No-Worries WC computer?

[msv]

Hi, fellows!
My reservoir is made from a 32 mm PVC tube, standing next to the MB, strapped solidly to the sheet metal inner wall in my computer, held in place with two zip locks.
The end caps are each made from two pieces of plexy, one with a 32 mm hole cut into it, and then glued together. The PVC tube is just poked and glued into the 32 mm hole in the end cap.
A few days ago I discovered a small crack in the top end cap, and it scared me plenty. OK, it´s at the highest point of the water loop so there´s no leak, but there´s an indentical end cap at the bottom of the res, at the very lowest point of the loop. We don´t want any cracks there, do we?
Not to mention that I have lots of plexy in my water blocks.
I also check the tubes for new kinks a couple of times a week. Nothing I can´t live with, but still pretty boring.
This had me thinking of the Fire-And-Forget, No-Service, No-Worries water cooled computer. Yeah, yeah, I´m living in a dream, I know, but it´s a beautiful dream.

Question:
If I was to build a *trouble free* water cooled rig, how would this be done?
Regard me as a complete idiot (many people already do this and seem to be quite happy with it) (OK, at least be polite, please) and take from the beginning. Take nothing for granted.
Robust components is pretty obvious, but I guess there are lots of other details to keep in mind.
The computer is to be as portable as possible (Chieftec midi tower) and a complete sleeper, no traces whatsoever on the outside of what lurks inside.

Thankful for all advices.
Regards
Mikael S.

Hey! What happened to the Noob Bashing forum?

[airspirit]

Consider using as much PVC as possible in the largest size possible. The only tubing used should be for your radiator and block connects. Doing this would allow you to build a solid system that is resistant to hose failure. Also, it eliminates (if built right) the need for a reservoir and you can build fill/drain valves right into it. If build right, you can set up your cooling system to be one solid entity that can by slid right into your case and pulled as a whole for easy maintenance away from your fragile components. Consider making the radiator on a quick-mount type setup to make this easier (such as a simple four bolt retaining arrangement on the shroud or whatnot).

It can be done in a bulletproof manner if you're smart about the design and have it laid out ahead of time.

[jaydee]

1) All copper water blocks with soldered on barbs/connectors.

2) No res, get rid of it.

3) As little hose/tubing/piping as possible.

4) High quality pump.

5) High quality rad fan, Panaflow comes to mind.

6) Quality hose clamps, probably of the metal variety.

If that leaks or fails then your to stupid for water cooling and need to invest in a good air cooler.

[airspirit]

Not quite, Jay. Hose can always collapse and cause system failure (it happened to me, I know). Tubing can slowly chafe on card or case edges. There are things that can go wrong: PVC is less disaster prone if constructed correctly than tubing, making it a proper answer to the question.

Oh, and make sure you goop your pump. I know someone who suffered a failure due to their gasket in their pump failing.

[TerraMex]

3 remarks.

festo fittings or push fittings.
They as close as you can get to "no worrys" (or fool proof).
Take blade runners blocks for an example on festo fittings. I've worked with them before, recommended.

I like reservoirs ... keeps my inlets unrestricted. Plumbers goop is our friend. I've had zero problems.

Pabst fans. Or 24v Sunon fans , at 12v they push a respectable amount of air and with very low noise.

[jaydee]

Originally posted by airspirit
Not quite, Jay. Hose can always collapse and cause system failure (it happened to me, I know). Tubing can slowly chafe on card or case edges. There are things that can go wrong: PVC is less disaster prone if constructed correctly than tubing, making it a proper answer to the question.

Oh, and make sure you goop your pump. I know someone who suffered a failure due to their gasket in their pump failing.

I have yet to even come close to collapsing a hose, even with my HydroThurster 500 with 3/4" tubing. I have no clue how you could collapse it unless the pump was severly over powered. Not like he would be using a huge pump in side his case. Also tubing shouldn't be any where near anything it can rub on. Hell there should only be a few feet of hose inside a case. There shouldn't even be a long enough run to even consider hard pipe. The longest connection should be from the rad to the CPU block and that shouldn't be more than 8" if everthing is in the case as he plans it to be. Then from the CPU to NB is only an inch or two and from the NB to the GPU is only an inch or two and then from the GPU to the pump is only a few inches. Or if no NB or GPU block then it will be another +-8" back the the pump. But if that is a worry then use 1/8" thick hose. :shrug:

I wouldn't hesitate for a second using standard clear tubing though. Hasn't failed me yet and I use the cheap crap from the Depot.

But with that said I am about to put together a system inside my Antec SX830 case with my ASUS A7V8X-X with 3 all copper blocks that I made myself that will have copper connections soldered onto the tops and I plan on using Copper pipe for the longer runs. I plan on using about 1/2" long peices of tubing to make the main connections from the pipe to the blocks, rad and pump. Everything else will be Copper pipe with soldered connections. If I do it right it will be much easier to take apart and put back together and generally "cleaner" looking. If I do it right that is.

That is my turkey day weekend project. I like the idea of all copper piping and all copper blocks.

[iroc409]

has anybody tried braided stainless, like the stuff used in race cars and such? i was thinking that stuff would look pretty cool, even if you used the knock-off stuff, and be pretty durable. probably look really nice in aluminum cases and such.

probably overkill, but just curious.

[pHaestus]

Jaydee:

If you are using copper pipe then you might as well be obsessive about it. Skip the pipe cutting tool and use a hacksaw for all cuts. The tool will cause you to get a decrease in pipe sides at the edge that will increase pressure drop. And use 2 45s instead of one 90 when possible.

