define the relevant topics

[Joe]

Originally posted by pHaestus
What I see in these threads for the most part is the following thought process:

Hmm I wanna test some waterblocks and not get flamed by Jaydee and/or BillA on the internet when I'm done. How do I test them? Hey let's look at Bill's bench testing article; I bet it explains it! Ok this seems reasonable; how much will it cost? Holy mother of god HOW MUCH? Ok I better e-mail Bill and find out if there's a cheaper way. Shit there's NOT? I better make an alliance and a bunch of posts on a forum then. Maybe with enough people involved we can talk this whole cost thing out of existance. Or at least get rid of the error bars.

Hmmm seems the nail on the head has been hit

[Groth]

<begin rant>

Good god, no wonder so few results and useful articles get posted! Is the point of these forums to mock people and revel in your supposed superior knowledge?

Yes, Bill had a wonderful test bench, but do we need to deify him? Is worshipful replication of his testing temple the 'one true path'? Is a test suite with a margin of error larger that of The Perfect One completely useless, or would you prefer to read more of the currently available reviews based on socket thermistor readings?

I read all the frickin' posts with no useful content, and it pisses me off. If something is wrong or inadequate, then explain why! Constructive criticism, analysis, numbers! If you ain't got 'em, then STFU!

And stop throw your damned preconceived notions on everything. Who the hell claimed a test bench could be talked down to free? Why do you think error margins will be glossed over? There'll always be trade-offs between money and accuracy. If you don't like the direction it's headed, say something specific, like "if you spend an extra hundreds buck on XX, you can reduced the error by YY percent."

Either post your own testing results, or help out here, or go away.

<end rant>

I need a drink....

[gone_fishin]

Originally posted by Groth
<begin rant>


Either post your own testing results, or help out here, or go away.

<end rant>

I need a drink....

Everyone is trying to help out. What's wrong with do it right or don't do it at all?

A work group never sets out to establish standards that are poorer than what came before. That's not progress it's called regression and a waste of resources.

[satanicoo]

Are the normal thermometers that we use to measure our own temperature (to check fever and stuff) reliable?

I know they have a low resolution, but if they measure 37.2 degrees, is it 37.2 degrees or they have an error?

[Zhentar]

since one degree fahrenheit is considerably important for our bodies, I would assume they are pretty accurate; but I don't think they'd be suitable here, because of they're designed range; 38C plus or minus 2C is all they need.

[bigben2k]

Originally posted by pHaestus
...

What I see in these threads for the most part is the following thought process:

Hmm I wanna test some waterblocks and not get flamed by Jaydee and/or BillA on the internet when I'm done. How do I test them? Hey let's look at Bill's bench testing article; I bet it explains it! Ok this seems reasonable; how much will it cost? Holy mother of god HOW MUCH? Ok I better e-mail Bill and find out if there's a cheaper way. Shit there's NOT? I better make an alliance and a bunch of posts on a forum then. Maybe with enough people involved we can talk this whole cost thing out of existance. Or at least get rid of the error bars.

...

I definitely understand that you may be used to doing things a certain way, but it doesn't exclude the possibility of doing it another way now does it?

As I stated earlier, even if we got 20 members, there is no way in h*ll that we could reasonably expect each member to fork out $1'000, so that one member can have a test bench of Bill's caliber.

As I also stated, the idea of going with multiple test benches is one of many possible directions, and the one that I envisioned for the WBTA. If you believe that you could start gathering $20'000 in contributions/donations, etc, then go right ahead, but we both know the odds of that happening.

I certainly never made any claims that we would reach Bill's level of testing, but all of us will certainly give it our best shot. It's one of those "ideal goals", a target to shoot for, sort of speak.

As for the cost issue, that's very simply an every day thing. Accuracy still remains the top priority, but cost is definitely close behind. If there is any way that I can trade "putting some time and effort", instead of buying a ready made solution, you can bet that I'm going to consider it: that's just common sense.

[edit]As I also stated (in another thread here), there may be a need for some higher accuracy, strictly for building. From a cost perspective, that leaves me with a possible option of borrowing or renting a tool.[/edit]


Satanicoo: what your real question is, is "Is the resolution related to the accuracy?" and the answer is "no". A meter could have a resolution of +/- 0.1 (i.e. display), but an accuracy of +/- 0.5. That's where it gets interesting, because you have to go over the specifications of the device. Then it extends into "repeatability" and then into "calibration".

[gone_fishin]

This is a slippery fish indeed.

[pHaestus]

Accuracy is basically the product of resolution and calibration.

Stated accuracy on a product spec sheet is what should be possible sans any calibration (out of the box).

Some medical thermometers are presumably pretty accurate: keeping track of a woman's temperature as part of a way to monitor fertility would require a decent accuracy.

Groth: I was quite honestly in the mood to make smart ass comments the other day. Is Bill's data the holy grail? Nope. Does his approach make it harder for testers? Yep. He has assuredly stopped me in my tracks for publishing any test data over the last year or so as I improve my data collection and measurement at the house. Is this a bad thing? To me, no. I would feel bad if myths were perpetuated or if waterblocks were bought and sold based on erroneous data from me. Is this a bad thing to the WBTA? Not so sure. I get the vibe that this is a "good enough" type group.

Don't think that cross calibration will get you where you want to go with cheap gear. Think about this logically. If the error bars are large, and we include them as we correlate the blocks, then what have we gained? Statistics is the one true friend that tells you that your fiance is a whore.