An End to the Insanity.

[fameless]

Originally Posted by Joe

Ok... I dont have a banana button on my calculator here... I am all kinds of confused!

yeah, you'll find that button on the TI-83B....

[pHaestus]

Or here

[ricecrispi]

I got two of them, or at least that is what the monkey in me says they are.
(
)

I don't know which one is more ripe though..

Originally Posted by pHaestus

It's a 3 dimensional problem basically and by using a much different TIM joint on the die sim (solder) than a real CPU I think you'd get pretty different results in terms of spreading. Also how does Intel do the soldering so that the system is flat when compressed via hs/fan? I don't know how one would reproduce that process?

Good point. Not exactly the grease they are slathering on the AMDs.

[Cathar]

Originally Posted by pHaestus

Procooling: Where people with high school level physics teach engineers and Ph.D chemists about the scientific method.

Only problem with that is I don't see very many people here who simply have high school levels physics qualifications.

Originally Posted by pHaestus

Since you bring up the scientific method though and have formed the hypothesis that Intel can't simulate their processors then by all means experimentally test that!

Now you're being disingenuous. No one ever said that Intel can't simulate their own processors.

Intel can and do simulate their own processors, extremely well in fact as anyone would suspect. The problem is that prior to releasing their testbed, they rip out one of the thermal probes that tells people what's going on with TIM1.

That's the only issue that has ever been discussed, and you know it.

What's with all the imflammatory rhetoric pHaestus? I had imagined that we could all be moving past this?

[bigben2k]

We need more fun threads, like this one:
http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=2727
(A blast from the past man!)

[Etacovda]

pH told me to 'go **** myself' earlier when apparently i was insulting his PhD in chemistry, even though i didnt mention it, at all, in any format. He also proceeded to belittle me for questioning INTEL (not himself) because he has a PhD.

BTW pH, ive done several mech eng papers (so this 'high school physics bullshit is unfounded) and im a qualified product designer; however, im open to the belief that others who do not have the qualifications can still do my job. Dont be so blinded by your own qualifications that you completely skew someone elses point and use your PhD as justification for it, its pathetic.

All ive been doing, FROM THE DAMN START, is asking questions and asking for quantification.

As you said earlier, no kidding, amd's are shit for testing now with their 'floating' ihs.
You also said that the 775 had been 'invalidated'... is the TTV an actual cpu, or am i missing something?

You seem to be intent on throwing your qualifcations around as justification, and JUST when we start getting somewhere, you keep throwing personal insults around? having a hard time at work at the moment, or what? because theres no justification here for it... I never personally insulted you until you starting slinging shit at me for asking questions.

Well, theres progress for you, people with phd's flaunting them around, insulting people, and refusing to have decent conversations based on the fact that the people they're talking to apparently dont know anything because they dont have a phd.

What a world.

What arrogance! Since you bring up the scientific method though and have formed the hypothesis that Intel can't simulate their processors then by all means experimentally test that!

Yeah, cause i said that. Jesus christ, i should change my sig to 'Procooling, where people with PHDs look down on others because they think they've earnt the right to twist words and generally be a hate monger'

[Voodoo Rufus]

Originally Posted by pHaestus

How do you test for that Rufus? Remember that you cannot rely on any information from Intel to make an estimate...

Why not? We know what the substance is right?

<-- Knock another one up to not just having H.S. physics. Not to insult pH, but I found in my college education in Mech/Aeronautical Engineering that the only professors with pH.D's who were worth a DAMN were the ones with actual engineering experience in the industry.

[pHaestus]

Cry me a ****ing river Etacovda.

YOU were the person that questioned my ability to use scientific principles. At that point the fact that I am, in fact, a scientist is absolutely relevant. And that is why I got so inflammatory. I don't dabble in science as part of a hobby; research is how I feed my kids and it consumes the majority of my waking time. So yea by all means call up research scientists and lecture to them about how they don't understand the scientific method. They'll all tell you to go **** yourself just like I did. Well once they stop laughing.

//edit: Why don't you post what was actually said vs. your interpretation/slant about it? Since you want to take people's words and twist them to slant public opinion the source material might be relevant.

