400 meters ranged WIRELESS LAN

satanicoo · 04-14-2003, 02:11 PM

note: i am aiming for speeds like a modem (like 7k sending and 4 receiving)

do they exist?

my friend lives that distance from me, and has cable access to internet. if im able to connect to him trow wireless lan, i will be able to have free internet

btw, he doesnt mind that i do.

so i need a piece of hardware like that. but i think they dont exist.

i was also think in using walkie-talkies, moded and conected in some way that they would be used for this matter.

but i dont know how to start...

i was hoping, since you guys normaly know the most strange/impossible things, that you could at least point me to a site/link with help in this matter.

thanks.

Cova · 04-14-2003, 02:21 PM

I would use 802.11b - 11mbps wireless, easy to get parts, fairly easy to setup for that range if you have line-of-sight between your houses (eg. if you can each mount an antenna on the roof facing each other). Just do a google for cantenna and you'll find lots of info about how to build an 802.11b antenna from scratch.

bikr · 04-14-2003, 02:21 PM

why bother for 4/7k , if you have line of site to his house you can setup a yagi antenna at both ends.. one to your wireless card and one to his accesspoint most access points have 2 antennas so this won't affect him too much at all.. and you'll be surfing at normal cable speeds.. --Bikr

airspirit · 04-14-2003, 02:25 PM

This is easy. First, check and see if there is a way to get perfect line-of-sight between your two locations. If there are buildings and such in the way, this will be much more difficult.

If you have LOS, have him pick up an access point that can have external antennas added. You can get pretty powerful directional antennas for $30 a pop online, and if you have him aim his antenna at you, you should be able to get good traffic on a regular receiver at that range. If not, you may need to hack a more powerful antenna only your card as well.

I hate to recommend DLink since they are pieces of crap, but their 614+ access point/router can bridge with their 900AP+ bridge. They can have external antennas added easily to them. Point the two directional antennas at each other and network away.

There are some other products that do the same thing and if possible avoid the DLinks, but if you are trying to stay cheap, that would be a solution that would cost less than $400 USD and would allow you to put your entire network on their system.

satanicoo · 04-14-2003, 03:57 PM

thanks for all the replies.

and if there is not line of sight?

... you guessed right. there isnt

edit:

Quote:

Originally posted by Cova
I would use 802.11b - 11mbps wireless, easy to get parts, fairly easy to setup for that range if you have line-of-sight between your houses (eg. if you can each mount an antenna on the roof facing each other). Just do a google for cantenna and you'll find lots of info about how to build an 802.11b antenna from scratch.

does this setup achieve 400 meters with obstacles?

bikr · 04-14-2003, 04:00 PM

If there isn't line of site , 400 meters will be a nice hurdle. do you have someone in your line of site that does have them at line of site , like this

another friend
/\
you--> / | \ <---your buddy

that way you could point yagi to them , they could be the "go between and you could all be networked..and share the bandwidth.. --Bikr

airspirit · 04-14-2003, 04:49 PM

Can you go roof to roof? You can remotely setup your bridge/antenna and string ethernet down to your location.

bikr · 04-14-2003, 04:54 PM

a decent yagi will go through walls and what not , what types of obsticles are we talking about here --Josh

satanicoo · 04-14-2003, 05:28 PM

a school, several houses, and a zone with trees.

the land is leveled at my place, but going to his house, it stats to fall, so we have kind of a mountain in the middle

airspirit · 04-14-2003, 05:54 PM

You're screwed. Sorry to say it. Without LOS you're dead. Trying to go through land, GG.

Yo-DUH_87 · 04-14-2003, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by airspirit
I hate to recommend DLink since they are pieces of crap...

