Beginner's new w/c setup - Page 5

tobyed2 · 02-06-2004, 05:56 AM

Sorry bit of noob question, I got some Hydrx with my MCP600, the bottle states that it is UV reactive, never used it before, what colour is it ? If its blue and I add Bright Yellow Dye do I get Green under UV ??!!

Secondly both the additive (Bright Yellow) and the coolant recommend n parts to n water, what mixes are people using 50:50

?

Glad to hear the case has FINALLY come Meethoss, my MCP600 finally came yesterday, Parcel Farce (a well known UK courier) who handle the majority of the uks imports had my parcel for 3 days before the managed to coordinate lorry/driver/door. You might of guessed I dont like Parcel Farce, I still remember the Watchdog article a copule of years ago where a widow sent here husbands ashes (err, WHY ?!) by Special Delivery, they lost the parcel, it was never found ... Oh and strange as it is, didnt have to pay any Import or Tax ...

This weekend looks like the final build, Ill take pics too ... Last on the list is to get the water, managed to find some in my local Safeways (grocery store) @ 90p a ltr ($1.65 USD) !!! Ok this stuff is cheap but how much do I get ?

Aardil · 02-06-2004, 08:21 AM

hydrx mix 2.8 oz. (1 bottle) to 1 Litre of Distilled water.
I dont know about the dye stuff never worried about the reactive part.

tobyed2 · 02-06-2004, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aardil

hydrx mix 2.8 oz. (1 bottle) to 1 Litre of Distilled water.
I dont know about the dye stuff never worried about the reactive part.

Thank you ! Obvious really ...

Yeah, what I meant about the Hydrx is that it has a UV green dye in it already, if I add a blue dye its gonna turn brown, yuck ... With much googling found this

http://www.vibecomputers.com/index.c...90727&tid=3396

Meethoss - heads up you were after blue dye effect ?

Meethoss · 02-06-2004, 10:40 AM

tobyed - yeah, I'm wondering the same. I have HydrX (it's a slightly darker than pea-green green, BTW) and Dark Blue UV dye but I dunno how it will mix. If I chuck enough in I'm thinking it will go either blue or maybe an almost navy/black colour. I'll do a few little tests on it first and let you know.

I've heard some bad things about Parcel Force too. I dunno who handled my MCP600 when it arrived, though, as my girlfriend received it. It was really quick though

And thanks, I'll check out Safeways. The current plan is to buy battery topup water (de-ionised water) from Halfords, which is essentially distilled water but with a few extra things done to do it. I think you need about a gallon or something. That's about 2 or 3 litres I think. Never was good at conversions.

I'll start putting things in the case tonight and measuring things up.

tobyed2 · 02-06-2004, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meethoss

tobyed - yeah, I'm wondering the same. I have HydrX (it's a slightly darker than pea-green green, BTW) and Dark Blue UV dye but I dunno how it will mix. If I chuck enough in I'm thinking it will go either blue or maybe an almost navy/black colour. I'll do a few little tests on it first and let you know.

I've heard some bad things about Parcel Force too. I dunno who handled my MCP600 when it arrived, though, as my girlfriend received it. It was really quick though

And thanks, I'll check out Safeways. The current plan is to buy battery topup water (de-ionised water) from Halfords, which is essentially distilled water but with a few extra things done to do it. I think you need about a gallon or something. That's about 2 or 3 litres I think. Never was good at conversions.

I'll start putting things in the case tonight and measuring things up.

Luvly colour isnt it ? I think you will find you will get a luvly brown colour, can you imagine filling the system up, and watching it turn

be interesting to see what colour it is under UV though ...

Yep, its deionised at Safeways my tuther half saw it (she was listening ...), still seems odd, I'd hate to drink the stuff, apparently its right next to the beer and crisps ;-) at my Halfords they quoted me £1.29 a ltr or £3 for 5 ltr.

I'm gonna get 2 ltrs (1 spare), the Hydrx treats 1 ltr so hopefully the system wont need more than 1 ltr.

Good luck for tonight, I'm doing the same ...

