yet another new idea, sorry

[pokpok]

wow!

is that for real? from dangerden?

[jaydee]

Originally posted by pokpok
wow!

is that for real? from dangerden?

Yes.

[GTA]

when did they release that?
where did you get that picture from?

[MadDogMe]

I was going to sugest putting a slit across the middle in my last post but thought the centre 'circle' was too small to warrant it...

I was'nt being derogatory with the WW killer comment, I really do like this block, very inovative and think it'll perform well (better than Maze3 and probly better than the 4, yours is better detailed). It's a shame about DD's timing though, is'nt that always the way though? :shrug: ...

I'd be interested in a block with 12mm inner diametre barbs made from some copper pipe, are the ones on there threaded or epoxied into the polytop?...

[GTA]

I'm properly pi$$ed about that block from DD, basically, it seems to me like they've copied my idea, implemented it very poorly, and are going to flog it off as their own work.

You can see in some of the diagrams I posted early in the thread that my block originally did have a groove through the middle, but I found that it wasn't actually needed in the end.

@MadDogMe, the barbs are just balanced on there in the pic, in the test block, they will be soldered onto a fourth plate, in the real thing, i'll be using 3/8BSP barbs, with a 10mm internal bore, screwed into the top plate.


By the way, does it look to you guys like DD have stolen my idea? or do you think its just a conincidence that we've both come up with the same design independantly?

On a side note, they havn't got enough grooves, the grooves they have got are too far apart, and the barbs are too far apart as well.

[King Richard]

Originally posted by GTA
Yes, this block is going into production, even if it is a limited run where I lose money on each and every block.

I've always wanted to produce and sell a block to other people, its a dream of mine, sad as it may seem, and I'm prepared to pay for that dream to become reality.

I take it you are the same king Richard from OcUK, and if you want to post this there, go for it, and if you want to buy or test this block, just ask, and I'll send it to you.

As posted before, this is not a WW killer, but at a guess, within 3 degrees is not a target too high to aim for. This means it should beat a Maze3 by a couple of degrees.

This all remains to be seem though, this prototype is NOT complete by any means, but its close, and the results should be reasonable.

let me know, gta@digital-explosion.co.uk, or find me on the forums at the same page.

if it performs well enough, i don't think you'll lose money (although obviously you wont know how well it'll sell til you try, unfortunately) and even if its only on a par with a maze 3, thats still pretty good from something thats nice and compact and looks relatively cheap to make (since its lathed, rather than all machined)

yep, i'm the same bloke, thought i'd use the same name here so people know who i am (same name on OcAU too )
unfortunately i wont have time to test it at the mo cos i've got university exams going on next month, but if you still want it tested in about a months time, i'd be happy to (though i'd expect you would have tested it yourself by then, and maybe have made some more. i'm sure i'd be interested in getting hold of one of the final blocks )

one other thing i thought of, are you going to put holes in the top for athlon-64 mountings as well, or does that complicate things? just thought it'd add some future-proofing to the design

[King Richard]

Originally posted by GTA
I'm properly pi$$ed about that block from DD, basically, it seems to me like they've copied my idea, implemented it very poorly, and are going to flog it off as their own work.

You can see in some of the diagrams I posted early in the thread that my block originally did have a groove through the middle, but I found that it wasn't actually needed in the end.

@MadDogMe, the barbs are just balanced on there in the pic, in the test block, they will be soldered onto a fourth plate, in the real thing, i'll be using 3/8BSP barbs, with a 10mm internal bore, screwed into the top plate.


By the way, does it look to you guys like DD have stolen my idea? or do you think its just a conincidence that we've both come up with the same design independantly?

On a side note, they havn't got enough grooves, the grooves they have got are too far apart, and the barbs are too far apart as well.

i'd say its more likely that its just a coincidence with the DD design, not much you could do about it though even if they had nicked it, since i guess your design isn't copy-righted or anything just the way it goes really, i wouldn't worry about it, its not as though they're identical (yours might even work better )

[jaydee]

No, they didn't steal the design. They have been working on it for a lot longer than this thread has existed. The one in the picture is months old and just a prototype. The retail version I hear is modified quiet a bit from that.

[GTA]

Either way, I havn't been more angry than this in a long time.

I can't believe that I put so much effort into this design, and its just been ripped by DD.

Depresssing is not the word for it.

[bigben2k]

FWIW...

I think that this Maze4 is a natural progression on the Maze3: I wouldn't beat myself up over it. We've been waiting for something new from DD for a very long time.

[King Richard]

Originally posted by GTA
Either way, I havn't been more angry than this in a long time.

I can't believe that I put so much effort into this design, and its just been ripped by DD.

Depresssing is not the word for it.

i really don't think they copied it, companies work on things for a long time before bringing out new stuff, its just a coincidence that it looks similar to yours, i don't think its anything you should be too worried about really

[GTA]

Well, no-ones gonna buy my block when DD have one almost exactly the same are they

Nah, you're probably right, they didn't steal it, but its the worst possible thing that could have happened, a company, probably the most respected in the whole watercooling world, has a block almost identical to mine, and there's nothing I can do to compete.