In some applications, yes, in other applications, no. Compared to a Linksys router that I configured for my neighbors, my D-Link setup was a walk in the park

I agree with airspirit, I don't see how you could go through land/buildings. All the extreme range wireless stuff I have seen depends on LOS...

satanicoo · 04-14-2003, 06:26 PM

here

satanicoo · 04-14-2003, 08:16 PM

there is this gadjed, a not-so-bad-quality walkie-talkies (i think its sony) that can talk a very large range, but it transfer voices.

you see? low quality voice, low data, but large distance.

i mean, making some crazy stuff like adapting this... walkie-talkies to transfer info, even slowly.

you know what i mean?

i am talking about this because a few years ago i did see something about this ( yes, always something, i never have anithing concrete :shrug: )

but i did also heard of radios trou land (yes, trou land) it was like stiking 2 iron stiks in the landon one side, and stiking other 2 in the other house, and it was able to comunicate.

sounds impossible ein? i dunno.

edit: this was with bnc cables.

KnightElite · 04-15-2003, 01:10 AM

If you can run a coaxial cable all the way from your house to his, then you're set

.

It would be pretty cool though, if you could modify a modem to transmit to your walkie talkie, which would then transmit to his modem, which would then give you net access.... Hmm... I wonder how hard that would be to do. You'd have to find out first if it can be done, but if so, then it might very well work.

But 802.11b would definitely have been the best option. If you could persuade the school to let you attach an antenna to their roof, to act as a signal redirection point, then it might work.

airspirit · 04-15-2003, 09:50 AM

Or you can wait for 802.16 to come out. I heard it can transmit for miles. Probably will be expensive, though.

Pockytofu · 04-15-2003, 10:41 AM

lol, yeah!
If there is no street between your houses, just buy like 400 meters of coaxial cable,hehehe.

airspirit · 04-15-2003, 02:11 PM

I've actually known people to do that ... run fiber optic cable buried an inch or so underground and stringing it through peoples yards and stuff. Not pretty if you get caught.

satanicoo · 04-16-2003, 04:41 PM

400 meters of cable??? are you sure??

i dont even think LAN is designed for that king of lenght ( 25 meters right)?

oh well, its some form to connect the walkie talkies to the lan adapter that im searching KnightElite, i really dont know what to do! :shrug:

KnightElite · 04-16-2003, 04:54 PM

Twisted pair 10/100 ethernet is 100m without a repeater, gigabit over twisted pair is 25m. Coaxial can do 500m without a repeater.

airspirit · 04-16-2003, 06:31 PM

Fibre optics can go (theoretically) miles. Can't lose there.

jaydee · 04-17-2003, 04:52 PM

How many months of internet access could you buy compared to the cost of the equipment that it would take leech of your friend?

satanicoo · 04-17-2003, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jaydee116
How many months of internet access could you buy compared to the cost of the equipment that it would take leech of your friend?

my zone doesnt have support for cable or adsl...

yes, the last phone number with cable support is, exacly 101m from me.

you could still say: " well, if it is that close, just wait a bit more, and it will reach ya

"

but i am waiting for over a year now...

EDIT: btw, i have a school and some roads between me and my friend. i can dodge the school, but what about the roads?

jaydee · 04-17-2003, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by satanicoo
my zone doesnt have support for cable or adsl...

yes, the last phone number with cable support is, exacly 101m from me.

you could still say: " well, if it is that close, just wait a bit more, and it will reach ya "

but i am waiting for over a year now...

EDIT: btw, i have a school and some roads between me and my friend. i can dodge the school, but what about the roads?

but i thought your speeds after all this work wouldn't be any better than dialup anyway? My bad.

satanicoo · 04-17-2003, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jaydee116
but i thought your speeds after all this work wouldn't be any better than dialup anyway? My bad.

true, true, but it was what i am aiming at, just like i stated at the first post.

it would be dial-up speed only, at no costs

Arcturius · 04-17-2003, 10:40 PM

What are the restrictions on ridiculously big towers in your area? And what is the roof on your house like? Would a forty foot antenna on a non-penetrating roof mount with some guide wires be feasible?

(and more importantly, would such a monstrosity give you LOS?)

