Why we won't discuss Hammer cooling

airspirit · 10-17-2002, 12:45 PM

Since it will not be out until the end of next year. AMD is revising their processor roadmap yet again, having the Barton appear at the end of Q1, the Opteron appear at the end of Q2, and the Clawhammer appearing in Q4 sometime (possibly in time for Christmas 2003). Stories on this are being reported at www.amdzone.com , www.amdmb.com , and www.overclockers.com .

I don't know about you, but I've been waiting for a hammer since 2001, and I'm about mad enough to firebomb AMD collective @ss. Speculation leads me to believe it will be the 1-8 way MP version of the Opteron, rather than the 1-2 way MP that will be released at the end of the first half of 03. Unfortunately, the pinset (socket) is different between the 1-8 way Opteron and the 1-2 way Opteron (clawhammer) which means that any hardware released for it will be geared toward server use (in other words, good luck finding an OC board for those bastards, or a board geared toward the desktop for that matter).

I don't know about you, but I'd be hard pressed to buy a server Opteron with a DDR controller onboard when dual channel DDR/DDR-II would be coming out in the months following. Further, since the Clawhammer is initially being released with a DDR controller in Q4 (!!!) it will be obsolete before it hits the shelf. I don't know about you, but I think that the Hammer platform has just died, and that we'll be using Bartons until Intel steals us all when AMD closes its doors. I was so looking forward to picking up a Clawhammer in april or may ... now it looks like I'll probably be looking at Intel for my next upgrade.

MeltMan · 10-17-2002, 01:04 PM

Sniff... Sniff.... Why'd ya have to go and say it!? WHY???

Unfortunately, what you said seems pretty realistic.

bigben2k · 10-17-2002, 01:09 PM

Go Barton!

I'm sure that AMD wants to come out with something serious, something that could actually compete with Intel's server solution, so if they need more time, then all the best.

As for our Hammers, well, it'll be nice, but since there is no software whatsoever out there, it would really be jumping the gun to release one right now. On the plus side, it will be 32bit backward compatible, where Intel's solution isn't, so if you look at it, this AMD product will serve a lot of people that are in the transition from 32 to 64 bit. The thing is, it's just that: a transition tool. Since the transition hasn't even begun yet, WHAT THE HECK ARE YA'LL CRYING ABOUT???

airspirit · 10-17-2002, 01:34 PM

I want to get this ramped up now!!! I want to go FASTER FASTER FASTER!!! WAH!!! Anyway, SuSE Linux 64 supports x86-64, and Windows XP 64 x86-64 edition is ready whenever AMD is, from what I've gathered. I want more speed, plain and simple. I want AGP 3.0 (I know you can get it now, but I don't want to waste more money doing an incremental upgrade). I want PCI-X. I want Hypertransport. I want big-busted women feeding me grapes! What they promised was a revolution in speed by, um, entire quarters ago, and now we get pushed back another year.

On another note, www.amdzone.com has a story on DDR-II chipsets being released in Q2 of 2003. Further, Samsung is discontinuing SDRAM production and going strictly to DDR. Also, they are saying that DDR-II is backwards compatible. All of this points to the proposition that the Hammer is probably DOA if they indeed push this back until next Christmas.

dax · 10-17-2002, 02:11 PM

Now don't be too negative... if they release them around next christmas, they might as well release them with a DDR-II controler... now that would be nice!
Maybe they figured out they shouldn't make it an itanic, and postprone the release date a bit more so they can tweak the chip a bit more... Wouldn't suprise me...

airspirit · 10-17-2002, 03:43 PM

Clarification: AMD asks us to point out that Hammer schedules haven't slipped from its previous advice, as we originally suggested in this article. A spokesman from the company told us that desktop versions of Hammer are still planned to ship (for revenue) in Q1 2003 with systems on shelves at the turn of Q1 2003, not the second half of 2003 as we stated.

This has been posted on a number of sites. It looks like people have been popping off at the mouth again without thinking. It looks like it may be a 64 bit summer next year after all.

HMB · 10-17-2002, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by airspirit
It looks like people have been popping off at the mouth again without thinking.

And who come I to think of when u say that?

airspirit · 10-17-2002, 04:19 PM

I admit, I was part of the chaos ... the people that I was referring to were the big hardware sites that should know better. Not that /I/ shouldn't know better than to trust half of what they say, but ....

pHaestus · 10-17-2002, 04:42 PM

My next system will be Intel barring some miracle

BillA · 10-17-2002, 06:49 PM

hisssssssssss

so when can we expect those temp controlled benchmarks ?

