new swiftech block? - Page 4

deathBOB · 04-19-2004, 07:37 PM

Hmmm... I was understanding the MCP had higher head than the mag 3, but they are even at about 10....

Jabo · 04-20-2004, 06:21 AM

Congratlations on new product Swiftech!
Price/performance ratio is pretty impressive (brazing must have it's part in it).

Some questions to Swiftech (BillA):

1. What about biogrowths inside the block? Since it is not possible to clean inside how are you going to adress it? Use of additives, warranty pending correct installation and system design (cleanlines levels, use of distilled/deionized water or factory supplied coolant?) These block WILL 'gunk-up' latter than sooner and if so are you going to ignore this and act upon estimated life span of this product in a typical targeted system?

2. Why are you still stuck on the same old 'pin' design type? Is it manufacturing/price issue? You must have some better ideas up in your sleeve given your substantial R&D dept budget? Or maybe it is a case of savings made on R&D front and beating the last breaths out of the old horse of design situation here? (Don't get me wrong here, I do not want to start flame war, I do not critisie the product which I complemented at the very beginning of this post!)

3. Why didn't you use 'gemoetric central pressure clamping technique' here which would complement your desing nicely and ensure perfect mount every time?

4. I found wormdrive hose clips to be qite crude solution looking like design neglect or afterthought. Speed-fit solution is absolutely briliant on the other hand! Well done!

I found very interesting part of discussion regarding main streaminess of watercooling. I think it is going to be mainstream sooner than later imo. Every industry is quite innert when it comes to safety/security issues largely addopting attitude 'If it works why fix it' or 'Unless Intel tells us to watercool we will not in milion years'.
Watercooling systems as they are at the moment are usless for OEM manufacturers. First of all it needs to be modular so if pumps fails (fail safe shut down systems are dead easy to implement using very cheap flow switches) it can be replaced easier (external module containig pump rads and fans or even better central plumbing with redundant pumping capacity) and quicker than air cooled solution without even opening the case.
Secondly here must be one of the biggish players to implement it as a first one for trend to pick up and market to flourish. Beneficts of total water cooling over air cooling are endless leading in the end to air tight, noiseless and dust free computing! We talking offices with more than 50 workstations here which even now are pretty user tamper free (in most offices opening up your workstation is a serious offence and security breach).
In 5 to 10 years time water cooling will be VERY main stream

BillA · 04-20-2004, 03:28 PM

1) use PineSol or another phenol based liquid cleaner
2) cost effectiveness
3) need to provide a mounting challenge to pHaestus
4) we aim to please

nope, jd summed it up: reliability
evaluate a WCing system, bit by individual bit (EACH one, not all this is such and such) - pretty depressing for a WCing fanboy

Jabo · 04-20-2004, 05:23 PM

Thanks for answering

alexwai · 04-20-2004, 08:02 PM

Bill

Can I ask you some specified question about the mounting springs you use in Althon 64?

How many full turns of the bolt to reach the mounting pressure (60 - 90 lbs) for Althin 64?

Thanks

dacooltech · 04-21-2004, 12:08 AM

Bill I was wondering... How about offering an optional plastic reducer - like a tube insert but thicker - for the inlet of the MCW6000 1/2"OD version? To decrease the inlet fitting's ID to lets say 1/4ID for example...

BillA · 04-21-2004, 08:44 AM

alexwai
will have to look (but so could you with any A64 stock setup ?)
note that limiters are used to preclude overtightening

Bruce
why would one wish to restrict the pump inlet ?
this is the absolutely worst mod possible for a pump
we could provide threaded connections, 1/2" NPT male, but seems a hassle for the demand (none to date)

jaydee · 04-21-2004, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unregistered

Bruce
why would one wish to restrict the pump inlet ?
this is the absolutely worst mod possible for a pump
we could provide threaded connections, 1/2" NPT male, but seems a hassle for the demand (none to date)

To use it as an upgrade on an existing 1/4" system like a Koolance maybe?

Groth · 04-21-2004, 09:49 AM

Who's naming these things?

If even the big-chief-engineer can confuse the MCW6000 waterblock and the MCP600 pump, how's the customer gonna fair?

Jabo · 04-21-2004, 10:07 AM

Did you see 'Gone on 60 secs'?. Why not name them with girls names as well?

BillA · 04-21-2004, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Groth

Who's naming these things?

If even the big-chief-engineer can confuse the MCW6000 waterblock and the MCP600 pump, how's the customer gonna fair?

ah, crap
yes I misread Bruce's question
all will become clear when the MCW6002 (? name ??) is revealed - to have a reduced inlet ID

naming by Gabe

hey Jabo, I call wbs with dual outlets "triple titters"
think that will fly ?

Jabo · 04-21-2004, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unregistered

naming by Gabe

hey Jabo, I call wbs with dual outlets "triple titters"
think that will fly ?

LOL - lots of milking action! LOL

In such a case I'd luv to see the name for a impingement style WB (if S. were to make one) and, even better, nomenclature for long slit-like nozzle part, he he he

EDIT: Amazing Gabrielle - Three Tits!

alexwai · 04-21-2004, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unregistered

alexwai
will have to look (but so could you with any A64 stock setup ?)

