New dangerden block - Page 4

pHaestus · 11-05-2003, 01:16 PM

His quotes in that thread and then the ones on page one of this one look pretty much like that's what happened. The block does look different from the WW though to me and so I don't see a huge deal. "Inspired by Cathar's WW design" wouldn't have killed them to say somewhere though.

nikhsub1 · 11-05-2003, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Player0
"This is basically a White Water clone. But I added some turbulence to the overall design."

I just saw that thread here, were WaterPimp sais its a WhiteWater clone. If he was involved in the blocks design, and he makes that comment, well then I can see the point you guys have about comparing it to the WhiteWater. I mean, the guy sais he took the idea.

So, i dont know. Im not sure what I could say about this issue and be fair. But these kinds of things are what international patents are for. Let the legal system decide who has claim to the design.

No one here (at least I think) wishes this block to suck. It is just the manner in which it came to life and the way DD calls it there own. WRT the patent issue, If Cathar patented the WW when he designed it, about a year and a half ago, he'd still be waiting for the Patent to go through and would have spent thousands of dollars. And for what? He knew the WW would be outdone eventually and who wants a patent on a block that is no longer the best?

jaydee · 11-05-2003, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Player0
"This is basically a White Water clone. But I added some turbulence to the overall design."

I just saw that thread here, were WaterPimp sais its a WhiteWater clone. If he was involved in the blocks design, and he makes that comment, well then I can see the point you guys have about comparing it to the WhiteWater. I mean, the guy sais he took the idea.

So, i dont know. Im not sure what I could say about this issue and be fair. But these kinds of things are what international patents are for. Let the legal system decide who has claim to the design.

All I can say is that on my little water system, the RBX is a very competitive block. And I only wish I had a stake in DangerDen right now. Or SwiftTech, or Dtek, or any other manufacturer involved in this hobby.

First of all I will apologize for jumping your case. I hope you continue to take part in this forum. I have an issue with tact and i am working on it.

Patents are near usless for water blocks. They would only be usefull if CPU's stayed the same over time or the block is designed in a fashion that takes account for future CPU's. The Swiftech block comes to mind as it should work great and maybe excell with IHS topped CPU's. Where the White Water and knockoff's will not perform as well due to lack of surface area. Cathar would have lost more money than he made trying to get a patent let alone enforcing it.

Swiftech on the other hand is working on a patent for that pin design and it might actually pay off being that block should be good to use for 5 more years if the current CPU roadmaps stay the same. I think they need to redesign it a little though, but I will keep those changes to myself!

Skulemate · 11-05-2003, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Since87
Although I couldn't find anything authoritative via Google, the general consensus was that a modified sinewave would result in a 20% increase in heat generation in typical motors. Magnetic drive pumps, being much more inductive than typical motor applications, may be much more severely impacted.

I know this is anecdotal "evidence," but I have run my Iwaki through my UPS (which uses a modified sine-wave as its output when running on batteries) once and it hated it. I only ran it for a couple of minutes, but that was enough for me to never want to do it again. There was considerably more noise produced by the motor, and the poor thing ran a lot hotter than it usually does.

yohann · 11-05-2003, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Roscal
A copy of the Dtek WW , nozzle could be changed :

Codename: dangerden RBX

Again you ?

Player0 · 11-05-2003, 01:42 PM

Well, Ill never pretend to know anything about patent systems

Ive only helped others design blocks, I've never owned a design myself

Player0 · 11-05-2003, 01:50 PM

Hey Bill,

Gabe heard about the spring problems and is sending me the stronger versions. Looks like Ill delay things a bit more (this is never ending lol). I still have to test the new mounting for AquaJoes block too. Man, carpal tunnel makes reviewing these things tough

Player0 · 11-05-2003, 01:57 PM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
At 2250mhz on an XP2400+ at 1.85v, HE120.3 radiator, Eheim 1060 pump, Im getting about 37c with the Cascade and 36c with the RBX. Compared to the Maze4 which runs 39-40c, the AquaJoe at 41c, MCW5002 at 42c, SlitEdge at 42c, ThermoChill at 40c, and whatever else I tested.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This speaks for itself. Yes I have already dismissed his review for the reason above. He sounds like an unorganized fool. Why should I NOT dismiss it?

I dont know whats wrong with the Maze4 numbers. Its right on par with what other people seem to get for the block. The MCW5002 numbers are a bit higher cause of the mounting. I dont know why the SlitEdge was high, I expected it to do better. But they are all within 1c of each other, where most of the blocks end up except for the RBX and Cascade. I had the Maze4 mounted 3 different times during testing. The numbers were consistant there.

