Post your ridiculous wc marketing here! - Page 4

Zhentar · 05-16-2003, 12:55 PM

I'll give that site this.. their right, we aren't cooling a V8! This is a CPU, we don't have room for that kind of temperature range; we need it as close to ambient as possible; the V8 will work fine at very high temperatures.

And they got a second thing right too! 30 grams IS light enough to ship installed!

wow lets all go buy their craptacular system now!

bigben2k · 05-16-2003, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zhentar
...craptacular ...

Did you come up with that? I like it, it's catchy!

Zhentar · 05-16-2003, 02:36 PM

I don't think I did, but I've been using it so long, who knows?

hara · 05-23-2003, 02:48 PM

Quote:

BTMS replaces all Water Blocks. CPU temperature reductions of 10% to 40% are immediate when converting to a Blue Thermal Management System. CPU temperatures may be even lower depending on models utilized and circumstances. We recommend specific models for all AMD and Intel family of products. Please review-testing page for an AMD 1800 and 950 Duron. Controlled CPU temperature performance is improved using our complete Thermal System, which includes a Tank/Pump and Radiator that are specifically designed to operate with BTMS.

BTMS is designed to prevent a CPU from instant heat failure, therefore allowing time to shut down electronics if any part of the cooling system fails. Saves a CPU replacement cost.

Conventional liquid cooling systems DO NOT have fail-safe capability, which causes CPU heat failure in seconds. Only BTMS has semiconductor heat safety measures Built-In.

Temperature probe opening in base of BTMS allows direct CPU contact to measure temperature. A majority of motherboards do not display the correct CPU temperatures.

Anchors are universal motherboard attachments installed around socket area for securing a BTMS. The Anchors allow custom screws for exact pressure applied for maximum thermal contact and performance. Motherboards should NOT have to be removed. Some boards may not be compatible.

BTMS installed in less than 20-minutes. BlueCooling products are manufactured with the highest industrial zero tolerance standards.

[H] review here: http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MzI5

Site: http://www.bluecooling.com/index_splash.htm

jaydee · 05-23-2003, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hara
[H] review here: http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MzI5

That thing is junk. I can't belive they wasted money on getting it patented. And did you see the seal up job on it? And they anozided the inside? Props to [H] for good pics!

hara · 05-23-2003, 04:45 PM

You can patent your own feces nowadays.

Yeah, the pics speak for themselves

The review really contrasts with the manufacturer's claims.

Quote:

Arguably, we have proven that any TEC/Water Block design is also replaceable with a BTMS with increased cooling performance. The immediate decrease in the CPU’s temperature of 10% to 40% using a Blue Thermal Management System (BTMS) is base on our testing.

Does this mean that we now get subambient temps?

bigben2k · 05-23-2003, 05:20 PM

Yikes ! That was scary, and I mean both the pics, and BTMS' reply in the article!

There's a company that knows nothing about watercooling! They even claim that there's no benefit of using copper over Alu!

winewood · 05-23-2003, 05:54 PM

You guys have very small memories. I talked with the owner of bluecooling and KYLE. This was a prototype, sent to kyle to make suggestions for a final version. Kyle trashed them and the BTMS after they refused to pay for his "marketing".

edit: btw, Kyle acknowledged that he knows its a prototype. I asked if he was going to change or add the comment that this was one. He refused.

Since87 · 05-23-2003, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hara

Does this mean that we now get subambient temps?

Of course it does.

The literature for the blocks says:

"CPU temperature reductions of 10% to 40% are immediate when converting to a Blue Thermal Management System."

A statement like this doesn't make any sense unless they are referencing these percentages to absolute zero.

So using the Kelvin temperature scale, (which is referenced to absolute zero) if I have a CPU temperature of 323 *K (50 *C), and I only get the 10% reduction, then I'll have a CPU temperature of 291 *K (18 *C).

Better yet, if I get a 40% reduction in CPU temperature, the CPU will be running at a chilly -79C.

Where do I order these?

satanicoo · 05-23-2003, 06:43 PM

Prometeia?? Vasetech???? ROFLMAO!

bigben2k · 05-24-2003, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by winewood
You guys have very small memories. I talked with the owner of bluecooling and KYLE. This was a prototype, sent to kyle to make suggestions for a final version. Kyle trashed them and the BTMS after they refused to pay for his "marketing".

edit: btw, Kyle acknowledged that he knows its a prototype. I asked if he was going to change or add the comment that this was one. He refused.

I didn't forget.

