Mapp as a refrigerant?

[hydrogen18]

Methly Acetate Propandine Stabilized

Which is just methane and propane? propane is already a great refrigerant, but methane is better(i think). So wouldnt this be better than propane and still easily available?

[Enyin]

Very interesting -- if you think about it, mapp would probably perform somewhere between pure R50 and the popular methane derivatives R12 and R22 - the mix of propane would help decrease the high pressure requirement that a pure methane system would need:

quoted from a basic refrigeration site:
----------------------------------------------------
R50(methane): this moderately light gas with a boiling point of -162C is the base compound for most of today’s refrigerants - in its pure form it is a bit too light(molecular weight 16) to work with outside of a cascade cooler. Though this can be used in a system of its own you will be needing pressures nearing the 450 mark on a warm day to liquefy. So overall a great additive or for use in a cascade cooler.

Unfortunately it seems that Mapp is trademarked and I can't find any detail about it's chemical properties or makeup (ie what if it's 99% propane and 1% methane)

In a non cascade system I think you'd need a hardcore compressor for mapp - again it all depends on the % makeup of propane to methane to other gasses in it. Hell it sure would be a fun experiment though

Any students out there that have access to a spectrum analyzer of some sort that could take apart Mapp gas for us?

Hehe, on this same thought how bout HELIUM as a refrigerant, also very readily available!! Boils at -268.6 °C OMG rar
Get a very strong compressor, a very small metering device, some titanium tubing and design a custom oil injection system to feed the compressor and you're in business....booya!

[redleader]

Try emailing them. Say you're interesting in evaluating it for some project.

[Alchemy]

Originally posted by hydrogen18
Methly Acetate Propandine Stabilized

Which is just methane and propane? propane is already a great refrigerant, but methane is better(i think). So wouldnt this be better than propane and still easily available?

Geez.

methyl acetate =! methane =! methyl acetylene

propadiene =! propane

MAPP = methyl acetylene propadiene

Mind the spelling. Every letter in organic chemistry means something.

Methyl acetate is the reeking stuff from fingernail polish remover.

Propadiene I don't know much about.

I've heard reports MAPP destroys copper, but nothing verified.

http://www.e-barnettww.com/MSDS/000429.pdf

At least it won't kill the **** out of you. OSHA PEL (Personnel exposure limit) is 1000 ppm, so you're probably safe with it if you use some common sense - well-ventilated area, some sort of facial protection, etc.

This has been your engineering safety brief.

Alchemy

[Alchemy]

Originally posted by Enyin
Unfortunately it seems that Mapp is trademarked and I can't find any detail about it's chemical properties or makeup (ie what if it's 99% propane and 1% methane)

It's not trademarked; it's a standard industrial mixture. Companies simply don't want to give the exact mixture of methyl acetylene to propadiene. I'm sure there's an MSDS somewhere that would tell you.

In a non cascade system I think you'd need a hardcore compressor for mapp - again it all depends on the % makeup of propane to methane to other gasses in it. Hell it sure would be a fun experiment though

What makes you think so? The properties of methyl acetate are nothing like methane.

Any students out there that have access to a spectrum analyzer of some sort that could take apart Mapp gas for us?

This is sorta overkill.

Alchemy

[Enyin]

Sorry sir, I'm not sure exactly what I said to make you so angry - you sure did tear me apart but you didn't provide any useful or contradictory information about the topic at hand beyond saying 'I'm an idiot'

AND I have to point out that you are wrong...MAPP is a registered trademark of the BOC group, inc. I'm sure there's similar generic mixtures but the product MAPP (notice the little R in a circle always next to it) is not generic

I also have to disagree about the properties - I'm no chemist but I figured based on common sense that MAPP's properties would be somewhere between Methane and Propane - you are right that "methyl acetate =! methane =! methyl acetylene / propadiene =! propane" but please see below - I still don't think I was far off in my uneducated assumptions


Propane
-------------------
Molecular Weight: 44.097
Boiling Point: -43.67°F ( -42.04°C) @ 1 atm
Specific Gravity: 1.5223 At 70°F (21.1°C) @ 1 atm, Air = 1
Freezing/Melting Point: -305.84F (-187.69C) at 1 atm
Vapor Pressure: 109.73 psig, (756.56 kPa) at 70°F (21.2°)
Vapor Density: 0.110 lb./cu ft (1.1.77kg/CuM), At 70°F (21.1°C) @ 1 atm
Expansion Ratio: 1 to 290 at 70°F (21.1°C)

Methane
-------------------------------
Physical state (gas, liquid, solid) : Gas
Vapor pressure : Not Available
Vapor density (Air = 1) : Not Available
Evaporation point : Not Available
Boiling point : -161.5 oC
Freezing point : -182.5 oC
pH : Not Applicable
Specific gravity : 0.55

MAPP
------------------------------
Physical state (gas, liquid, solid) : Gas
Vapor pressure at 70oF : 97 psia
Vapor density (Air = 1) : Not Available
Evaporation point : Not Available
Boiling point : -48 to -23 oC
Freezing point : -120 oC
pH : Not Available
Specific gravity : 0.571 (Liquid)

So if you have some information that is relevant for this discussion and helps answer the original question please by all means post it - I did just see it mentioned somewhere that MAPP may be incompatible with copper and silver so that might rule it out in a standard system.