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General Liquid/Water Cooling Discussion For discussion about Full Cooling System kits, or general cooling topics. Keep specific cooling items like pumps, radiators, etc... in their specific forums. |
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04-13-2002, 06:10 PM | #26 | |
Cooling Savant
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Quote:
Thanks for info one OCPC. Jim |
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04-13-2002, 06:26 PM | #27 |
Cooling Neophyte
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Colorado
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Hmmm...The leaked info out of Dangerden in this forum expressed that the maze3 took a real long time to machine. Anyone ever see machining that looked like the block in Jim's first photo? Anyway, this point has already been made and Danger Den assured Brad that this thing was milled:
http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/sho...5&pagenumber=2 Doesn't look like it though.
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A-XP1.75ghz/8k3a+/475W Turbo-cool PSU/60GBATA100 -512Corsair xms2400 w/AS3+spreders -R9700pro(volt-modded-water cooled) -16xdvd/HP 24x20x40x cdrw -Sherlock customized 'Hurricane' mid-tower case w/blowhole+baybus (case & ambient temps equal) -Z4(orig.)waterblock/ 380gphpump/ custom plexyglass resevoir/ Aquacoil2 radiator(L.pres.drp)/1/2"fittings/ -Purple Ice/Rounded IDE cables- All fit VERY nicely in a mid-tower case with great air flow |
04-13-2002, 06:27 PM | #28 |
Cooling Savant
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as far as the gap is concerned, that shouldnt even be a problem as long as its got a good seal. also, you do know that DDen sells replacement tops and o-rings right?
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04-13-2002, 06:27 PM | #29 |
Cooling Savant
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 110
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Yeah cheers for the info too.
We still young - and don't want to make any mistakes. So more help feed back does help us to create a better product. Honestly we make little money form this - and it eats all my time up for playing about with hardware. Im not sure about the cast issue - I would have thought that cast is not as pure = higher thermal resistance??. EMC2 Mylar , now thats another expensive substance I spent alot of time talking with plastic manufacturers , alot just wanted to sell me something - anything they had TBH. But I found 2 that advised me on the priducts that are available , plus the benefits & drawbacks , not just what they sold/stocked. But we are still only small - so redesign of our components is still fairly easy for us. look forwards to some comparison testing between a maze2 and maze3 though. |
04-13-2002, 06:37 PM | #30 |
Cooling Savant
Join Date: Feb 2002
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Just call me crazy - but...
Jim - I could see the crack in the first pic too Thanks again for the pics!
My 0.05 worth - that really is too thin of a wall at the screw head IMO. Your idea of extended the top past the side of the block would help. Now this is just me - but they could also simply not countersink the screw head, as in this case I don't see any real issues that would be created. The other comment regarding what I see is the way the side appears in those pics, it's irregular - almost looks like it was cleaved (or maybe milled incorrectly), and then not stress relieved to reduce the propensity to crack. Other comment deals with the m/b mounting holes - if it twas I, I would open the holes in the top up and use a shouldered sleeve so that you were applying the mounting pressure directly on the (flat, metal) top of the block - to prevent compression on the top, possible gouging of the top, and provide a uniform, set, controllable (precise) height for the mounting force to insure level, uniform pressure on the core. (the top shoulder of the sleeve would become the spring seat). Oh, one thing too I noticed in your first pic Jim - and it may be an artifact of the lighting and pic resolution - but it looks almost like the end of the central "rib" is chipped out at its base. (??) Jessm - sorry m8, didn't mean make the entire block out of mylar - just the use of mylar film to address the issue of resistance to solvents (depending on where the issue was). And yes - it tis hard to get good info from salesmen, lol. To get past the sales people and get reliable info, raise detailed technical concerns and get directly to their applications engineering people |
04-13-2002, 07:05 PM | #31 |
Thermophile
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Nuu Zeeelin
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yeah, my pic seems to be a better block than the production block, if I get a maze3, I want a copper top thats soldered on. End of story.
lets see what Fix has to say about this..
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04-13-2002, 07:58 PM | #32 |
Cooling Savant
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Waukesha, Wi
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seems to me that the size of the screw heads are whats causing the problem. the head is so small that it is probably expanding the lexan a bit... if they would simply use bigger heads it would probably fix the problem. (and they would then need to bring the screws in more for edge clearance)
i have a Maze3 on order and it hasnt shipped yet. i also ordered an extra top. this is my plan: i will bore out JUST the counter sunk hole, drop a washer in there, then put the screw through the washer. all of the pressure will then be spread out over a larger area and there shouldnt be any cracking! sure the washer will have some overhang on the edge... but a dremel can fix that what do ya guys think? |
04-13-2002, 08:11 PM | #33 |
Cooling Savant
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i'd much rather have a bolt on aluminum top or a soldered on copper top.