[ricecrispi]

I know what procooling needs. Some gloves, mouth piece, a ring and a ref. Seriously.

Looks we will be losing more contributing members over this TTV issue.

[bigben2k]

Speaking of which, I just saw Cinderella Man last weekend; great movie!

[Joe]

Just when I was thinking this was going to turn civil

[ricecrispi]

Adopted Grandma said it accurately protrays the depression era and loved it.

I don't like how it protrayed Max Baer as a Ty Cobb like villian. He was actually a nice guy and was warm hearted.

With the guy he accidentally killed in the the ring, he donated all the proceeds of next 6 fights to the family. He kept helping the family out till the children grew up.
They made him out to be a stoned cold killer when he was deeply affected by the death

[bigben2k]

(for those who missed it)

[Etacovda]

Originally Posted by Joe

Just when I was thinking this was going to turn civil

People cant resist throwing their toys, its an epidemic!

[Incoherent]

Oh for f u c k s sake pHaestus.

Grow up you ****ing idiots.

All of you.

[Marci]

[Jag]

Originally Posted by Cathar

Don't know about everyone else, but I'm still asking myself: "What changed all of a sudden?".

Egos took a dominant role?

[TerraMex]

We need more fun threads

or more porn.
I vote for porn. (sfw)

[Joe]

Btw: Eta, thats weak sauce... you put a shitty sig on knocking that ProCooling has no idea how to use the scientific method, then when pH calls you on it you remove your sig and the post a reply like you did above.

Weak. can anyone say... baiting a fight?

[Joe]

You know I am getting ****ing pissed here. I have stayed on the outside of the technical "discussion" because its not my strong area. But... For **** sake. This manipulative word play has to stop.

Theres no progress being made here. All there is is people waiting for others to **** up so they can throw it back in their face. Word manipulation, taking things out of context, questioning ethics and influences on why people are saying one thing or the other... No one is listening, everyone is talking and talking and talking. ****ing take a minute to shut the **** up to LISTEN and THINK.

****ing preschoolers have better problem resolution skills than you tards. There is absolutely no honor in deliberately trying to bait people, which is all that a select few are doing here.

[Jag]

Originally Posted by Joe

You know I am getting ****ing pissed here. I have stayed on the outside of the technical "discussion" because its not my strong area. But... For **** sake. This manipulative word play has to stop.

Theres no progress being made here. All there is is people waiting for others to **** up so they can throw it back in their face. Word manipulation, taking things out of context, questioning ethics and influences on why people are saying one thing or the other... No one is listening, everyone is talking and talking and talking. ****ing take a minute to shut the **** up to LISTEN and THINK.

****ing preschoolers have better problem resolution skills than you tards. There is absolutely no honor in deliberately trying to bait people, which is all that a select few are doing here.

My take on this subject: there's no insanity about two major player leaving the arena. Why such a debate? Aren't they allowed to come back, but with some restrains (read new rules)?
From this long topic, some things Cathar said about lack of moderation are indeed true and objective. Joe's answer: in a perfect world no moderation should be necessary. Well, and no lawyers and no politicians and no cops and burglers etc.
Every society needs moderators, this forum needs one to step in when the rules are being twisted and when users go beyond certain limits.
It has to take concrete measures not simple warnings.
Furthermore i think that more or less almost everyone participated in some high inflammable threads and joined the insanity going on at the time, so each one has his quota of responsability.
Joe's presence as a moderator was scarce, no authority.

People started slowly to walk away, no one cared at the time or thought important, because in a selfish way the rationale was that while Bill Adams and Cathar (not discriminating other members) stayed in the house all was well.
The problem arose when these two members started a cat fight.
Now they left and Joe realises that it's impossible to continue with the remaining members, there's no "gang" leader, and no one cares.
On a side note: it's expected of people to make mistakes but not to leave them behind, so in this sense Bill and Cathar's reaction was irresponsible ( and starting to be a bit repetitive).

Now on a practical level:
- I don't think we should need to ask the absent members to come back, they left on their own accord, BUT, i was liking the practical method Bill Adams used lately creating his blogs, a hands on approach. I think that he was trying to come up with something, (to start anew again) which is more than i can say about other members.
Scientific method is in my view necessary, mandatory.