These are only some of the numbers. I tested each block at default speeds, and overclocked to 2250. And I tested each speed with full flow, and restricted flow (thanks to a gas ball-valve) which simulates (albeit roughly) a constricted system or a smaller pump. The Maze4 numbers are much more average than your seeing here with just my small sampling of results.

Im not purposely being ambigious, Im just not done confirming results. I just wanted to show some prelims on the RBX because I really like the block.

#Rotor · 11-05-2003, 03:10 PM

the test is a simple one....

remove Cathar and every single little thread of existance of him or his awesome contribution to our hobby, from our reality as is stands now, and then ask yourself, if DD's new block would have looked like that....

MScooling · 11-05-2003, 03:22 PM

You guys need to step back from the keyboard and go outside to play.

I don't believe I have ever seen so much argument over a freakin waterblock.

BTW: I've been running a Maze1 for over 4 years now

jaydee · 11-05-2003, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by #Rotor
the test is a simple one....

remove Cathar and every single little thread of existance of him or his awesome contribution to our hobby, from our reality as is stands now, and then ask yourself, if DD's new block would have looked like that....

What do we know, we are just uneducated idiots that don't know the truth.

Quote:

originally posted by Player0
Hmm. I guess so. Well, I wont try and persuade any idiots over there to beleive the truth. I just wanted to add my two cents in to an arguement filled with uneducated people who havent even SEEN the damn block

Since87 · 11-05-2003, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skulemate
I know this is anecdotal "evidence," but I have run my Iwaki through my UPS (which uses a modified sine-wave as its output when running on batteries) once and it hated it. I only ran ir for a couple of minutes, but that was enough for me to never want to do it again. There was considerably more noise produced by the motor, and the poor thing ran a lot hotter than it usually does.

Thanks for the info.

If anyone is not convinced by that, that running a magdrive pump off a modified sinewave inverter is a bad idea, I'd be happy to do some testing.

I can come up with the inverter and instrumentation. I just don't have a pump I'm willing to sacrifice for the test. Any leaky/dying piece of junk pump would do.

Cathar · 11-05-2003, 05:33 PM

I don't know about what you guys think about the following, but here's my view on it.

I don't want my name/pseudonym associated with the RBX block, or the hat even tipped to me, at least not in public.

If the RBX block was for private use, then sure, it'd be a nice gesture.

If the RBX block is to be sold commercially, then I'd personally feel a whole lot more "dirty and used" if my name were used in conjunction with a product that started out as "essentially a WW clone", and then gets on-sold to someone else and everyone's making money except I.

Not that I really care about the money, but the last thing I feel that I would want is to then have my name or pseudonym attached to something to be used as a cynical marketing ploy, because that is essentially what it would be, added marketing impact. That would grate a whole lot more to me.

I also still fail to see how "better than a White Water" comments can be made though, especially since a White Water was not used in testing. It is only a hypothesis to suggest such, but it cannot be a firm statement.

The Cascade really comes into its own as one ramps the volts and clock speeds. At default voltages and speeds there is probably about as much separating it and the White Water, as Player0's tests indicate as a separation between the RBX and the Cascade.

Ideally I would've like to have seen a peak overclock/over-volt test as the distributed point cooling of the Cascade provides a more uniform mechanism across the die area. However I believe that Player0 already sold the Cascade that he tested about two weeks ago (the person who bought it has already contacted me asking for some advice).

In any review I would also like to see CPU temp minus water temp deltas as this better factors out issues in the ambient temperature variations.

In any test between two blocks I always like to mount them in opposition to each other (alternate between blocks) to gain some sort of sanity checking. This is needed less for more exacting test beds like BillA's, but for system based test beds I find it's a useful consistency checking tool after an episode during the Cascade development when I had gathered some results and two weeks later could not reproduce them, setting me back quite a bit until I figured out what had changed.

Archmage · 11-05-2003, 05:47 PM

*My Iwaki md30rlt ran hotter, Since87. = No Confirmation needed.

- I now have 2 powerful pumps to test against each other (for personal purposes): Md30rlt + Rainbow Lifeguard Quiet One. I have no experience with the Rainbow pump, but does anyone have any clue which of these I should hold on to? I'll prob. be testing with varying flow patterns...tubing sizes, parallel blocks/rads... that kind of thing - so about 10 different test configurations. Hopefully I can get a hold of a Cascade/RBX type block. Uhm - this is personal cooling thing here, I don't have the equipment for a review.

