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Water Block Design / Construction Building your own block? Need info on designing one? Heres where to do it

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Unread 04-19-2004, 11:58 AM   #26
MC
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cool, thanks for the heads up on looking for aluminum block cars/motorcycles for al hc's and small rads. And speak of evil...the evil empire got us yesterday.

edit/addition....

Almost forgot I started up my anodization tanks today. Found out zinc and battery acid don't mix well...

I'll add some pics when the stuff comes out

Last edited by MC; 04-19-2004 at 12:17 PM.
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Unread 04-19-2004, 01:14 PM   #27
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He he, that should be an interesting pic! Zinc and battery acid, that is...
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Unread 04-19-2004, 06:06 PM   #28
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Interesting indeed! I didn't even realize I should be taking a picture after I put a part with zinc soldered aluminum piece into the acid bath. Lemme just say it kinda looked like batteryacid-flavored 7-UP, and my rectifier wasn't even plugged in yet. The zinc instantly started gassing in the acid and was gone in about minutes time.

So I got good news and bad news.

Good News: I now know what happens to the zinc based aluminum welding/soldering material when it is introduced to an anodizing tank.

Bad News: I now need to find out where I can get rid of 5 gallons of battery-acid/water solution and start a new fresh acid bath.

I think what happened is that the acid "ate" the zinc. The zinc has now contaminated the acid and when the aluminum starts its anodization reaction the free-floating zinc can easily find its way in to the Al oxide honey-comb(see picture in previous post. With the zinc impregnated in to the anodic layer the dye basically has no where to go, leaving me with a poorly dyed piece of aluminum ready for a lye bath.

At least while staring at the acid chewing up the zinc I figured out simpler different method for my hard drive coolers pass through tubes. Tap the holes and screw in some nylon npt fittings. Of course that leaves me with raw Al in the tapped holes, but I will etch the old contaminated anodic layer off and and re-anodize.

-mc
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Unread 04-19-2004, 07:54 PM   #29
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Wow, that's really nice work!
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Unread 04-19-2004, 08:09 PM   #30
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Quote:
Bad News: I now need to find out where I can get rid of 5 gallons of battery-acid/water solution and start a new fresh acid bath.
I'm just guessing, but suspect that you should start by neutralizing the acid w/ baking soda or equivalent. What's left may be safe to dispose of w/o to much trauma. I know that sulfur isn't that nasty, and neither is zinc.

One of the websites mentioned above in the 'how to annodize' post suggested NAPA as a good source for battery acid. Another was an EPA site w/ lots of pointers to stuff that would presumably tell you how to get rid of the solutions "properly".

The NPT fittings do sound like the best approach to connecting your parts, probably far easier than the other alternative, namely firing up the MIG welder...

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Designing system, will have Tyan S2468UGN Dual Athlon MOBO, SCSI HDDS, other goodies. Will run LINUX only. Want to have silent running, minimal fans, and water cooled. Probably not OC'c
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Unread 04-19-2004, 08:19 PM   #31
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I concur. Figure out how to neutralize it, then find a disposal service. You might start by contacting your local authorities; they usually know...
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Unread 04-19-2004, 10:46 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigben2k
I concur. Figure out how to neutralize it, then find a disposal service. You might start by contacting your local authorities; they usually know...

Weird that you mentioned that, thats exactly what I did, only because coincidently in the mail today came a town reminder about hazardous material pick up day. I suspected they usually take used motor oil and paint and such, so I called and checked but they said they would take it, as is, no less. That was easy...Someone somewhere new I was gonna do something dumb today I guess. :shrug:

Anywho I got a new "box-o-acid" from napa. comes in a bag-in-a-box with a rubber tube, kinda like those old milk dispensers. Stuffs cheap, less than $8 for like 3 quarts I think it said...I forgot already.

Dunno why I was in such a rush to get new acid, I decided it'd be cheaper in the long run to start cuttin the copper I ordered and stop wastin time on prototypin. I think I'll use plastic tops though. Seems a waste to use copper for tops. Any suggestions on what plastic top use? I been leaning on this stuff:


From www.mcmaster.com

Polyethylene (LDPE)

For information about plastics and plastic hardness, see page 3302 .

Additional Information: For additional information about the products on this page, including mechanical and physical properties, click on the Additional Information links below.


