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General Liquid/Water Cooling Discussion For discussion about Full Cooling System kits, or general cooling topics. Keep specific cooling items like pumps, radiators, etc... in their specific forums. |
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07-21-2004, 02:23 AM | #1 |
Cooling Neophyte
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: nyc
Posts: 21
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i'd like to build gerwin's radiator
i have about 25 feet of copper pipe laying around, and from my other thread, you can see i want to cool passively.
would anyone happen to have instructions on how to make this? it looks fairly simple, but i want to get it right the first time around |
07-21-2004, 03:24 AM | #2 |
Cooling Savant
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: BC, Canada
Posts: 313
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You might check the price of solder-on elbows and "T"s vs. Gerwin's all-compression joint setup. Soldering pipe is not difficult. You can use 50/50 solder for this non-potable application too - it's easier to work with than lead-free solder.
Why not play around with the design, make it both functional and attractive? I believe the form of such radiators non-critical. Place it under a window if possible. The (usually) colder air sliding down off the window offers some natural draft and is of course the coolest air in the room. We place electric heaters under windows for these reasons. Looking forward to your creation. |
07-21-2004, 03:38 AM | #3 | |
Cooling Savant
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 192
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Quote:
You'll need a pump that can supply a large head, someone else should make a suggestion on the pump but a D4 should be more than enough I would imagine. Edit: For reference you can use this page for determining the pressure drop of you run of tubing in psi. You can use this page for adding in however many fittings you end up using. If the back pressure gets to high for a D4 you'll need another, or a different pump. Last edited by Razor6; 07-21-2004 at 04:02 AM. |
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07-21-2004, 03:41 PM | #4 |
Cooling Neophyte
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: nyc
Posts: 21
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thank you very much. that was quite helpful. i shot a PM over to gerwin and he's going to give me a few tip's before i start my project. i may try make some original modifications of my own.
and yes, i will be soldering. the problem with the garage radiator you showed me, razor, is the size. i'd make something using the same amount of copper, but it'd have to be wider so i can mount it on my wall. hopefully performance won't be affected too much. if i used 90 degree elbows on gerwin's design to have more verticle pipes would performance be decreased or increased? i would imagine flow rate would be hurt. oh and for pumps i was planning on using the swiftec mcp600 or the aquaxtreme equivilant. is that a bad idea? maybe i need something with higher gph like the L30? |
07-21-2004, 08:18 PM | #5 | |
Cooling Savant
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 192
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Quote:
As for what pump to get I'm not all too sure. Obviously the MCP600 and the D4 are highly recommended for their pressure but the 15' of copper pipe by itself doesn't give much head loss so the L30 wins by a wide margin. When you add in all the fittings and whatever length of tubing to get to your pc, plus the water block(s) it will be a different story. The pressure drop will probably fall around where the two pumps are equal. I made a graph of the L30, MCP600, and the copper tubing. I'm wondering how you could estimate the pressure drop of the Gerwin style with all those T's in there. Copper.org's table shows an elbow as 1 extra foot and a side branch as 2 extra feet, I don't understand that part though. Why does a T have twice the pressure drop of an elbow? Last edited by Razor6; 07-21-2004 at 09:21 PM. |
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07-21-2004, 08:37 PM | #6 |
Cooling Savant
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: MO
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I wish I had one of those 180 GPM MCP600s.
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07-21-2004, 08:39 PM | #7 |
Cooling Neophyte
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: nyc
Posts: 21
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T's have twice the pressure drop as elbows? that doesnt make sense to me either... i suppose the radiator design you introduced to me would be the better choice then?
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07-21-2004, 08:52 PM | #8 |
Cooling Savant
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Alberta
Posts: 631
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I don't get it, Groth? I swear the two flows were 165 (US) and 180 (Imperial)
Looking at the pressure drop of the tubing alone is irrelevant as the block makes up most of the resistance. |
07-21-2004, 09:15 PM | #9 |
Cooling Savant
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Isle of Man
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The Imperial gallon is larger than the US gallon, at a ratio of 1.20095 US gallons to 1 Imperial.