Anyone have any tips on pump testing methodology for just my own benefit? My setup is not determined...but I have giant, flow-restrictive radiators to be set in parallel.

And about the RBX - it looks good. I DO think they should have mentioned the source for the concept, though.

Edit: Now seeing Cathar's post...perhaps not mentioning was better eh...eheh

Player0 · 11-05-2003, 06:55 PM

I also still fail to see how "better than a White Water" comments can be made though, especially since a White Water was not used in testing. It is only a hypothesis to suggest such, but it cannot be a firm statement.

Okay, fair enough. I wont say anything about the White Water in the review until I test one. I merely thought that the Cascade was the 'design-up' over the WW.

Ideally I would've like to have seen a peak overclock/over-volt test as the distributed point cooling of the Cascade provides a more uniform mechanism across the die area.

Definitely. I was unable to get any more heat out of my XP2400+. I think the blocks should be tested on a highly clocked P4 rig. I think the degrees of seperation will be much more evident, and I think the Cascade would come out on top for sure.

In any review I would also like to see CPU temp minus water temp deltas as this better factors out issues in the ambient temperature variations.

That information will be in my full review. Cascade provides dT of 8.5c at my highest test, and the DBX runs a dT of 9.6c, under ambient of about 25c.

In any test between two blocks I always like to mount them in opposition to each other (alternate between blocks) to gain some sort of sanity checking.

I ran the DBX tests after the Cascade. I had been using the Cascade in the system because I liked it, so when the new block showed up, I swapped it out. So the testing was pretty close on these.

Cathar · 11-05-2003, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Player0
That information will be in my full review. Cascade provides dT of 8.5c at my highest test, and the DBX runs a dT of 9.6c, under ambient of about 25c.

1.1dT eh? What was your highest test?

Around a 1.5C dT difference between the Cascade and the White Water is what is seen by myelf for a moderately overclocked Athlon T'Bred B (XP2100+ @ 2.3GHz/1.85v).

At my standard testing conditions, 2.4GHz/1.95v it's around 1.8C.

At high overclocks, 2.6GHz/2.0v the difference I measured is a full 2.5C.

When it comes to peak overclocking though, the Cascade has it all over the White Water. This nice little XP2500+ I have here will do 2.82GHz/2.15v stable with the Cascade, and won't do more than 2.76GHz with the White Water, or a number of other micro-channel slit-inlet blocks. With my older XP2800+ (Barton), again a number of micro-channel blocks including the White Water and other commercial "similarities" attained a peak of 2.68GHz, while the Cascade managed 2.72GHz with it.

This is why I would've liked to see a peak overclock test.

Basically, and assuming that we can compare results here, what you're showing points to the RBX as being far more like a White Water than a Cascade in terms of temperature performance.

I have an experimental White Water modification here that is about 0.5C better than the White Water that I sold. Problem is that the extra 1-1.5C of performance that the Cascade gives is nigh on impossible to (cheaply) eke out of the micro-channel/slit design which is why I moved away from that design.

Still, it's a real achievement to make such a block as the DBX for ~$53. I would imagine that the margins would be extremely tight. The pricing level, to me, seems decidely like an attempt to drive competition from the market.

[Edit: To all those who are watching over the shoulder of this post, please take the above 0.1C accuracy values with a large grain of salt. They are just what I see and have been able to ascertain, but I make no pretentions that such is accurate to that fine level of detail.]

#Rotor · 11-05-2003, 07:30 PM

"... seems decidely like an attempt to drive competition from the market."

It does indeed... But they'r gona have to drive a lot harder to get rid of some old-timers, thats for sure...

#Rotor · 11-05-2003, 07:53 PM

I am going to apologize to him now, if he was planning on staying clear from this intellectual mudslinging contest...

BUT....

Balinju needs to be mentioned too, I think...

as in this thread....

the picture that stuck in my mind, and that made me look it up again....

Blackeagle · 11-05-2003, 09:18 PM

Funny, I agree both with JD & Player0 on this block.

I think it's without doubt a clone of WW even prior to reading that past thread. But I also agree with Player0, it's also a clone of the Cascade.

ALL this RBX is, if you look again, is a overlaying of the Cascade jet holes over/with the channels of the WW.

