Beginner's new w/c setup

[Meethoss]

Hi guys,

Based upon information and feedback that I've recieved from the Extreme Overclocking forum I've designed my first watercooled setup. I've tried to use a good number of opinions on different things that I have in this setup based upon the number of people having the same opinion, things that will fit the equipment I am using and things that are available or cheapest in the shops I've been looking in.


For a start, here is a list of my parts:

MSI 865PE Neo2 FIS2R (replace HSF)
P4C 3.0Ghz (800Mhz FSB)
Zalman 7000Cu (to be replaced)
512Mb Corsair TwinX 3700
Hercules Radeon 9800XT 256Mb (replace HSF)
80Gb WD Caviar
LG 16x DVD ROM
SoundBlaster Audigy 2 (and Creative 6700 Speakers)
Netgear 10/100 NIC (should be coming for Christmas)
Standard FDD
GlobalWin SAF 520W (should be coming for Christmas)


Secondly, here is a list of the components I plan on buying:

Antec P160 (case)
Cooler Master Aerogate 2
Eheim 1250
Black Ice Extreme
120mm Vantec Stealth Case Fan
Danger Den Reservoir
Danger Den RBX
Danger Den Maze 3 (Radeon GPU)
Danger Den Z
10 foot Tygon
4 Packs of 4 Worm Drive Hose Clips
12ml Water Wetter
Criticool PowerPlant Relay
OCZ BGA Copper Ram Heatsinks (for GPU)
1/2" Y-piece


That's for starters. The Antec P160 case is just out in the UK and should soon have a window out. Once that is out I will get that and the following:

UV Dark Blue Additive
3 Blue Cathodes


I will setup the watercooling kit in a parallel function as shown below:



This shows the BIX (Ra) and Vantec attached to the bottom front of the case sucking air in to the case. Due to the case design it may need a little modding (hopefully not). This feeds out and is split in two: one to the CPU (C) and one to the NB (N). The NB feeds in to the GPU (GPU) and this reconnects with the one feeding from the CPU (after the two outs from the RBX are re-merged). This then goes in to the reservoir (Re) which then feeds in to the pump (P) and back in to the BIX. Due to the funny heatsink fan on the GPU I also need some little RAM sinks which I'll have to epoxy on (that means getting some Arctic Silver epoxy stuff). The Aerogate 2 will go in the top 5.25" drive just above my DVD drive with the HDD and FDD just below. The Vantec fan is the quietest I can see and I'll control it with the Aerogate if necessary. I hope the other fan that comes with the case is as quiet as they say. I'm also considering making a shroud but that won't happen for a while as I'm new at this and just wanna get up and running for the meantime. Also, another thing I hadn't considered up until now is that the Eheim 1250 apparently has a large intake than outtake so I guess I'll have to get a converter or something or maybe make the hole in the reservoir bigger?

Please, let me know what you think and if I've missed anything out

[bozo]

somehow i dont think the 1250 would be enough

[Chris of Death]

It doesn't look like you're going to have enough space to mount the rad in front, at least from the pic you provided. Remember, you'll also have a 120mm fan attached. I would also take a good, long look at the rad itself. The Thermochill 120.1, or, better yet, the 120.2 would be much better solutions. A heatercore is the ideal budget solution, if you don't mind getting your hands dirty and doing a bit more legwork, although I'm not sure how available the ever popular Chevette cores are in the UK . If it turns out you can't front mount it, you could go with a top mounted solution, provided you don't mind chopping up your case a bit. You could save some $$ by dropping the Northbridge block, as well. It will simplify the system, and the gains for cooling the NB really aren't worth the (literal) costs involved IMHO, not to mention the extra tubing and loss of flow rate.

And for the GPU block, do you mean the Maze4?

All in all, you have the makings of a great system. Good luck.

[Meethoss]

Originally posted by bozo
somehow i dont think the 1250 would be enough

Anymore opinions on this? I've been told it should be ok, so if anyone has experience with a similar setup, please let me know

Originally posted by Chris of Death
It doesn't look like you're going to have enough space to mount the rad in front, at least from the pic you provided. Remember, you'll also have a 120mm fan attached.

