what do you think of this? - Page 3

Jim · 03-05-2002, 06:47 AM

Twitchie-
That Chevette core is a perfect size. If I ever figure out a way to NOT add warmed air inside my case and/or reverse air flow I would probably go with one for a new water cool setup. The water block, did you build it?

Now, what can you tell me about "wpcredit" LOL!

Jim

EMC2 · 03-05-2002, 09:53 AM

Go look in the "Overclocking and General Techo Babble" forum for your Wcpredit info

(the Babble part of that forum title is very appropriate in this case)

Jim · 03-05-2002, 12:09 PM

EMC2-
Thanks for the info, how did you know "Babble" was up my alley.

Jim

EMC2 · 03-05-2002, 06:10 PM

Jim - actually I was referring to the post I put over there for you (i.e. my writing). Besides being done shortly after waking up, it was done in a super rush before I had to head off to work

Almost afraid to go read it now that I'm awake, LOL.

Heavy_Equipment · 03-05-2002, 07:58 PM

So...does WPcredit work on heater cores now???? I'm so confused.

Jim · 03-05-2002, 09:12 PM

Heavy Equip-
How exactly did you set up your Chevette heater core with 3 80MM fans?
Jim

Brad · 03-05-2002, 09:49 PM

my guessing is two on one side with a duct from 160x80 to 120x120, then just one on the otherside

Heavy_Equipment · 03-06-2002, 06:12 PM

Actually, it's a work in progress.

The fans are 2 side by side, and one underneath...like an upside down pyramid...all sucking through the rad.

Fan Fan
Fan

My ducting is for 4 fans, and it's partly finished, but it's been on hold for awhile, while I decide on new case/build case/whatever. (OK, and the 10 hour days at work plus 90 minute drive each way is killing my motivation

) On the "to-do" list though. And after 3 different trips down to Infonec in the past couple months (8kha+ RMA runs

), I still forgot to get the 4th fan. ("Cyber Cooler" case fans. Guesstimating 18-20 cfm. Very quiet at 12V, and I had to check them when I tried them at 7V, to make sure they were infact on.lol)

I'm hoping the 4th fan/duct combo, and a switch to AS3 will drop me a couple more C.

I'm at 36C right now with UD Think running...it only hits 40 when I try to "kill" it. (Think, 5 apps of Toast(high priority), and media player>MP3's...my torture test)

Gee...that ought to answer your question. lol

PetDMC · 03-06-2002, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Heavy_Equipment
And after 3 different trips down to Infonec in the past couple months (8kha+ RMA runs )

that's where i bought my Epox 8K7A
was it near PIA?

OT: what was ur 5v with that MB???
mines is around 4.57 :/ but i'm getting ready for a mod

Brad · 03-06-2002, 10:15 PM

heh, hurry up and by the 4th fan :P I seriously doubt AS3 will help that much though

Jim · 03-07-2002, 06:40 AM

Brad-

I used AS 3 on my waterblock, about 3 weeks up and running now, I haven't experienced any bonus temperature drop after a period of running.

Temps are about the same as day one. I notice guys with air cool say the temp drops after about 50 hours of use.

Not here.
Jim

Heavy_Equipment · 03-07-2002, 06:16 PM

Pet,
Ok, maybe I'm just tired...but what is PIA???

And speak of the devil, Infonec left a message...the 8kha+ (#3) is ready to be picked up...so I'll get the fourth fan tomorrow after work.

Jim,
how does your Western Digital like OC'ing? (assuming you OC, I don't see it in your sig) My 10 gig Fujitsu died with a POP and puff of smoke last week. Big burnt "pimple" in the middle of one of the chips. (2 years old...never ran an UN-OC'ed day in it's life

) I bought the WD Caviar 40 gig, and I had to drop the fsb a couple mhz afterwards, just to keep it happy.

PetDMC · 03-07-2002, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Heavy_Equipment
Ok, maybe I'm just tired...but what is PIA Pet???