04-14-2003, 02:11 PM	#1
satanicoo Cooling Savant Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: portugal Posts: 635	400 meters ranged WIRELESS LAN note: i am aiming for speeds like a modem (like 7k sending and 4 receiving) do they exist? my friend lives that distance from me, and has cable access to internet. if im able to connect to him trow wireless lan, i will be able to have free internet btw, he doesnt mind that i do. so i need a piece of hardware like that. but i think they dont exist. i was also think in using walkie-talkies, moded and conected in some way that they would be used for this matter. but i dont know how to start... i was hoping, since you guys normaly know the most strange/impossible things, that you could at least point me to a site/link with help in this matter. thanks.

04-14-2003, 02:21 PM	#3
bikr Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: West Palm Beach Posts: 230	why bother for 4/7k , if you have line of site to his house you can setup a yagi antenna at both ends.. one to your wireless card and one to his accesspoint most access points have 2 antennas so this won't affect him too much at all.. and you'll be surfing at normal cable speeds.. --Bikr __________________ http://www.modasylum.com

04-14-2003, 02:25 PM	#4
airspirit Been /.'d... have you? Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,986	This is easy. First, check and see if there is a way to get perfect line-of-sight between your two locations. If there are buildings and such in the way, this will be much more difficult. If you have LOS, have him pick up an access point that can have external antennas added. You can get pretty powerful directional antennas for $30 a pop online, and if you have him aim his antenna at you, you should be able to get good traffic on a regular receiver at that range. If not, you may need to hack a more powerful antenna only your card as well. I hate to recommend DLink since they are pieces of crap, but their 614+ access point/router can bridge with their 900AP+ bridge. They can have external antennas added easily to them. Point the two directional antennas at each other and network away. There are some other products that do the same thing and if possible avoid the DLinks, but if you are trying to stay cheap, that would be a solution that would cost less than $400 USD and would allow you to put your entire network on their system. __________________ #!/bin/sh {who;} {last;} {pause;} {grep;} {touch;} {unzip;} mount /dev/girl -t {wet;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} echo yes yes yes {yes;} umount {/dev/girl;zip;} rm -rf {wet.spot;} {sleep;} finger: permission denied

04-14-2003, 04:00 PM	#6
bikr Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: West Palm Beach Posts: 230	If there isn't line of site , 400 meters will be a nice hurdle. do you have someone in your line of site that does have them at line of site , like this another friend /\ you--> / \| \ <---your buddy that way you could point yagi to them , they could be the "go between and you could all be networked..and share the bandwidth.. --Bikr __________________ http://www.modasylum.com

04-14-2003, 04:49 PM	#7
airspirit Been /.'d... have you? Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,986	Can you go roof to roof? You can remotely setup your bridge/antenna and string ethernet down to your location. __________________ #!/bin/sh {who;} {last;} {pause;} {grep;} {touch;} {unzip;} mount /dev/girl -t {wet;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} echo yes yes yes {yes;} umount {/dev/girl;zip;} rm -rf {wet.spot;} {sleep;} finger: permission denied

04-14-2003, 02:21 PM	#2
Cova Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 247	I would use 802.11b - 11mbps wireless, easy to get parts, fairly easy to setup for that range if you have line-of-sight between your houses (eg. if you can each mount an antenna on the roof facing each other). Just do a google for cantenna and you'll find lots of info about how to build an 802.11b antenna from scratch.

04-14-2003, 04:54 PM	#8
bikr Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: West Palm Beach Posts: 230	a decent yagi will go through walls and what not , what types of obsticles are we talking about here --Josh __________________ http://www.modasylum.com

04-14-2003, 05:28 PM	#9
satanicoo Cooling Savant Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: portugal Posts: 635	a school, several houses, and a zone with trees. the land is leveled at my place, but going to his house, it stats to fall, so we have kind of a mountain in the middle

04-14-2003, 05:54 PM	#10
airspirit Been /.'d... have you? Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,986	You're screwed. Sorry to say it. Without LOS you're dead. Trying to go through land, GG. __________________ #!/bin/sh {who;} {last;} {pause;} {grep;} {touch;} {unzip;} mount /dev/girl -t {wet;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} echo yes yes yes {yes;} umount {/dev/girl;zip;} rm -rf {wet.spot;} {sleep;} finger: permission denied