Meethoss · 02-06-2004, 08:21 PM

Well, I'll just have to see. Regarding my water (and worm drive clamps) I'm gonna get them tomorrow when I go pick the rest of my stuff up from Gavin. Have formatted my hard drive tonight so everything is fresh

tobyed2 · 02-07-2004, 05:24 AM

Got my water from Safeways, 49p half price !

Finally seeing if things fit, pants, the Maze 4 isnt gonna fit my Radeon 8500 :-( What block "should" fit the 8500 ?

Despite what block I get will I always lose the PCI slot below ?

If I was to dump the 8500, any suggestions for a replacement ? Overclockable off course !

tobyed2 · 02-07-2004, 06:11 AM

Danger Den reservoir comes with 2 fittings, the threaded side (which screws into the reservoir) has some white plumbing tape (half way down the threads). Are the fittings screwed in tight past the white tape or half way, so the white tape is inside the wall of the reservoir ?

See attached, you can just see the white plumbing tape.

kusojiji · 02-07-2004, 06:29 AM

Which radeon 8500 do you have? Who made it? You can write to DangerDen about it.

I've had problems with non-standard video cards also. Both my Nvidia cards have non-standard mounting holes. The Swiftech adapter for the MCW50 that is used for the 5900fx cards fits my 4200-8x and 5200.

As for the res, test it first, as with all your other water stuff before using it. That'll tell you if the fittings are installed correctly or not.

I don't know of any waterblocks (not custom made) thin enough to save the pci slot.

tobyed2 · 02-07-2004, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kusojiji

Which radeon 8500 do you have? Who made it? You can write to DangerDen about it.

I've had problems with non-standard video cards also. Both my Nvidia cards have non-standard mounting holes. The Swiftech adapter for the MCW50 that is used for the 5900fx cards fits my 4200-8x and 5200.

As for the res, test it first, as with all your other water stuff before using it. That'll tell you if the fittings are installed correctly or not.

I don't know of any waterblocks (not custom made) thin enough to save the pci slot.

Its an ATi Radeon 8500 64mb. Interesting, SiSoft Sandra reports the chipset as a Mobilty Radeon 9200 AGP ...

It has no mounting holes, so I will have to use expoxy resin

Looking at it more closely I've now removed the HSF (I was just marrying up without removing the HSF before I took the plunge and removed anything) it might JUST fit ... Its gonna be close.

kusojiji · 02-07-2004, 09:46 AM

Got pics of it without the hsf?

tobyed2 · 02-07-2004, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kusojiji

Got pics of it without the hsf?

As atttached, I removed the epoxy resin with nail varnish remover, and lightly scraped of the Ati logo and chip details.

The angle of the picture looks as if the block will stop the card going into the slot but it does just fit.

The Tight1 and Tight2 show the top left and top right capacitors (respectively) which stop any further movement of the block.

I said it was tight ...

Meethoss · 02-07-2004, 02:08 PM

I took everything out of the old case and took all the panels off the new one, laid everything down near it so I can see what will go where etc. The heater core with the new shroud will not fit :/ I'm gonna have to make some sort of external box.

The size of the rad and shroud is about 20cm wide, 20cm high and 11cm deep. I'll have to put that, the pump and the res inside the box and have some sort of DC power for the MCP600 and the fan (build in to the shroud). Any ideas?

Meethoss · 02-08-2004, 12:50 PM

Ok, put almost everything in the case and have found with a little trimming of the shroud the rad will fit in the top, though I'll have to move the DVD drive down. It'll be a bit annoying though cause there will be a space between that and the Aerogate 2. Anyone got any suggestions of something I can put in the middle? It'll need to be 3'4" of a DVD drive depth or less and the same colour as the Aerogate.