PIA= Pearson International Airport

Heavy_Equipment · 03-07-2002, 06:32 PM

Told you I was tired... lol

No, I go to the Markham store. I'm up on the east side of Lake Simcoe, just for reference.

PetDMC · 03-07-2002, 06:49 PM

oh kool

Brad · 03-08-2002, 03:31 AM

I don't beleive that 50 hour thing either, it is feasible for a small decrease in temps, but nothing actually worthwhile

EMC2 · 03-08-2002, 07:58 PM

HeavyEquip - the Barracuda IVs will take all the FSB you can throw at them (200 verified). The Maxtor DX740s are known good into the 180 range. No good info yet on the new IBM 120GXPs.

<edit-dumb typo>

Brad · 03-08-2002, 08:37 PM

normally its the hdd controller that craps out before the hdd

EMC2 · 03-08-2002, 09:46 PM

Brad - notice in Heavy's case, he had to back off from a previously known good point with a new hard drive (i.e. his controller was verified to run at a higher rate than his drive would). In general, more recent HD controller ASICs will handle very high PCI bus speeds.

Brad · 03-09-2002, 01:40 AM

yeah, just use promise raid controllers, most are 66mhz pci

Heavy_Equipment · 03-10-2002, 04:22 PM

The fujitsu hummed along nicely at 195 mhz. Only problem I had with my system at that speed was using 1/5th PCI divider caused a HUGE memory bandwidth hit. I get much higher memory scores at 166x10.5x1/4 divider, than 194x9x1/5, and that's comparing same memory timing(SLOW). (I can't find my notes from the testing, but it's approximately 2200/1800 vs. 1900/1500 on the newest Sandra-buffered) At 166 I can get aggressive with this Micron, which increases my scores as well obviously(2482/2106), so the lower FSB works better for me anyway. I liked the bragging rights that 195x9, or 200x8.5 etc. gave me for awhile, but overall, my performance wasn't peaking.

Geez, long winded AGAIN. lol Yes, my HDD controller is reliable to 200mhz.

Sorry for straying WAY off topic guys.

Heavy_Equipment · 03-10-2002, 04:26 PM

Oh yeah...at those really high speeds, my system ran 5C hotter too, so that's one more strike against 200 mhz in my book lol.

EMC2 · 03-10-2002, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Geez, long winded AGAIN

I don't know anyone else that does that around here

If you were using the 1/5 PCI divider, then your IDE interface wasn't being pushed as hard as you are at 166 and 1/4 (40 vs 41.5). Won't the IWill allow you to use the 1/4 divider above 166?

And HTH is the PCI divider affecting your memory bandwidth? (especially since your core speed was about the same)

* wonders about the IWill board * :shrug:

Heavy_Equipment · 03-10-2002, 06:40 PM

My NIC and geforce2 MX can't handle anymore mhz,(41.5 and 83 mhz) so that's why I'm capped there, but yes, I can choose any divider at any speed, hardware permitting. Also my AXP is giving me all it's got at 1749.(at this temp anyway...I've gone faster on a cold night with the window open)

Ironic that I ended up back at 10.5 multi to get my ideal clock/fsb/pci, as that's the default.

As for the divider/memory bandwidth issue...it beats the hell outta me.
It is a known issue though,(Amdmb forums>Iwill) and it's rumoured to be resolved in a future bios. (Hmm, rumoured Epox 8KHA+ dividers too...this is me NOT holding my breath)

Also ironic, that I switched to the XP333 because of the divider, only to end up using 1/4.

It still baffles me though...CPU, DDR, AGP = Northbridge,
PCI, IDE, USB, Sound = Southbridge.
...how they are related via pci divider makes no obvious sense to me, but I speculate, (and I'm not in the mobo business, so I could be wrong) that the chipset communicates over the PCI bus, and some sort of bottleneck is occuring/getting more apparant with the bigger speed difference.

That hurt my head.

EMC2 · 03-10-2002, 07:10 PM

The NB and SB communicate over a special V-Link for the KT chip sets, not over the PCI bus (there isn't a PCI bus connection on the KT-266(A) NB).