What i would like to see: to gather up members from this forum, and create various groups to develop test procedures and methods and then based on it assemble a testing vehicle (TTV or not).
The result would be the sum of all the effort, time and responsability put by the various members and no one could take all the credits to itself.No comercial project either, therefore no objections of bias.

NOT to open a thread and then start to transform it in some vanity fair.
Oh, and a deadline.

Procooling should once again have a leading role and it's better to have something very good, even unattainable, than to lower the standards.
Sort out the differences and create a unique platform.Is this insanity too?

[ricecrispi]

It would be very dissappointed if procooling disappears because it is such a great resource. But it seems this attempt to repair it has gone up into flames again and things have gotten worse instead of better and involving two different members.

It looks like pH has taken a stance on not continuing testing WBs in his statements in this thread. It seems after what happened I doubt he will do any testing after the insult. I don't blame him if he doesn't. It is like jumping into a pool of piranahas looking for blood. Is my assumption incorrect pH?

His contribution is undeniable but I feel Ph's work and procooling will lack a final chapter if he doesn't test on cooltechinca MP series, the apogee, and G7 if it is available. If procooling is going to end atleast put a stamp on it and go out with a bang.

[Joe]

Procooling isnt going to close up shop because some bastards are faggoting up my forums. (to use a pH term).

And moderation is a very hard thing to do in this kind of "discussion". As you can see anyone who sticks there head into it is instantly branded as being either an appologist, or ignorant, simple, or just get a knife stabbed in your back by someone who used to be an ally on the forums.

Really the only solution if these grown men choose to not come to some sort of sane level of reason... is to remove them from the site. Yes these are the current "leaders" of the forum... but shit there will be others. What other options are there? Continue to ask people to behave reasonably? and just have them ignore it?

Maybe people should stop getting so ****ing personal with all this. Yes to Eta's dismay, if i had a PhD in science fields and someone questioned my ability to use the scientific method... I would get pissed myself, and throw the fact I am a PhD back in their face. So maybe from the start people should respect others, their achievements, rankings, etc... and listen now and then.

All I see here is lots of people who THINK they know the process better than people who KNOW the process. And this is being done on multiple levels... Am I saying blindly lead? No I am saying LISTEN, and reaserch yourself, and come up with a conclusion in your own mind. Some people, and most people in this discussion... Will NEVER change their position on anything. They are right, you are wrong... As long as everyone understands that this whole thing will be over sooner. Everyone thinks their an expert on procooling... of what? who the hell knows.

[bigben2k]

Originally Posted by Jag

...
What i would like to see: to gather up members from this forum, and create various groups to develop test procedures and methods and then based on it assemble a testing vehicle (TTV or not).
The result would be the sum of all the effort, time and responsability put by the various members and no one could take all the credits to itself. No comercial project either, therefore no objections of bias. ...

Sounds awfully familiar...

The problems with that idea, is that it takes good leadership, and a format that works well (forums don't really lend themselves to such projects). We have neither here.

Joe's on to something; posting without reading. I've given up trying to figure out who's on what side, or what the argument is about; everyone has posted a new bit of information, digressing from some original argument into multiple different directions.

This thread is too long for me to sort through now (I can't even print the darn thing right!), and I will not play the role of arbitrator (not interested, and I suspect, neither is Joe), occasionally stepping in and re-capping what everyone has said and asking those involved to clarify some of their statements, if necessary.

...but it would be nice.

There's no sense in getting upset; just take a neutral stance, read and analyze what everyone is saying, recap and ask for clarifications.


With the new forum software, it's now possible to run polls and see where everyone has voted; this can come in very handy, in the middle of a discussion. Not sure where everyone stands? Setup a poll, and post a link to it from the main thread. Polls can now be set to be open for a fixed period of time (to avoid having it come up in the "new post" search everytime some joker votes on a 3 year old poll).

(Brought to you by the ProCooling 2% post whore )

[Angry_Steel]

Yes these are the current "leaders" of the forum

Leaders dont roll around in the mud, flinging it everywhere while they fight over a table scrap, at least not in front of god and everybody. Time to either swallow some pride and come to some resolution, but the resolution is hardly going to be found with public opinion or input.