BTW, tobeyed - I mixed a little of the water with the HydrX and the dye and it made the water a kind of green-blue turqoise type colour. That was only with small amounts of additives and water so I think with a litre of water it might make it a bit darker. I might buy a little bit more blue and see how it turns out.

tobyed2 · 02-08-2004, 03:40 PM

Got all my kit in the case too, tested outstide case for 24 hours. I put it all in the case and found the GPU clips poking into the 2 pci slot down (!), I undid the first clip to rotate then thought "Ah, change soundcard with network card" NIC being a smaller card the clips on GPU go clear it. Retightened clip on GPU. Turned case upright, AH !! A LEAK. A small drop off (very obvious luminous green) water fell on the bottom of the case. It wasnt a vast amount, size of a little toe nail. Discovered coming from GPU clip, hadnt tightened it enough. Moped up water from around hose (it collected on the edge of the GPU block and dropped down). Couldnt find any other "dampness". Put everything in case. And turned on.

First of all had post beep, but no graphics, turned off machine.

Reseated graphics card, no post beep, still no graphics (card dry), fans/pump going.

Took out graphics card replaced with known working one (not water cooled).

Still no graphics, now machine doesnt even come on ! The red HD led falashes once, then nothing ...

I have tried my CPU in my other machine and it works, just in case it fried (didnt think it had but you never know).

I guess I must have some water still somewhere ... Will it evaporate ? How can I get rid ?

It was all going so well :''

Meethoss · 02-08-2004, 04:15 PM

Um. I'd make sure you turn everything off and leave it for a day or something. Maybe put it in a warm area and see if you can use anything to dry it up.

As long as you get all the water out of the way it will PROBABLY be ok. What you might also like to do is unplug a few non-essential things to be sure that you have enough power. Is your pump powered by the PSU? It could be using more power than you have.

Let me know how it goes.

tobyed2 · 02-08-2004, 04:32 PM

Yeah, I was wondering if it was not enough juice (I've got a 350w PSU), so I have now got the pump/fan running from a 486 next to my PC (state of the art 10 years ago

). Hopefully the air circulation will help the "damp" ...

Fingers crossed.

Glad to here youve had as much fun as me Meethos ! I think the external box would have been alot of additional work.

Meethoss · 02-09-2004, 06:41 AM

Ok, well try what I said and let me know how it is.

Gavin came around earlier to look at my stuff and he's taken away the rad/shroud and case. He'll trim the shroud and install the rad for me

kusojiji · 02-10-2004, 12:11 AM

You need to ensure that that 350watt ps has enough juice on the 3.3 and 5 vdc rails for your new board. Did you run it before adding the water system?

tobyed2 · 02-10-2004, 03:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kusojiji

You need to ensure that that 350watt ps has enough juice on the 3.3 and 5 vdc rails for your new board. Did you run it before adding the water system?

Kusojiji - Why th 3.3 and 5 vdc rails ? I thought the pump was 12v ?

Ah, this is where we touch on "Do I REALLY NEED a 550W PSU ?".

The PC was working, running fine. All I am doing is adding Water Cooling. Obviusly the MCP600 will be drawing further Watts from the PSU. Question is will it be trying to consume more than I have ? Let me rephrase that, how can a person who builds PCs (or even adds an upgrade) work out how many Watts they are using ?

I could list all my components here but alot of people would probably say "Woh, loads of stuff you nead at least an 800W" (exaggerating).

I guess with alot of hunting I could find the power demands of each item ...
Is there a "Gerenal rule of thumb" ?

kusojiji · 02-10-2004, 05:23 AM

The 3.3 and 5 vdc rails provide logic power and the new processors and boards need a lot. The 12vdc line is used primarily for motors, ie: fans, hard drive spindle motors, etc. I just go by my primary concern, which is the 12vdc line as I used to run a lot of fans. I don't run as many fans as before, but I still use a lot of drives. I run U160 and U320 scsi drives and they require a lot of power. My old IBM drives needed 2.5 amps each at start up on the 12vdc line.

But, since your computer used to work before the water setup, and assuming that nothing else changed, then it should still work. The MCP600 pump only draws .75 amps or about two 120mm fans worth of power.

Has your system dried off enough to try a restart?

Try resetting the bios and unplug the hard drive.