Then add a adjustable inlet, only this one is adjustable by buying more plates from DD for $$$ more.

AS the (designer? NOT) cloner took the best from the WW and Cascade with a changable inlet added in, I'd be damned surprised if it didn't do well.

Not impressed. I've a original Cascade that I'll use.

EDIT:

Rotor posted that pic while I was typing and retyping (editing) my above post. Pretty clear the "creator" of this RBX block found this forum to be a gold mine of info. Perhaps he used Balinju's depicted consept for his blueprint instead of overlaying a Cascade pattern of hole through a WW base.

The more about this I've read the less impressed I get. $$$$ for DD from those to whom only low cost matters and F*** Cathar's and others hard work. I hope, if this thing does turn out to perform at high levels that CAthar's recouped all cost of development and testing his various designs.

And DD can be VERY sure, I'll not be buying this, or anything else they sell.

bozo · 11-05-2003, 09:35 PM

Quote:

I just wanted to show some prelims on the RBX because I really like the block.

display of bias?

georgeteo · 11-05-2003, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Player0
[b]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
At 2250mhz on an XP2400+ at 1.85v, HE120.3 radiator, Eheim 1060 pump, Im getting about 37c with the Cascade and 36c with the RBX. Compared to the Maze4 which runs 39-40c, the AquaJoe at 41c, MCW5002 at 42c, SlitEdge at 42c, ThermoChill at 40c, and whatever else I tested.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I agree with Cathar ... temps aren't everything. My personal preferance: max stable overclock over the latter, cause its simply more practical.

*on a 5002A*
Had problems mounting it initially i.e. low performance. Modified the springs (for stronger mount pressure) and remounted. After a few more re-mounts ... viola ... an extra 150mhz. Glad to hear that Gabe has ack the problem and is doing something abt it.

RickCain · 11-05-2003, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by winewood
Thats awsome considering the ww was selling around $100 US at one time.. (wasnt it? :shrug: ) I love DDen, those guys have great service and are very competitive. This just shows they are not going anywhere but up.

They will only continue to go up as long as they can rip off everyone elses hard work. You really think DD can come up with their own idea? I don't think so.

DD is nothing other than a "me too" product that pays websites to pimp their crap. I will never buy from them again.

pHaestus · 11-05-2003, 10:11 PM

Really? Never gotten any money from DD myself; who do I contact?

DD make solid products at a low price point and have done so for a long time.

That'll be three-fiddy, DD!

RickCain · 11-05-2003, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Player0
Just more evidence to the stack that anyone can write articles for a website.

Yeah, I know, Im such a newbie water cooler. See? Look at the trouble I got in simply because DangerDen sends me a new block. Maybe I should just test the old ones from now on.

Your results are considerably different than others and very suspect, your showing your bias just by jumping in on this thread and defending this block,

Um, okay? Who else has reviewed the RBX? What results are different than others? The only review Ive seen is on Modfathers, and it worked well for them too. Bill, I hope you test this block soon, I know you'll like it, they won't listen to me apparantly.

you don't know the D-Tek deal with Cathar? (the white water is selling well all over the world!), you still havn't given your testing bed specs or answered other questions, your testing results are rediculous, to much of the word "about" from someone who is supposed to be a tester, etc....

I posted information right on this thread. What, do you want me to cut and paste the review right here? I havent finished testing, and I'm trying to take in information here for consideration when I do release the review. Why do you think I am here, to enjoy the bashing? No, I want to see what the questions and concerns about the blocks are, and maybe I can address these in my testing.

Your results will automatically be dismissed. if you want to keep credibility at least try and not look biased towards the stuff you review.

Im already dismissed with many readers at this point. I dont know how I'm biased. I tested the damn block and posted my numbers. I've always been labeled a SwiftTech bias because they always tested well for me. I guess I'm just biased about the blocks that perform best. Well gee.

Will be interested to see the results of this block by ligitimate testers. Yeah I know, good luck there.....

I guess you think it's easy. Why don't you start writing. After all, I guess anyone can write reviews for a website these days.

RickCain · 11-05-2003, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pHaestus
Really? Never gotten any money from DD myself; who do I contact?

DD make solid products at a low price point and have done so for a long time.

That'll be three-fiddy, DD!

I still won't ever buy from them again. I only made that mistake on my first block.