Not sure. just want to make think clear before purchasing. Thanks

Blackeagle · 04-22-2004, 09:59 AM

DAMN! ! ! ! A all COPPER block from Swiftech, great job!

I like the straight inlet/outlet tubes and look forward to reading more about this new block........soon as I get some missions done in town.

Great looking new block Bill! !

9mmCensor · 04-26-2004, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unregistered

I call wbs with dual outlets "triple titters"
think that will fly ?

Will there be a "triple titter" coming anytime soon in the Swiftech line-up, or are yoou just refering to WBs you have used before, as opposed to something you are working on?

BillA · 04-27-2004, 08:47 AM

the 3ed hose is not worth the hassle

Cathar · 04-27-2004, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unregistered

ah, crap
hey Jabo, I call wbs with dual outlets "triple titters"
think that will fly ?

See - you say that, and I think this:

http://www.misinformer.com/archive/2002/10/21/total.jpg

BillA · 04-28-2004, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cathar

See - you say that, and I think this:

http://www.misinformer.com/archive/2002/10/21/total.jpg

finally, from down under no less (should I be surprised ?)

pro-boobies

Cathar · 04-28-2004, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unregistered

finally, from down under no less (should I be surprised ?)

pro-boobies

LOL. Actually it's from the mind of a Dutchman, Paul Verhoeven, more famously known as the director of the movie "Total Recall", from which the picture comes from.

I believe the accompanying quote from a guy talking to her was:

"Damn - you make me wish I was born with 3 hands!"

MMZ_TimeLord · 04-28-2004, 11:11 AM

And at the end... you are still wondering... was it real? or is he in his own fantasy?

:shrug:

Cathar · 04-28-2004, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MMZ_TimeLord

And at the end... you are still wondering... was it real? or is he in his own fantasy?

:shrug:

It was all an implanted fantasy. Prior to even implanting him there were scenes of the "Blue sky on Mars" on the monitor, with the technician saying something like: "Blue sky on Mars eh? This is gonna be one hell of a memory!". Everything that took place after that was a required part of the memory implant to make the memory flow in a contiguous and believable sequence.

Totally off-topic now.

killernoodle · 04-29-2004, 12:07 AM

From critique of liquid microprocessor cooling solutions and functions of flow rate and discussions of C/W to a girl with 3 boobies on mars.

We are at least pros of A.D.D.

( . Y . Y . )

^ triboobs

Jag · 05-21-2004, 09:24 AM

I think that the new waterblocks Swfitech just launched are just to keep the pace running, but there's not real improvements, that is, at least as we were used to see and hope from Swiftech.
Maybe when Swiftech launches MCW6003 with 1/4 thickness of copper, will see some performance.

jaydee · 05-21-2004, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jag

I think that the new waterblocks Swfitech just launched are just to keep the pace running, but there's not real improvements, that is, at least as we were used to see and hope from Swiftech.
Maybe when Swiftech launches MCW6003 with 1/4 thickness of copper, will see some performance.

2C is a pretty large gain for the much cheaper and easy of use it offers. OC'ers has it at .14CW with the RBX at .13CW and the 5002 at .15CW. That is pretty good.

1/4"? That would make it perform worst?

Jag · 05-22-2004, 04:35 PM

Don't get me wrong.
2ºC is a improvement, no doubt.
What I meant to say is that Swiftech has the potential to do much better, and it sure made us feel this way.
At least to me, I was expecting something close in performance to the level of the waterblocks released by Cathar, nothing less, and that didn´t happened.
This "market" is not an OEM market, and any enthusiast is willing to pay a bit more to get an extra performance.
So, there's two new words: "value" and "foster scale".
You can build anything with these two, but it won't be a Ferrari.

04-21-2004, 12:08 AM	#81
dacooltech Pro/Vendor Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 267	Bill I was wondering... How about offering an optional plastic reducer - like a tube insert but thicker - for the inlet of the MCW6000 1/2"OD version? To decrease the inlet fitting's ID to lets say 1/4ID for example... __________________ www.cooltechnica.com

04-28-2004, 11:11 AM	#95
MMZ_TimeLord Cooling Savant Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: San Mateo, CA, USA, Earth Posts: 433	And at the end... you are still wondering... was it real? or is he in his own fantasy? :shrug: __________________ MMZ>TimeLord "Oooooooooh... that's gonna leave a mark!"

04-29-2004, 12:07 AM	#97
killernoodle Thermophile Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 1,014	From critique of liquid microprocessor cooling solutions and functions of flow rate and discussions of C/W to a girl with 3 boobies on mars. We are at least pros of A.D.D. ( . Y . Y . ) ^ triboobs __________________ I have a nice computer.

04-19-2004, 07:37 PM	#76
deathBOB Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 60	Hmmm... I was understanding the MCP had higher head than the mag 3, but they are even at about 10....