Sandra's membench causes no HD activity or other NB<->SB communications to occur and any "background" activity wouldn't affect your membenches THAT much.

Sounds almost like IWill is either a) backing off the memory latency timings severely when you go to the 1/5 divider or b) they are setting the memory to run at the -33Mhz setting (the memory can run synchronously to the FSB frequency or asynchronously at +33 or -33Mhz to the FSB frequency) or c) both. From going back and relooking at the scores you posted, I would have to say either b or c.

If you know how to use Wcpredit, take a screen shot with the 1/5 divider turned on and the FSB at anything over 166Mhz and post it up and I'll be able to tell you what's really going on there

03-05-2002, 09:53 AM	#52
EMC2 Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dark Side of the Moon Posts: 365	Hey Jim! Go look in the "Overclocking and General Techo Babble" forum for your Wcpredit info (the Babble part of that forum title is very appropriate in this case)

03-05-2002, 06:10 PM	#54
EMC2 Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dark Side of the Moon Posts: 365	NOT a morning person Jim - actually I was referring to the post I put over there for you (i.e. my writing). Besides being done shortly after waking up, it was done in a super rush before I had to head off to work Almost afraid to go read it now that I'm awake, LOL.

03-05-2002, 09:49 PM	#57
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	my guessing is two on one side with a duct from 160x80 to 120x120, then just one on the otherside __________________ 2x P3 1100's at 1400, Abit VP6, 2x Corsair 256mb PC150 sticks, 20gb 'cuda ATA-III, 2x 40gb 'cuda ATA-IV in raid 0. 20" Trinitron. No fans 2x 2400+ at 2288mhz (16.0 x 143), Iwill MPX2, 2x Kingmax PC-3200 256mb sticks, 4x 20gb 60gxp in Raid 5 on a Promise SX6000. Asus Ti4200 320/630. Cooled by Water

03-06-2002, 06:12 PM	#58
Heavy_Equipment Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Newmarket, Ontario, Canada Posts: 282	Actually, it's a work in progress. The fans are 2 side by side, and one underneath...like an upside down pyramid...all sucking through the rad. Fan Fan Fan My ducting is for 4 fans, and it's partly finished, but it's been on hold for awhile, while I decide on new case/build case/whatever. (OK, and the 10 hour days at work plus 90 minute drive each way is killing my motivation ) On the "to-do" list though. And after 3 different trips down to Infonec in the past couple months (8kha+ RMA runs ), I still forgot to get the 4th fan. ("Cyber Cooler" case fans. Guesstimating 18-20 cfm. Very quiet at 12V, and I had to check them when I tried them at 7V, to make sure they were infact on.lol) I'm hoping the 4th fan/duct combo, and a switch to AS3 will drop me a couple more C. I'm at 36C right now with UD Think running...it only hits 40 when I try to "kill" it. (Think, 5 apps of Toast(high priority), and media player>MP3's...my torture test) Gee...that ought to answer your question. lol Last edited by Heavy_Equipment; 03-06-2002 at 06:15 PM.

03-06-2002, 10:15 PM	#60
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	heh, hurry up and by the 4th fan :P I seriously doubt AS3 will help that much though __________________ 2x P3 1100's at 1400, Abit VP6, 2x Corsair 256mb PC150 sticks, 20gb 'cuda ATA-III, 2x 40gb 'cuda ATA-IV in raid 0. 20" Trinitron. No fans 2x 2400+ at 2288mhz (16.0 x 143), Iwill MPX2, 2x Kingmax PC-3200 256mb sticks, 4x 20gb 60gxp in Raid 5 on a Promise SX6000. Asus Ti4200 320/630. Cooled by Water

03-05-2002, 06:47 AM	#51
Jim Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Illinois Posts: 389	Twitchie- That Chevette core is a perfect size. If I ever figure out a way to NOT add warmed air inside my case and/or reverse air flow I would probably go with one for a new water cool setup. The water block, did you build it? Now, what can you tell me about "wpcredit" LOL! Jim

03-05-2002, 12:09 PM	#53
Jim Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Illinois Posts: 389	EMC2- Thanks for the info, how did you know "Babble" was up my alley. Jim

03-05-2002, 07:58 PM	#55
Heavy_Equipment Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Newmarket, Ontario, Canada Posts: 282	So...does WPcredit work on heater cores now???? I'm so confused.

