You know you're an old guy when...

[bobkoure]

I found myself in an auto parts store yesterday. Two people at the next counter (customer and shop person) couldn't decide whether points fired on open or close.
It's on open, of course.
The "old guy" part is that I was explaining how a battery/coil/points system actually worked, what a condenser was for, etc. - and afterwards realized that all the folks in the store had been born after electronic ignition was standard equipment on, well everything.
Maybe I'll go back and explain side valve engines or inlet over exhaust (used to be a motorcycle mechanic and volunteered on Sat's at the local transportation museum)

[RoboTech]

LOL Yeah, I bet you remember what a Carburetor is too...

[bobkoure]

Yep - used to tell customers that the word "carburettor" was from the Latin phrase "don't touch those little screws"...
Carbs haven't totally disappeared the way points have, though (some motorcycles, tractors, lawn mowers). I suppose understanding thigs like the difference between slide cutaway and needle taper has gotten to be pretty arcane these days, though...

[Chew_Toy]

Wont be long befor distributors will join the ranks also.

[Joe]

Its because all that old ass technology has gone away that I can drive a car in winter/summer/rain/snow/wind etc... without having to re-tune the bitch

Thank god for EFI, and Electronic Iginition

Although I do still screw with carbs, just on my R/C engines.

[DrMemory]

Yeah, carbs and distributors used to be the two main reasons a car wouldn't start (other than dead batteries). Most electronic control systems seem to be very reliable now.

[Mars]

Originally Posted by bobkoure

I found myself in an auto parts store yesterday. Two people at the next counter (customer and shop person) couldn't decide whether points fired on open or close.
It's on open, of course.
The "old guy" part is that I was explaining how a battery/coil/points system actually worked, what a condenser was for, etc. - and afterwards realized that all the folks in the store had been born after electronic ignition was standard equipment on, well everything.
Maybe I'll go back and explain side valve engines or inlet over exhaust (used to be a motorcycle mechanic and volunteered on Sat's at the local transportation museum)

LOL, yeah I bet you also worked on the "Flathead Fords" too. I work as an automotive technician for the past ten years, and I've only had to deal with a points ignition twice, beleive it or not. It was an 85' Pony, and the other was a Chrysler something or other.

And, to answer the last guy about newer ignition systems are more reliable is actually the opposite. I find they are harder to diagnose, replace, repair and they are not as reliable as some people think. But then again, what is. I've replace ignitors, and modules on cars that were only 3 years old.

[Etacovda]

That being said, if cars with points were as common, you can be sure you'd be working on points far more often than electronic ignitions.

Im yet to own a car thats got electronic ignition... but, im a tinkerer so thats just fine Yet to own a FWD car as well...

[cristoff]

My old 87 nissan sentra had a carb. It started everytime, cold, hot, mild, winter, snow, everything... Great little engine that could...

But yeah most kids don't know jack about older cars. Everything now is EFI...

[Fyber]

I would say I definately fit into the category of a kid not knowing jack about cars, even though I'm getting close to the age where I can start driving one (I'm 15 right now, California jacked the learners permit age to 15.5, so I wait). Jeez, I don't even know what a carb is, let alone EFI. I'll learn eventually though.

[DrMemory]

With only two experiences with point ignitions I'm not sure how you can make an accurate comparison. Harder to troubleshoot than what? You hook it up to a diagnostic computer. It checks the timing. It checks the sensors. It checks almost everything. No diagnostic computers for point ignitions. Of course with only 5 or 6 parts, not including spark plug wires and plugs, it doesn't take long to try everything with a point ignition. Harder to replace/repair? I'd rate them dead even on that. More expensive to replace/repair? Yeah, no doubt about that.

And no, electronic ignition systems are not less reliable, and they require much less maintenance. Which is the main reason they are more reliable. Point ignitions have to be adjusted and the points, condensor, rotor, and distributor cap have to be replaced once or twice a year because they wear out. This, along with replacing the spark plugs used to be called a tune up. Not doing regular tune ups on point ignition systems was the main reason they failed. Now days, a tune up is connecting it up to the diagnostic computer and replacing the spark plugs, and maybe the spark plug wires every 50 to 100 thousand miles.

Any system can fail in three years, or less! The more of them there are, the more likely it is to happen.

[HAL-9000]

My first car was a '73 Buick LeSabre four door. I know all about point ignition, carbs and attaching a 4-barrel to replace the 2-barrel and do my part to accelerate the global warming trend. I miss the car really. I grew up in Idaho close to the Wyoming border and Yellowstone park. Winter sucks there and the car was finnicky to start.

But if you feathered the gas right for about ten seconds after you started it, and then let it warm up, it was the bomb. More heat than you could want, even in -30C ambient. If you started slipping, gun it and the tires would dig right through the snow and find road. And doing cookies on ice in that battlecruiser was an amusement park ride that you (kind of) controlled.

My only gripe is in '73 Buick made a 350CI that was different than a Chevy 350CI, and the whole top of the motor from the manifolds up was incompatible, hence parts were rare and expensive, especially in the dark days of BBS only 'net and no Ebay. Ironically it was more than a teenager like me could afford to maintain despite the fact the hooptie was worth maybe $500. But I do miss that car, carbs and all, a lot.

[DMOS]

My new car doesn't even have spark plug wires. It's "coil on plug", one less thing to replace cheaply and one more thing likely to go wrong. It's also got a "drive by wire" throttle, that didn't work so fantastically originally. Because the throttlebody wasn't grounded very well, it would be slow to respond after you get off the gas ex: when shifting. It compares the voltage signal from the throttle to "ground", and determines how open the TB should be. Adding a 10gauge wire connecting the TB to the negative post of the battery fixed this. Progress I tell you, sometimes seems awfully backwards... however I will say all this electronic gadgetry sure helps in the gas mileage!