Low-Density Polyethylene (LDPE)
• Color: Opaque white, unless noted
• Temp. Range: -40° to +110° F, unless noted
• Softening Temp.: 235° F, unless noted
• Tensile Strength: Poor • Impact Strength: Excellent, unless noted
• Good electrical insulator, unless noted
• Use indoors, unless noted
• Machine with standard tooling
• Hardness: Shore D42-D48, unless noted Low-density polyethylene (LDPE) has excellent moisture resistance, which makes it ideal for high humidity and direct water contact applications. Often used in shrink-wrap films, garment bags, and tote boxes.
Additional Information: Click here (See top of page for details)


or Polycarbonate(lexan/tuffak/hyzod), dunno if it tends to crack or not and if a seal/cement is available (ie: weld-on 3 or 4).
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-MC
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Unread 04-19-2004, 11:21 PM   #33
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Yeah, that'll work. Jon Fettig is familiar with Delrin, you might want to ask him.

The choice of plastic here may depend on your sealing solution: if you use a gasket (RTV silicone) then your choice is wide. If however you choose to machine a groove for an o-ring, your options are going to have to include the "machineability" of the plastic. A minor issue, but still something you might want to be aware of...

I'm not finished with my block, but I opted for the polycarb sample sheets from McMaster: they're 6" by 6" and 1/4" thick, which is fine just the way it is (but I'm still going to try to double it to 1/2") and I picked up IPS Weld-On #4, which I have yet to open... (it's in a box, somewhere... )
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Unread 04-20-2004, 05:20 AM   #34
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Zinc + sulfuric acid = hydrogen and zinc-sulfate. It's the standard quick-and-dirty way of generating hydrogen gas in high school chem lab.
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Unread 04-20-2004, 09:42 AM   #35
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MC Ive used polyethelene. Its good and not at all brittle, so cracking/overtightning of barbs wont be a problem. Its very easy to machine aswell, probably easyer than polycarb/others..
Polyethene is one of the plastics that cant be glued or joined easly with other plastics to get a good mechanical bond, I tryed with several glues...

I used sillicone sealant to get my blocks sealed, and they havent leaked yet (I tested it on mains water, thats about 20 - 35psi iirc?)
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Unread 04-20-2004, 10:37 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigben2k
Yeah, that'll work. Jon Fettig is familiar with Delrin, you might want to ask him.

The choice of plastic here may depend on your sealing solution: if you use a gasket (RTV silicone) then your choice is wide. If however you choose to machine a groove for an o-ring, your options are going to have to include the "machineability" of the plastic. A minor issue, but still something you might want to be aware of...
For sealing the block to the top I have both 1/8" x 2-1/8" buna o-rings and sheets of buna and strips 2" wide x 5 feet. The strip material does a fantasic job of sealing my HD block and the o-rings did well with the aluminum so I would imagine copper and a hard plastic would seal easily as well...leaning towards the lexan again. I dunno if the poly-ethylene is resiliant enuff. Does the polyethylene seal against an o-ring well? If it does well with o-rings I'll order that from McMaster-Carr. There's a glass company locally that has lexan scraps, I'll try milling some if I get out shopping today.

I would imagine copper/hardplastic to seal just as well as this did.
Actually I know it does. I have a maze3 kicking around somewhere, oddly never used it.
The middle piece has no o-ring channel, the top piece has one on the underside(it was easier milling)

thanx for any insights,

-MC


Had to edit this to add on...no reason to repost.

This post was originally started to discuss this idea...concerning the zinc isuue tho I think I can easily replicate this in copper...actually easier:


this was fabicated by milling a 1/8" channel down the center (longitudinally) of a 5-1/2" piece of 1/4" aluminum. I used a ball-end endmill to mill the top for the tube to sit in and used zinc to solder the pieces together. I think I can easily replicate this in copper. The unit clamped the stick of ram very nicly as I had put the flat piece in a vise it crimped it ever so slightly and made for perfect pressure. I had milled it off center by accident, not allowing for the correct cutter compensation which made it work all that much better. I think I can easily mill out 3 of em with the center stick having it's tube on the center of the top of the flat and the right and left units having their tubes offset respectively to allow for them to sit all 3 side by side.

Again thanks for any insights,

-MC

Last edited by MC; 04-20-2004 at 10:53 AM. Reason: Original post was for water cooling ram...here was my idea.
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Unread 04-20-2004, 11:14 AM   #37
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I cant think of any reson why polyethelene wouldnt seal well with an o-ring. Imo it is the perfect material for waterblock tops apart from the fact that its not clear, but niether is anodised aluminuim tops which seem v common. Polyethelene would proabably look very nice if painted. Would anyone know if a special kind of plaint would be needed? I think any normal paint for plastics should work?
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