11-05-2003, 01:42 PM	#81
Player0 Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: NY Posts: 45	Well, Ill never pretend to know anything about patent systems Ive only helped others design blocks, I've never owned a design myself __________________ http://www.liquidninjas.com

11-05-2003, 01:50 PM	#82
Player0 Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: NY Posts: 45	Hey Bill, Gabe heard about the spring problems and is sending me the stronger versions. Looks like Ill delay things a bit more (this is never ending lol). I still have to test the new mounting for AquaJoes block too. Man, carpal tunnel makes reviewing these things tough __________________ http://www.liquidninjas.com

11-05-2003, 01:57 PM	#83
Player0 Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: NY Posts: 45	-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- At 2250mhz on an XP2400+ at 1.85v, HE120.3 radiator, Eheim 1060 pump, Im getting about 37c with the Cascade and 36c with the RBX. Compared to the Maze4 which runs 39-40c, the AquaJoe at 41c, MCW5002 at 42c, SlitEdge at 42c, ThermoChill at 40c, and whatever else I tested. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This speaks for itself. Yes I have already dismissed his review for the reason above. He sounds like an unorganized fool. Why should I NOT dismiss it? I dont know whats wrong with the Maze4 numbers. Its right on par with what other people seem to get for the block. The MCW5002 numbers are a bit higher cause of the mounting. I dont know why the SlitEdge was high, I expected it to do better. But they are all within 1c of each other, where most of the blocks end up except for the RBX and Cascade. I had the Maze4 mounted 3 different times during testing. The numbers were consistant there. These are only some of the numbers. I tested each block at default speeds, and overclocked to 2250. And I tested each speed with full flow, and restricted flow (thanks to a gas ball-valve) which simulates (albeit roughly) a constricted system or a smaller pump. The Maze4 numbers are much more average than your seeing here with just my small sampling of results. Im not purposely being ambigious, Im just not done confirming results. I just wanted to show some prelims on the RBX because I really like the block. __________________ http://www.liquidninjas.com

11-05-2003, 03:10 PM	#84
#Rotor Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dione, sector 4s1256 Posts: 852	the test is a simple one.... remove Cathar and every single little thread of existance of him or his awesome contribution to our hobby, from our reality as is stands now, and then ask yourself, if DD's new block would have looked like that.... __________________ There is no Spoon....

11-05-2003, 03:22 PM	#85
MScooling Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Virginia Posts: 21	You guys need to step back from the keyboard and go outside to play. I don't believe I have ever seen so much argument over a freakin waterblock. BTW: I've been running a Maze1 for over 4 years now __________________ ~Burnt Silcon~

11-05-2003, 01:16 PM	#76
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	His quotes in that thread and then the ones on page one of this one look pretty much like that's what happened. The block does look different from the WW though to me and so I don't see a huge deal. "Inspired by Cathar's WW design" wouldn't have killed them to say somewhere though.

11-05-2003, 05:33 PM	#88
Cathar Thermophile Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 2,538	I don't know about what you guys think about the following, but here's my view on it. I don't want my name/pseudonym associated with the RBX block, or the hat even tipped to me, at least not in public. If the RBX block was for private use, then sure, it'd be a nice gesture. If the RBX block is to be sold commercially, then I'd personally feel a whole lot more "dirty and used" if my name were used in conjunction with a product that started out as "essentially a WW clone", and then gets on-sold to someone else and everyone's making money except I. Not that I really care about the money, but the last thing I feel that I would want is to then have my name or pseudonym attached to something to be used as a cynical marketing ploy, because that is essentially what it would be, added marketing impact. That would grate a whole lot more to me. I also still fail to see how "better than a White Water" comments can be made though, especially since a White Water was not used in testing. It is only a hypothesis to suggest such, but it cannot be a firm statement. The Cascade really comes into its own as one ramps the volts and clock speeds. At default voltages and speeds there is probably about as much separating it and the White Water, as Player0's tests indicate as a separation between the RBX and the Cascade. Ideally I would've like to have seen a peak overclock/over-volt test as the distributed point cooling of the Cascade provides a more uniform mechanism across the die area. However I believe that Player0 already sold the Cascade that he tested about two weeks ago (the person who bought it has already contacted me asking for some advice). In any review I would also like to see CPU temp minus water temp deltas as this better factors out issues in the ambient temperature variations. In any test between two blocks I always like to mount them in opposition to each other (alternate between blocks) to gain some sort of sanity checking. This is needed less for more exacting test beds like BillA's, but for system based test beds I find it's a useful consistency checking tool after an episode during the Cascade development when I had gathered some results and two weeks later could not reproduce them, setting me back quite a bit until I figured out what had changed.

