MicroPin Block w/ pics, specs

YiorgosX · 07-08-2003, 04:43 PM

It all started when I found this site:
http://www.emachineshop.com/

So, using their s/w here is what I came up with

http://www.geocities.com/yiorgosx/Wa...Block_Base.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/yiorgosx/Wa...ock_Base_1.jpg

What do you think?

Joe · 07-08-2003, 04:46 PM

Umm nice geocities page, but I dont see any block there, just the nice Page not available deal

if the images are uner 75k you can upload them one per post in the forums.

jaydee · 07-08-2003, 05:00 PM

I managed to get it to show. It's been done. Volinti has a version, I have a couple versions, Swiftech has a version, Koolance has a version, #Rotor has a version, ect...

jaydee · 07-08-2003, 05:11 PM

Here is one of his pics.

sevisehda · 07-08-2003, 06:13 PM

What di you get as a quote for that? Just to test it out I made a 1.5/2.5in chuck on CU and the quote was for over 80$. IT said it required oiver 300 machines. I think there was an error in such a simple piece. I also got a very limited selection of materials, nothing over an 1/8 of an inch for Cu or PolyCarb.

mrmoustache · 07-08-2003, 07:14 PM

i made a 2x3in block of copper and it required over 400 machines, cost $80 and had a 1 month wait for them to make it.

#Rotor · 07-08-2003, 07:51 PM

oooo goooody... lets see how realistic they are with there quotes...

nice block, try to make the pins concave-square, much better for turbulence and surface aria\volume ratio

sevisehda · 07-08-2003, 07:59 PM

I think this place only does work on sheet material. In everything I've read they only meantion sheet machining and the default machine is a CNC punch. Materials are listed at many thicknesses but are never available. I'm somewhat disapointed because when I first saw this I got pretty excited.

sevisehda · 07-08-2003, 08:13 PM

When I first saw this I thought it would be a nice option. The site mentioned automation and other nice things. But after playing with the prgram and getting a quote of 80$ for a 3x3x0.188in piece of Cu I had some doubts. Then I realized they only did sheet materials. So I thought maybe the plain pice of material caused some error in the quote routine. So I added some punched 1/2 holes to it. For a 1.5x1.5x0.188in Cu plate with 4 0.5in holes it would cost $82.94 take a month to make on 394 machines.

Seriously I think this shop is run by little gnomes. When an order is placed 394 of them will run out and start making it with stone age chisles and hammers.

nOv1c3 · 07-08-2003, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Joe
Umm nice geocities page, but I dont see any block there, just the nice Page not available deal

if the images are uner 75k you can upload them one per post in the forums.

Easy to get them to show once you load the page just put a space at the end of the URL and hit enter

YiorgosX · 07-09-2003, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jaydee116
I managed to get it to show. It's been done. Volinti has a version, I have a couple versions, Swiftech has a version, Koolance has a version, #Rotor has a version, ect...

Jaydee you can now add my name to your -long-list, but this was not my intention.

Originality is an important issue, but isn't the issue here about improving known designs? What about the specs ? Should base plate be thinner or thicker? What is the performance of the blocks you have? Do you have any ideas on making the block more efficient? After all the way I see it, almost everyone is trying the 'Cathar approach', creating versions or WW or Cascade, which I actually did myself.

Quote:

nice block, try to make the pins concave-square, much better for turbulence and surface aria\volume ratio

What exactly do you mean by that #Rotor? My English is not that good ...

Haven't yet sent those guys the design to know a quote, since I'm not sure about final specs.

Sorry for the troubles with geocities. I knew that they weren't the best site, but didn't know that they were crap..

jaydee · 07-09-2003, 02:52 PM

These are my current one's I have pics of:
Rev. 4

----
Rev. 3

----
Rev. 2

----
Lemon Block

The pin concept is sound and it simply works. But if you want the best performance then go with a "Cascade" style block. There isn't a Pin style block that will compete with it nor can one be made unless the inpingment of the Cascade is included, but then the pins would be pretty useless.

My Rev. 4 and now my Rev. 5 is as efficent as I can make the Pin concept. I have a DD Maze 4 coming so once I get it and test it and test my blocks against it it will give an idea how good my Pin style blocks are. I am expecting White Water performance, but will settle for kicking the Maze 4's ass.

Now for your design I would say make the pins round or at least diamond shaped. Make the pins 3 times as high as the thickness of the base (after all milling is done). Duel outlets, not a huge gain but it is very evident in my Lemon Block and Rev. 2-5 designs. Base thickness should be around 1.5mm. Don't go much less or the block might collapse for lack of support.