[King Richard]

Originally posted by GTA
Well, no-ones gonna buy my block when DD have one almost exactly the same are they

Nah, you're probably right, they didn't steal it, but its the worst possible thing that could have happened, a company, probably the most respected in the whole watercooling world, has a block almost identical to mine, and there's nothing I can do to compete.

depends how much yours costs i guess, i seem to remember you estimated a price of around 25-30 quid? still looking at about the same price? cos the maze 4 is probably going to be 40-45, like most commercial blocks. people will buy yours if you stick to that sort of price range i'm sure, so i don't think its any reason to give up on the block otherwise i guess you could try and think of ways of moddifying the design slightly so that it looks less similar to the DD one

[Skulemate]

Originally posted by GTA
... a company, probably the most respected in the whole watercooling world, ...

I don't know about that... it was Swiftech after all that hired Bill... and D-TEK that purchased the rights to the White Water... seems to me that gives both of those two have a head start on Danger Den...

[jaydee]

Originally posted by Skulemate
I don't know about that... it was Swiftech after all that hired Bill... and D-TEK that purchased the rights to the White Water... seems to me that gives both of those two have a head start on Danger Den...

Danger Den has been around longer and is more well know to the newbs and their stuff is less expensive. I try to get people to buy from DTek almost everyday on the forums I browse and they usually end up buying a DD block because their friend recommended it and it is cheaper.

[Skulemate]

I don't think it's fair to say they're the most respected water vendor just because all the noobs buy there. I do know what you mean though... whenever a "what's the most l337 block?" thread pops up at Overclockers the Maze 3 always gets high praise... sometimes it even comes "within a degree or two" of the White Water.

[jaydee]

Originally posted by Skulemate
I don't think it's fair to say they're the most respected water vendor just because all the noobs buy there. I do know what you mean though... whenever a "what's the most l337 block?" thread pops up at Overclockers the Maze 3 always gets high praise... sometimes it even comes "within a degree or two" of the White Water.

Don't completely disagree with any of that, except DD was one of the first and still one of the best, and continues to innovate. They deserve a level of respect. At least IMO. I personal think Dtek is the best though. Best blocks period! They got number 1, 2, and 3 IMO.

[jaydee]

Here is the production version.

[MadDogMe]

They've used a mill to make that block (and the NB/GPU block) so you could cut the cost(and time?) by using a lathe could'nt you...

Don't give up on your block, they are'nt the same really, just simular. Performance is based on surface area, baseplate thickness, ect. Not looks...

[GTA]

Comparing their block to mine...

1. They have 4 grooves, I have 6/7 if you include the middle hole
2. Their grooves are wider than mine
3. Their block is oval, not circular
4. Their grooves look VERY shallow, which is very odd, I worked out a depth of 5mm would probably be best in this sort of design.
5. It looks like the base on the block is fairly thick, I still think they could shoot for something like 1.5-2mm, I'm going for 0.8-1.2 on mine.
7. Their grooves don't continue to under the inlet and outlet... thats quite interesting. I don't know if thats a good or bad thing, I'll thinkabout it.

Well, if their Maze4 beats their Maze3, then mine should beat both quite handily, and hopefully not cost an awfull lot more to make, there might be life left in my design yet.

[GTA]

And I say respected not on the ground that n00bs buy them, or that they're particularly high performance, but that they have a very good reputation for reliabilty, and there are very few things to fault in their blocks. They make cheap, decent performance blocks, and as a company, they seem freindly and customer orientated.

For example, they did have a slight issue with the clear tops on the Maze3 when they first came out. They fixed the problem, but also replaced many blocks, free of charge, that had had problems. To me, thats the mark of a respectable company.

I know what you mean though, there are many ways to measure respectability, but to me, they do very good work.

( I'm less pissed off now, after some sleep, was a long week at work )

[MadDogMe]

It's purely numbers with DD IMO. SO MANY people brought them because it was them or Swiftech (I did), availability plays a big part as well. They are 'respected by numbers' not by performance ...

[GTA]

Well, I've tested it, and results were impressive, beating a Maze3 by 3-4 degrees.

Of course, and as I'm sure someone will leap in a point out, my testing cannot be relied upon, too many discrepancies etc. etc.

Either way, its looking good, and I'm going to find some way to get it tested properly after I make a few modifiactions.

The only problem is, its a HARSH flow killer, in its current form at least. The middle plate, with the slits, either needs to be eliminated, or modified. I know that flow isn't that important in some cases, and as Cathar rightly points out, worrying about flow restriction may be holding back waterblock design.

However, I use my watercooling on all the other hot parts in my system, and I need to save SOME flow for the other 4 blocks I use, so I'm going to sort it out somehow.

In either case, I feel that the basic concept of the block has been proved, and proved to work well, but it needs refining slightly in order to make it possible to sell, and more suitable for the average user.

I'll keep you posted, but for now, its back to the drawing board.

[jaydee]

What if you just made a slit where the barbs are except in the base itself instead of the middle plate. Would drop costs a bit if it worked.

[Althornin]

the slit exists for one reason (on your design):
To spread the flow of water to all the channels as evenly as possible.
Its not there for impingment, is it? Because if it is, its not over the core. I'd like to see how it works with NO middle plate at all.