That's my current plan for the moment. I'm gonna buy the stuff and see if it will all fit for the plan. I might have to mod it a bit but if it doesn't fit with modding then I was gonna put it elsewhere. I don't really wanna cut up my case too much (I've never done it before and don't wanna mess it up) so maybe I'll consider making an external.

Originally posted by Chris of Death
I would also take a good, long look at the rad itself. The Thermochill 120.1, or, better yet, the 120.2 would be much better solutions. A heatercore is the ideal budget solution, if you don't mind getting your hands dirty and doing a bit more legwork, although I'm not sure how available the ever popular Chevette cores are in the UK .

Hmm...Don't think I can get the Chevette heater core :P I was told the Pro Core is pretty good but can't find it anywhere and was also told the BIX is the next best. If I end up going for an external design then I'll probably just get the 120.3 and go all out. I would prefer internal because it takes up less space in the room (I'm sharing with my girlfriend as I was fed up of arguements with my housemates) and it's easier to move around (being a student I tend to have to move my PC a lot to different houses and stuff when I move).

Originally posted by Chris of Death
You could save some $$ by dropping the Northbridge block, as well. It will simplify the system, and the gains for cooling the NB really aren't worth the (literal) costs involved IMHO, not to mention the extra tubing and loss of flow rate.

I've read that the NB is essentially the key to overclocking and so it needs to be as cool as possible - also I've got a mini heatsink and fan on mine and I want to get the system as quiet as possible, so I figured it'd be best to cool everything where there are currently fans. Do you think I should upgrade the pump to the 1260 for the flow rate?

Originally posted by Chris of Death
And for the GPU block, do you mean the Maze4?

All in all, you have the makings of a great system. Good luck.

Nope - the Maze 3. I'm told it's better than the Maze 4 (the Maze 4 supposedly better for using a TEC). Would you agree or not?

Thanks for the help, mate. Could do with some more opinions on this as I need to be very sure when I buy all this stuff and put it together

[Boli]

I would not put the res after the pump people have found you get bettter results as it is a lot less of a flow killer if you put:

res>pump>blocks>rad>res

Pumping directly into a rad is allways recomended against because of thre preasure drop and it is a better to pumping directly into the blocks and have the rad and res at the end of the circuit.

You seem to want to run a 2x parallel circuit with the NB and GPU on one side and the CPU on the other. Now I would recomend against this as many blocks now work best the higher preasure you put into them (which is why I suggested you moved your pump/rad around). How you are suggesting might mean that your GPU and NB (less resitrictive path) will gain the better flow and the CPU cooling circuit (more restrictive) will get the least.

My recomendation I think will have to be to use the 2 outlets of the CPU block to split the flow and go on one side to the NB and the other to the GPU before "Y-ing" back to connect to the res.

This may also help with the tubing arangement as even with a simple series circuit that what I possess it can get quite confusing and clumbersome.

And lastly you talk of overclocking but you are only running a single BIX, yet you want to cool all three componants. Now You won't see the best temps from this baby at all unless you plan on strapping some deltas to the Rad - getting a shrouded Heatercore or a larger rad my see you better for overclocking but don't expect great temps from this rig if you are overclocking.

And using the cooling circuit I suggested the 1250 would be fine and even the 1048 would work (though it may push it a bit) and where's a watercooling system that someone didn't bodge together with whatever was on hand ;P

~ Boli

[Chris of Death]

Originally posted by Meethoss
Hmm...Don't think I can get the Chevette heater core :P I was told the Pro Core is pretty good but can't find it anywhere and was also told the BIX is the next best. If I end up going for an external design then I'll probably just get the 120.3 and go all out. I would prefer internal because it takes up less space in the room (I'm sharing with my girlfriend as I was fed up of arguements with my housemates) and it's easier to move around (being a student I tend to have to move my PC a lot to different houses and stuff when I move).