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04-13-2002, 08:14 PM | #34 |
Cooling Savant
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Waukesha, Wi
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yea the metal top would be the best for functionality.. but not for looks =)
looks is the ONLY reason i ordered this block.. otherwise i would just hang onto my maze2 |
04-13-2002, 08:16 PM | #35 | |
Cooling Neophyte
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Colorado
Posts: 31
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Quote:
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A-XP1.75ghz/8k3a+/475W Turbo-cool PSU/60GBATA100 -512Corsair xms2400 w/AS3+spreders -R9700pro(volt-modded-water cooled) -16xdvd/HP 24x20x40x cdrw -Sherlock customized 'Hurricane' mid-tower case w/blowhole+baybus (case & ambient temps equal) -Z4(orig.)waterblock/ 380gphpump/ custom plexyglass resevoir/ Aquacoil2 radiator(L.pres.drp)/1/2"fittings/ -Purple Ice/Rounded IDE cables- All fit VERY nicely in a mid-tower case with great air flow |
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04-13-2002, 08:45 PM | #36 |
Thermophile
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Nuu Zeeelin
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I'm just gonna do a big copy and paste here, DDen seems to be clearing everything up. If your block was shipping on the 6th or later it will be fine, and if earlier it may have a small issue, but they will replace them.
*edit* read from the bottom *edit* ------------------------------------------------ Yep…the counter sunk tops went out on the 4th and 5th. The rest were changed. There isn’t any risk to the countersunk bolts. But if they do crack we will replace them… Best Regards, Jeremy Burnett jeremy@dangerden.com www.dangerden.com -----Original Message----- From: Brad [mailto:otama@ihug.co.nz] Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2002 6:31 PM To: Jeremy - Danger Den Subject: Re: MAZE3 Info Jeremy, is it ok if we post this email? Brad ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeremy - Danger Den To: 'Kevin Hanson' Cc: Joe@procooling.com ; UnaClocker@procooling.com ; Brad@procooling.com Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 1:16 PM Subject: MAZE3 Info Kevin, Jeremy here at the Den... You know we lurk the forums and don't normally post...but I noticed this: http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/sho...3&pagenumber=1 I know there are some questions about the top of the MAZE3. We have now gone to a pan head type bolt (low profile) getting away from the counter sunk hole. The top is 3/8" thick and we haven't had any evidence leaking due to warping. If someone were to have a crack due to the countersink, we encourage them to contact us so we can make everything right (send them a new top and bolts). There hasn't been any other evidence of cracking. A lot of work was done in the development phase but during the first production run...there was more to learn. The copper base is machined from copper stock...not cast. There shouldn't be a gap between the top and base (at the most a piece of paper may be slipped in) but if there is a significant gap we should be contacted to make it right. Again we do want to satisfy everyone (is it possible? and if they have any issue with their block to let us know and we will make it right... Best Regards, Jeremy Burnett jeremy@dangerden.com www.dangerden.com Best Regards, Jeremy Burnett jeremy@dangerden.com www.dangerden.com
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2x P3 1100's at 1400, Abit VP6, 2x Corsair 256mb PC150 sticks, 20gb 'cuda ATA-III, 2x 40gb 'cuda ATA-IV in raid 0. 20" Trinitron. No fans 2x 2400+ at 2288mhz (16.0 x 143), Iwill MPX2, 2x Kingmax PC-3200 256mb sticks, 4x 20gb 60gxp in Raid 5 on a Promise SX6000. Asus Ti4200 320/630. Cooled by Water Last edited by Brad; 04-13-2002 at 08:53 PM. |
04-13-2002, 08:52 PM | #37 |
The Pro/Life Support System
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I have talked wtih Dennis at length, and the block is machined, and then sandblasted.
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04-13-2002, 09:00 PM | #38 | |
Cooling Savant
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04-13-2002, 09:06 PM | #39 |
Cooling Neophyte
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Hmm, maybe you guys already caught this but....
look at the pic I made, compiled from the "sample" pic, and the real pic.
look, interesting how theirs is different on one of the lil turbulance things (note, this could be because they changed the milling settings, or just a fluke) -WireX
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04-13-2002, 09:13 PM | #40 |
Cooling Savant
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Waukesha, Wi
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yup, DD just told me that they are no longer countersinking the bolts.. and are using low profile. sounds like they truely care about quality =)
WireX- i noticed that too, but it seems to be a fluke, it MAY be an air pocket in the copper, so what you are seeing MAY be a bit, not a rise. but there is no fake =) |
04-13-2002, 09:19 PM | #41 |
Slacking more than your weird uncle
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Jeremy sent that e-mail which Brad posted in order to clear things up, Jim. Please contact him with your problem info to resolve things and get a new block. Also, regarding problems with the top cracking, I had a lot of OCWC lexan topped blocks in my day. While most of them sucked and had problems like nobody's business, the top cracking was never one of them.