Meethoss · 02-10-2004, 10:03 AM

That's my thinking about the power. Generally, a 350W PSU isn't enough for a water cooled setup - pretty much because if you are running when then it is most likely you are also running a high performance setup which therefore needs a lot more power. I upgraded to the GlobalWin SAF 520W for this purpose.

BTW, more news on my setup. Gavin took the case and rad/shroud away to cut everything out and realised that where we were gonna put it will require more cutting from the 5.25" bay (it's inside at the top and hard to see) than would be good for the case. So he's checked out the price of aluminium from his supplier and it'll be about £20 - £30 for enough to make a box. So I'm gonna make up a design and then he'll do that for me.

I'll draw something up later and post it here so you guys can pass opinions

Butcher · 02-10-2004, 10:31 AM

My 300W does fine with a water cooled rig.

It coped with my heavily overclocked and overvolted tbird setup (cpu alone drew 140+W) and I ran a 15krpm scsi disk in that. Even at full load my 5V line is perfectly stable at 5.0-5.03V and my 12V line sits at 11.8-12.0V.

Meethoss · 02-10-2004, 05:56 PM

Some people seem to be lucky with power. A system calculated to need 500W can work on a 350W PSU. It's strange. I just say go for the most stable and powerful PSU you can afford

tobyed2 · 02-11-2004, 03:18 AM

Mwahahaha !! It Lives ! It Lives ! My creation ! Egor wheres my brain ?

Tried running a fan against the motherboard to try and dry it out, didnt work. Thought the mobo gone west so started removing stuff, turned the case onto its side and heard a case screw falling !! Dont recall losing one but sure enough it must have been causing a short somewhere, grrr.

Will post a pic, need to get back on the good side of my DFA (Domestic Financial Advisor), place is a bombsite, it looks as if at least 3 PCs have vommitted parts everywhere ...

02-06-2004, 05:56 AM	#101
tobyed2 Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Bristol / UK Posts: 31	Coolant/Dye or both ? Sorry bit of noob question, I got some Hydrx with my MCP600, the bottle states that it is UV reactive, never used it before, what colour is it ? If its blue and I add Bright Yellow Dye do I get Green under UV ??!! Secondly both the additive (Bright Yellow) and the coolant recommend n parts to n water, what mixes are people using 50:50 ? Glad to hear the case has FINALLY come Meethoss, my MCP600 finally came yesterday, Parcel Farce (a well known UK courier) who handle the majority of the uks imports had my parcel for 3 days before the managed to coordinate lorry/driver/door. You might of guessed I dont like Parcel Farce, I still remember the Watchdog article a copule of years ago where a widow sent here husbands ashes (err, WHY ?!) by Special Delivery, they lost the parcel, it was never found ... Oh and strange as it is, didnt have to pay any Import or Tax ... This weekend looks like the final build, Ill take pics too ... Last on the list is to get the water, managed to find some in my local Safeways (grocery store) @ 90p a ltr ($1.65 USD) !!! Ok this stuff is cheap but how much do I get ?

02-06-2004, 10:40 AM	#104
Meethoss Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Wales, UK Posts: 188	tobyed - yeah, I'm wondering the same. I have HydrX (it's a slightly darker than pea-green green, BTW) and Dark Blue UV dye but I dunno how it will mix. If I chuck enough in I'm thinking it will go either blue or maybe an almost navy/black colour. I'll do a few little tests on it first and let you know. I've heard some bad things about Parcel Force too. I dunno who handled my MCP600 when it arrived, though, as my girlfriend received it. It was really quick though And thanks, I'll check out Safeways. The current plan is to buy battery topup water (de-ionised water) from Halfords, which is essentially distilled water but with a few extra things done to do it. I think you need about a gallon or something. That's about 2 or 3 litres I think. Never was good at conversions. I'll start putting things in the case tonight and measuring things up. __________________ Meethoss

02-06-2004, 08:21 PM	#106
Meethoss Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Wales, UK Posts: 188	Well, I'll just have to see. Regarding my water (and worm drive clamps) I'm gonna get them tomorrow when I go pick the rest of my stuff up from Gavin. Have formatted my hard drive tonight so everything is fresh __________________ Meethoss

