REV. 4.0 and Micro Channel #3 (pics) - Page 3

msv · 04-15-2003, 04:02 AM

Question:
What difference does it make to tilt the grid pattern 45 degrees?
Increased turbulence?
The water still flows exactly like it would in at non-tilted pattern until it leaves the micro-pin area, just tilted 45 degrees.
The first thing that happens when the water enters the WB is that it makes a 90 degree turn when hitting the base (from "above" to "left-and-right"), then flows out between the pins. Every time the flow passes a pin some of it "bends" round the corner and turbulence starts to build up.
OK, no secrets so far.
How does it affect the flow if the grid pattern is tilted?
It looks darned nice, but otherwise?
regards
Mikael S.

hara · 04-15-2003, 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by LiquidRulez
Hmmmmm.......
Sounds like the cats out of the bag!

That's what I'm thinking too

jaydee · 04-15-2003, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by GTA
Isn't it quite a lot cheaper if you're not selling it?

As far as I can tell, you're not selling this block, so it should only cost $80.

Not selling yet. It would be in poor taste to send it to BillA as a DIY'er just to start selling them a few months later.

But I will tell you it will take the right circumstances for me to start selling them which isn't to likely anytime soon for multiple reasons.

MSV: water flows better against a curved surface than it does a flat surface. There is a lot less dead spots with the 45degree pins. And water isn't forced up against the top and bottom sides and is diverted laterally. Hard to explain.....

GTA · 04-15-2003, 12:29 PM

Fair enough, I see your point.

I would suggest e-mailing BillA and seeing what his view on it would be, given that you say you wouldn't be able to start selling them for a reasonable period of time.

I only say this because i think it looks like a great design, and i'd be very interested to see how it performs in comparasion to other blocks.

jaydee · 04-15-2003, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GTA
Fair enough, I see your point.

I would suggest e-mailing BillA and seeing what his view on it would be, given that you say you wouldn't be able to start selling them for a reasonable period of time.

I only say this because i think it looks like a great design, and i'd be very interested to see how it performs in comparasion to other blocks.

I also don't want to pay $80 just for BillA to tell me how good my own block is.

In other news I broke my Epox board. Now looking for a newer board with a decent probe reader, but is there such a thing? Also building a die simulator. Not sure which one I want to throw money at just yet. I am stuck with a ECS K7S5A now which is not the most desirable board for what I am doing. I need a board that can OC well and have the in chip diode reader that isn't to far off. Bah....

bigben2k · 04-15-2003, 12:50 PM

Is the board recoverable?

jaydee · 04-15-2003, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bigben2k
Is the board recoverable?

Nope. I now have a stack of 3 Epox 8K7A's that are dead. It is real wierd. They all worked great for a year+ 24/7 and then i shut it off and they will not fire up again. You hit the power switch and it does nothing. Switched PS's and nothing. Jumped the green wire to the ground to turn the supply on and it goes right the the FF code. I got 3 boards now that have done this and all 8K7A's. I have a feeling the bios's are shorting out or something. It is weird the power switch will not do anything and it isn't shorting out because the boards are not mounted to anything! :shrug:

Good thing I only paid $35 for these boards.

bigben2k · 04-15-2003, 01:19 PM

Could it be the caps around the CPU regulation circuit?

At $35, I think you got your money's worth, but it wouldn't hurt to try to extract a bit more!

You ought to start a new thread with this, maybe we can come up with something.

jaydee · 04-15-2003, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bigben2k
Could it be the caps around the CPU regulation circuit?

At $35, I think you got your money's worth, but it wouldn't hurt to try to extract a bit more!

You ought to start a new thread with this, maybe we can come up with something.

I am just going to get a new board. The 8K7A's were good boards but the overclocking features are limited now. The multi only goes to 12X and there is only a 1/4 divider. Seriously limits the OC's on new chips. I am thinking about picking up this one:
http://www.epox.org/products/mainboards/8k9ai/ $74 shipped from newegg.com.

Or maybe a ASUS A7N8X Deluxe as they are going for $75 on e-bay, but they are claimed to be OEM. Which doesn't have all the extra gadgets that I don't use anyway.

theetruscan · 04-15-2003, 03:02 PM

OEM means you don't get any of the sound out or stuff, but other than that the only inconvenience from OEM is that you need another computer w/ a CD burner to get drivers onto.

Also, the Asus board won't do sound in Linux.

LiquidRulez · 04-15-2003, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jaydee116
I am just going to get a new board. The 8K7A's were good boards but the overclocking features are limited now. The multi only goes to 12X and there is only a 1/4 divider. Seriously limits the OC's on new chips. I am thinking about picking up this one:
http://www.epox.org/products/mainboards/8k9ai/ $74 shipped from newegg.com.

