The "Cascade" - mini-cup directed jet-impingement block design (56K warn) - Page 13

siavash_s_s · 08-15-2003, 07:33 PM

o srry dont take it as a bad criticism i dont mean to make fun of what you do, or change your mind or turn anyone else agianst it... just making conversation i spose...
srry :shrug: :shrug: :shrug:

BrianW · 08-16-2003, 12:40 AM

Do not mean to take away from this thread, and If a mod wants to delete I will not mind. siavash_s_s you have a bad habit of jumping in on a thread and adding nothing substantial to it's content. These threads are meant for people who are interested in advanced cooling and wish that others who are like minded will join to develop a community of resource. You have done nothing to contribute to that. Please, lurk if you must, and learn as much as you can. When you need help post a NEW topic. When you see a post asking for input, only post a reply if you believe it will help the poster.

If you merely want to make conversation, try IRC, or better yet Yahoo chat rooms....

Thanks,

BrianW

arcsylver · 08-20-2003, 10:39 PM

Wow,

I have never before enjoyed reading an entire thread so long before in my life.

Cathar you have indeed done it again with this new design.

You definitely have my order request sent in for a silver one already and I can't wait to get it so I can see what She will do for my up coming 3 Ghz P4 rig I am working on.

arcsylver · 08-22-2003, 10:26 PM

Cathar,

I was wondering something when reading in another thread where people were asking about the springs you ship with your waterblocks and thepressure they induce to the mobo.

Would it be feasible to produce a Polycarb plate to mount behind the motherboard to more evenly distribute the pressure of the xcrews to a wider area and also perhaps provide a more even clamping pressure for the block to the CPU?

Goksly · 08-23-2003, 03:07 PM

just wondering - if someone places an order for the "normal" cascade now - whats the waiting length like? almost every forum i visit someone has meantioned having or ordering one..... must be huge! :}

Cathar · 08-23-2003, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Goksly
just wondering - if someone places an order for the "normal" cascade now - whats the waiting length like? almost every forum i visit someone has meantioned having or ordering one..... must be huge! :}

I'm around 5 weeks behind the tail of the queue.

It only seems like everyone's buying one because it's relatively new and people get excited and post when they receive theirs. I've only made slightly more than 60, which just goes to show how perception of how popular an item is can really be affected by quite a small number of people.

Goksly · 08-23-2003, 08:48 PM

aye suppose your right.

might order one for xmas - hopefully the que will be down and you will have come up with another "crazy cat" idea and everyone will want that :P

M_D_K · 08-26-2003, 07:18 AM

can't wait for my Silver beast to turn up ont he door

then i can see what this CPU can really do :P

Cathar · 08-26-2003, 08:51 AM

Looky what arrived in my inbox.

Quote:

Guys....I bought (company name with-held) which holds the patent rights to direct-die waterblocks?

I'm unsure as to what to do here - love your work, but kinda makes my $$$$ investment meaningless?

Please contact me concerning this - I hate lawyers.

Doesn't apply to me of course since none of my blocks are direct-die and I seriously doubt I would ever made a direct die block even for personal use, but I thought it an interesting email anyway given that a number of people here are experimenting and venturing into direct-die cooling themselves with possible pursuit of selling one or more at a later date (Jaydee116 and Volenti come to mind).

electrip_flip · 08-26-2003, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cathar
Looky what arrived in my inbox.

Doesn't apply to me of course since none of my blocks are direct-die and I seriously doubt I would ever made a direct die block even for personal use, but I thought it an interesting email anyway given that a number of people here are experimenting and venturing into direct-die cooling themselves with possible pursuit of selling one or more at a later date (Jaydee116 and Volenti come to mind).

LOL,

maybe the letter was signed by
SCO chief executive Darl McBride,
Master of FUD.

flip

Since87 · 08-26-2003, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Guys....I bought (company name with-held) which holds the patent rights to direct-die waterblocks?

I'm unsure as to what to do here - love your work, but kinda makes my $$$$ investment meaningless?

Please contact me concerning this - I hate lawyers.