The claims are still outrageous, and they clearly showed that they know nothing about water cooling.

winewood · 05-24-2003, 12:17 PM

What you guys may not know that the BTMS was designed ONLY to run with a TEC. It was never meant to run without one. Although Kyle ran it with a in the waterblock roundup with ITS TEC PLATE ON and no TEC. Sub-ambient temps? Sure... thats what its for when used as it was designed.
I never said they didn't make some stupid claims, however I would hope that the "more learn-ed" critical would bother to be quasi-informed before heaping it on.
Since87 ...

im sure thats exactly what the meant

Jaydee, I worked in an AC shop that anodizes parts for Navy ships. Anodization lowers corrosion effects, and does not subtract from thermal properties.

8-Ball · 05-24-2003, 01:09 PM

Actually, winewood, anodising DOES affect thermal properties, since Alumina has a lower thermal conductivity than aluminium. However the thickness of the alumina produced by anodising is so thin that difference is minimal.

But this is not the same as saying it doesn't subtract from thermal properties.

As for the BTMS, we have crossed paths on this before, and while you pursuaded me to be a little more open minded in my "appraisal", I'm not sure the same will happen the second time round.

Might I ask what your personal interest is in this product as you seem to be the only person who will still be defending it even when people have outlined its many weaknesses.

I also understand that this is a prototype, and an updated version may have a better quality of construction, and use copper in place of aluminium, but it is the design concept which is more at fault than the construction materials.

Why is the design a problem? There is one significant flaw in the design, and I will try and address this.

Firstly, an understanding of the operation of a TEC is necessary. (For the benefit of those who aren't sure)

TEC's work by transferring thermal energy from one side of the unit to the other. This is a very inefficient process and requires a large power input from a psu.

When studying the "rating" of a peltier, you will be given a Qmax and deltaTmax.

Qmax - the maximum thermal energy which the peltier can dissipate. This will occur at ZERO degrees temperature difference between the cold side and the hot side.

deltaTmax - this is the maximum temperature difference attainable by the peltier, and will occur with ZERO heat load on the unit.

Neither of these cases is realistic, and we will always be operating somewhere between the two.

So for a given TEC, the lower the heat load, the greater the temperature differential between the hot side and the cold side.

Here in lies the problem.

With this design, there is a large array of fins attached to the cold side of the TEC. Why is this a problem?

This means that the TEC can draw heat away from the ambient air in addition to the heat from the processor, if the cold side gets to much below ambient. The lower the temp of the cold plate below ambient, the more heat will be transferred from the air, and the lower the temperature difference across the TEC, since the heat load is increased.

The result of this is that the cold side is unlikely to get much below ambient temperature. Chances are, it will, but not by much.

However, this will cause condensation to occur on the fins, which will drip straight onto the graphics card when the computer is switched off.

Essentially, it is a VERY inefficient way of using a VERY inefficient heat pump.

8-ball

winewood · 05-24-2003, 01:47 PM

8-ball... once again you convey yourself very well. That kind of criticism is very professional. I really don't know how it performs. I do not know if its a winner or looser. Having seen this article a year ago, considering the source, and false representations, and have yet to see anything come to market as they claimed already was. I have to wonder. Perhaps this is vaporware? I just noticed the comments about sub-ambient, and anodising. Sub amb. was explainable. Criticism has its place, but frankly the anodising loss is better related to a gram of ice on a hotplate, or teflon on a skillet. It's not a big enough difference to say it BS in marketing, although notable to say it has a .02 degree difference, laughable to only a troll. If pointing out lame or uneducated jabs makes me president of the company, I wish to criticise Microsoft and Citigroup as well.

Perhaps Jaydee can enlighten us as to the horrid nature of anodizing the inside of an alu block... LOL

satanicoo · 05-24-2003, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by winewood
What you guys may not know that the BTMS was designed ONLY to run with a TEC. It was never meant to run without one.

Wait a moment. It has already have a TEC right?
Does that mean it will cool a TEC with a TEC?
Double sandwish TEC?

Cyco-Dude · 05-24-2003, 06:04 PM

it only has 1 tec. its WB, TEC, baseplate w/ fins.

jaydee · 05-24-2003, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by winewood
Perhaps Jaydee can enlighten us as to the horrid nature of anodizing the inside of an alu block... LOL

Perhaps you can knock off your do-gooder wanabe BS off and quite trying to attack me for poitning out the flaws eh? Is aluminum that good to use in the first place anodized or not? If you want to nit pick my every post I am up for it dude. Your only going to do more harm than good.