04-20-2004, 06:21 AM	#77
Jabo Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Hertfordshire, England Posts: 164	Congratlations on new product Swiftech! Price/performance ratio is pretty impressive (brazing must have it's part in it). Some questions to Swiftech (BillA): 1. What about biogrowths inside the block? Since it is not possible to clean inside how are you going to adress it? Use of additives, warranty pending correct installation and system design (cleanlines levels, use of distilled/deionized water or factory supplied coolant?) These block WILL 'gunk-up' latter than sooner and if so are you going to ignore this and act upon estimated life span of this product in a typical targeted system? 2. Why are you still stuck on the same old 'pin' design type? Is it manufacturing/price issue? You must have some better ideas up in your sleeve given your substantial R&D dept budget? Or maybe it is a case of savings made on R&D front and beating the last breaths out of the old horse of design situation here? (Don't get me wrong here, I do not want to start flame war, I do not critisie the product which I complemented at the very beginning of this post!) 3. Why didn't you use 'gemoetric central pressure clamping technique' here which would complement your desing nicely and ensure perfect mount every time? 4. I found wormdrive hose clips to be qite crude solution looking like design neglect or afterthought. Speed-fit solution is absolutely briliant on the other hand! Well done! I found very interesting part of discussion regarding main streaminess of watercooling. I think it is going to be mainstream sooner than later imo. Every industry is quite innert when it comes to safety/security issues largely addopting attitude 'If it works why fix it' or 'Unless Intel tells us to watercool we will not in milion years'. Watercooling systems as they are at the moment are usless for OEM manufacturers. First of all it needs to be modular so if pumps fails (fail safe shut down systems are dead easy to implement using very cheap flow switches) it can be replaced easier (external module containig pump rads and fans or even better central plumbing with redundant pumping capacity) and quicker than air cooled solution without even opening the case. Secondly here must be one of the biggish players to implement it as a first one for trend to pick up and market to flourish. Beneficts of total water cooling over air cooling are endless leading in the end to air tight, noiseless and dust free computing! We talking offices with more than 50 workstations here which even now are pretty user tamper free (in most offices opening up your workstation is a serious offence and security breach). In 5 to 10 years time water cooling will be VERY main stream

04-20-2004, 03:28 PM	#78
BillA CoolingWorks Tech Guy Formerly "Unregistered" Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Posts: 2,371.493,106 Posts: 4,440	1) use PineSol or another phenol based liquid cleaner 2) cost effectiveness 3) need to provide a mounting challenge to pHaestus 4) we aim to please nope, jd summed it up: reliability evaluate a WCing system, bit by individual bit (EACH one, not all this is such and such) - pretty depressing for a WCing fanboy

04-20-2004, 05:23 PM	#79
Jabo Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Hertfordshire, England Posts: 164	Thanks for answering

04-20-2004, 08:02 PM	#80
alexwai Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 81	Bill Can I ask you some specified question about the mounting springs you use in Althon 64? How many full turns of the bolt to reach the mounting pressure (60 - 90 lbs) for Althin 64? Thanks

04-21-2004, 08:44 AM	#82
BillA CoolingWorks Tech Guy Formerly "Unregistered" Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Posts: 2,371.493,106 Posts: 4,440	alexwai will have to look (but so could you with any A64 stock setup ?) note that limiters are used to preclude overtightening Bruce why would one wish to restrict the pump inlet ? this is the absolutely worst mod possible for a pump we could provide threaded connections, 1/2" NPT male, but seems a hassle for the demand (none to date)

04-21-2004, 09:49 AM	#84
Groth Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: MO Posts: 781	Who's naming these things? If even the big-chief-engineer can confuse the MCW6000 waterblock and the MCP600 pump, how's the customer gonna fair?

04-21-2004, 10:07 AM	#85
Jabo Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Hertfordshire, England Posts: 164	Did you see 'Gone on 60 secs'?. Why not name them with girls names as well?

04-22-2004, 09:59 AM	#89
Blackeagle Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: U.S.A = Michigan Posts: 1,243	DAMN! ! ! ! A all COPPER block from Swiftech, great job! I like the straight inlet/outlet tubes and look forward to reading more about this new block........soon as I get some missions done in town. Great looking new block Bill! !

04-27-2004, 08:47 AM	#91
BillA CoolingWorks Tech Guy Formerly "Unregistered" Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Posts: 2,371.493,106 Posts: 4,440	the 3ed hose is not worth the hassle

05-21-2004, 09:24 AM	#98
Jag Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 179	I think that the new waterblocks Swfitech just launched are just to keep the pace running, but there's not real improvements, that is, at least as we were used to see and hope from Swiftech. Maybe when Swiftech launches MCW6003 with 1/4 thickness of copper, will see some performance.

05-22-2004, 04:35 PM	#100
Jag Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 179	Don't get me wrong. 2ºC is a improvement, no doubt. What I meant to say is that Swiftech has the potential to do much better, and it sure made us feel this way. At least to me, I was expecting something close in performance to the level of the waterblocks released by Cathar, nothing less, and that didn´t happened. This "market" is not an OEM market, and any enthusiast is willing to pay a bit more to get an extra performance. So, there's two new words: "value" and "foster scale". You can build anything with these two, but it won't be a Ferrari.

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