Can O' Beans · 10-17-2002, 07:38 PM

I wouldn't even bother buying anything comming up in the next few months... too many higher end stuff being released too soon after.

I just bought a 1.6A P4, a $93 Albatron board & some XMS 3500 RAM to build a system to play around with and test out some watercooling designs

and I'll just wait a year until they release all the new technology and (the main part) get it stable, 100% certified, 100% accepted, etc... unlike the 8x AGP, etc... problems out now.

Blackeagle · 10-17-2002, 08:33 PM

Beans is right. Next summer or even fall.

sunblade · 10-17-2002, 08:49 PM

Maybe AMD is waiting for Doom3

But isn't Intel also not releasing anything big after hyper-threading until the seond half of next year (desktop-wise)? It sounds like AMD and Intel are trying to play nice...

pHaestus · 10-17-2002, 09:14 PM

Intel isn't playing nice. They will keep the price AMD can get for chips low low low, and then they are keeping the 1.8 NW (c1 and SUPER o/cable) around for nearly another year. That will erode the "budget enthusiast" aka o/cer market for AMD further.

tim-may · 10-17-2002, 09:37 PM

im tending to agree with the people that plan on waiting while this new technology storm blows over. personally, as long as i can get a OCed 2ghz xp system going with a good water/pelt system i can convert over to future chips, ill be happy for a good 1 to 1.5 years.

jtroutma · 10-17-2002, 11:45 PM

Here's one more joining in on the waiting game. I dont see the point of upgrading my platform when Hammer is still on the horizon (or I hope it is still there

)

If I can squeeze 2.0Ghz out of this :unexpected: XP upgrade that I did, I would be MORE than happy till Hammer comes out.

Go AMD!!!!

ambient · 10-18-2002, 12:16 AM

its gonna be fun to watch or sad. If you look at these numbers and these ones too and also these ones . Not that this is what the end product will be, but it doesn't look like a 2ghz opteron will be all that great, unless they can get it to use ddr-|| or OC real good.

#Rotor · 10-22-2002, 01:43 AM

then again Cray might know something we don't...

Linkage...

bigben2k · 10-24-2002, 10:06 AM

Right on.

I read in one of the many mags I get, that Intel can't release a 64 bit Pentium, without seriously compromising its server class Itanium, and the $1 billion invested in its development.

It looks like Intel might let AMD get its 32/64 bit solution out first!

airspirit · 10-24-2002, 12:13 PM

From what I've seen, Yamhill has been dead since late '01. The interesting thing is that I've also heard rumors of x86-64 registers in their new chips supposed to be coming out in 2H '03, but that they are disabled (is that the Prescott? I don't pay much attention to Intel). It seems that if that is correct, when AMD's 64 bit solution works, Intel can quickly make the change in their chips and compete head to head on an even playing field. The assumption here is that x86-64 is a hit: while my inner geek is cheering and dancing with goblin-like glee, I don't know that Joe Sixpack will give a flying-funt about 64 bit (especially when the Blue Man group starts painting "32 b1t rul3z" on things with spit-up marshmallows).

MadDogMe · 10-25-2002, 03:18 AM

For all the shadows of destruction and doom hanging over AMD, .., well they're still here, still had the best products since I cant remember *bang for buck* was invented because of AMD, before that it was "bang your head against a wall because of the bucks!", they made Intel turn around and redesign the game. LoL the NW's only been 'uncrippled' a few months, would Intel of even bothered before. No we'd have lumped it...

Joe · 10-25-2002, 09:53 AM

I am happy with AMD and Intel in my machines. My Intel boxes just keep running, never a glitch never an issue for years with almost 0 maint. My AMD boxes on the other hand are always a nice handful every few months... something breaks, something just gets weird for a few days, driver issues, etc...

my next setup in my main rig may very well be Dual Xeon's to replace the Dual athlon setup I have now. That wont happen for atleast another year though.. there is nothing that the Dual 1.4Ghz athlons I have cant do right now, and I dont think anything will outpace what they can dish out for atleast 2 years. ( remember most games like Doom3 will require one helluva video card and not rely terribly much on the CPU clock).