Wow, that's smarmy. You washed your hands after touching that letter, right?

electrip_flip · 08-26-2003, 09:20 AM

So pissing in the water-closet is also patented.

I mean,
technically it's the same jet-impingement in a cup.

flip

jaydee · 08-26-2003, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Guys....I bought (company name with-held) which holds the patent rights to direct-die waterblocks?

I'm unsure as to what to do here - love your work, but kinda makes my $$$$ investment meaningless?

Please contact me concerning this - I hate lawyers.

LOL. So this company has patent right to every direct-die water block ever made and ever will be made?

That's like saying GoodYear has patent rights to every tire ever made and ever will be made.

Maybe the guy should have asked himself why this company was up for sale in the first place......

Considering making a commercial direct die block just to spite these guys.

Quarter · 08-26-2003, 12:46 PM

LoL ... this must be the same fool, abcserve, that posted in a thread over at ARS claiming the same patent ownership.

ARS Thread

t00lb0x · 08-26-2003, 12:51 PM

LMAO thats it, its in the middle. But you don't own all direct die, he probably just owns some designs. Thats like saying Dtek owns alls blocks that have "mazes" Jesus people in the world like that piss me off. ARG

I hope that guy understands he owns NOTHING (except the company and THEIR designs for Direct Die).

Goksly · 08-26-2003, 12:53 PM

Why do people get so wound up? Let him go talk to his lawyers and let them explain the situation to him.

Letting him get under your skin so easily just makes people laugh at the both of you D:

t00lb0x · 08-26-2003, 03:15 PM

He doesn't get under my skin, well he does. It just pisses me off someone can be so arragant. And his "lawyers" will just waste his money anyways.

Pritorian · 08-26-2003, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by t00lb0x
LMAO thats it, its in the middle. But you don't own all direct die, he probably just owns some designs. Thats like saying Dtek owns alls blocks that have "mazes" Jesus people in the world like that piss me off. ARG I hope that guy understands he owns NOTHING (except the company and THEIR designs for Direct Die).

Yeah, the only thing he`ll get out of it would be a lawyer bill of a few 1000 dollars

jaydee · 08-26-2003, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by t00lb0x
He doesn't get under my skin, well he does. It just pisses me off someone can be so arragant. And his "lawyers" will just waste his money anyways.

Unfortuantly it isn't arrogance it is ignorance/boarder line stupidity. This fool bought Leufkins Tech and for some reason doesn't undrstand anything about what he bought. Maybe a good sales pitch by the ex-owner. For him to think he has the sole rilghts to all direct die cooling has just had me LMAO all freaking day. Did he base his purchase off of this theory? This is like Swiftech trying to use one of their patents on one of their blocks and claiming no one has any right to make another water block period no matter the design (note: they havn't done this, just an example of how rediculous this is).

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

t00lb0x · 08-26-2003, 07:17 PM

Yeah, sounds like old owner ripped him off. I guess I did confuse stupidity with arrogance, my mistake. But at least we have a good laugh

Axly · 08-27-2003, 02:21 AM

Personally I would be very interested in seeing what's written in the patent documents...

ozzy7750 · 08-27-2003, 03:42 AM

you cannot patent anything that is considered "public knowledge"

so unless direct die cooling was patented a very long time ago, it is all rubbish. if you want to patent anything, you haev to be very careful not to tell anyone anything, once the provisional is through, you are safe.

but really who cares about a patent like that, protecting it would be damn near impossible. i am sure volenti jaydee etc are making their direct die blocks different enough from the original patents specs that they would be fine

jaydee · 08-27-2003, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Axly
Personally I would be very interested in seeing what's written in the patent documents...

All he can do is patent his design. Which I know what it is. It is inferior to what I have done. All it is a big cap over the CPU with water aimed at the core. Nothing special. The design was so failed it didn't sell well and I think one of the reasons Leufkin went out of business as that was the best he could come up with.