[SCompRacer]

LOL bob shows his age......or is a history buff.

They even had mechanical fuel pumps back in them old days. Most of the cars came equipped with steel wheels and hub cabs. And bias-ply tires. 8 track tape players. You could pull a plug wire off to check for a miss and could endure a jolt from the wire.

Carbs were a mystery to some. Choke tension and choke vacumn breaks on carbs had factory specified settings, but sometimes required a custom adjustment to keep an engine running after it was started cold. Some carbs had multiple choke vacumn breaks. Common problems with carbs were floats absorbing fuel thus raising float bowl levels and lead that plugged drillings in the bottom of the carb body loosening up, dripping fuel into the intake manifold.

Guys that put aftermarket, higher lift/duration cams in could create problems for themselves. They would just crank the idle screw up on the carb to keep it running which had a negative effect on the relationship of the idle transfer slot in the throttle body. Depending on the size of the cam, a large vacumn drop would require work to the carb's power valve enrichment circuit too. The engine would then run plug-fouling, eye-burning rich at idle and have an off idle flat spot on acceleration. The engine didn't respond to idle mixture adjustments. One had to know where and what size to drill holes in the carb to solve the idle problem. Lighter spring tension power valves were required to keep them closed at idle. Functioning power valves allow you to use a smaller main jet yet provide full throttle enrichment. After all that, you neeed to custom curve the distributor timing since the vacumn advance didn't work.

Now we have distributorless and wireless ignitions, EFI, and 'puties. Lower emissions. Better mileage coupled with performance. All it took was more complexity. Heck, even diesels are 'putie controlled now.

[Etacovda]

"old days" eh

Im yet to have a car with an electric fuel pump, and im yet to have a car with an electric fan, even. Its an '87 toyota wagon that i drive at the moment.

The average age of cars here is probably 88-95, with japanese imports reigning supreme. Its amazing - long green NZ has stupidly relaxed laws on emissions etc, somewhat pathetic for a country that relys mainly on dairy/farming and tourism for export. Our govt. are idiots.

How common are older cars in the US?

[Puzzdre]

Just few days ago I was lookig for a new pump jet diaphragm for my mom's '83 renault with weber carb, and the guy in the local Renault service tried to convince me that I must replace the whole thing, meaning the whole carburettor. After a few odd looks, he finally decided that he'll call somebody older that 'knows this stuff'. None the less, they didn't have it, but...

And another thing about carburettors, my wife's Citroen AX with weber has a better throttle response than my golf mk2 gti.

I never owned a car with points, but my dad did, and I remember he didn't swear too much while replacing and adjusting them. Dunno if they were fuss or not.

And, Bobkoure, that 'Latin' phrase is great, and so very very true LOL

Cheers

[killernoodle]

Older? How old is older? I drive a '90 Mercedes 300te wagon, that is usually considered very old. New/big cars and SUVs are very popular here, and that is really annoying to me. I love my car despite how old it is. The interior is spotless, then engine runs flawlessly with no major engine work since it was built. Great car, still cruises the highway (illegally of course) at 125mph+ regularly and very smoothly I might add.

[cristoff]

You can retrofit an older carbed car, like a big block 350, with injectors in the carb... I thought I saw it in summit...

[BillA]

I have 2 '84 300SD Mercedes, the urban tank

[bigben2k]

Ya'll also missed putting oil in the air filter (Bob knows...)

[Arcturius]

Originally Posted by bigben2k

Ya'll also missed putting oil in the air filter (Bob knows...)

Are you talking about putting oil on a foam air filter (like on dirt bikes, lawnmowers, etc.), or the kind where the air filter is just a half-toroid oil bath, with a slightly larger half-toroid lid over it to direct the air flow?

[bigben2k]

Originally Posted by Arcturius

Are you talking about putting oil on a foam air filter (like on dirt bikes, lawnmowers, etc.), or the kind where the air filter is just a half-toroid oil bath, with a slightly larger half-toroid lid over it to direct the air flow?

The latter.

It was common in the 50's.

[Jason_The_Angry]

my first car was a 71 buick skylark (it was 1997). i drove that thing all year round till about last december when it started to fail state inspections due to frame rust. i had to retire it until i have the time and money for a restoration. it had a 350 2-bbl that was pretty stout. i rebuilt it once and it was a great experience and i would reccomend to anyone that they tear down and rebuild and engine just once. in other news, i just picked up a 455 block that's going to end up fuel injected with dual turbochargers. god help the kids driving honda civics when i'm finished.

jason

[bigben2k]

I'm doing a head gasket job on my '93 Pontiac Grand AM, does that count?

[bobkoure]

Originally Posted by Etacovda

How common are older cars in the US?

It's a regional thing.
We have harsh winters where I live (New England), the roads are salted and car bodies dissolve fairly quickly.
I suspect there are more older cars in more clement regions - and probably lots more in places like southern California.

I had one of the first CDI systems for motorcycles ('70 or so) which stranded me in Vermont in a fairly spectacular way. The bike I'd installed it in just died so I coasted to the side of the road. When I got off I could see a faint blue glow in the area of the electronics box. Wondering what that was all about, I stuck my gloved finger in to nudge the box (thinking it might have been a loose contact with ground) - and woke up on the ground alongside the bike with a Vermont state trooper leaned over me trying to figure out if I was dead. He took me home (some cops are pretty nice guys) and the next morning one of the guys from the shop I worked at arrived with the parts I'd removed to install the CDI. We rode home together and had a "ceremonial toss of the CDI into the dumpster" party (couple of beers - plus the toss, of course ).