I see AMD as like the Camaro of CPU's while Intel is the BMW. One has a ton more fit and finish, and some nice power, while the other has the power, but beyond the engine isnt that nice of a car. ( now all you F Body zealots just back off!) hehehe

ambient · 10-25-2002, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MadDogMe
For all the shadows of destruction and doom hanging over AMD, .., well they're still here, still had the best products since I cant remember *bang for buck* was invented because of AMD, before that it was "bang your head against a wall because of the bucks!", they made Intel turn around and redesign the game. LoL the NW's only been 'uncrippled' a few months, would Intel of even bothered before. No we'd have lumped it...

You're damn right m8. If amd wasn't around we'd all be like "ok I guess I'm gonna have to pay 700$ for that 1.8aGHz p4."

#Rotor · 10-25-2002, 04:50 PM

and most of us would have been smiling to the bank, to go get another overdraft, so we can buy it.... because we would be thinking we are getting a bargain at never before seen low prices... how gullible we would have been.....

I dono... My AMD's are all pretty damn reliable... the only pc not AMD is my wife's P2 233 and it used to be a nice OC'er, but lately it's just not so keen anymore.

redleader · 10-25-2002, 06:03 PM

Quote:

and the $1 billion invested in its development.

Hehe they've put a LOT more in Itainium that.

10-17-2002, 12:45 PM	#1
airspirit Been /.'d... have you? Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,986	Why we won't discuss Hammer cooling Since it will not be out until the end of next year. AMD is revising their processor roadmap yet again, having the Barton appear at the end of Q1, the Opteron appear at the end of Q2, and the Clawhammer appearing in Q4 sometime (possibly in time for Christmas 2003). Stories on this are being reported at www.amdzone.com , www.amdmb.com , and www.overclockers.com . I don't know about you, but I've been waiting for a hammer since 2001, and I'm about mad enough to firebomb AMD collective @ss. Speculation leads me to believe it will be the 1-8 way MP version of the Opteron, rather than the 1-2 way MP that will be released at the end of the first half of 03. Unfortunately, the pinset (socket) is different between the 1-8 way Opteron and the 1-2 way Opteron (clawhammer) which means that any hardware released for it will be geared toward server use (in other words, good luck finding an OC board for those bastards, or a board geared toward the desktop for that matter). I don't know about you, but I'd be hard pressed to buy a server Opteron with a DDR controller onboard when dual channel DDR/DDR-II would be coming out in the months following. Further, since the Clawhammer is initially being released with a DDR controller in Q4 (!!!) it will be obsolete before it hits the shelf. I don't know about you, but I think that the Hammer platform has just died, and that we'll be using Bartons until Intel steals us all when AMD closes its doors. I was so looking forward to picking up a Clawhammer in april or may ... now it looks like I'll probably be looking at Intel for my next upgrade. __________________ #!/bin/sh {who;} {last;} {pause;} {grep;} {touch;} {unzip;} mount /dev/girl -t {wet;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} echo yes yes yes {yes;} umount {/dev/girl;zip;} rm -rf {wet.spot;} {sleep;} finger: permission denied

10-17-2002, 01:04 PM	#2
MeltMan Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: KS Posts: 374	Sniff... Sniff.... Why'd ya have to go and say it!? WHY??? Unfortunately, what you said seems pretty realistic. __________________ MeltMan Lurker Supreme!

10-17-2002, 01:09 PM	#3
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Go Barton! I'm sure that AMD wants to come out with something serious, something that could actually compete with Intel's server solution, so if they need more time, then all the best. As for our Hammers, well, it'll be nice, but since there is no software whatsoever out there, it would really be jumping the gun to release one right now. On the plus side, it will be 32bit backward compatible, where Intel's solution isn't, so if you look at it, this AMD product will serve a lot of people that are in the transition from 32 to 64 bit. The thing is, it's just that: a transition tool. Since the transition hasn't even begun yet, WHAT THE HECK ARE YA'LL CRYING ABOUT??? __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

10-17-2002, 01:34 PM	#4
airspirit Been /.'d... have you? Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,986	I want to get this ramped up now!!! I want to go FASTER FASTER FASTER!!! WAH!!! Anyway, SuSE Linux 64 supports x86-64, and Windows XP 64 x86-64 edition is ready whenever AMD is, from what I've gathered. I want more speed, plain and simple. I want AGP 3.0 (I know you can get it now, but I don't want to waste more money doing an incremental upgrade). I want PCI-X. I want Hypertransport. I want big-busted women feeding me grapes! What they promised was a revolution in speed by, um, entire quarters ago, and now we get pushed back another year. On another note, www.amdzone.com has a story on DDR-II chipsets being released in Q2 of 2003. Further, Samsung is discontinuing SDRAM production and going strictly to DDR. Also, they are saying that DDR-II is backwards compatible. All of this points to the proposition that the Hammer is probably DOA if they indeed push this back until next Christmas. __________________ #!/bin/sh {who;} {last;} {pause;} {grep;} {touch;} {unzip;} mount /dev/girl -t {wet;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} echo yes yes yes {yes;} umount {/dev/girl;zip;} rm -rf {wet.spot;} {sleep;} finger: permission denied