02-07-2004, 02:08 PM	#113
Meethoss Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Wales, UK Posts: 188	I took everything out of the old case and took all the panels off the new one, laid everything down near it so I can see what will go where etc. The heater core with the new shroud will not fit :/ I'm gonna have to make some sort of external box. The size of the rad and shroud is about 20cm wide, 20cm high and 11cm deep. I'll have to put that, the pump and the res inside the box and have some sort of DC power for the MCP600 and the fan (build in to the shroud). Any ideas? __________________ Meethoss

02-08-2004, 12:50 PM	#114
Meethoss Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Wales, UK Posts: 188	Ok, put almost everything in the case and have found with a little trimming of the shroud the rad will fit in the top, though I'll have to move the DVD drive down. It'll be a bit annoying though cause there will be a space between that and the Aerogate 2. Anyone got any suggestions of something I can put in the middle? It'll need to be 3'4" of a DVD drive depth or less and the same colour as the Aerogate. BTW, tobeyed - I mixed a little of the water with the HydrX and the dye and it made the water a kind of green-blue turqoise type colour. That was only with small amounts of additives and water so I think with a litre of water it might make it a bit darker. I might buy a little bit more blue and see how it turns out. __________________ Meethoss

02-06-2004, 08:21 AM	#102
Aardil Cooling Savant Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Louisiana Posts: 174	hydrx mix 2.8 oz. (1 bottle) to 1 Litre of Distilled water. I dont know about the dye stuff never worried about the reactive part.

02-07-2004, 05:24 AM	#107
tobyed2 Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Bristol / UK Posts: 31	Got my water from Safeways, 49p half price ! Finally seeing if things fit, pants, the Maze 4 isnt gonna fit my Radeon 8500 :-( What block "should" fit the 8500 ? Despite what block I get will I always lose the PCI slot below ? If I was to dump the 8500, any suggestions for a replacement ? Overclockable off course !

02-07-2004, 06:29 AM	#109
kusojiji Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Japan Posts: 86	Which radeon 8500 do you have? Who made it? You can write to DangerDen about it. I've had problems with non-standard video cards also. Both my Nvidia cards have non-standard mounting holes. The Swiftech adapter for the MCW50 that is used for the 5900fx cards fits my 4200-8x and 5200. As for the res, test it first, as with all your other water stuff before using it. That'll tell you if the fittings are installed correctly or not. I don't know of any waterblocks (not custom made) thin enough to save the pci slot.

02-07-2004, 09:46 AM	#111
kusojiji Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Japan Posts: 86	Got pics of it without the hsf?

02-08-2004, 03:40 PM	#115
tobyed2 Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Bristol / UK Posts: 31	It doesnt boot now ! Got all my kit in the case too, tested outstide case for 24 hours. I put it all in the case and found the GPU clips poking into the 2 pci slot down (!), I undid the first clip to rotate then thought "Ah, change soundcard with network card" NIC being a smaller card the clips on GPU go clear it. Retightened clip on GPU. Turned case upright, AH !! A LEAK. A small drop off (very obvious luminous green) water fell on the bottom of the case. It wasnt a vast amount, size of a little toe nail. Discovered coming from GPU clip, hadnt tightened it enough. Moped up water from around hose (it collected on the edge of the GPU block and dropped down). Couldnt find any other "dampness". Put everything in case. And turned on. First of all had post beep, but no graphics, turned off machine. Reseated graphics card, no post beep, still no graphics (card dry), fans/pump going. Took out graphics card replaced with known working one (not water cooled). Still no graphics, now machine doesnt even come on ! The red HD led falashes once, then nothing ... I have tried my CPU in my other machine and it works, just in case it fried (didnt think it had but you never know). I guess I must have some water still somewhere ... Will it evaporate ? How can I get rid ? It was all going so well :''