There is no way you can patent direct die cooling, you can only patent how you have done it. Otherwise there would be no competition in the business world if every company patented each thing there is. Ford would have all the rights to making cars, Intel would have all the rights to making CPU's, Danger Den would have all the rights to making water blocks, ect... You can patent your tech, and that is it. Luckily Leufkin was not nearly as advanced back then as we are today and his patents are useless and in the hands of someone that can't even tell the difference between a direct die and a non direct die block.

gone_fishin · 08-27-2003, 09:38 AM

It's a good thing nobody put a patent <on>water

Starman97 · 10-05-2003, 01:46 AM

Direct-Die cooling is a crock..
Water is very corrosive unless it's been de-ionized and all your fittings and pipes are teflon and stainless steel. Then, once it hits the CPU chip, the electric potentials and any trace contaminants in your system are going to start galvanic chemical reactions. The water will get under the CPU die and screw up the solder balls that attach the Si chip to the organic package.
The back of the die has the smallest surface area to start with, it's basically a mirror smooth surface, adding any sort of thermally conductive heat spreader is going to improve on that.
Theres a lot of good reasons as to why direct-die cooling is not done for PC's
There may be some application where is might work, using something other than water as the coolant, but that's getting pretty exotic and expensive for a tiny gain in thermal transfer efficiency.

08-15-2003, 07:33 PM	#301
siavash_s_s Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: here n there Posts: 194	o srry dont take it as a bad criticism i dont mean to make fun of what you do, or change your mind or turn anyone else agianst it... just making conversation i spose... srry :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: __________________ buy me a mill

08-16-2003, 12:40 AM	#302
BrianW Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Desert City in California Posts: 631	Do not mean to take away from this thread, and If a mod wants to delete I will not mind. siavash_s_s you have a bad habit of jumping in on a thread and adding nothing substantial to it's content. These threads are meant for people who are interested in advanced cooling and wish that others who are like minded will join to develop a community of resource. You have done nothing to contribute to that. Please, lurk if you must, and learn as much as you can. When you need help post a NEW topic. When you see a post asking for input, only post a reply if you believe it will help the poster. If you merely want to make conversation, try IRC, or better yet Yahoo chat rooms.... Thanks, BrianW __________________ Water Cooled Inwin Q500 (Dual Rads: Rad1 = DTEK Pro Core \| Rad2 = Blick Ice Estreme, Hydor L30, Dangerden Maze2, Bay Res Typhoon Reservoir, 1/2 " DD Tygon Thick Wall Hose). Flow: Res, Pump, CPU watervlock, Y into both rads, both rads into res independently. Athlon XP 1800+ (@ 1731 - 150mhz fsb.), on a Asus A7N266-c, and a Radeon 9000 *waiting for RMA'd Saphire 9800 ultra from Newegg)

08-20-2003, 10:39 PM	#303
arcsylver Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: State of insanity Posts: 101	Wow, I have never before enjoyed reading an entire thread so long before in my life. Cathar you have indeed done it again with this new design. You definitely have my order request sent in for a silver one already and I can't wait to get it so I can see what She will do for my up coming 3 Ghz P4 rig I am working on. __________________ Been Building these things since the IBM XT and I aint about to stop now!!! Prescott 2.8Ghz @ 3.08Ghz ECS 865PE-A Mobo Corsair 768 MB PC3200 DDR HP CD-Writer 9300 Maxtor 30 GB ATA Danger Den RBX 1957 Chevy Brass Radiator Danner Mag 7 Rackmounted Dual Blower w/Thermostat All this in a 4' Server cabinet

08-22-2003, 10:26 PM	#304
arcsylver Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: State of insanity Posts: 101	Cathar, I was wondering something when reading in another thread where people were asking about the springs you ship with your waterblocks and thepressure they induce to the mobo. Would it be feasible to produce a Polycarb plate to mount behind the motherboard to more evenly distribute the pressure of the xcrews to a wider area and also perhaps provide a more even clamping pressure for the block to the CPU? __________________ Been Building these things since the IBM XT and I aint about to stop now!!! Prescott 2.8Ghz @ 3.08Ghz ECS 865PE-A Mobo Corsair 768 MB PC3200 DDR HP CD-Writer 9300 Maxtor 30 GB ATA Danger Den RBX 1957 Chevy Brass Radiator Danner Mag 7 Rackmounted Dual Blower w/Thermostat All this in a 4' Server cabinet

08-26-2003, 12:46 PM	#314
Quarter Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: San Diego, USA Posts: 15	LoL ... this must be the same fool, abcserve, that posted in a thread over at ARS claiming the same patent ownership. ARS Thread Last edited by Quarter; 08-26-2003 at 12:58 PM.