So, if its 180 US gallons, that would be 149.88 Imperial.
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07-21-2004, 09:22 PM | #10 | |
Cooling Savant
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Houston, TX
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07-21-2004, 10:16 PM | #11 | |
Cooling Savant
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Florida
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basic fluid mechanics for water to turn 90 degrees in an elbow, it slides up the copper for water to turn 90 degrees in an T, it smashes into the wather flowing straight through as for the water flowing straight trough, it catches the edge of the inside of the T, if that makes sense I wonder how many ft. of line a res equals |
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07-21-2004, 10:33 PM | #12 |
Cooling Savant
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Alberta
Posts: 631
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If the reservoir is properly built, zero.
The pressure drop of both a tee and an elbow depend upon the tee and elbow in question. Some tees are sharp (all I've seen are) and some corners are equally sharp. For these sharp ones, the tees should have less resistance. A lot of elbows, however, are curver softly and not sharp, so greenman's comment is correct in that aspect. I think the issue with the straight through of the tee is that the sharp corner causes a lot of turbulence, maybe? |
07-21-2004, 11:00 PM | #13 |
Cooling Savant
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Florida
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res "properly built" still has internal friction, unavoidable, so what relationship would that have to ft of line (not head)?
obviously dpenedent on the res in question, but I was making a point that resivors are generally more restrictive, IMO....no test to back me up, though internals of a T do cause turbulence |
07-21-2004, 11:57 PM | #14 | |
Cooling Savant
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Houston, TX
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I also added the D4 to my above graph. |
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07-22-2004, 02:14 AM | #15 | |
Cooling Savant
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: BC, Canada
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Good plumbers consistently use "Y"s over "T"s except where flow will be greatly restricted anyway (by a waterblock or vanity sink) further down both lines. Ahem. Turbulence shouldn't be an issue in a big passive pipe rad. There I think the priority should be getting the largest surface area for the time and money invested, and if the rad's sprawled across a wall it ought to please the eye too. |
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07-22-2004, 06:43 AM | #16 | |
Cooling Savant
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07-22-2004, 07:38 AM | #17 |
Cooling Savant
Join Date: May 2003
Location: NY
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Wouldn't a better alternative to 15ft of continuous pipe be 5 parrallel pipes of 3 ft, or any of parrallel setup. It would mean less resistance so the flow would be higher.
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07-22-2004, 03:58 PM | #18 | |
Cooling Savant
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07-22-2004, 05:58 PM | #19 | |
Cooling Savant
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07-25-2004, 08:49 PM | #20 |
Cooling Neophyte
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: nyc
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well, i've begun cutting pipe. my paralells are 2.5 feet 1/2" piping, and i'm using 3/4" piping horizontally (t's and pipes inbetween them). and i'm soldering not using compression fittings
i'm only going to have 12 paralells when im done, as i only had three 10 foot pipes. hopefully the radiator will be able to cool the water down to acceptable temperatures. afterall, the only thing thats being cooled is my processor... |
07-26-2004, 03:25 AM | #21 |
Cooling Savant
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: BC, Canada
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Making the branches narrower was smart. So you used reducing "T"s?
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07-26-2004, 11:49 PM | #22 | |
Cooling Neophyte
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Location: nyc
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07-27-2004, 12:11 AM | #23 |
Cooling Neophyte
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Miami
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I tried building a Gerwin style radiator with soldered joints...it did not work very well. The copper pipes expanded with the heat and broke the adjacent solder joints. If I were to do it again, I would put towels soaked in cool water around the area I am soldering to minimize the heat expansion. Good luck
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07-27-2004, 12:18 AM | #24 | |
Cooling Neophyte
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07-27-2004, 12:37 AM | #25 | |
Cooling Neophyte
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