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Water Block Design / Construction Building your own block? Need info on designing one? Heres where to do it

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Unread 01-31-2004, 03:31 AM   #1
-J-
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Default need help, r9800 ramblocks

ok, my 9800 @ 9800p mems are really hot.

core watercooled (the block is ready, havent installed yet) but need to do something about the mems.

the core block is a small 4x5cm rotor block. thats easy.

but the mems are a hole different story. i only have a drill press and a dremel. it wouldnt be that dificult to do a rotor mem block, but mi problem is the base and the holding gear.

any ideas how to shape the base so that i can avoid all the stuff surrounding the mems? and how to hold it in place?

ive seen there are a couple of holes close to the mems, but not enough to hold 4 independent blocks for each pair of mems.

would really thank any ideas, pics from similar blocks or anything usefull.
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Unread 02-09-2004, 01:17 PM   #2
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ive been thinking about cooling my 9700 mem aswell. im assumeing they have the same basic layout as a 9800, here is a render of my card: http://server5.uploadit.org/files/kbn2k3-9700np2.jpg

the main problem is that it would be very dificult to have a one peice block for cooling 4 modules near each other but on oppisite sides. i also dont think any design with a single block for each side would be very good - that leaves four seperate blocks of some kind. the easesy, cheapest, but slightly ugly and messy way to cool all of them would be like so:
http://server5.uploadit.org/files/kbn2k3-9700np2r1.jpg
having a peice of copper pipe running along the card, with thin copper sheet soldered to it which is mounted some how onto the ram. note that on my card there are small SMD between each 2 bga ram chips that i didnt include in my design, i think it wouldnt be hard to do that afterwards, but it may be different on your card.
another way to do it which i have thought about would be having a block for each two ram chips, about 2cm tall, covering both rams and going over the edge of the card enough for a mouning using a bolt to hold the two together on each side of the card. they would be connected together using normal tubing or copper pipe (due to the 180 degree bend needed). in this design the blocks should give maximum flow rates and not be restrictive, as ram does not output much heat.

also my card has no holes around the mems - thats why i think holding two blocks together with a bolt and a spring between them would be best for mine.
if you want i can send you the model of my card so that you can play around with your own designs. ive used truespace3 which is a free 20mb download from Caligari's site.
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Unread 02-09-2004, 02:59 PM   #3
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The 9700 & 9800 are not easy to make ram blocks for because of the messy card layout, but nothing is impossible

With the 9700 Pro I had three card blocks in total, but wanted less connections and all 8mm festo for 9800 pro. In making the cooler for that I decided I'd try to make it one block for all the ram, (it's a two part block that bolts together and seals as one). Low profile backside block was so it could be used in my shuttle WC project too...



Those were made on a manual mill but you can make similar stuff on basic equipment, it's just harder / takes longer.

I personally want a 3d card block to be one inflow / one outflow, a single slot solution and cool the gpu & ram (on both sides). I'm almost there with FX 5900 U........
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Unread 02-09-2004, 04:06 PM   #4
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bladerunner thats a very nice block!
how did you manage to seal the mem blocks together where the barbs are? i couldnt think of any easy way to do it..
your 9700 article has gave me a few ideas but i will try to stick to seperate blocks for each mem chips. this is my current gpu block which would get in the way of any channel between the two mem blocks on the front side http://server5.uploadit.org/files/kbn2k3-wbfin1.JPG
can you think of anyway to make channels between the blocks like you have, but over the capacitor area instead without using a much thicker peice of copper?
i will be changing the pipe on it soon to a proper lid so the angles of the tubing are not so annoying.
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Unread 02-09-2004, 04:41 PM   #5
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The first image in my last reply is also a link to a topic that has some build details until I get it written up for my site.

There are many ways to do it but, you may be restricted by your tooling. Someone here made a 9500 block using a drill press and some great ingenuity

The topic is HERE and read through it all to understand how he made it.. I was impressed
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Unread 02-11-2004, 12:06 AM   #6
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i have though a way to make a ram block without having to make such a complex block (im really unable to do such a peace of art).

i only have a drill press.

ill guess ill start making that block as soon as i finish my new blocks that im working on.
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Unread 02-11-2004, 04:21 AM   #7
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Funny... I've been working on a solution for an Ati All-in-Wonder Radeon 9700 Pro card.