03-05-2002, 09:12 PM	#56
Jim Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Illinois Posts: 389	Heavy Equip- How exactly did you set up your Chevette heater core with 3 80MM fans? Jim

03-07-2002, 06:40 AM	#61
Jim Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Illinois Posts: 389	Brad- I used AS 3 on my waterblock, about 3 weeks up and running now, I haven't experienced any bonus temperature drop after a period of running. Temps are about the same as day one. I notice guys with air cool say the temp drops after about 50 hours of use. Not here. Jim

03-07-2002, 06:16 PM	#62
Heavy_Equipment Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Newmarket, Ontario, Canada Posts: 282	Pet, Ok, maybe I'm just tired...but what is PIA??? And speak of the devil, Infonec left a message...the 8kha+ (#3) is ready to be picked up...so I'll get the fourth fan tomorrow after work. Jim, how does your Western Digital like OC'ing? (assuming you OC, I don't see it in your sig) My 10 gig Fujitsu died with a POP and puff of smoke last week. Big burnt "pimple" in the middle of one of the chips. (2 years old...never ran an UN-OC'ed day in it's life ) I bought the WD Caviar 40 gig, and I had to drop the fsb a couple mhz afterwards, just to keep it happy. Last edited by Heavy_Equipment; 03-07-2002 at 06:26 PM.

03-07-2002, 06:32 PM	#64
Heavy_Equipment Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Newmarket, Ontario, Canada Posts: 282	Told you I was tired... lol No, I go to the Markham store. I'm up on the east side of Lake Simcoe, just for reference.

03-07-2002, 06:49 PM	#65
PetDMC Cooling Savant Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 109	oh kool

03-08-2002, 03:31 AM	#66
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	I don't beleive that 50 hour thing either, it is feasible for a small decrease in temps, but nothing actually worthwhile __________________ 2x P3 1100's at 1400, Abit VP6, 2x Corsair 256mb PC150 sticks, 20gb 'cuda ATA-III, 2x 40gb 'cuda ATA-IV in raid 0. 20" Trinitron. No fans 2x 2400+ at 2288mhz (16.0 x 143), Iwill MPX2, 2x Kingmax PC-3200 256mb sticks, 4x 20gb 60gxp in Raid 5 on a Promise SX6000. Asus Ti4200 320/630. Cooled by Water

03-08-2002, 07:58 PM	#67
EMC2 Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dark Side of the Moon Posts: 365	HeavyEquip - the Barracuda IVs will take all the FSB you can throw at them (200 verified). The Maxtor DX740s are known good into the 180 range. No good info yet on the new IBM 120GXPs. <edit-dumb typo> Last edited by EMC2; 03-08-2002 at 09:43 PM.

03-08-2002, 08:37 PM	#68
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	normally its the hdd controller that craps out before the hdd __________________ 2x P3 1100's at 1400, Abit VP6, 2x Corsair 256mb PC150 sticks, 20gb 'cuda ATA-III, 2x 40gb 'cuda ATA-IV in raid 0. 20" Trinitron. No fans 2x 2400+ at 2288mhz (16.0 x 143), Iwill MPX2, 2x Kingmax PC-3200 256mb sticks, 4x 20gb 60gxp in Raid 5 on a Promise SX6000. Asus Ti4200 320/630. Cooled by Water

03-08-2002, 09:46 PM	#69
EMC2 Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dark Side of the Moon Posts: 365	Brad - notice in Heavy's case, he had to back off from a previously known good point with a new hard drive (i.e. his controller was verified to run at a higher rate than his drive would). In general, more recent HD controller ASICs will handle very high PCI bus speeds.

