1U/MicroATX Case -- WaterCooling!!

USFJoseph · 10-24-2002, 06:57 AM

Hello everyone! I have just recently acquired this case:

I've determined already that I'm going with the Asus Nvidia board (has a geforce2 chip integrated!). I'm also going to upgrade the 95watt psu that comes with it to a 250watt (maybe 300) 1u power supply. My question is about watercooling it. As you know space is limited so here's a pic of the insides:

What I figure I'll do is rip that speaker up front out & put the water cooling stuff up there (eg: radiator & fan). Your looking top down & I'm going to put an acrylic window on the top so everything will be mounted to that. What I'm looking for is suggestions. Right now I'm looking at a black ice micro due to the size but if anyone has any other suggestions for micro watercooling projects I would really appreciate it! I don't have exact size specs yet though -- UPS says the package won't get here till the 29th.

Thanks for any suggestions!

Joseph
jgruber@tampabay.rr.com

bigben2k · 10-24-2002, 08:36 AM

You can find a similarly shaped PSU at allelectronics.com . They have this overstock of HP supplies which might fit.

For a rad, I'd go with a BIM (Black Ice micro), cut some vents on both sides of the box, and put a very thin fan in there.

Since a floppy is out (right?), I guess that this is going to be a surfing station?

USFJoseph · 10-24-2002, 08:39 AM

Yeah, floppy is out. No needs for floppys anymore - Just one 80GB HD & one CDRW/DVD (both go under the cdrom section in the upper right).

I was looking at the BlackIce Micro but I'm worried about the cooling. I'm looking at an AMD Athlon XP 2000 right now (maybe a 2200) -- You think with a good enough 80MM fan that the BIM will be able to handle that? I'm only going to be cooling the processor and nothing else.

Also right now it's looking like the pump might need to go outside the case unless anyone has any suggestions as well for some micro pumps. I have a 2" x 2" x 2" pump in my aquarium which kicks out 300gph per hour but it's not fitted for watercooling.

Thanks for any ideas.
Joseph

pHaestus · 10-24-2002, 09:15 AM

I am not sure 2200+s can be cooled...

bigben2k · 10-24-2002, 09:48 AM

I'm sure it can be cooled, but not likely to be OC'ed. The fan is going to be critical.

As for a pump, someone here used a 12 volt pump. Check out the pump roundup thread.

pHaestus · 10-24-2002, 10:48 AM

http://www.procooling.com/~phaestus/desktop.JPG

(innovatek block, BI Extreme, 80cfm fan, 300 GPH pump, 1/2" silicone blah blah)

XP 1600+ @ 1900MHz 2.05V is 45C for comparison...

bigben2k · 10-24-2002, 11:02 AM

I meant "OC'ed with that setup"!

As for the pump, check out Stepback's unit:
pump roundup at the bottom of the page. It should do the trick.

pHaestus · 10-24-2002, 11:25 AM

heh and I was using my o/ced chip as evidence that they can't typically be cooled

USFJoseph · 10-24-2002, 11:41 AM

Nice pump! However, there are some comments on that page that make me wonder about it. Is it reliable enough to cool an XP 2000? Farthest it will be pushing the water is about 12"

From my unscientific measurements using that picture it looks a 120MM MIGHT fit in that area -- if so I'm going with the Black Ice Pro & the 25MM width 120MM so 50mm total width...that should work great (hopefully if it fits!).

Any advice on the pump is greatly appreciated. If that pump really works well I think that might just work then.

Can't wait for my first lan party after this case is done. Hehe.

Joseph
jgruber@tampabay.rr.com

BTW, anyone know of any place that laser cuts the panels on a case? I'd dremel it but because of the width I don't want to put on siding so I'd like to get the panel laser cut so it is nice & smooth. Thanks!

bigben2k · 10-24-2002, 11:49 AM

Actually, max head is 4 feet, which isn't great, but will allow to to watercool your rig. OC is more than likely out though. If you combine that pump with one of #rotor's 1U blocks, you should be able to get decent flow. If you can indeed fit a BIP in there, all the better. Try to put a shroud: it will help circulate the air better. The fan should be pulling the air through, not pushing.

I think you'll be using 1/4 or 3/8 inch ID tubing.

For panel cutting, check out pHaestus latest article: he had his water cut.

USFJoseph · 10-24-2002, 11:53 AM

#rotor's 1u blocks? Where do you find that at? Tried doing a search on google but found nothing.