10-17-2002, 03:43 PM	#6
airspirit Been /.'d... have you? Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,986	Clarification: AMD asks us to point out that Hammer schedules haven't slipped from its previous advice, as we originally suggested in this article. A spokesman from the company told us that desktop versions of Hammer are still planned to ship (for revenue) in Q1 2003 with systems on shelves at the turn of Q1 2003, not the second half of 2003 as we stated. This has been posted on a number of sites. It looks like people have been popping off at the mouth again without thinking. It looks like it may be a 64 bit summer next year after all. __________________ #!/bin/sh {who;} {last;} {pause;} {grep;} {touch;} {unzip;} mount /dev/girl -t {wet;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} echo yes yes yes {yes;} umount {/dev/girl;zip;} rm -rf {wet.spot;} {sleep;} finger: permission denied

10-17-2002, 02:11 PM	#5
dax Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Ghent, Belgium Posts: 83	Now don't be too negative... if they release them around next christmas, they might as well release them with a DDR-II controler... now that would be nice! Maybe they figured out they shouldn't make it an itanic, and postprone the release date a bit more so they can tweak the chip a bit more... Wouldn't suprise me...

10-17-2002, 04:19 PM	#8
airspirit Been /.'d... have you? Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,986	I admit, I was part of the chaos ... the people that I was referring to were the big hardware sites that should know better. Not that /I/ shouldn't know better than to trust half of what they say, but .... __________________ #!/bin/sh {who;} {last;} {pause;} {grep;} {touch;} {unzip;} mount /dev/girl -t {wet;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} echo yes yes yes {yes;} umount {/dev/girl;zip;} rm -rf {wet.spot;} {sleep;} finger: permission denied

10-17-2002, 04:42 PM	#9
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	My next system will be Intel barring some miracle

10-17-2002, 06:49 PM	#10
BillA CoolingWorks Tech Guy Formerly "Unregistered" Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Posts: 2,371.493,106 Posts: 4,440	hisssssssssss so when can we expect those temp controlled benchmarks ?

10-17-2002, 07:38 PM	#11
Can O' Beans Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Pa - USA Posts: 264	I wouldn't even bother buying anything comming up in the next few months... too many higher end stuff being released too soon after. I just bought a 1.6A P4, a $93 Albatron board & some XMS 3500 RAM to build a system to play around with and test out some watercooling designs and I'll just wait a year until they release all the new technology and (the main part) get it stable, 100% certified, 100% accepted, etc... unlike the 8x AGP, etc... problems out now.

10-17-2002, 08:33 PM	#12
Blackeagle Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: U.S.A = Michigan Posts: 1,243	Beans is right. Next summer or even fall.

10-17-2002, 08:49 PM	#13
sunblade Registered User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: USA Posts: 156	Maybe AMD is waiting for Doom3 But isn't Intel also not releasing anything big after hyper-threading until the seond half of next year (desktop-wise)? It sounds like AMD and Intel are trying to play nice...

10-17-2002, 09:14 PM	#14
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	Intel isn't playing nice. They will keep the price AMD can get for chips low low low, and then they are keeping the 1.8 NW (c1 and SUPER o/cable) around for nearly another year. That will erode the "budget enthusiast" aka o/cer market for AMD further.

10-17-2002, 09:37 PM	#15
tim-may Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: California Posts: 161	im tending to agree with the people that plan on waiting while this new technology storm blows over. personally, as long as i can get a OCed 2ghz xp system going with a good water/pelt system i can convert over to future chips, ill be happy for a good 1 to 1.5 years. __________________ AMD Althon XP 1700+ JUIHB 0302 @ 2Ghz (air cooled) 10.5 Multiplier X 191 FSB = 2005 Epox 8RDA OCZ PC3500 512mb EL (SYNC CAS2-2-2-4-2) eVGA Ti4200 64mb @ 285/570 (stock air cooling) Antec True550 Antec True430 for 220w pelt