-Kev
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04-13-2002, 09:28 PM | #42 |
Cooling Neophyte
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Colorado
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Well it looks like they've made every possible attempt to design a block using smart technology. We've all seen the block's cool design to create turbulence, but with sandblasting they've significantly increased both surface area within the block, and also turbulence. Commendable... Now I'd like to see the numbers.
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A-XP1.75ghz/8k3a+/475W Turbo-cool PSU/60GBATA100 -512Corsair xms2400 w/AS3+spreders -R9700pro(volt-modded-water cooled) -16xdvd/HP 24x20x40x cdrw -Sherlock customized 'Hurricane' mid-tower case w/blowhole+baybus (case & ambient temps equal) -Z4(orig.)waterblock/ 380gphpump/ custom plexyglass resevoir/ Aquacoil2 radiator(L.pres.drp)/1/2"fittings/ -Purple Ice/Rounded IDE cables- All fit VERY nicely in a mid-tower case with great air flow |
04-13-2002, 10:20 PM | #43 |
Cooling Neophyte
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Gainesville, FL, USA
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DD's mistake was countersinking the cover screws... they should have just used longer screws and left em exposed on top.
Even better still would be to have a rectangular metal bezel on TOP, with the plastic cover sandwiched in between the main block and the bezel, which would spread the clamping force over the entire outer periphery of the cover and avoid cracking. The bezel could be made as a flat stamping with an oval punched out of the middle to expose the view of the inside, and appropriate holes drilled. If they wanted to pimp it up a bit, make the bezel outta aluminum and anodize it some bright color... which would also serve to harden it and make it more rigid.
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chilling out in the swamp... (#1) Athlon XP@1.667gHz, watercooled: (DD Maze2 new revision, Eheim 1250, BlackiceXtreme), in modded Supermicro SC750 fulltower case. (#2) Athlon TB@1.4gHz, watercooled: (DD Maze2 orig revison, CaseEtc resepump, Blackice), in modded LiteOn FS020 midtower case. |
04-13-2002, 11:43 PM | #44 |
Cooling Savant
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well it's good to know that DD stands behind their products
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04-14-2002, 02:42 AM | #45 | ||
Cooling Savant
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04-14-2002, 08:18 AM | #46 | |
Cooling Savant
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Yes I know they sell replacement tops, didn't think I would need one 24 hours after I received the component! I thought of another way this top could be improved was to eliminate the counter sinking of the (4) screw holes and adding a tiny washer with a substitution of round head machine screws (I am not sure if this block is tapped or not, didn't think to examine the screws when I removed them). Thus the bearing surface would be increased and the chance of fracturing out the sides would be significantly reduced. The top could also be more solidly secured without reservations. Not as pretty, but function comes before beauty. Jim KRP- You posted this idea I just pointed out above here, (oops) I didn't read your post until I had mine posted only after reading Cyco-Dude's response, you thought of it first and the credit belongs to you buddy! I think this idea would solve the problem without having to change the top, and it eliminates four additional hole cuts. (unless they are using a counter boring one piece drill bit?) Jim Last edited by Jim; 04-14-2002 at 08:24 AM. |
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04-14-2002, 08:38 AM | #47 | |
Cooling Savant
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Re: Just call me crazy - but...
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You are correct. The center is chipped. I will post another snap after breakfast. Now I see you also suggested to eliminate the countersink so hats off to EMC2 as well. Would anyone believe me if I said I thought of this last night at dinner but didn't get to post until this morning! Also my compliments to Danger Den (not sure I know who mills these) for being able to MILL this piece. Hell of an undertaking. I am not trying to be a BIG PITA here I feel it is good for all to have this issue exposed. A simple adjustment early on could save some CPU's and down time and data loss. Heck I use my machine to run our family business. Jim |
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04-14-2002, 10:24 AM | #48 |
Cooling Savant
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I have a question, with regards to the heat expansion and contraction differences between the clear top, the fittings and the block itself. I am at the moment busy re-building a Chip-Chiller for a customer, and he said he had a poly-block, that he wanted to use, he might want to go the Maze-3 way, and asked me if I would recommend such a move...
the Chip-chiller can sustain 0c liquid on full load and might even go down to -10 , depending on ambient and load conditions.... this means that the block will see at most a 35degree delta from where is was assembled, (+25c) to where it is in opperation.... how brittle will the top be at cuch a temp..... I have made one see-through block, for show-case perposes only, and I refuse to use it in conditions like I just discribed Can I recommend the Maze, or any see-through for that matter, to be used in conjunction with what I'm building? |
04-14-2002, 10:39 AM | #49 | |
Cooling Savant
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Anyway Sadly my tests are incomplete with a neptune block and a TEC. BUT this is still a different problem to what your customer faces. personaly - I would not like to Block temps as low as this - I think the main problems would be the Type of material/specification the sealinant/ 'O'ring. |
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04-14-2002, 10:51 AM | #50 |
Cooling Savant
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doing good here, and I've been busy too... how are you doing?
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