Again thanks!
Joseph

P.S. Not planning on doing any OCing. Going from an 850 duron to a XP2000 will more than take care of my speed problems

bigben2k · 10-24-2002, 11:55 AM

Try sending an e-mail to this member: #rotor

#rotor profile here

Check out this thread for more info.

airspirit · 10-24-2002, 12:07 PM

If you're looking at cooling a 2000+ or higher (especially a 2200+ fireball), you might consider an external radiator. I know, I know, self containment is nice, but sticking a full WC unit AND computer in a 1U case is tough. You have to sacrifice on radiator airflow and size (severely), you can't really use a res (unless it is really tiny or you have an external radiator), and your pump needs to be small as well. If I was trying it, and I could find a pump and block (#rotor) that works, I'd find a decent radiator and mount it externally. Otherwise you'd have to do some drastic mods and use a mini (ineffective) rad. My .02.

bigben2k · 10-24-2002, 12:20 PM

I don't know about that... put a BIP in there, add vents on either side of the case, it should work.

#Rotor · 10-24-2002, 11:25 PM

oooo wow... just look at what happens when I get busy on stuff, and don't check up....

thanks for the mentions there BB2K

a self contained U1 LC setup.... owha righty..... you are the daring kind....

here is pictures of the U1 blocks I'm building for some nasty Cluster action just south the border here...

U1

the U1 block in action with elbows
a nice side view

the rad and the reservoir

I think, the only radiator you might be able to fit is one of these thin oil-coolers, they are very potent.... I just don't know where you gonna get space for the fans...

koslov · 10-25-2002, 12:29 AM

Go to http://www.lytron.com/standard/exchangers.asp. They have lots of radiators in all sizes, all pretty thin. I recommend a 6105 or 6110 with a low profile 120mm fan. Pretty expensive new ($112 and $118), but they are top-of-the-line radiators that far surpass anything comparable. Alternatively, you could purchase a similar heat exchanger made by Thermatron, like this one: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=1780188858 . Good luck out-bidding all the ProCoolers who've seen it now, though. That Thermatron is a lot thicker, but if you can fit it, go for it.

PS: I have a similar project in the works, just waiting for an mATX nForce 2.

USFJoseph · 10-26-2002, 07:15 AM

koslov,

Where have u seen the nforce2 Micro ATX boards? I'd definatelly be interested in that over the asus nvidia board.

Joseph

koslov · 10-26-2002, 02:37 PM

Well, since not one NF2 is readily available yet, it's still rumor, but here's some info I dug up:

Biostar
M7NCG
NVIDIA Crush18 chipset, micro ATX, Socket A, dual channel DDR400 support, int. GF4 MX graphics, AGP 8X support, ATA133 support, 3 PCI, 1 CNR, 2 DDR DIMM slots, 6 USB 2.0 ports, optional - LAN (RTL8201BL). Samples - September, mass production - October

Chaintech
7NIF1
NVIDIA Crush18, micro ATX, Socket A, dual channel DDR333, int. graphics, AGP 8X, USB2.0, ATA133, PHY LAN, IEEE 1394, CMedia 8738 + AC'97 codec, 3 PCI, 3 DDR DIMM slots

FIC D33007- MicroATX type of IGP+MCP2

And Shuttle will be making a TINY NF2, but probably only for their SFF barebones.

airspirit · 10-26-2002, 03:34 PM

Those radiators are very nice. That massive one that is 24x24" might be big enough to cool my northbridge ... *snickers*

airspirit · 10-26-2002, 04:20 PM

Seriously, though, those Lytron units look like you could find one (in copper!!!!!!!) that could cool multiple machines rather easily and in a compact space. Mighty interesting ... though we'd probably have to find one on Ebay.

USFJoseph · 10-26-2002, 05:29 PM

koslov, u know anything else about that BioStar -- it says Production October but we are almost to November. Any idea when we might see it on the market? Should I wait a month or two to hope it comes out?

koslov · 10-26-2002, 06:00 PM

Yeah, I'm sure most NF2 boards will be out within a month or two. Asus already has started shipping retail versions of their A7N8X, so we will be seeing more soon.

I don't have any specific info on the BioStar board, but I am confident we will have at least one retail mATX NF2 within a month.

USFJoseph · 10-26-2002, 06:08 PM

Hmm...now the big question. Do I wait or do I buy. Such a hard choice since I'll be getting the case in a few days. LOL

10-24-2002, 06:57 AM	#1
USFJoseph Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Tampa Posts: 15	1U/MicroATX Case -- WaterCooling!! Hello everyone! I have just recently acquired this case: I've determined already that I'm going with the Asus Nvidia board (has a geforce2 chip integrated!). I'm also going to upgrade the 95watt psu that comes with it to a 250watt (maybe 300) 1u power supply. My question is about watercooling it. As you know space is limited so here's a pic of the insides: What I figure I'll do is rip that speaker up front out & put the water cooling stuff up there (eg: radiator & fan). Your looking top down & I'm going to put an acrylic window on the top so everything will be mounted to that. What I'm looking for is suggestions. Right now I'm looking at a black ice micro due to the size but if anyone has any other suggestions for micro watercooling projects I would really appreciate it! I don't have exact size specs yet though -- UPS says the package won't get here till the 29th. Thanks for any suggestions! Joseph jgruber@tampabay.rr.com

