My Test Bench Project Log. - Page 2

bigben2k · 03-17-2005, 09:42 PM

I'd never assume that a resistor is not required.

The metering device may very well send pulses that are not "clipped" or otherwise "raw", requiring either some kind of diode or a resistor.

What you describe here is a blown input, due to a high output signal from the meter, burning out your fan header.

Unfortunately, I have no info on the input limits of fan headers, but it can't be too hard to find.

jaydee · 03-29-2005, 01:12 PM

Back from Georgia finally. 2 packages were here awaiting for my arrival.

I was under the impression the plumbing config for the flow meter was a connection on the top and bottom. I was pleasantly surprised to find the multiple plumbing options. This will make plumping it much easier.
The Cole Parmer Thermometer looks to be in great shape. It has 3 YSI RTD probes with some kind of seals on them marked Jan 2005. Calibration looks to be in order thought. 2 probes read within .03C of each other while the 3rd is 1.5C off the others. I am still waiting on the CrystalFontz 633 although I am not sure how I will end up using that. If I can calibrate this Cole Parmer unit then is has all the temp readings I need. WB IN, WB OUT and die temp. That with the GPM measurement I should be able to get some better results.

jaydee · 03-29-2005, 11:04 PM

I got the CrystalFontz 633 today in the mail. Thanks 9mm. Will try to figure out how to hook it up tomorrow. Also working on plumbing the Flow meter and sensors into the loop.

jaydee · 03-30-2005, 08:27 AM

Looking at CrystalFontz's website trying to figure out how the hell to hook this USB cable to my mobo I discovered they are located here in Spokane!

Anyway I have no idea how to get this USB hooked up.... The cables that came with it have a small ass 2mm connector that goes to nothing I can find on the 633 unit...

EDIT: I found it hiding under the USB PCB.

jaydee · 03-30-2005, 05:53 PM

I spent the day playing with the CF633 and plumbing in my test bench. I got 8 Dow sensors with the CF633 and found 4 probes read real close and 2 are almost identical. I am using the two closest one's in the bench. 1 under the CPU and onw water in. The flow meter works good. Attached is a graph of the two sensors I picked.

jaydee · 04-07-2005, 11:00 PM

Test bench as it stands now.

HydroThruster500 pump
Cole Parmer Thermometer taking water in and water out temps.
CF633 Taking CPU temp under CPU.
Flow meter posted above.
ABit KD7 mobo
XP1700+ @ 1667mhz 1.75V

I just got the plumbing done and leak tested. I can get 3.6GPM through the Maze4 wide open. That is a lot better than the 1.7GPM I got with the VIA2600. I will be able to take a wider range of flow measurments.

I really like the Cole Parmer thermometer. Its response rates are very fast and all probes read within .01C of each other. The probe is in direct contact with the water aswell which should make the temps more accurate as the CF633 probes where covered in silicone.

I forgot to tighten a clamp on the Maze 4 and water leaked on the mobo. Luckily it had no power going to it so I excpect no damage. Going to let it dry tonight before powering up tomorrow.

Next step is a diode reader. I decided to use my second new Aopen mobo to build a file server and I will use it to record temps. So I should be able to rig up a Maxim6657 chip powered diode reader through the SMBbus and use MBM to record temps. Will order that stuff when I get back from Cali.

jaydee · 04-09-2005, 05:08 PM

As it stands now.
I got 2 Radio Shack 13.8V 15amp Power Supplies. I hooked them up in series to get 27.6V at 15amp. That is powering my die sim heater cartridge. The heater cartridge is 40VDC 150watt 10.7ohms. That means with those power supplies in series I am getting approx 71watts of power to the die sim. I got the Cole Parmer Thermometer hooked up for water in and water out. It is a nice unit with very rapid pickup on the temp changes. If I turn my rad fan on it instantly picks up the changes. I have the CF633 unit taking temps from the die sim. The Die sim has a 10mm x 10mm die area (100mm sq.). It is currently only insulated by electrical tape. I have the HydroThruster500 plumbed in. I got a 120mm fan at 120Cfm on the rad.