Currently it's all just drawings and LOTS of measurements. I've posted some of the pictures here.

I've made an initial design that probably could use some passage refinement, but I'll post it here for you to look at.
Attached Images
File Type: gif Ati_AIW_9700_Pro_Solution-Front.gif (72.5 KB, 43 views)
File Type: gif Ati_AIW_9700_Pro_Solution-Edge.gif (19.2 KB, 22 views)
File Type: gif Ati_AIW_9700_Pro_Solution-Back.gif (68.7 KB, 32 views)
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Unread 02-12-2004, 12:05 AM   #8
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timelord, the thing is that i dont have tools so that i can mill a peace of copper, so i thouth on using acrilic as the main part of the block, and only having a copper base over the mems.

as soon as i get the 3d studio max running again ill make some models
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Unread 02-12-2004, 07:17 AM   #9
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Like I said it is complex making ram blocks, especially for a 9X series card.

The trouble with using a copper plate, is the surface mounts that are around the ram but higher, (as mentioned in my 9700 build article). To avoid these it would have to be a very complex shape or relief's would need to be milled.

I've been looking at detailed close ups of the Asus 9800Xt (digit-life) to see if my 9800 pro cooler would fit it, (I want the temp monitoring of the Asus GPU & Ram). Although the ram layout is the same they have repositioned the holes between the ram. My cooler design doesn't use these holes but in repositioning them they have moved some surface mount components. To make my cooler fit I'd need to mill some extra relief's, and there might be other things I wouldn't be sure until I have the XT in front of me.

In this sense milling the complete base about 1mm except for ram sized protrusions, (like other peoples designs), would be a better idea in hindsight. The truth though is we will never be sure what the next cards layout is going to be, so can't really make any design future proof...

Also what tooling do you have? the previous link I posted (you posted in that topic) used a post drill and the hydrae block (do a search here for it) was also made with basic equipment and a lot of time / dedication........
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Unread 02-12-2004, 09:15 AM   #10
MMZ_TimeLord
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-J- :

It was just for your reference and review. I didn't expect you could build it very easily. I think it could be done though.

BladeRunner :

I think that anyone could probably do the base layout with basic tools, it would just be a rougher layout.

As for the individual components that are taller than the RAM... once you got to the point where you had the base pads for the core and RAM done... you put HS compound (cheap white stuff) on the components (Just a drop off a toothpick), then put your block in place to get the positions of the components. Pull the block off and then use a center punch to mark the centers of the reliefs and drill out by hand... time consuming and not as accurate as measuring with calipers, but could work out nicely.

I'll probably use that technique to verify my positions before and after milling the reliefs so I can verify clearances.

I did have those very component reliefs marked on my drawings BTW...
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Unread 02-12-2004, 09:42 AM   #11
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Yeah I used the same method as you to mark where components are touching except I used some car wheel bearing grease as Its cheap a plentiful. My point was more thinking of a design that "J" proposed that has a plate of copper maybe 2 to 3mm thick with an acrylic top. To mill relief's only 1mm or 2mm deep without going through the plate would be tricky without a stable mill bed. Using protrusions for core ram is the other way that avoids this but then if you are making a one piece block the height difference / chip contact is very difficult to ensure, unless you accept using a chewing gum type Tim. Look forward to seeing your cooler in the "flesh" MMZ_TimeLord
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Last edited by BladeRunner; 02-12-2004 at 11:28 AM.
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Unread 02-12-2004, 10:44 AM   #12
MMZ_TimeLord
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I'm still doing some water passage revisions and get the materials before I can start.

I'm looking at a single in out at the top of the card now like on your 9800 RAM solution, but for the whole cooling solution for the card.

You are ... as I've said in the past BladeRunner... "an inspiration"
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