Advice for Newcomer

[Boli]

I think this is in the correct place

OK, I want to go to water cooling as my Athlon 2000+ XP runs at 55-57oC (62oC full load) which I think is quite unacceptable, and I have a few questions and I would appreciate some help on some of the more biased or unclear aspects of it. I don’t intend to cool anything else, as I don’t think anything else needs it

Do most pumps come with a main’s connection? I intend to rig it onto my power-out connection on my PSU. (This should turn on the pump first, and at the worst start at the same time).

As I only intend to cool my CPU what is the best sort of block to get for an Athlon chip?
(I would prefer it copper in colour since everything else in my case seems to have copper heat sinks it would match nicely)

My case (Lian Li PC-70):



I was wondering about suggestions about how to mount it all in the space specified i.e. the best arrangement, what should come first; should one thing be higher than the others?
I don’t want to drill holes in the case but the back plate is removable so maybe I can do something with that. I would like everything if at all possible to be inside the case, maybe using the space for dual 80mm fans on the back plate to cool a radiator, but then most of the radiators seem to be a single 120mm fan I can’t seem to find one that will fit…

My budget is about £250 I recon and I would like some good advice on how to go about it. Should I but one of those kits or go for part separately and what item should I spend the most money on? Also is my 350W PSU going to handle it or should I think of upgrading that?


~Boli

[Boli]

Th PSU mounting plate

[Sproket]

Look at Dtekcustoms.com Rad. I have one and works nicely.
If you want dual 120mm fans on it then look at jpiperformance.com dual rad. Look at there Gallery also.
I would not go buy a used one.
Also you could try a Auto parts store but you will have to mod it to put Barbs on it.

I have a Antec 300 psu works great for me.

I cut a square in my front case and stuck the Rad out a little and use one 120mm Panaflo fan, L1A.

I bought a Relay kit for my pump but actually I just run pump 24/7 and turn off pc whenever not using it. Pond Pumps are built to run 24/7

I have the Eheim 1048, very silent and produces little heat.

Use ClearFlex tubing, I like it much better than Tygon.

Can you provide a whole pic of your inside case?

[Sproket]

Heres a pic of mine

http://www.chadandjodi.com/watercool/newwater.jpg

[Boli]

I can't provide a pic of my entire case... I got that off a
site as I don't have a digital camera.

Thanks for the advice about the PSU I wasn't sure

[Boli]

What does everyone think of this?... I;m not sure about what everything means but if I get this and a second radiator of the same type would this be a good idea?

http://www.bestbyte.net/Product.cfm?...ID=18&Keyword=

[sn_85]

well i dont really like Swiftech but its an okay idea if you dont want to cut things and want to fit two rads up in the back. but i dont like swiftechs cuz ppl been complaining about the pump dying out after a couple of days/weeks. and that kit is overpriced. just buy 2 Black Ice Micro's separately in parallel and an eheim and a Dtek TC-4 3/8" and a rez if u want and it'd be cheaper and better then that kit. the MCW5000A is a good waterblock and has the clips if you dont have holes but the mouting hole method is better.

[Boli]

inside my comp. (Thought I uploaded it before)

[Boli]

After a few quick mesurements I found that two Black ice radiators will fit next two each other and connected with two fans each will fit in the space above the PSU (shown earlier)

*crosses fingers*

Is is better to connect them in parallel or series?

This is the projected setup at the moment. (see picy below)
The red is the stuff in the case at the minute, and I don't fancy moving it around much.
The black/white are the projected posiition for the radiators/fans

The next idea is to find a pump using 3/4 pipes and reserviour/airtrap that will fit above the DVD-ROM.
I am searching for HOW it can all fit in the case now without restricing the already present airflow too much.

(Although it this goes ahead as it stands I will have 6+1 extract fans and only two intake fans... is this wise?)

Any suggestions?

[Boli]

OK... looked around a bit more found a few other items:

1x Innovatek Tank-O-Matic
1x Eheim 1048 Pump
1x DangerDen Maze3

Arrangement as it stands now... the long black tube on the bottom left is the reservoiur/airtrap and the other new oblong is the pump.

The only problem I see now is my reserviour is Al, the radiator is Cu the pump is... unknown internal but Al fastenings the water block is Cu.

Does anything stand out as "wrong". I won't be doing anything for at LEAST a month most likely longer but I want to know I am planning it right. at least

Any Thoughts

~Boli

[MadDogMe]

I don't like your choices so far!!...