Is this thing not a total POS? Sorry dude the evidence is pretty overwhelming. Sorry to have be realistic and truthfull and not hide behind a mistical world theory where everyone is perfect.

airspirit · 05-24-2003, 07:09 PM

Struck down by the cooling God ... hehe. That thing IS a piece of shiz, tho.

jaydee · 05-24-2003, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by airspirit
Struck down by the cooling God ... hehe. That thing IS a piece of shiz, tho.

Just for clarification, that is a stock title of the forum. It was not chosen by me.

hara · 05-24-2003, 07:19 PM

Ok, so if it was **just** a prototype, why all the hype? Why the BS responses to Kyle? I remember going to their site just after the review and seeing all the crap. They removed the crap shortly afterwords.

winewood · 05-24-2003, 09:06 PM

dunno...
I just know the Bluecooling guy said it was a prototype, and Kyle acknowledged that it was as well later in email. I guess they were going to open up shop selling that thing?? Maybe the site was a rough draft...? I guess the moral of the story is who cares.

Jaydee... if you didn't like the aluminum just say so.. LOL

jaydee · 05-24-2003, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by winewood
dunno...
I just know the Bluecooling guy said it was a prototype, and Kyle acknowledged that it was as well later in email. I guess they were going to open up shop selling that thing?? Maybe the site was a rough draft...? I guess the moral of the story is who cares. Jaydee... if you didn't like the aluminum just say so.. LOL

Will do next time.

jaydee · 05-27-2003, 10:46 PM

I don't think this was posted yet:
http://www.compgeeks.com/details.asp...=WATERCOOL-KIT

Woot!

pHaestus · 05-27-2003, 10:50 PM

Is that the Senfu kit?

jaydee · 05-27-2003, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pHaestus
Is that the Senfu kit?

I don't know, can't read Japanees. Would be nice if they said who made it at least.

05-23-2003, 05:20 PM	#82
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Yikes ! That was scary, and I mean both the pics, and BTMS' reply in the article! There's a company that knows nothing about watercooling! They even claim that there's no benefit of using copper over Alu! __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

05-23-2003, 05:54 PM	#83
winewood Cooling Savant Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: in my chair Posts: 574	You guys have very small memories. I talked with the owner of bluecooling and KYLE. This was a prototype, sent to kyle to make suggestions for a final version. Kyle trashed them and the BTMS after they refused to pay for his "marketing". edit: btw, Kyle acknowledged that he knows its a prototype. I asked if he was going to change or add the comment that this was one. He refused. __________________ -winewood- Last edited by winewood; 05-23-2003 at 06:21 PM.

05-24-2003, 12:17 PM	#87
winewood Cooling Savant Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: in my chair Posts: 574	What you guys may not know that the BTMS was designed ONLY to run with a TEC. It was never meant to run without one. Although Kyle ran it with a in the waterblock roundup with ITS TEC PLATE ON and no TEC. Sub-ambient temps? Sure... thats what its for when used as it was designed. I never said they didn't make some stupid claims, however I would hope that the "more learn-ed" critical would bother to be quasi-informed before heaping it on. Since87 ... im sure thats exactly what the meant Jaydee, I worked in an AC shop that anodizes parts for Navy ships. Anodization lowers corrosion effects, and does not subtract from thermal properties. __________________ -winewood- Last edited by winewood; 05-24-2003 at 12:33 PM.