10-17-2002, 11:45 PM	#16
jtroutma Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: SLO, CA Posts: 837	Here's one more joining in on the waiting game. I dont see the point of upgrading my platform when Hammer is still on the horizon (or I hope it is still there ) If I can squeeze 2.0Ghz out of this :unexpected: XP upgrade that I did, I would be MORE than happy till Hammer comes out. Go AMD!!!! __________________ Athlon64 X2 4200+ @ 2.5Ghz (250FSB x 10) OCZ VX 1GB 4000 @ 250FSB (6-2-2-2 timmings) DFI LANParty nForce4 Ultra-D SCSI Raid 5 x (3) Cheetah 15K HDDs LSI Express 500 (128MB cache) OCZ PowerStream 520W PSU ATI X850XT PE (Stock) DTEK WhiteWater + DTEK Custom Radiator Eheim 1250

10-18-2002, 12:16 AM	#17
ambient Cooling Savant Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Planet Earth Posts: 312	its gonna be fun to watch or sad. If you look at these numbers and these ones too and also these ones . Not that this is what the end product will be, but it doesn't look like a 2ghz opteron will be all that great, unless they can get it to use ddr-\|\| or OC real good. __________________ water cooled 1.4 tbird @ 1580 143x11 vcore 1.88 vio 3.55

10-22-2002, 01:43 AM	#18
#Rotor Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dione, sector 4s1256 Posts: 852	then again Cray might know something we don't... Linkage... __________________ There is no Spoon....

10-24-2002, 10:06 AM	#19
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Right on. I read in one of the many mags I get, that Intel can't release a 64 bit Pentium, without seriously compromising its server class Itanium, and the $1 billion invested in its development. It looks like Intel might let AMD get its 32/64 bit solution out first! __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

10-24-2002, 12:13 PM	#20
airspirit Been /.'d... have you? Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,986	From what I've seen, Yamhill has been dead since late '01. The interesting thing is that I've also heard rumors of x86-64 registers in their new chips supposed to be coming out in 2H '03, but that they are disabled (is that the Prescott? I don't pay much attention to Intel). It seems that if that is correct, when AMD's 64 bit solution works, Intel can quickly make the change in their chips and compete head to head on an even playing field. The assumption here is that x86-64 is a hit: while my inner geek is cheering and dancing with goblin-like glee, I don't know that Joe Sixpack will give a flying-funt about 64 bit (especially when the Blue Man group starts painting "32 b1t rul3z" on things with spit-up marshmallows). __________________ #!/bin/sh {who;} {last;} {pause;} {grep;} {touch;} {unzip;} mount /dev/girl -t {wet;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} echo yes yes yes {yes;} umount {/dev/girl;zip;} rm -rf {wet.spot;} {sleep;} finger: permission denied

10-25-2002, 03:18 AM	#21
MadDogMe Thermophile Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Just shut up ;) ... Posts: 1,068	For all the shadows of destruction and doom hanging over AMD, .., well they're still here, still had the best products since I cant remember bang for buck was invented because of AMD, before that it was "bang your head against a wall because of the bucks!", they made Intel turn around and redesign the game. LoL the NW's only been 'uncrippled' a few months, would Intel of even bothered before. No we'd have lumped it...

10-25-2002, 09:53 AM	#22
Joe The Pro/Life Support System Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 4,041	I am happy with AMD and Intel in my machines. My Intel boxes just keep running, never a glitch never an issue for years with almost 0 maint. My AMD boxes on the other hand are always a nice handful every few months... something breaks, something just gets weird for a few days, driver issues, etc... my next setup in my main rig may very well be Dual Xeon's to replace the Dual athlon setup I have now. That wont happen for atleast another year though.. there is nothing that the Dual 1.4Ghz athlons I have cant do right now, and I dont think anything will outpace what they can dish out for atleast 2 years. ( remember most games like Doom3 will require one helluva video card and not rely terribly much on the CPU clock). I see AMD as like the Camaro of CPU's while Intel is the BMW. One has a ton more fit and finish, and some nice power, while the other has the power, but beyond the engine isnt that nice of a car. ( now all you F Body zealots just back off!) hehehe __________________ Joe - I only take this hat off for one thing... ProCooling archive curator and dusty skeleton.

10-25-2002, 04:50 PM	#24
#Rotor Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dione, sector 4s1256 Posts: 852	and most of us would have been smiling to the bank, to go get another overdraft, so we can buy it.... because we would be thinking we are getting a bargain at never before seen low prices... how gullible we would have been..... I dono... My AMD's are all pretty damn reliable... the only pc not AMD is my wife's P2 233 and it used to be a nice OC'er, but lately it's just not so keen anymore. __________________ There is no Spoon....

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