You don't need a reservoir at all, they make filling/bleeding air out easier that's all. To fill use a T fitting (13mm copper are least restrictive, PVC ones are very restrictive) at the highest point and cap it with a bung or a valve,if long enough this makes an excellent airtrap as well for catching/bleeding air out of the loop. To make life even easier put one at the bottom for emptying the loop out, then fill it throught the low point while the top one is open and you should have very little air left in the loop...

I would'nt recomend a black ice to anyone either!. Use a copper/brass car heater core if you can find one localy, if not it's worth ordering one from D-tek in the states, by the time you're ready they should have their version of the White Water CPU block which will whip a maze3 all the way, every way!. I own a maze3 and am not keen on it, you can buy it if you want! (I have a copper HC as well with a 19CMx18CM fin area if you can't find one). If I were you I'd get it all from D-Tek though...

The best place to mount the rad is at the top above the CPU, if you have a pump failure it will curculate by convection and prevent CPU meltdown!. It's saved me quite a few times, takes 10~15mins of loaded CPU usage to reach 45DegC (my warning temp). Either fit it where you said avove the PSU (if it will fit) or mount in onto the 'roof' of the case, this means cutting a 'blowhole' but is worth it as it will give excellent airflow through the case with a well placed fan blowing in through the bottom front pannel...

To recap I'd go:

1X D-Tek heatercore
1X D-Tek White Water
1X Ehiem 1048 or 1250
1X 6foot of Clearflex or silicone tubing 13mm inner diametre
2X 13mm inner Cu(copper) T fittings for fill&bleed points
2X bungs or valves for bleed/fill points
2X 120mm fans for radiator and case inlet (run at 5~7volts)
?!X Zip ties for silicone or 'fuel clamps' for clearflex (NOT jubilee/grub~screw type!)
1X Y fitting for White Water outlets 2into1 conversion (get oversize, they're inherantly restrictive!)

That's all I can think of for the time being :shrug: ...

[Boli]

I would love to use HALF the stuff on the 'net but I like in the UK and I don't any international credit cards so I am stuck with what the UK stores have to offer.

The black Ice is a serious thought as I want either a compact dual 80mm fan (i.e. one that will fit in the space) or two single 80mm fan tricks (i.e. black ice is the best bet ATM) with running four fans through them I should be able to conteract the "inefictivness" of them even if they are all running on 7v to keep the noise down; as I said though not much choice.

No reserviour then.... hmmm I shoul be able to rig something out of tubing them that will make things easier (and cheaper).

hmmm food for thought

~Boli

[airspirit]

If this is your first time, please install a res/airtrap. It will make your life much MUCH easier, since invariably you will be rearranging things a few times before you're satisfied.

As far as arrangement goes, try this:

res->pump->CPU->rad->res

The reason is that if the pump is located right next to the res you will have an ample supply of water for it to pump and it can help prevent hose collapse (it happened to me and is NOT pretty). You also want the more turbulent water from the pump to hit your waterblock rather than being routed through the radiator first.

[Sproket]

Look at your case you dont need that crap at the bottom right, that cage. Rip that OUT. You can put your Rad there or above your PSU as stated OR even cut or better yet get a dual Rad and cut 2 holes at the top pf your case and mount rad Horizontal. Then you could have fans everywhere.

Dtek does DHL worldwide shipping!!!!!!!!

Also get DOUBLE amount of tubing so you have some for later. You will probably need it. I did.

The Dremel Drill/saw is your friend.

[Sproket]

did you goto jpiperformance.com and look at there Gallery????

[Boli]

I had a look at there stuff but I can;t actually buy anything from them so I just looked.

Incidentally I need the stuff at the bototm right I am going to mount another HD there soon, I am keeping the top clear for the cooling.

[Sproket]

No, just look at the Gallery of jpiperformance and get some ideas.

They have some well designed system's there.

[MadDogMe]

I'm sure there are ways of ordering international goods without a creditcard, bank transfer?, Paypal?. Try emailing D-Tek with a query about payment...

Airspirit, I thought poor/cheap hose caused tube collapse...

PS. You could fit a full size heatercore at the front bottom where that cage 'thing' is at the moment without draticly cutting up your case...

[Boli]

OK placed the order in... things should arrive on wednesday I can't really go wrong with them. (I hope)

I know half of you will cringe at my choices, so I won't put them up untill I get them and starting playing with them. I'll write a mini article surrounding this so then you can jeer at me but now I have to go and serach for a job, something I was going to do in couple of months but I fored my own hand.

~Boli

Thanks for the help.