They have a better rad selection at pclincs:

http://www.pclincs.co.uk/acatalog/Radiators.html

For a truly ghetto solution, you can mount the rad directly on top:



But if pretty and portable is what you're after, this ain't it . You may want to consider going with one of the more common Chieftec/Chenbro/Antec midtower cases. So many people have them, you should be able to find plenty of ideas on how to mount the rad internally.

I've read that the NB is essentially the key to overclocking and so it needs to be as cool as possible - also I've got a mini heatsink and fan on mine and I want to get the system as quiet as possible, so I figured it'd be best to cool everything where there are currently fans. Do you think I should upgrade the pump to the 1260 for the flow rate?

I'm AMD centric, so for P4s, liquid NB cooling may be a necessity. I don't really know. I'm reasonably sure a good heatsink solution would be just as doable. Since you're already getting (have?) a 3Ghz CPU, you proably won't be pushing the limits of your FSB OC, anyway. Maybe someone else can give you some reassurance one way or the other on this one. *Shrugs*

I'd agree with Boli that the Eheim 1250 should be fine. Then again, in general, more flow = better performance. . .

Nope - the Maze 3. I'm told it's better than the Maze 4 (the Maze 4 supposedly better for using a TEC). Would you agree or not?

Are you sure they weren't speaking of the Maze3 vs Maze4 CPU block solutions? From what I understand, the Maze4 GPU is the best water-only vid card block on the market, but, again, don't take my word as gospel. I've taken my 9700 Pro from a max OC of about 360 core w/o the Maze4 to around 412Mhz, for whatever that's worth.

[Meethoss]

I'm not gonna do that quote then answer thing like before cos I gotta finish up and get to bed, so I apologise if this gets a little messy

-----

Sorry, my diagram isn't that clear as I forgot to indicate the flow - it would be anti-clockwise. Therefore it goes res > pump > rad > blocks so the res is NOT after the pump.

I've been told various condraticting things about putting the rad before or after the pump so I guess I'll have to do a little more research or maybe try it out at the time.

I hadn't thought about linking the two outlets of the CPU to the other two waterblocks - good idea and thanks!

I was thinking the single BIX might not be enough to cool it all, especially as I will overclock. I'll consider getting two radiators or maybe one that will fit 3 120mm fans on one side. I'll stick with the 1250, however

-----

I'll check out that site tomorrow. Had a quick look - nice selection

No offence but your setup is a bit messy - I want something clean and nice to look at - not extremely portable but not very hard to move around. I'm pretty set on getting the case though cause it looks really nice. I might just buy it first and see what I can do with it and where I can put the stuff.

On the overclocking part I'll check some of the other areas/forums and see what everyone says. The best way I've read to overclock, though, is by getting the bus speeds on the mobo up higher which will heat the NB.

I'll change to the M4 then - was already considering it anyway

-----

Thanks for the help guys. I'll do a little more research tomorrow when I'm a wake and reply with some better answers

[kusojiji]

I don't think that your system will work very well for two reasons:

1. the rbx has high back pressure. It will cause most of your water to go through the nb and gpu coolers with your Y configuration. What Boli suggests should be fine, but you will need a stronger pump to ensure that the maze4 and zchip get enough water to balance out.

2. the 1250 has a 5/8 inch inlet. if stifled with a 1/2 inch hose or barb, it really doesn't work very well. See this: http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.p...=1250+and+mag3

Since you are going for looks, I don't have a suggestion for a suitable reservoir. I can only think of a custom PVC job since you can make the fittings 5/8 inch or bigger. I've been searching for a good res for a while myself.

Or, you can go with a stronger pump that has smaller fittings, such as the mcp600, danner mag3, dolphin dp-385.

[Meethoss]

Ok, thanks again for the feedback. Here's what I've decided upon from it so far:

I'll use the RBX to split the system - one out in to the DD M4 and the other out into the DD Z.

I'll use a 1250 Eheim (it's the best I've found so far in the UK shops I've looked at althought I have seen the Hydor L30 - would that have the 1/2" fittings on in and out and would it be good enough?).

