we should focus our efforts on pushing the boundaries of water-cooling in the areas that people have identified as being issues (noise being the major one from reading the OCAU poll), rather than attempting to show how some manufacturers are offering kits with potentially poorly matched pumps or tubing. The first serves the community. The second just does said manufacturer's R&D for free for them.

[Blackeagle]

Well, pH has said he's going ot make changes to each set up that he feels will benifit that rig. So he may well change the fans to lower pressure/noise/cfm ones on the US/ProCooling submission. And that's great, makes the testing even more comprehensive and informative.

I think I'm going to look into those Sanyo fans more that Nikhsub1 posted the link for. As Bill points out they need to be checked out to confirm the real performance. But they look good to me, so may give them a try & if pH is interested I'll send a couple out to him.

Cathar,

Would you care to post what the rig you and the others form OCAU are putting up for pH to test? I'd love to hear what you fellas have come up with.

I'm surprised how few members have taken part in this thread, I'd hope'd for a quite a few more.

[psychofunk]

What is a balls out overclocker. I have my XP-M2400 at 207x13 (2691) with 2.1v of juice running through it, prime95 stable at 36c after 20hours and I do it with 2 papst FGL's. I actually swapped them for two Sunon 90cfm fans and the best they could do was make it 2 degrees cooler while adding a crapload of noise, of course my ear is closer to that of cathars friend.

[Cathar]

Originally Posted by Blackeagle

Cathar,

Would you care to post what the rig you and the others form OCAU are putting up for pH to test? I'd love to hear what you fellas have come up with.

While I would supply the parts, I am personally considering myself bound to the choices made by the OCAU voting members, at least as an attempt to avoid me being accused of one-upmanship.

Given their desires I would provide:

Waterblock: Storm CPU waterblock
Poll Analysis: there was no poll for waterblock choice - this is my choice)

Pump: Swiftech MCP650 pump
Poll Analysis: meets ~80% of voter's desires by sitting pretty much mid-way between the two most popular voting options

Tubing: 1/2" ID tubing
Poll Analysis: Meets ~82% of voter's desires

Radiator: "Big Arse" radiator complete with internally baffled shroud
Poll Analysis: 68% voted for either 2 x 120mm radiators or a dual-fanned 120x240mm radiator, with almost twice as many people voting for double-sized radiators over 2 x single 120mm radiators. 10% of voters wanted larger than a 2x120mm radiator config.

Radiator Fans (Option 1): 2 x 120mm Panaflo H1A Fans + Rheobus for the fans
Poll Analysis: covers ~95% of the voter's desires in terms of noise/power.

Radiator Fans (Option 2): 2 x 120mm Panaflo L1A fans.
Poll Analysis: If forced to accept fans with no rheobus, the L1A's would appear to satisfy ~60% of the voters by sitting in the middle of the two most popular fan poll options for power/noise. Roughly 20% wanted something significantly quieter than the L1A's, and roughly 20% were prepared to accept something significantly noisier than the L1A's.

The fan thing really is the main issue of contention with people having to choose between their desires for good water cooling via the radiator, their desires for a compact system via not obscenely large radiators, and their desires for tolerable noise levels.

[Cathar]

Originally Posted by psychofunk

What is a balls out overclocker. I have my XP-M2400 at 207x13 (2691) with 2.1v of juice running through it, prime95 stable at 36c after 20hours and I do it with 2 papst FGL's. I actually swapped them for two Sunon 90cfm fans and the best they could do was make it 2 degrees cooler while adding a crapload of noise, of course my ear is closer to that of cathars friend.

I guess "balls out" would be a person whose primary goal would be to achieve significantly better than very noisy top-end air-cooling overclocks with their water-cooling setup.

2691MHz with an XP-M is about level with top-end air-cooling - but of course it's also dependent upon the CPU. Got two XP-M CPU's here which will happily do 2850MHz Prime95 stable on water-cooling with radiator fannage noise that would be mid-way between the FGL's and the Sunons. I will say that Sunon's are a particularly bad choice though. They are perhaps THE single worst brand of fans that I have EVER heard for making an annoying noise.

[psychofunk]

Man, I am really excited to see what you Australians put together, mostly because I am fanatical about noise and from what you mentioned before you guys are as well. Is the storm your own block (jeez I hope not, that'd be a 2c advantage ).

Hey Big C (that's you Cathar) could you possiblly link the polls, I would be interested to read. I only ask because I really have a tuff time getting to oc.au, I have had the main page loading for 5 minutes now and I got the top blue bar and a couple of place holders.

[Cathar]

Originally Posted by psychofunk

could you possiblly link the polls, I would be interested to read. I only ask because I really have a tuff time getting to oc.au, I have had the main page loading for 5 minutes now and I got the top blue bar and a couple of place holders.

http://forums.overclockers.com.au/sh...hreadid=290240

[Blackeagle]

A very, very nice set up Cathar!

The new Storm block will steal the show! But a great introduction for it.

Combined with the #1 rad option unbeatable.

Man, I'm going to really look forward to seeing the Storms performance.

[Blackeagle]

Originally Posted by Cathar

2691MHz with an XP-M is about level with top-end air-cooling - but of course it's also dependent upon the CPU. Got two XP-M CPU's here which will happily do 2850MHz Prime95 stable on water-cooling with radiator fannage noise that would be mid-way between the FGL's and the Sunons. I will say that Sunon's are a particularly bad choice though. They are perhaps THE single worst brand of fans that I have EVER heard for making an annoying noise.

2850 X 2! Man you're charmed.

I've had mine to 2.8 with loose timings (very) and still unstable. What are your settings to get to 2.85 stable Cathar? And what MB & RAM?

VERY nice O/Cs.

[Cathar]

Originally Posted by Blackeagle

2850 X 2! Man you're charmed.

Two totally different CPU's from two totally different stepping types.

2850MHz is a "safe setting". Really 2888MHz with the XP-M2500+, and 2870MHz with the XP-M2600+.

Peak unstable overclock at room temperature with the XP-M2500+ is this.

Originally Posted by Blackeagle

I've had mine to 2.8 with loose timings (very) and still unstable. What are your settings to get to 2.85 stable Cathar? And what MB & RAM?

Actually I'm somewhat "in between" boards. Am waiting to finish my block development work and stick the Abit AN7 in. Presently using a half-crippled Abit NF7-S Rev 1.2.