10-24-2002, 08:36 AM	#2
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	You can find a similarly shaped PSU at allelectronics.com . They have this overstock of HP supplies which might fit. For a rad, I'd go with a BIM (Black Ice micro), cut some vents on both sides of the box, and put a very thin fan in there. Since a floppy is out (right?), I guess that this is going to be a surfing station? __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

10-24-2002, 09:48 AM	#5
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	I'm sure it can be cooled, but not likely to be OC'ed. The fan is going to be critical. As for a pump, someone here used a 12 volt pump. Check out the pump roundup thread. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

10-24-2002, 11:02 AM	#7
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	I meant "OC'ed with that setup"! As for the pump, check out Stepback's unit: pump roundup at the bottom of the page. It should do the trick. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

10-24-2002, 11:49 AM	#10
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Actually, max head is 4 feet, which isn't great, but will allow to to watercool your rig. OC is more than likely out though. If you combine that pump with one of #rotor's 1U blocks, you should be able to get decent flow. If you can indeed fit a BIP in there, all the better. Try to put a shroud: it will help circulate the air better. The fan should be pulling the air through, not pushing. I think you'll be using 1/4 or 3/8 inch ID tubing. For panel cutting, check out pHaestus latest article: he had his water cut. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

10-24-2002, 08:39 AM	#3
USFJoseph Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Tampa Posts: 15	Yeah, floppy is out. No needs for floppys anymore - Just one 80GB HD & one CDRW/DVD (both go under the cdrom section in the upper right). I was looking at the BlackIce Micro but I'm worried about the cooling. I'm looking at an AMD Athlon XP 2000 right now (maybe a 2200) -- You think with a good enough 80MM fan that the BIM will be able to handle that? I'm only going to be cooling the processor and nothing else. Also right now it's looking like the pump might need to go outside the case unless anyone has any suggestions as well for some micro pumps. I have a 2" x 2" x 2" pump in my aquarium which kicks out 300gph per hour but it's not fitted for watercooling. Thanks for any ideas. Joseph

10-24-2002, 09:15 AM	#4
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	I am not sure 2200+s can be cooled...

10-24-2002, 10:48 AM	#6
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	http://www.procooling.com/~phaestus/desktop.JPG (innovatek block, BI Extreme, 80cfm fan, 300 GPH pump, 1/2" silicone blah blah) XP 1600+ @ 1900MHz 2.05V is 45C for comparison...

10-24-2002, 11:25 AM	#8
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	heh and I was using my o/ced chip as evidence that they can't typically be cooled

10-24-2002, 11:41 AM	#9
USFJoseph Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Tampa Posts: 15	Nice pump! However, there are some comments on that page that make me wonder about it. Is it reliable enough to cool an XP 2000? Farthest it will be pushing the water is about 12" From my unscientific measurements using that picture it looks a 120MM MIGHT fit in that area -- if so I'm going with the Black Ice Pro & the 25MM width 120MM so 50mm total width...that should work great (hopefully if it fits!). Any advice on the pump is greatly appreciated. If that pump really works well I think that might just work then. Can't wait for my first lan party after this case is done. Hehe. Joseph jgruber@tampabay.rr.com BTW, anyone know of any place that laser cuts the panels on a case? I'd dremel it but because of the width I don't want to put on siding so I'd like to get the panel laser cut so it is nice & smooth. Thanks!

10-24-2002, 11:53 AM	#11
USFJoseph Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Tampa Posts: 15	#rotor's 1u blocks? Where do you find that at? Tried doing a search on google but found nothing. Again thanks! Joseph P.S. Not planning on doing any OCing. Going from an 850 duron to a XP2000 will more than take care of my speed problems

10-24-2002, 11:55 AM	#12
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Try sending an e-mail to this member: #rotor #rotor profile here Check out this thread for more info. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

10-24-2002, 12:07 PM	#13
airspirit Been /.'d... have you? Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,986	If you're looking at cooling a 2000+ or higher (especially a 2200+ fireball), you might consider an external radiator. I know, I know, self containment is nice, but sticking a full WC unit AND computer in a 1U case is tough. You have to sacrifice on radiator airflow and size (severely), you can't really use a res (unless it is really tiny or you have an external radiator), and your pump needs to be small as well. If I was trying it, and I could find a pump and block (#rotor) that works, I'd find a decent radiator and mount it externally. Otherwise you'd have to do some drastic mods and use a mini (ineffective) rad. My .02. __________________ #!/bin/sh {who;} {last;} {pause;} {grep;} {touch;} {unzip;} mount /dev/girl -t {wet;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} echo yes yes yes {yes;} umount {/dev/girl;zip;} rm -rf {wet.spot;} {sleep;} finger: permission denied