02-08-2004, 04:15 PM	#116
Meethoss Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Wales, UK Posts: 188	Um. I'd make sure you turn everything off and leave it for a day or something. Maybe put it in a warm area and see if you can use anything to dry it up. As long as you get all the water out of the way it will PROBABLY be ok. What you might also like to do is unplug a few non-essential things to be sure that you have enough power. Is your pump powered by the PSU? It could be using more power than you have. Let me know how it goes. __________________ Meethoss

02-08-2004, 04:32 PM	#117
tobyed2 Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Bristol / UK Posts: 31	Yeah, I was wondering if it was not enough juice (I've got a 350w PSU), so I have now got the pump/fan running from a 486 next to my PC (state of the art 10 years ago ). Hopefully the air circulation will help the "damp" ... Fingers crossed. Glad to here youve had as much fun as me Meethos ! I think the external box would have been alot of additional work.

02-09-2004, 06:41 AM	#118
Meethoss Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Wales, UK Posts: 188	Ok, well try what I said and let me know how it is. Gavin came around earlier to look at my stuff and he's taken away the rad/shroud and case. He'll trim the shroud and install the rad for me __________________ Meethoss

02-10-2004, 12:11 AM	#119
kusojiji Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Japan Posts: 86	You need to ensure that that 350watt ps has enough juice on the 3.3 and 5 vdc rails for your new board. Did you run it before adding the water system?

02-10-2004, 05:23 AM	#121
kusojiji Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Japan Posts: 86	The 3.3 and 5 vdc rails provide logic power and the new processors and boards need a lot. The 12vdc line is used primarily for motors, ie: fans, hard drive spindle motors, etc. I just go by my primary concern, which is the 12vdc line as I used to run a lot of fans. I don't run as many fans as before, but I still use a lot of drives. I run U160 and U320 scsi drives and they require a lot of power. My old IBM drives needed 2.5 amps each at start up on the 12vdc line. But, since your computer used to work before the water setup, and assuming that nothing else changed, then it should still work. The MCP600 pump only draws .75 amps or about two 120mm fans worth of power. Has your system dried off enough to try a restart? Try resetting the bios and unplug the hard drive.

02-10-2004, 10:03 AM	#122
Meethoss Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Wales, UK Posts: 188	That's my thinking about the power. Generally, a 350W PSU isn't enough for a water cooled setup - pretty much because if you are running when then it is most likely you are also running a high performance setup which therefore needs a lot more power. I upgraded to the GlobalWin SAF 520W for this purpose. BTW, more news on my setup. Gavin took the case and rad/shroud away to cut everything out and realised that where we were gonna put it will require more cutting from the 5.25" bay (it's inside at the top and hard to see) than would be good for the case. So he's checked out the price of aluminium from his supplier and it'll be about £20 - £30 for enough to make a box. So I'm gonna make up a design and then he'll do that for me. I'll draw something up later and post it here so you guys can pass opinions __________________ Meethoss

02-10-2004, 10:31 AM	#123
Butcher Thermophile Join Date: May 2001 Location: UK Posts: 1,064	My 300W does fine with a water cooled rig. It coped with my heavily overclocked and overvolted tbird setup (cpu alone drew 140+W) and I ran a 15krpm scsi disk in that. Even at full load my 5V line is perfectly stable at 5.0-5.03V and my 12V line sits at 11.8-12.0V. __________________ Once upon a time, in a land far far away...

02-10-2004, 05:56 PM	#124
Meethoss Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Wales, UK Posts: 188	Some people seem to be lucky with power. A system calculated to need 500W can work on a 350W PSU. It's strange. I just say go for the most stable and powerful PSU you can afford __________________ Meethoss

02-11-2004, 03:18 AM	#125
tobyed2 Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Bristol / UK Posts: 31	Mwahahaha !! It Lives ! It Lives ! My creation ! Egor wheres my brain ? Tried running a fan against the motherboard to try and dry it out, didnt work. Thought the mobo gone west so started removing stuff, turned the case onto its side and heard a case screw falling !! Dont recall losing one but sure enough it must have been causing a short somewhere, grrr. Will post a pic, need to get back on the good side of my DFA (Domestic Financial Advisor), place is a bombsite, it looks as if at least 3 PCs have vommitted parts everywhere ...

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