What to do:
1) Get a good DMM with voltage and amp readings.
2) Insulate die sim (probably make a whole new one actually).
3) Get a better flow meter. The one I got is ok but I would like a magnetic one.
4) Figure out how to take pressure measurements, buy the equipment and install it.
5) Get a better valve for adjusting flow. I got a standard gate valve now that actually works fine but I think a good needle valve would be better.

jaydee · 05-04-2005, 06:52 PM

I think I am going to forget the automation aspect and just go with manual input data.

I like the Cole Pamer thermometer enough to use it for all temp monitoring. I already have it reading water in and water out. I am going to make a new die sim slug that will incorporate a 3rd probe from it for die temp. Taking the measurments from one thermometer is probably better over all anyway.

I am going to replace the HydroThruster500 with another one. I am not to happy with the impellor seizing up at 32C. I will probably get a Little Giant 2 MDQ or similar.

What to do?

1) Build new die sim.
2) Get new pump.
3) Get new radiator.
4) Get some soft silicone hose.
5) Get a pressure guage of some kind.
6) Replumb System with new parts.
7) Find a decent DMM.

After that I should be pretty set to start doing reviews if I decide to.

pHaestus · 05-04-2005, 07:06 PM

1a) for pH

Some SERIOUS comments:
I actually really like my Digitec thermometers that use thermistors. They are incredibly robust and very stable. But they aren't much good for measuring air temperatures because the fluctuations kill you (you just can't physically record temperatures rapidly enough to get good statistically sound data).

Does the Cole-Parmer unit accept YSI 400 or 700 or both type thermistors? If it accepts 400 then look for the little 1/8" sheathed probes. I have a Fisher Scientific number for them if needed. They'd be good for your die sim; better than the larger units for sure. Do you need any more 700 series probes? I have a box full of them for liquid or air measurement (from my Digitecs)...

I would get at least another Cole-Parmer unit if you possibly can. You probably have to give the temperature reading a minute or two (check the manual) to stabilize fully when you switch channels. This makes it hard to record die and water in temps. I have 3 digitecs on top of one another (wb in, wb out, and air) and that seems to work "OK" for doing testing.

jaydee · 05-04-2005, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pHaestus

1a) for pH

Some SERIOUS comments:
I actually really like my Digitec thermometers that use thermistors. They are incredibly robust and very stable. But they aren't much good for measuring air temperatures because the fluctuations kill you (you just can't physically record temperatures rapidly enough to get good statistically sound data).

Does the Cole-Parmer unit accept YSI 400 or 700 or both type thermistors? If it accepts 400 then look for the little 1/8" sheathed probes. I have a Fisher Scientific number for them if needed. They'd be good for your die sim; better than the larger units for sure. Do you need any more 700 series probes? I have a box full of them for liquid or air measurement (from my Digitecs)...

I would get at least another Cole-Parmer unit if you possibly can. You probably have to give the temperature reading a minute or two (check the manual) to stabilize fully when you switch channels. This makes it hard to record die and water in temps. I have 3 digitecs on top of one another (wb in, wb out, and air) and that seems to work "OK" for doing testing.

I am not 100% sure but I think the Digitec D5830 is the same as the Cole Parmer unit I got. Digitec unit: http://www.process-controls.com/Inst...ors_D5830.html . My Cole Parmer unit: http://www.coleparmer.com/catalog/pr...=1&sel=0850216
They look identical. Which units do you have?

The one I have has a temp differential button. I hit that button and it tells me the temp differential between 2 probes.

I was planing on using that for the dT measurments. It accepts 400, 500 and 700 series. The three probes I got now are rather large, they are 700 series. I would like to get some smaller one's. I will look into those 400 series one's. I guess I need those to design the die sim around.

pHaestus · 05-04-2005, 09:24 PM

I think the YSI 423 was the one I was looking at:

"Small, semi-flexible nylon tube with epoxy tip for frozen food packages, rectal temperatures, small animals, and more. Has 304.8cm (10') vinyl-covered shielded wire with phone plug. Tube length: 6.4cm (21/2"). Tip diameter: 0.3cm (1/8"). Time constant: 1.4 seconds. Range: –40 to 100°C."