10-24-2002, 12:20 PM	#14
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	I don't know about that... put a BIP in there, add vents on either side of the case, it should work. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

10-24-2002, 11:25 PM	#15
#Rotor Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dione, sector 4s1256 Posts: 852	oooo wow... just look at what happens when I get busy on stuff, and don't check up.... thanks for the mentions there BB2K a self contained U1 LC setup.... owha righty..... you are the daring kind.... here is pictures of the U1 blocks I'm building for some nasty Cluster action just south the border here... U1 the U1 block in action with elbows a nice side view the rad and the reservoir I think, the only radiator you might be able to fit is one of these thin oil-coolers, they are very potent.... I just don't know where you gonna get space for the fans... __________________ There is no Spoon....

10-25-2002, 12:29 AM	#16
koslov Cooling Savant Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Posts: 264	Go to http://www.lytron.com/standard/exchangers.asp. They have lots of radiators in all sizes, all pretty thin. I recommend a 6105 or 6110 with a low profile 120mm fan. Pretty expensive new ($112 and $118), but they are top-of-the-line radiators that far surpass anything comparable. Alternatively, you could purchase a similar heat exchanger made by Thermatron, like this one: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=1780188858 . Good luck out-bidding all the ProCoolers who've seen it now, though. That Thermatron is a lot thicker, but if you can fit it, go for it. PS: I have a similar project in the works, just waiting for an mATX nForce 2.

10-26-2002, 07:15 AM	#17
USFJoseph Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Tampa Posts: 15	koslov, Where have u seen the nforce2 Micro ATX boards? I'd definatelly be interested in that over the asus nvidia board. Joseph

10-26-2002, 02:37 PM	#18
koslov Cooling Savant Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Posts: 264	Well, since not one NF2 is readily available yet, it's still rumor, but here's some info I dug up: Biostar M7NCG NVIDIA Crush18 chipset, micro ATX, Socket A, dual channel DDR400 support, int. GF4 MX graphics, AGP 8X support, ATA133 support, 3 PCI, 1 CNR, 2 DDR DIMM slots, 6 USB 2.0 ports, optional - LAN (RTL8201BL). Samples - September, mass production - October Chaintech 7NIF1 NVIDIA Crush18, micro ATX, Socket A, dual channel DDR333, int. graphics, AGP 8X, USB2.0, ATA133, PHY LAN, IEEE 1394, CMedia 8738 + AC'97 codec, 3 PCI, 3 DDR DIMM slots FIC D33007- MicroATX type of IGP+MCP2 And Shuttle will be making a TINY NF2, but probably only for their SFF barebones.

10-26-2002, 03:34 PM	#19
airspirit Been /.'d... have you? Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,986	Those radiators are very nice. That massive one that is 24x24" might be big enough to cool my northbridge ... snickers __________________ #!/bin/sh {who;} {last;} {pause;} {grep;} {touch;} {unzip;} mount /dev/girl -t {wet;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} echo yes yes yes {yes;} umount {/dev/girl;zip;} rm -rf {wet.spot;} {sleep;} finger: permission denied

10-26-2002, 04:20 PM	#20
airspirit Been /.'d... have you? Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,986	Seriously, though, those Lytron units look like you could find one (in copper!!!!!!!) that could cool multiple machines rather easily and in a compact space. Mighty interesting ... though we'd probably have to find one on Ebay. __________________ #!/bin/sh {who;} {last;} {pause;} {grep;} {touch;} {unzip;} mount /dev/girl -t {wet;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} echo yes yes yes {yes;} umount {/dev/girl;zip;} rm -rf {wet.spot;} {sleep;} finger: permission denied

10-26-2002, 05:29 PM	#21
USFJoseph Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Tampa Posts: 15	koslov, u know anything else about that BioStar -- it says Production October but we are almost to November. Any idea when we might see it on the market? Should I wait a month or two to hope it comes out?

10-26-2002, 06:00 PM	#22
koslov Cooling Savant Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Posts: 264	Yeah, I'm sure most NF2 boards will be out within a month or two. Asus already has started shipping retail versions of their A7N8X, so we will be seeing more soon. I don't have any specific info on the BioStar board, but I am confident we will have at least one retail mATX NF2 within a month.

10-26-2002, 06:08 PM	#23
USFJoseph Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Tampa Posts: 15	Hmm...now the big question. Do I wait or do I buy. Such a hard choice since I'll be getting the case in a few days. LOL

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