I'll probably make my own reservoir (or mod another) to probably fix it straight on to the pump to give it an intake as large as the pump allows. Unless I can find a pump with 1/2" fittings that will be powerful enough.

Sound good? Any more suggestions? Corrections? Anything else? Again, thanks a LOT guys

[Meethoss]

P.S. With the water split from the CPU in to NB and GPU in parallel, would it be good to put a BIX on each line before joining them back together (with no other radiators in the system)? Should keep the flow up and give extra cooling...?

[Meethoss]

Ok - done a little more research and decided I'll use a Hydor L30 because I want a powerful, quiet pump and the L30 seems the best for that (generally more powerful seems to be noisier - I based this upon the pump review on the main site).

I think I'll then go with the two radiators (BIX - one on each line) as long as I have space and enough money. Any more comments on this? Please?

[kusojiji]

BIX rads have moderately high back pressure. I guess if you use two in separate legs, they'll help to balance out the flow between the NB and GPU wb's. Isn't the cost kinda high, though? I think a single chevette heatercore should be more than enough. Just use cool, fresh air from outside the case instead of using an exhaust fan from inside the case to blow across the rad.

MCP600 gives better performance with high back pressure. Try taking a look at that. It is also a little bit easier to integrate since it is a 12vdc pump.

[m00j]

mount the radiator where the PSU is, and the PSU where you have the radiator in the original pic - you can even then sacrifice 2 CD rom bays and put an absolutely HUGE radiator in the top!

[Meethoss]

I don't think I can get a Chevette Heater Core in the UK. The closest I have seen are these:

http://store.over-clock.com/Generic.html
http://www.pclincs.co.uk/acatalog/cp360.html

Are either of those one? Would anyone know where I can get one? Is it the same size as the BIX?

Ok - I'll go for the MCP600 cos I've found somewhere I can get it. A few questions? How do I connect it? It's DC and looks like it has a 4 pin molex connection (http://www.pclincs.co.uk/acatalog/cp387.html). That would mean, then, that it will turn on whenever I turn my PC thus meaning I don't need a relay but when testing I'll have to short the PSU to make it turn on without using my PC. Is that all right?

As far as positioning all this I'll have to get the case and then see how it will all fit in. If you think the Chevette Heater Core will cool it perfectly on it's own then I will probably get that. I think I may have problems no matter where I put it because the initial position that I gave there is a HDD drive cage which may have to be removed.That's not really a big problem though as I can mount my HDD in the second FDD place. Maybe I should just mount it all outside the case in an external box - all this design stuff is tough :/

[kusojiji]

Either one of those heatercores will do. The first one looks like the DangerDen offering since they also sell an acrylic fan shroud. Check out other threads in this forum for shrouds. People have been using plastic storage containers to make theirs. Cheap and effective.

The MCP600 is powered by your power supply, so it does come on when the computer is powered up. No relay required.

As for the hard drive, depending on how big, and how hot, I'd try to go with an active cooling system for it.

[Aardil]

As far as testing your system. In the states we have a company called Radio Shack. They sell 110 volt AC to 13.8 volt DC power supplies.
You might look around a bit, I am sure some one in the U.K. sells some thing that would do the same thing, Pardon my ignorance but I dont know what voltage you use over there 220 volt Ac or 110 volt Ac.

Point being for a few bucks or possibly (If you know someone into 12 volt DC repair work) they may have one you can use to test your system or at least buy.
I would loan you one of mine but frieght would cost more than you can buy one new for.
Aardil

[kusojiji]

I missed that part of your question, but I'd use an external ps for testing, filling. Any 12vdc ps would work, as long as it can pump out .75 amps.

[Meethoss]

Ok, that's sounds fine. I'll have a spare power supply so I could always use that and "trip it", otherwise I know plenty of guys who mess around with electronics and will have something compatible.

The only thing I'm a bit unsure of now is the radiator that I should get. Does anyone know for sure if either of those radiators in my above post would actually do a good job? Better than the BIX and H120.1 etc.

Thanks again!