[sn_85]

you shouldn't be worried about what we say about ur system. i dont think anyone(well most) on this forum says things negative about anyones watercooling system. what they have to say is usually constructive criticism on how to make it better. whatever you decided on it was probably based on your own interest and your own needs, which would be the right decision.

but ill be waiting to know what u got

[tippey]

Hi Boli m8 I would have suggested the 80mm thermochill rads as an alternative but looks like you already made your choice
I see no problems with your choices, it should make for a nice cool system

Anyway since you are mixing metals in your system don't forget an anti corrosion additive like water wetter, purple ice, innovaprotect etc

[Boli]

I found the thermochill rads also but Blackide was about £5 cheaper. with me running four 80mm fans through both of them though the differnce between them would be pratically nothing if the thermochill works better

Shame the only mixing I am doing is on the pump so maybe I can find some copper brass connectors instead.

[tippey]

so I guess your not running a res with this system.
plastic screw in barbs should fit the pump I run an
ehiem 1250 myself

[Sproket]

Boli-

I find a setup similiar to mine is all you need. Having the T connector is key b/c you can add anything to your system without having to rip it apart.

Having a Res sometimes causes more problem than its worth if your putting ALL watercooling parts into computer.

Air bubbles are a concern in res. Also another place for leakage.

Wish you luck on your first setup, its is fun, and it only gets better when you do it a couple of times.

I myself rebuilt my system a second time b/c of Tygon having issues with my UV dye.
But I used the same tubing layout as in my pic.
That layout works well for me.

Also mounting the block is one very important step. Make sure you mount block well.
I like to have the pump outlet go straight to the block for maxium pressure.

Keep us posted and we are here to offer help.

Sproket

[Boli]

OK... got everything and set it up. ...

Well that's the good things about it... the bad is when I setting up the maze of wiring from my many fans I neglected to notice that a wire had got trapped and managed to short my entire system out ... Do'h!

The Damage: one completely whipped mobo BIOS.

(At least that is the best guess I can put on things, I have tested every other aspect of the system elsewhere and found they all work but I can’t check the RAM, the mobo still powers everything but does NOTHING, doesn’t even beep when I don’t attach a CPU or Graphics card). It was reading temperatures at crazy number though.

When I did get things running and before I installed the rest of my fans I had it chugging away quite happily at 40oC full load, which was a VAST improvement (65oC --> 40oC).


The system:

The Heat Exchanger

Two micro Black ICE radiators wired in parallel using two 2x3/8” --> 1x1/2” ‘Y’ splitters, I worked out the area and 2x 3/8” is almost exactly the same area as 1x1/2” so no flow constriction
Each Radiator has 2x80mm fans fitted on each side and they are attached into my two spare fan openings at the back of my case… thankfully everything fits. These fans should cool the water in the radiators well. Those four fans plus the two on the back of my case already are all attached to a fan controller so I can switch them to 5v and reduce the noise (which is considerable) to almost nothing. Since each radiator has two fans then there should be still a considerable cooling effect with them.

The pump:

At first I thought it wasn’t working, it wasn’t pulling in the water… but after a quick think, I realised that it doesn’t “suck air” and you have to put water in there to get any amount of pressure… a potentially embarrassing situation with the returns office was avoided.
The fittings to the piping though are abysmal and there is water leakage, I will have to find wire ties to fit them in more securely, but it purrs away quite happily at the moment in the bottom of my case in a small Tupperware dish , the leakage isn’t enough to worry about too much a drop every hour is just enough to make the pump damp, but I’ll sort THAT out before I put the sides back on.

The reservoir:

I got a Criticool WaterPlant Reservoir CP310, http://www.pclincs.co.uk/acatalog/waterplant.jpg which I am quite chuffed with. It is a tube with four openings on and you can set the inlets/outlets any way you want and the stoppers also, as it stands I have the water coming in through the top and out the bottom; the second opening at the top I can interchange with a stopper or an opening to attach a filler pipe. The only problem I found with this is when I first set it up the water poured in the top and into the liquid below at such a force my liquid foamed… so a quick fix with a tube running down so it pours directly INTO the water and things are running a lot better (a lot quieter as well)

The Water Block

The Dangerden 3 worked fine even if it took me a bit to work out how to put it together without instrcuctions.

So now I have a good cooling system set up with a case running 10 80mm fans, which to a bit of technical wizardry from yours truly runs a lower voltages and the case is pretty damn quiet… the loudest part is the hard drives Though I can’t use it cause I fried my mobo I can’t use my old mobo in it because it has no mounting holes among other things, so I am stuck on 1.2 gig 128MB SDRAM of which I need at LEAST 180MB to run smoothly… so I’m in the virtual mem and things are running slow … a couple of weeks and I should be able to get a new mobo and see how my cooling works out properly.

An almost successful water cooling experiment.

~ Boli

Would do pictures but I’m afraid things may crash if I try to open Photoshop.