04-14-2003, 08:16 PM	#13
satanicoo Cooling Savant Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: portugal Posts: 635	there is this gadjed, a not-so-bad-quality walkie-talkies (i think its sony) that can talk a very large range, but it transfer voices. you see? low quality voice, low data, but large distance. i mean, making some crazy stuff like adapting this... walkie-talkies to transfer info, even slowly. you know what i mean? i am talking about this because a few years ago i did see something about this ( yes, always something, i never have anithing concrete :shrug: ) but i did also heard of radios trou land (yes, trou land) it was like stiking 2 iron stiks in the landon one side, and stiking other 2 in the other house, and it was able to comunicate. sounds impossible ein? i dunno. edit: this was with bnc cables.

04-15-2003, 01:10 AM	#14
KnightElite Cooling Savant Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan Posts: 294	If you can run a coaxial cable all the way from your house to his, then you're set . It would be pretty cool though, if you could modify a modem to transmit to your walkie talkie, which would then transmit to his modem, which would then give you net access.... Hmm... I wonder how hard that would be to do. You'd have to find out first if it can be done, but if so, then it might very well work. But 802.11b would definitely have been the best option. If you could persuade the school to let you attach an antenna to their roof, to act as a signal redirection point, then it might work. __________________ Can anyone else here say that they have a watercooled monster that's 45" tall?

04-15-2003, 09:50 AM	#15
airspirit Been /.'d... have you? Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,986	Or you can wait for 802.16 to come out. I heard it can transmit for miles. Probably will be expensive, though. __________________ #!/bin/sh {who;} {last;} {pause;} {grep;} {touch;} {unzip;} mount /dev/girl -t {wet;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} echo yes yes yes {yes;} umount {/dev/girl;zip;} rm -rf {wet.spot;} {sleep;} finger: permission denied

04-15-2003, 10:41 AM	#16
Pockytofu Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Minnesota Posts: 10	lol, yeah! If there is no street between your houses, just buy like 400 meters of coaxial cable,hehehe.

04-15-2003, 02:11 PM	#17
airspirit Been /.'d... have you? Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,986	I've actually known people to do that ... run fiber optic cable buried an inch or so underground and stringing it through peoples yards and stuff. Not pretty if you get caught. __________________ #!/bin/sh {who;} {last;} {pause;} {grep;} {touch;} {unzip;} mount /dev/girl -t {wet;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} echo yes yes yes {yes;} umount {/dev/girl;zip;} rm -rf {wet.spot;} {sleep;} finger: permission denied

04-16-2003, 04:41 PM	#18
satanicoo Cooling Savant Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: portugal Posts: 635	400 meters of cable??? are you sure?? i dont even think LAN is designed for that king of lenght ( 25 meters right)? oh well, its some form to connect the walkie talkies to the lan adapter that im searching KnightElite, i really dont know what to do! :shrug:

04-16-2003, 04:54 PM	#19
KnightElite Cooling Savant Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan Posts: 294	Twisted pair 10/100 ethernet is 100m without a repeater, gigabit over twisted pair is 25m. Coaxial can do 500m without a repeater. __________________ Can anyone else here say that they have a watercooled monster that's 45" tall?

04-16-2003, 06:31 PM	#20
airspirit Been /.'d... have you? Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,986	Fibre optics can go (theoretically) miles. Can't lose there. __________________ #!/bin/sh {who;} {last;} {pause;} {grep;} {touch;} {unzip;} mount /dev/girl -t {wet;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} echo yes yes yes {yes;} umount {/dev/girl;zip;} rm -rf {wet.spot;} {sleep;} finger: permission denied

04-17-2003, 04:52 PM	#21
jaydee Put up or Shut Up Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 6,506	How many months of internet access could you buy compared to the cost of the equipment that it would take leech of your friend?

04-17-2003, 10:40 PM	#25
Arcturius Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Chippewa Falls, Wisconsin Posts: 294	What are the restrictions on ridiculously big towers in your area? And what is the roof on your house like? Would a forty foot antenna on a non-penetrating roof mount with some guide wires be feasible? (and more importantly, would such a monstrosity give you LOS?)

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