Or maybe a ASUS A7N8X Deluxe as they are going for $75 on e-bay, but they are claimed to be OEM. Which doesn't have all the extra gadgets that I don't use anyway.

Id go with a new 8Rda3+..........Wish I had waited a few months before I got my 8RDA+, and got one of those!
Why not Go Nforce2 Jaydee?
I know many people have had problems with my board from the start, but for me, I havent had a single problem since I put mine in.......And it rocks!
Only thing I miss having is Vdd adjustment in the BIOS(which the new board now has)

jaydee · 04-15-2003, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LiquidRulez
Id go with a new 8Rda3+..........Wish I had waited a few months before I got my 8RDA+, and got one of those!
Why not Go Nforce2 Jaydee?
I know many people have had problems with my board from the start, but for me, I havent had a single problem since I put mine in.......And it rocks!
Only thing I miss having is Vdd adjustment in the BIOS(which the new board now has)

Cause I am broke.

JFettig · 04-16-2003, 04:06 PM

when your open to suggestions, Ill suggest you a motherboard....

jaydee · 04-16-2003, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JFettig
when your open to suggestions, Ill suggest you a motherboard....

Whatever.

Rayman2k2 · 04-19-2003, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JFettig
when your open to suggestions, Ill suggest you a motherboard....

that was harsh.

jaydee · 04-19-2003, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rayman2k2
that was harsh.

I got a few other names for it other than harsh.

Rayman2k2 · 04-19-2003, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jaydee116
I got a few other names for it other than harsh.

GeniusLoci · 04-29-2003, 03:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by LiquidRulez
Id go with a new 8Rda3+..........Wish I had waited a few months before I got my 8RDA+, and got one of those!
Why not Go Nforce2 Jaydee?
I know many people have had problems with my board from the start, but for me, I havent had a single problem since I put mine in.......And it rocks!
Only thing I miss having is Vdd adjustment in the BIOS(which the new board now has)

But ASUS A7N8X reads the CPU Thermal diode... which is perfect for water blocks testing.

Volenti · 04-29-2003, 03:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by GeniusLoci
But ASUS A7N8X reads the CPU Thermal diode... which is perfect for water blocks testing.

ask billa how "perfect" the CPU thermal diode is for water block testing, mine changed 10 degrees with a single bios update...

Ketchak · 04-29-2003, 05:35 PM

I am proving my A7N8X with three different bios versions and I don't find any variation of significant temperature in the internal diode.

The only variation that I detect is that the reading is erroneous when an Athlon XP is used with palomino core
and with 1003 the temperature of the system is erroneous as well as the temperature of the pwrtemp.

It is possible that the measurement is not
correct one but we do not have very much where to choose exempting
the costly systems of measurement.

I believe that it is a good motherboard to evaluate the performance of our waterblocks.

Ketchak.
www.devilmaster.cjb.net

MadDogMe · 04-30-2003, 03:47 AM

There's no such thing as an accurate mobo diode reader, and Asus are the worst of the lot!

...

My new NF7S is about 5DegC higher than my KX7 was with the same CPU, different mobo but same manufacturer, both have Winbond chips as well. If they can't caliberate a mobo by now!...
Perhaps it's their idea of 'tolerance' that's to blame?, "anywhere within 10DegC of somewhere will do"

...

UnloadeD · 04-30-2003, 11:14 AM

Hey Jay, I'm pretty sure BillA doesn't mind testing blocks at DIY rate as long as the testing is done before any are sold. I'm basing this on some of his comments to Neo. Also "Sponsorship" of DIY blocks is an option. Here are some details. I'd be willing to help out and I'm sure others would be too. I really hope you consider having it tested. Not so much to see how it does against other blocks, but rather to add hard numbers of a new design to our knowledge base.

And for another topic: I really like how your threads turned out on your "plexi" top. I need some pointers on how you did them. Tools used and technique please. I had my first try at it last night and the results were less than spectacular.

peace.
unloaded

jaydee · 04-30-2003, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by UnloadeD
Hey Jay, I'm pretty sure BillA doesn't mind testing blocks at DIY rate as long as the testing is done before any are sold. I'm basing this on some of his comments to Neo. Also "Sponsorship" of DIY blocks is an option. Here are some details. I'd be willing to help out and I'm sure others would be too. I really hope you consider having it tested. Not so much to see how it does against other blocks, but rather to add hard numbers of a new design to our knowledge base.

And for another topic: I really like how your threads turned out on your "plexi" top. I need some pointers on how you did them. Tools used and technique please. I had my first try at it last night and the results were less than spectacular.

peace.
unloaded

Once I get the final one done I will see about getting it tested.