If it takes the 500 series then look seriously at the YSI 551:

"Hypodermic probe for subcutaneous, intramuscular, intravenous, and small area measurement. Probe is 20-gauge stainless steel, epoxy-sealed. Not electrically isolated. Has 304.8cm (10') non-detachable cable with 0.6cm (1/4") phone plug. Range: 0 to 70°C . Not autoclavable."

Temperature range and need for electrical isolation might be a concern though...

I have a bunch of the 702s

The Cole-Parmer should have analog out, right? Could always go that route to automation...

jaydee · 05-04-2005, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pHaestus

I think the YSI 423 was the one I was looking at:

"Small, semi-flexible nylon tube with epoxy tip for frozen food packages, rectal temperatures, small animals, and more. Has 304.8cm (10') vinyl-covered shielded wire with phone plug. Tube length: 6.4cm (21/2"). Tip diameter: 0.3cm (1/8"). Time constant: 1.4 seconds. Range: –40 to 100°C."

If it takes the 500 series then look seriously at the YSI 551:

"Hypodermic probe for subcutaneous, intramuscular, intravenous, and small area measurement. Probe is 20-gauge stainless steel, epoxy-sealed. Not electrically isolated. Has 304.8cm (10') non-detachable cable with 0.6cm (1/4") phone plug. Range: 0 to 70°C . Not autoclavable."

Temperature range and need for electrical isolation might be a concern though...

I have a bunch of the 702s

The Cole-Parmer should have analog out, right? Could always go that route to automation...

According to their site I have the 703 tubular probe. Certainly not what I want in the die sim. The 423 does look good. 1/8" is a little large but it will make it a hell of a lot easier to drill the hole in the step of the die slug. 1/16" is very hard in the design of Bill's.

The 702 looks the same as the 423 so I assume accuracy is the difference? I can't seem to find anything on the 500 series. Maybe they discontinued it?

The Cole Parmer unit I got only has anolog output for 1 probe only. So I don't think it would be all that usefull.

jaydee · 08-07-2005, 09:44 PM

I had a lot of free time this weekend so I decided to re-plumb the test bench and get the rad hooked to the ComAir Rotron. I added a couple cheap pressure gauges that will not be used. They are just place holders for either a couple digital one's or a differential manometer. I got a Probe on the inlet of the radiator (fan is pulling air through), a probe at water in, and a probe on the die sim. That will be enough for water block testing. I just got the last parts sealed up so I am going to wait until later, probably a day or two, to do a test run.

Also that big black thing right after the flow meter is a cleanable in-line filter.

plywood99 · 08-08-2005, 06:41 PM

Jaydee, your setup is looking better all the time. When will you be back to testing blocks? And have you compared Swifty 6000 series to any of your blocks. How do they compare??

Reason for asking is I'm currently looking into making a small run of blocks myself and was looking for a point of reference, aka the swifty block. Also would you be willing to test my block when it is done?

Thanks in advance...

jaydee · 08-08-2005, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plywood99

Jaydee, your setup is looking better all the time. When will you be back to testing blocks? And have you compared Swifty 6000 series to any of your blocks. How do they compare??

Reason for asking is I'm currently looking into making a small run of blocks myself and was looking for a point of reference, aka the swifty block. Also would you be willing to test my block when it is done?

Thanks in advance...

I am moving at the end of the month so it will be a week into September before I can get the bench setup at the new place and ready to go. I have yet to get any Swiftech blocks. I have a White Watter LE and a TDX comming and a Maze 3 and 4 in hand. After I move I will be ordering a Swiftech 6002, Storm, and another block I have yet to choose. I will be getting another block that has yet to hit the market aswell that sounds good.

I will test your block.

bigben2k · 08-09-2005, 11:18 AM

Again, as a member of the WBTA, you have access to a Swiftech 5002 and 6002 (among others); just let me know.