11-05-2003, 05:47 PM	#89
Archmage Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: California Posts: 12	*My Iwaki md30rlt ran hotter, Since87. = No Confirmation needed. - I now have 2 powerful pumps to test against each other (for personal purposes): Md30rlt + Rainbow Lifeguard Quiet One. I have no experience with the Rainbow pump, but does anyone have any clue which of these I should hold on to? I'll prob. be testing with varying flow patterns...tubing sizes, parallel blocks/rads... that kind of thing - so about 10 different test configurations. Hopefully I can get a hold of a Cascade/RBX type block. Uhm - this is personal cooling thing here, I don't have the equipment for a review. Anyone have any tips on pump testing methodology for just my own benefit? My setup is not determined...but I have giant, flow-restrictive radiators to be set in parallel. And about the RBX - it looks good. I DO think they should have mentioned the source for the concept, though. Edit: Now seeing Cathar's post...perhaps not mentioning was better eh...eheh

11-05-2003, 06:55 PM	#90
Player0 Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: NY Posts: 45	I also still fail to see how "better than a White Water" comments can be made though, especially since a White Water was not used in testing. It is only a hypothesis to suggest such, but it cannot be a firm statement. Okay, fair enough. I wont say anything about the White Water in the review until I test one. I merely thought that the Cascade was the 'design-up' over the WW. Ideally I would've like to have seen a peak overclock/over-volt test as the distributed point cooling of the Cascade provides a more uniform mechanism across the die area. Definitely. I was unable to get any more heat out of my XP2400+. I think the blocks should be tested on a highly clocked P4 rig. I think the degrees of seperation will be much more evident, and I think the Cascade would come out on top for sure. In any review I would also like to see CPU temp minus water temp deltas as this better factors out issues in the ambient temperature variations. That information will be in my full review. Cascade provides dT of 8.5c at my highest test, and the DBX runs a dT of 9.6c, under ambient of about 25c. In any test between two blocks I always like to mount them in opposition to each other (alternate between blocks) to gain some sort of sanity checking. I ran the DBX tests after the Cascade. I had been using the Cascade in the system because I liked it, so when the new block showed up, I swapped it out. So the testing was pretty close on these. __________________ http://www.liquidninjas.com

11-05-2003, 07:30 PM	#92
#Rotor Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dione, sector 4s1256 Posts: 852	"... seems decidely like an attempt to drive competition from the market." It does indeed... But they'r gona have to drive a lot harder to get rid of some old-timers, thats for sure... __________________ There is no Spoon....

11-05-2003, 07:53 PM	#93
#Rotor Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dione, sector 4s1256 Posts: 852	I am going to apologize to him now, if he was planning on staying clear from this intellectual mudslinging contest... BUT.... Balinju needs to be mentioned too, I think... as in this thread.... the picture that stuck in my mind, and that made me look it up again.... __________________ There is no Spoon....

11-05-2003, 09:18 PM	#94
Blackeagle Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: U.S.A = Michigan Posts: 1,243	Funny, I agree both with JD & Player0 on this block. I think it's without doubt a clone of WW even prior to reading that past thread. But I also agree with Player0, it's also a clone of the Cascade. ALL this RBX is, if you look again, is a overlaying of the Cascade jet holes over/with the channels of the WW. Then add a adjustable inlet, only this one is adjustable by buying more plates from DD for $$$ more. AS the (designer? NOT) cloner took the best from the WW and Cascade with a changable inlet added in, I'd be damned surprised if it didn't do well. Not impressed. I've a original Cascade that I'll use. EDIT: Rotor posted that pic while I was typing and retyping (editing) my above post. Pretty clear the "creator" of this RBX block found this forum to be a gold mine of info. Perhaps he used Balinju's depicted consept for his blueprint instead of overlaying a Cascade pattern of hole through a WW base. The more about this I've read the less impressed I get. $$$$ for DD from those to whom only low cost matters and F*** Cathar's and others hard work. I hope, if this thing does turn out to perform at high levels that CAthar's recouped all cost of development and testing his various designs. And DD can be VERY sure, I'll not be buying this, or anything else they sell. Last edited by Blackeagle; 11-05-2003 at 09:43 PM.

11-05-2003, 10:11 PM	#98
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	Really? Never gotten any money from DD myself; who do I contact? DD make solid products at a low price point and have done so for a long time. That'll be three-fiddy, DD!

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)