And post pictures when done

[jaydee]

Originally posted by pHaestus
Jaydee:

If you are using copper pipe then you might as well be obsessive about it. Skip the pipe cutting tool and use a hacksaw for all cuts. The tool will cause you to get a decrease in pipe sides at the edge that will increase pressure drop. And use 2 45s instead of one 90 when possible.

And post pictures when done

Actually that was my plan, I even got the 45's already. But I will admit I am going to use the hack saw because I am to cheap to by the pipe cutter.

Main reason I am using pipe though is not because it is needed, but because it is cleaner looking and the way the POS ASUS board is setup it is going to need some nasty tight turns from the CPU-NB-GPU.

I actually havn't decided if the pump and rad are going to be inside the case or not yet. If not I will hard pipe everything to the back of the case and use regular hose from there. Almost rather the pump and rad be outside the case. In fact I have a couple old small AT cases that would work to house the rad and pump. Hummmmm... Well I got 4 1/2 days off this weekend so I will have time to figure it all out.

[Blackeagle]

A good point regarding use of a hack saw. I like the idea of copper pipe very much my self. Should be better for a slight increase in cooling, and lower pressure drop due to the slightly larger ID at the same time.

But why not use softer/bendable copper pipe like used in air conditioning & heating systems, even used to plumb some tight places in homes under sinks and bathroom vanitys. The best of both worlds perhaps. All the advantages of hard copper, but easier to route like plexi tube as well.

I've been thinking on use of this bendable copper for the system I want to build. I'm thinking of making use of 5/8" line with just a bit of clear tube to connect the 5/8" copper line to blocks. Should allow very low pressure drop with ease of routing. My local hardware sells it by the foot so I won't have to buy a whole coil.

Only thing that bothers me is, if it's a good idea, why don't I see others doing it?:shrug:

[jaydee]

Originally posted by Blackeagle


Only thing that bothers me is, if it's a good idea, why don't I see others doing it?:shrug:

I looked at it while I was at the Depot but it was to bulky and to expensive. If I wasn't a cheap basterd I might have tried it. I also couldn't figure out how I was going to get the hose to attach the the end of it.

[killernoodle]

Copper pipe is pretty permanant though and makes the system difficult to remove without bending and kinking the pipes permanently. I would recommend using a pvc pipe resevior with proper end caps and proper pvc glue, and all barbs of the plastic variety. These tend to leak less and seal around hose barbs better. Also, going with some kind of epoxy on all the threads of the fittings would also be a great thing.

The best type of resevior hooks directly to the pump inlet with the max diameter fitting allowed for the pump. There is less cavitation with this type of setup because there is less restriction on the pump inlet. solid copper waterblocks are great for saftey, but you sacrafice the ability to take it apart and clean it periodically. 2 copper halves with a properly machined o-ring is your best bet. The less plexi in the system the better, especially when using extreme mounting pressures or any drag from the lines.

Good solid pumps are a must, especially something overbuilt like the danner pumps. They have an O-ring that some people claim to leak; a problem easily solved by a generous amount of petrolium gelly on the ring. This keeps the ring "wet" while also repelling water, a property common with all non-polar substances (oil based). It is far better than gooping it permanantly and makes much less mess. Also, you never want to overtighten your fittings. This will increase the chance of a crack forming if you have a polycarbonate or acrylic topped block.

[jaydee]

Originally posted by killernoodle
[b]Copper pipe is pretty permanant though and makes the system difficult to remove without bending and kinking the pipes permanently. I would recommend using a pvc pipe resevior with proper end caps and proper pvc glue, and all barbs of the plastic variety. These tend to leak less and seal around hose barbs better. Also, going with some kind of epoxy on all the threads of the fittings would also be a great thing.

I will be using clear hose to connect the copper pipe to connections on all the parts so all you have to do is undo the hose clamp and pull the pipe loose. Will be just as easy as tubing.

The best type of resevior hooks directly to the pump inlet with the max diameter fitting allowed for the pump. There is less cavitation with this type of setup because there is less restriction on the pump inlet. solid copper waterblocks are great for saftey, but you sacrafice the ability to take it apart and clean it periodically. 2 copper halves with a properly machined o-ring is your best bet. The less plexi in the system the better, especially when using extreme mounting pressures or any drag from the lines.

1st no res is better. Just a waste of space and a needless restriction. Don't need it, get rid of it. Second the O-ring copper blocks is what I am making. Thats what i ment by all copper, didn't say "solid" copper. Here is my CPU and GPU blocks.



North bridge block will be similar.

[Grayson]

Hi Guys

As a SCUBA diver I have some experience with O Rings.

We have to keep them very clean and we use silicon grease in a very thin layer to seal gauges and camera cases.

I wonder if this might aply to water blocks? :shrug:

Grayson

[msv]

Thanx for Your concern, fellows.
The terminology is a bit confusing, though.
A barb is a stiff, short pipe, copper, brass, plastic, etc. on to which You pull the tube, right?
Then what is the hose?
I´ve checked another thread at this forum. Is the hose the hole into which the barb is seated?
Jaydee, You´re right, my pump (Eheim 1048) really can´t be considered "huge".
regards
Mikael S.

[airspirit]

A solid system of copper pipe or PVC IS permanent, and that is the point. If designed right, the only lengths of tubing will be short stretches between components and the framework, and the entire system can be lifted out of the case as a whole with no mangling of your system. As I said before: doing something like that requires a great deal of planning and design or will be near impossible to implement, but if done right can be a perfect and damn near bulletproof solution.