03-17-2005, 09:42 PM	#26
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	I'd never assume that a resistor is not required. The metering device may very well send pulses that are not "clipped" or otherwise "raw", requiring either some kind of diode or a resistor. What you describe here is a blown input, due to a high output signal from the meter, burning out your fan header. Unfortunately, I have no info on the input limits of fan headers, but it can't be too hard to find. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

05-04-2005, 07:06 PM	#34
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	1a) for pH Some SERIOUS comments: I actually really like my Digitec thermometers that use thermistors. They are incredibly robust and very stable. But they aren't much good for measuring air temperatures because the fluctuations kill you (you just can't physically record temperatures rapidly enough to get good statistically sound data). Does the Cole-Parmer unit accept YSI 400 or 700 or both type thermistors? If it accepts 400 then look for the little 1/8" sheathed probes. I have a Fisher Scientific number for them if needed. They'd be good for your die sim; better than the larger units for sure. Do you need any more 700 series probes? I have a box full of them for liquid or air measurement (from my Digitecs)... I would get at least another Cole-Parmer unit if you possibly can. You probably have to give the temperature reading a minute or two (check the manual) to stabilize fully when you switch channels. This makes it hard to record die and water in temps. I have 3 digitecs on top of one another (wb in, wb out, and air) and that seems to work "OK" for doing testing. __________________ Getting paid like a biker with the best crank... -MF DOOM Last edited by pHaestus; 05-04-2005 at 07:16 PM.

05-04-2005, 09:24 PM	#36
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	I think the YSI 423 was the one I was looking at: "Small, semi-flexible nylon tube with epoxy tip for frozen food packages, rectal temperatures, small animals, and more. Has 304.8cm (10') vinyl-covered shielded wire with phone plug. Tube length: 6.4cm (21/2"). Tip diameter: 0.3cm (1/8"). Time constant: 1.4 seconds. Range: –40 to 100°C." If it takes the 500 series then look seriously at the YSI 551: "Hypodermic probe for subcutaneous, intramuscular, intravenous, and small area measurement. Probe is 20-gauge stainless steel, epoxy-sealed. Not electrically isolated. Has 304.8cm (10') non-detachable cable with 0.6cm (1/4") phone plug. Range: 0 to 70°C . Not autoclavable." Temperature range and need for electrical isolation might be a concern though... I have a bunch of the 702s The Cole-Parmer should have analog out, right? Could always go that route to automation... __________________ Getting paid like a biker with the best crank... -MF DOOM

08-09-2005, 11:18 AM	#41
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Again, as a member of the WBTA, you have access to a Swiftech 5002 and 6002 (among others); just let me know. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

03-29-2005, 01:12 PM	#27
jaydee Put up or Shut Up Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 6,506	Back from Georgia finally. 2 packages were here awaiting for my arrival. I was under the impression the plumbing config for the flow meter was a connection on the top and bottom. I was pleasantly surprised to find the multiple plumbing options. This will make plumping it much easier. The Cole Parmer Thermometer looks to be in great shape. It has 3 YSI RTD probes with some kind of seals on them marked Jan 2005. Calibration looks to be in order thought. 2 probes read within .03C of each other while the 3rd is 1.5C off the others. I am still waiting on the CrystalFontz 633 although I am not sure how I will end up using that. If I can calibrate this Cole Parmer unit then is has all the temp readings I need. WB IN, WB OUT and die temp. That with the GPM measurement I should be able to get some better results.

03-29-2005, 11:04 PM	#28
jaydee Put up or Shut Up Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 6,506	I got the CrystalFontz 633 today in the mail. Thanks 9mm. Will try to figure out how to hook it up tomorrow. Also working on plumbing the Flow meter and sensors into the loop.

03-30-2005, 08:27 AM	#29
jaydee Put up or Shut Up Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 6,506	Looking at CrystalFontz's website trying to figure out how the hell to hook this USB cable to my mobo I discovered they are located here in Spokane! Anyway I have no idea how to get this USB hooked up.... The cables that came with it have a small ass 2mm connector that goes to nothing I can find on the 633 unit... EDIT: I found it hiding under the USB PCB.