03-09-2002, 01:40 AM	#70
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	yeah, just use promise raid controllers, most are 66mhz pci __________________ 2x P3 1100's at 1400, Abit VP6, 2x Corsair 256mb PC150 sticks, 20gb 'cuda ATA-III, 2x 40gb 'cuda ATA-IV in raid 0. 20" Trinitron. No fans 2x 2400+ at 2288mhz (16.0 x 143), Iwill MPX2, 2x Kingmax PC-3200 256mb sticks, 4x 20gb 60gxp in Raid 5 on a Promise SX6000. Asus Ti4200 320/630. Cooled by Water

03-10-2002, 04:22 PM	#71
Heavy_Equipment Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Newmarket, Ontario, Canada Posts: 282	The fujitsu hummed along nicely at 195 mhz. Only problem I had with my system at that speed was using 1/5th PCI divider caused a HUGE memory bandwidth hit. I get much higher memory scores at 166x10.5x1/4 divider, than 194x9x1/5, and that's comparing same memory timing(SLOW). (I can't find my notes from the testing, but it's approximately 2200/1800 vs. 1900/1500 on the newest Sandra-buffered) At 166 I can get aggressive with this Micron, which increases my scores as well obviously(2482/2106), so the lower FSB works better for me anyway. I liked the bragging rights that 195x9, or 200x8.5 etc. gave me for awhile, but overall, my performance wasn't peaking. Geez, long winded AGAIN. lol Yes, my HDD controller is reliable to 200mhz. Sorry for straying WAY off topic guys.

03-10-2002, 04:26 PM	#72
Heavy_Equipment Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Newmarket, Ontario, Canada Posts: 282	Oh yeah...at those really high speeds, my system ran 5C hotter too, so that's one more strike against 200 mhz in my book lol.

03-10-2002, 06:40 PM	#74
Heavy_Equipment Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Newmarket, Ontario, Canada Posts: 282	My NIC and geforce2 MX can't handle anymore mhz,(41.5 and 83 mhz) so that's why I'm capped there, but yes, I can choose any divider at any speed, hardware permitting. Also my AXP is giving me all it's got at 1749.(at this temp anyway...I've gone faster on a cold night with the window open) Ironic that I ended up back at 10.5 multi to get my ideal clock/fsb/pci, as that's the default. As for the divider/memory bandwidth issue...it beats the hell outta me. It is a known issue though,(Amdmb forums>Iwill) and it's rumoured to be resolved in a future bios. (Hmm, rumoured Epox 8KHA+ dividers too...this is me NOT holding my breath) Also ironic, that I switched to the XP333 because of the divider, only to end up using 1/4. It still baffles me though...CPU, DDR, AGP = Northbridge, PCI, IDE, USB, Sound = Southbridge. ...how they are related via pci divider makes no obvious sense to me, but I speculate, (and I'm not in the mobo business, so I could be wrong) that the chipset communicates over the PCI bus, and some sort of bottleneck is occuring/getting more apparant with the bigger speed difference. That hurt my head.

03-10-2002, 07:10 PM	#75
EMC2 Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dark Side of the Moon Posts: 365	Just so your head hurts more >P The NB and SB communicate over a special V-Link for the KT chip sets, not over the PCI bus (there isn't a PCI bus connection on the KT-266(A) NB). Sandra's membench causes no HD activity or other NB<->SB communications to occur and any "background" activity wouldn't affect your membenches THAT much. Sounds almost like IWill is either a) backing off the memory latency timings severely when you go to the 1/5 divider or b) they are setting the memory to run at the -33Mhz setting (the memory can run synchronously to the FSB frequency or asynchronously at +33 or -33Mhz to the FSB frequency) or c) both. From going back and relooking at the scores you posted, I would have to say either b or c. If you know how to use Wcpredit, take a screen shot with the 1/5 divider turned on and the FSB at anything over 166Mhz and post it up and I'll be able to tell you what's really going on there

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