EDIT: I asked the owners of the shop and the first shop has got back to me. Whoever said it was right - it's the DangerDen one. Is that actually a Chevette Heater Core, then? I can't find much details on this

[kusojiji]

Yes, and yes. That heatercore is better than the BIX (not sure how well the H120.1 works) and it is a Chevette heatercore. The BIX has high backpressure compared to the heatercore and if you look at this page: http://www.thermal-management-testin...issipation.htm, the heatercore is similar to the big momma heatercore.

[Meethoss]

Oops - ignore this. See below!!

[Meethoss]

Ooh, nice one! I think I got it all sorted now, then I've revised my design from that above:

Antec P160 (case) and window
Cooler Master Aerogate 2
Swiftech MCP600
DangerDen Heater Core (own shroud)
120mm Vantec Stealth Case Fan x 2
Danger Den Reservoir
Danger Den RBX
Danger Den Maze 3 (Radeon GPU)
Danger Den Z
10 foot Danger Den Hose
4 Packs of 4 Worm Drive Hose Clips
50ml Water Wetter
OCZ BGA Copper Ram Heatsinks (for GPU)
Dark Blue UV Additive
3 Light Blue Cold Cathodes

In the below format:



The MCP600 draws from the Danger Den res right next to it. It pumps to the Danger Den RBX. This splits the water to a parallel system pumping to both the Danger Den Maze 4 GPU and the Danger Den Z Block NB. These are recombined using the Y splitter from the RBX. This then goes to the Heater Core and back to the Danger Den res.

The pump and res are at the bottom of the case to reduce chance of errors in case of leakage . The Heater Core is placed at the top with a home-made shroud and a quiet 180mm fan using a hand-made blow-hole.

The tubing isn't exact. I'd probably reverse the Heater Core by 180 deg. so the hose comes down easier, and the bends will be larger so no kinking. I'll shove the cathode's somewhere once I've seen how much room I have left etc. and how much is shown by the window.

Sound all correct to you? I'll prob order the case soon cause it looks like it's low in stock at most places. That'll help with planning things better!

[Boli]

Looking good - but I would recomend a mod to put a fan on the side of your case as well - maybe even TWO fans - this will give you a better airflow given the intake fan will invarablly be restricted by the Harddrives, and an additional fan will give your case a positive air preaure so it won't act like a vacuum sucking up all the dust in the room.

~ Boli

[kusojiji]

That looks good. I hope it all fits. Which way is the fan on top going to be blowing? I'd have it drawing air into the case. That'll put some fresh cool air across the memory and to the power supply.

I myself do not like a lot of fans. My reason for going to water is to quiet the case down. It's your call.

[Meethoss]

Yes, kusojiji - agree 100% with you there! The reason I'm going watercooling is to reduce noise (with air cooling at the moment I don't go over 35 deg. on load).

The fan is pulling air into the case. The fan placement at the bottom is designed to pull lots of air through even with the hard drives there as they allow large spaces between them and unlike most cases the hole in the face of the case is large. Plus, I'll only have two hard drives there.

Depending on how things fit I may change the fan at the back to an intake with the radiator positioned there and then have my outtake where the radiator is in the picture - that's all depending on how things fit in the case.

I've had a suggestion that the DD Z block isn't very good. However, I can only find that or the Asetek Waterchill block. Does anyone know where I can get something better in the UK? And what do you suggest (if I can find it)?

Thanks again, you guys are VERY helpful!

[Aardil]

One additional thought ( I really insist on this one)
Your choice of Chemical additive may give you problems later down the road.
I have read a few horror stories about wetter water (ask Airspirit, he knows first hand)

Myself used WW on my first system, 6 month later when I went to change my coolant, all my hoses (Tygon) were stained pink

My latest monster is using Swiftech mcp600 Pumps and I went with what Switech Recomends.

It Called HydrX Extreme Duty Coolant.

Pretty sure who ever you are buying the Swiftech pump from should also carry or at least be able to get the recomended coolant from Swiftech.
BTW its a lovely green color
Aardil