04-07-2005, 11:00 PM	#31
jaydee Put up or Shut Up Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 6,506	Test bench as it stands now. HydroThruster500 pump Cole Parmer Thermometer taking water in and water out temps. CF633 Taking CPU temp under CPU. Flow meter posted above. ABit KD7 mobo XP1700+ @ 1667mhz 1.75V I just got the plumbing done and leak tested. I can get 3.6GPM through the Maze4 wide open. That is a lot better than the 1.7GPM I got with the VIA2600. I will be able to take a wider range of flow measurments. I really like the Cole Parmer thermometer. Its response rates are very fast and all probes read within .01C of each other. The probe is in direct contact with the water aswell which should make the temps more accurate as the CF633 probes where covered in silicone. I forgot to tighten a clamp on the Maze 4 and water leaked on the mobo. Luckily it had no power going to it so I excpect no damage. Going to let it dry tonight before powering up tomorrow. Next step is a diode reader. I decided to use my second new Aopen mobo to build a file server and I will use it to record temps. So I should be able to rig up a Maxim6657 chip powered diode reader through the SMBbus and use MBM to record temps. Will order that stuff when I get back from Cali.

04-09-2005, 05:08 PM	#32
jaydee Put up or Shut Up Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 6,506	As it stands now. I got 2 Radio Shack 13.8V 15amp Power Supplies. I hooked them up in series to get 27.6V at 15amp. That is powering my die sim heater cartridge. The heater cartridge is 40VDC 150watt 10.7ohms. That means with those power supplies in series I am getting approx 71watts of power to the die sim. I got the Cole Parmer Thermometer hooked up for water in and water out. It is a nice unit with very rapid pickup on the temp changes. If I turn my rad fan on it instantly picks up the changes. I have the CF633 unit taking temps from the die sim. The Die sim has a 10mm x 10mm die area (100mm sq.). It is currently only insulated by electrical tape. I have the HydroThruster500 plumbed in. I got a 120mm fan at 120Cfm on the rad. What to do: 1) Get a good DMM with voltage and amp readings. 2) Insulate die sim (probably make a whole new one actually). 3) Get a better flow meter. The one I got is ok but I would like a magnetic one. 4) Figure out how to take pressure measurements, buy the equipment and install it. 5) Get a better valve for adjusting flow. I got a standard gate valve now that actually works fine but I think a good needle valve would be better.

05-04-2005, 06:52 PM	#33
jaydee Put up or Shut Up Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 6,506	I think I am going to forget the automation aspect and just go with manual input data. I like the Cole Pamer thermometer enough to use it for all temp monitoring. I already have it reading water in and water out. I am going to make a new die sim slug that will incorporate a 3rd probe from it for die temp. Taking the measurments from one thermometer is probably better over all anyway. I am going to replace the HydroThruster500 with another one. I am not to happy with the impellor seizing up at 32C. I will probably get a Little Giant 2 MDQ or similar. What to do? 1) Build new die sim. 2) Get new pump. 3) Get new radiator. 4) Get some soft silicone hose. 5) Get a pressure guage of some kind. 6) Replumb System with new parts. 7) Find a decent DMM. After that I should be pretty set to start doing reviews if I decide to.

08-07-2005, 09:44 PM	#38
jaydee Put up or Shut Up Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 6,506	I had a lot of free time this weekend so I decided to re-plumb the test bench and get the rad hooked to the ComAir Rotron. I added a couple cheap pressure gauges that will not be used. They are just place holders for either a couple digital one's or a differential manometer. I got a Probe on the inlet of the radiator (fan is pulling air through), a probe at water in, and a probe on the die sim. That will be enough for water block testing. I just got the last parts sealed up so I am going to wait until later, probably a day or two, to do a test run. Also that big black thing right after the flow meter is a cleanable in-line filter.

08-08-2005, 06:41 PM	#39
plywood99 Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cincinnati, ohio Posts: 39	Jaydee, your setup is looking better all the time. When will you be back to testing blocks? And have you compared Swifty 6000 series to any of your blocks. How do they compare?? Reason for asking is I'm currently looking into making a small run of blocks myself and was looking for a point of reference, aka the swifty block. Also would you be willing to test my block when it is done? Thanks in advance...

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