As for the threads in the top I use the laser at work to cut the 7/16" hole for the 1/4"NPT tap and just used the tap and a crecent wrench to make the threads. You go in untill it gets a little hard to turn, then back it all the way out, go back in untill it gets hard to turn again then back it all the way out. Repeat untill your at your desired depth. I always stop short so the barb bottom will not go past the bottom of the hole. Bad things happen if you tourque the barb down to hard and it goes past the bottom of the hole. It will lift the top off the base and either break the seal or even crack the top.

Rayman2k2 · 05-17-2003, 05:50 PM

question for ya Jaydee, how do you attach the plexy to the copper? I see the screw, but do they actually hold in that thin copper?

jaydee · 05-17-2003, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rayman2k2
question for ya Jaydee, how do you attach the plexy to the copper? I see the screw, but do they actually hold in that thin copper?

1/8" is plenty actually. Holdes just fine. Look around your computer case, there are mucho screws in it with less than 1/8" worth of threads.

04-15-2003, 12:50 PM	#56
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Is the board recoverable? __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

04-15-2003, 01:19 PM	#58
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Could it be the caps around the CPU regulation circuit? At $35, I think you got your money's worth, but it wouldn't hurt to try to extract a bit more! You ought to start a new thread with this, maybe we can come up with something. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

04-29-2003, 05:35 PM	#70
Ketchak Cooling Neophyte Join Date: May 2002 Location: Spain Posts: 30	I am proving my A7N8X with three different bios versions and I don't find any variation of significant temperature in the internal diode. The only variation that I detect is that the reading is erroneous when an Athlon XP is used with palomino core and with 1003 the temperature of the system is erroneous as well as the temperature of the pwrtemp. It is possible that the measurement is not correct one but we do not have very much where to choose exempting the costly systems of measurement. I believe that it is a good motherboard to evaluate the performance of our waterblocks. Ketchak. www.devilmaster.cjb.net Last edited by Ketchak; 04-29-2003 at 05:48 PM.

05-17-2003, 05:50 PM	#74
Rayman2k2 Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Annapolis, MD Posts: 190	question for ya Jaydee, how do you attach the plexy to the copper? I see the screw, but do they actually hold in that thin copper? __________________ -Insert Signature Here-

04-15-2003, 04:02 AM	#51
msv Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Sweden Posts: 336	Question: What difference does it make to tilt the grid pattern 45 degrees? Increased turbulence? The water still flows exactly like it would in at non-tilted pattern until it leaves the micro-pin area, just tilted 45 degrees. The first thing that happens when the water enters the WB is that it makes a 90 degree turn when hitting the base (from "above" to "left-and-right"), then flows out between the pins. Every time the flow passes a pin some of it "bends" round the corner and turbulence starts to build up. OK, no secrets so far. How does it affect the flow if the grid pattern is tilted? It looks darned nice, but otherwise? regards Mikael S.

04-15-2003, 12:29 PM	#54
GTA Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: UK - Bristol Posts: 134	Fair enough, I see your point. I would suggest e-mailing BillA and seeing what his view on it would be, given that you say you wouldn't be able to start selling them for a reasonable period of time. I only say this because i think it looks like a great design, and i'd be very interested to see how it performs in comparasion to other blocks.

04-15-2003, 03:02 PM	#60
theetruscan Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: OR/CA/NY Posts: 81	OEM means you don't get any of the sound out or stuff, but other than that the only inconvenience from OEM is that you need another computer w/ a CD burner to get drivers onto. Also, the Asus board won't do sound in Linux.

04-16-2003, 04:06 PM	#63
JFettig Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Willmar MN/Fargo ND Posts: 504	when your open to suggestions, Ill suggest you a motherboard....

04-30-2003, 03:47 AM	#71
MadDogMe Thermophile Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Just shut up ;) ... Posts: 1,068	There's no such thing as an accurate mobo diode reader, and Asus are the worst of the lot! ... My new NF7S is about 5DegC higher than my KX7 was with the same CPU, different mobo but same manufacturer, both have Winbond chips as well. If they can't caliberate a mobo by now!... Perhaps it's their idea of 'tolerance' that's to blame?, "anywhere within 10DegC of somewhere will do" ...

04-30-2003, 11:14 AM	#72
UnloadeD Cooling Savant Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: MidWest USA Posts: 176	Hey Jay, I'm pretty sure BillA doesn't mind testing blocks at DIY rate as long as the testing is done before any are sold. I'm basing this on some of his comments to Neo. Also "Sponsorship" of DIY blocks is an option. Here are some details. I'd be willing to help out and I'm sure others would be too. I really hope you consider having it tested. Not so much to see how it does against other blocks, but rather to add hard numbers of a new design to our knowledge base. And for another topic: I really like how your threads turned out on your "plexi" top. I need some pointers on how you did them. Tools used and technique please. I had my first try at it last night and the results were less than spectacular. peace. unloaded

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