05-24-2003, 01:09 PM	#88
8-Ball Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Oxford University, UK Posts: 452	Actually, winewood, anodising DOES affect thermal properties, since Alumina has a lower thermal conductivity than aluminium. However the thickness of the alumina produced by anodising is so thin that difference is minimal. But this is not the same as saying it doesn't subtract from thermal properties. As for the BTMS, we have crossed paths on this before, and while you pursuaded me to be a little more open minded in my "appraisal", I'm not sure the same will happen the second time round. Might I ask what your personal interest is in this product as you seem to be the only person who will still be defending it even when people have outlined its many weaknesses. I also understand that this is a prototype, and an updated version may have a better quality of construction, and use copper in place of aluminium, but it is the design concept which is more at fault than the construction materials. Why is the design a problem? There is one significant flaw in the design, and I will try and address this. Firstly, an understanding of the operation of a TEC is necessary. (For the benefit of those who aren't sure) TEC's work by transferring thermal energy from one side of the unit to the other. This is a very inefficient process and requires a large power input from a psu. When studying the "rating" of a peltier, you will be given a Qmax and deltaTmax. Qmax - the maximum thermal energy which the peltier can dissipate. This will occur at ZERO degrees temperature difference between the cold side and the hot side. deltaTmax - this is the maximum temperature difference attainable by the peltier, and will occur with ZERO heat load on the unit. Neither of these cases is realistic, and we will always be operating somewhere between the two. So for a given TEC, the lower the heat load, the greater the temperature differential between the hot side and the cold side. Here in lies the problem. With this design, there is a large array of fins attached to the cold side of the TEC. Why is this a problem? This means that the TEC can draw heat away from the ambient air in addition to the heat from the processor, if the cold side gets to much below ambient. The lower the temp of the cold plate below ambient, the more heat will be transferred from the air, and the lower the temperature difference across the TEC, since the heat load is increased. The result of this is that the cold side is unlikely to get much below ambient temperature. Chances are, it will, but not by much. However, this will cause condensation to occur on the fins, which will drip straight onto the graphics card when the computer is switched off. Essentially, it is a VERY inefficient way of using a VERY inefficient heat pump. 8-ball __________________ For those who believe that water needs to travel slowly through the radiator for optimum performance, read the following thread. READ ALL OF THIS!!!!

05-24-2003, 01:47 PM	#89
winewood Cooling Savant Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: in my chair Posts: 574	8-ball... once again you convey yourself very well. That kind of criticism is very professional. I really don't know how it performs. I do not know if its a winner or looser. Having seen this article a year ago, considering the source, and false representations, and have yet to see anything come to market as they claimed already was. I have to wonder. Perhaps this is vaporware? I just noticed the comments about sub-ambient, and anodising. Sub amb. was explainable. Criticism has its place, but frankly the anodising loss is better related to a gram of ice on a hotplate, or teflon on a skillet. It's not a big enough difference to say it BS in marketing, although notable to say it has a .02 degree difference, laughable to only a troll. If pointing out lame or uneducated jabs makes me president of the company, I wish to criticise Microsoft and Citigroup as well. Perhaps Jaydee can enlighten us as to the horrid nature of anodizing the inside of an alu block... LOL __________________ -winewood-

05-16-2003, 12:55 PM	#76
Zhentar Cooling Savant Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 225	I'll give that site this.. their right, we aren't cooling a V8! This is a CPU, we don't have room for that kind of temperature range; we need it as close to ambient as possible; the V8 will work fine at very high temperatures. And they got a second thing right too! 30 grams IS light enough to ship installed! wow lets all go buy their craptacular system now!

05-16-2003, 02:36 PM	#78
Zhentar Cooling Savant Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 225	I don't think I did, but I've been using it so long, who knows?

05-23-2003, 06:43 PM	#85
satanicoo Cooling Savant Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: portugal Posts: 635	Prometeia?? Vasetech???? ROFLMAO!

05-24-2003, 06:04 PM	#91
Cyco-Dude Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dayton, Ohio Posts: 836	it only has 1 tec. its WB, TEC, baseplate w/ fins.

05-24-2003, 07:09 PM	#93
airspirit Been /.'d... have you? Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,986	Struck down by the cooling God ... hehe. That thing IS a piece of shiz, tho. __________________ #!/bin/sh {who;} {last;} {pause;} {grep;} {touch;} {unzip;} mount /dev/girl -t {wet;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} echo yes yes yes {yes;} umount {/dev/girl;zip;} rm -rf {wet.spot;} {sleep;} finger: permission denied

05-24-2003, 07:19 PM	#95
hara Cooling Savant Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Malta, Mediterranean Posts: 662	Ok, so if it was just a prototype, why all the hype? Why the BS responses to Kyle? I remember going to their site just after the review and seeing all the crap. They removed the crap shortly afterwords. __________________ - Every great HD crash day is the day before back-up day. - My Past System - "Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven." - Milton, Paradise Lost. - FMZ

05-24-2003, 09:06 PM	#96
winewood Cooling Savant Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: in my chair Posts: 574	dunno... I just know the Bluecooling guy said it was a prototype, and Kyle acknowledged that it was as well later in email. I guess they were going to open up shop selling that thing?? Maybe the site was a rough draft...? I guess the moral of the story is who cares. Jaydee... if you didn't like the aluminum just say so.. LOL __________________ -winewood-

05-27-2003, 10:46 PM	#98
jaydee Put up or Shut Up Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 6,506	I don't think this was posted yet: http://www.compgeeks.com/details.asp...=WATERCOOL-KIT Woot!

05-27-2003, 10:50 PM	#99
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	Is that the Senfu kit?

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