08-23-2003, 03:07 PM	#305
Goksly Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Nottingham, UK Posts: 24	just wondering - if someone places an order for the "normal" cascade now - whats the waiting length like? almost every forum i visit someone has meantioned having or ordering one..... must be huge! :}

08-23-2003, 08:48 PM	#307
Goksly Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Nottingham, UK Posts: 24	aye suppose your right. might order one for xmas - hopefully the que will be down and you will have come up with another "crazy cat" idea and everyone will want that :P

08-26-2003, 07:18 AM	#308
M_D_K Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: UK[sout] Posts: 37	can't wait for my Silver beast to turn up ont he door then i can see what this CPU can really do :P

08-26-2003, 09:20 AM	#312
electrip_flip Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 9	So pissing in the water-closet is also patented. I mean, technically it's the same jet-impingement in a cup. flip

08-26-2003, 12:51 PM	#315
t00lb0x Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2003 Location: In a box Posts: 221	LMAO thats it, its in the middle. But you don't own all direct die, he probably just owns some designs. Thats like saying Dtek owns alls blocks that have "mazes" Jesus people in the world like that piss me off. ARG I hope that guy understands he owns NOTHING (except the company and THEIR designs for Direct Die). __________________ "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit"

08-26-2003, 12:53 PM	#316
Goksly Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Nottingham, UK Posts: 24	Why do people get so wound up? Let him go talk to his lawyers and let them explain the situation to him. Letting him get under your skin so easily just makes people laugh at the both of you D:

08-26-2003, 03:15 PM	#317
t00lb0x Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2003 Location: In a box Posts: 221	He doesn't get under my skin, well he does. It just pisses me off someone can be so arragant. And his "lawyers" will just waste his money anyways. __________________ "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit"

08-26-2003, 07:17 PM	#320
t00lb0x Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2003 Location: In a box Posts: 221	Yeah, sounds like old owner ripped him off. I guess I did confuse stupidity with arrogance, my mistake. But at least we have a good laugh __________________ "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit"

08-27-2003, 02:21 AM	#321
Axly Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Sweden Posts: 20	Personally I would be very interested in seeing what's written in the patent documents...

08-27-2003, 03:42 AM	#322
ozzy7750 Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 42	you cannot patent anything that is considered "public knowledge" so unless direct die cooling was patented a very long time ago, it is all rubbish. if you want to patent anything, you haev to be very careful not to tell anyone anything, once the provisional is through, you are safe. but really who cares about a patent like that, protecting it would be damn near impossible. i am sure volenti jaydee etc are making their direct die blocks different enough from the original patents specs that they would be fine

08-27-2003, 09:38 AM	#324
gone_fishin Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2002 Location: Da UP Posts: 517	It's a good thing nobody put a patent <on>water Last edited by gone_fishin; 08-27-2003 at 02:36 PM.

10-05-2003, 01:46 AM	#325
Starman97 Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Austin,TX Posts: 27	Direct-Die cooling is a crock.. Water is very corrosive unless it's been de-ionized and all your fittings and pipes are teflon and stainless steel. Then, once it hits the CPU chip, the electric potentials and any trace contaminants in your system are going to start galvanic chemical reactions. The water will get under the CPU die and screw up the solder balls that attach the Si chip to the organic package. The back of the die has the smallest surface area to start with, it's basically a mirror smooth surface, adding any sort of thermally conductive heat spreader is going to improve on that. Theres a lot of good reasons as to why direct-die cooling is not done for PC's There may be some application where is might work, using something other than water as the coolant, but that's getting pretty exotic and expensive for a tiny gain in thermal transfer efficiency.

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