After it is perfected expect about the same results as a TC-4. Might get close to a White Water, but nothing near Cascade performance.

Boli · 07-09-2003, 03:14 PM

Where are the mounting springs on your "pinned" water block?

After the amount of trouble I had seating my maze 3 square and that HAD springs I don't thinnk I would want to make it even more dificult.

jaydee · 07-09-2003, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Boli
Where are the mounting springs on your "pinned" water block?

After the amount of trouble I had seating my maze 3 square and that HAD springs I don't thinnk I would want to make it even more dificult.

I don't use them. I have no troubles at all mounting blocks. Of course I mount/un-mount/re-mount 20 times a week.... You get use to it after a while. I get a perfect imprint nearly every time.

#Rotor · 07-09-2003, 10:42 PM

Quote:

What exactly do you mean by that #Rotor? My English is not that good ...

What I meant was, the shape of the pin.... make the sides concave as compared to flat. it lengthens the side, and reduces the volume of the pin slightly, each corner of the pin is now also much more prone to induce even more turbulence as a result of the curved side.

YiorgosX · 07-10-2003, 03:07 AM

Quote:

Now for your design I would say make the pins round or at least diamond shaped. Make the pins 3 times as high as the thickness of the base (after all milling is done). Duel outlets, not a huge gain but it is very evident in my Lemon Block and Rev. 2-5 designs. Base thickness should be around 1.5mm. Don't go much less or the block might collapse for lack of support.

Quote:

What I meant was, the shape of the pin.... make the sides concave as compared to flat. it lengthens the side, and reduces the volume of the pin slightly, each corner of the pin is now also much more prone to induce even more turbulence as a result of the curved side.

Thanks for the info guys. I'll work it a little and post another design

ChrioN · 07-10-2003, 06:41 AM

interesting site...new thinking

YiorgosX · 07-16-2003, 04:51 PM

ok, here's the latest revision of the block.
New specs are:

Base plate thickness is 1mm, pins are 4mm long.

Pins are what's left if drilling with 2.2mm bit, at 2mm spacing.
Mid plate holes are directed to the middle of the virtual square between pins.

YiorgosX · 07-16-2003, 04:54 PM

It seems that I can't make it with pictures...

YiorgosX · 07-16-2003, 04:55 PM

Mid plate

YiorgosX · 07-16-2003, 04:56 PM

Top plate

bigben2k · 07-16-2003, 05:00 PM

This design doesn't warrant a 1 mm baseplate. You ought to start with 3mm, and see if making it thinner improves performance. I'd even consider starting out at 4mm, and working my way down, in 0.25mm increments.

YiorgosX · 07-16-2003, 05:05 PM

You mean that it won't hold the mounting pressure?

jaydee · 07-16-2003, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by YiorgosX
You mean that it won't hold the mounting pressure?

No, 1mm is to thin for that large area. 3mm-4mm is a good start point. That will assist the heat to spread a little better to all those pins.

07-08-2003, 04:43 PM	#1
YiorgosX Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Greece Posts: 11	MicroPin Block w/ pics, specs It all started when I found this site: http://www.emachineshop.com/ So, using their s/w here is what I came up with http://www.geocities.com/yiorgosx/Wa...Block_Base.jpg http://www.geocities.com/yiorgosx/Wa...ock_Base_1.jpg What do you think?

07-08-2003, 04:46 PM	#2
Joe The Pro/Life Support System Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 4,041	Umm nice geocities page, but I dont see any block there, just the nice Page not available deal if the images are uner 75k you can upload them one per post in the forums. __________________ Joe - I only take this hat off for one thing... ProCooling archive curator and dusty skeleton.

07-08-2003, 07:51 PM	#7
#Rotor Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dione, sector 4s1256 Posts: 852	oooo goooody... lets see how realistic they are with there quotes... nice block, try to make the pins concave-square, much better for turbulence and surface aria\volume ratio __________________ There is no Spoon....

07-16-2003, 04:51 PM	#18
YiorgosX Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Greece Posts: 11	ok, here's the latest revision of the block. New specs are: Base plate thickness is 1mm, pins are 4mm long. Pins are what's left if drilling with 2.2mm bit, at 2mm spacing. Mid plate holes are directed to the middle of the virtual square between pins. Last edited by YiorgosX; 07-16-2003 at 04:58 PM.

07-16-2003, 05:00 PM	#22
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	This design doesn't warrant a 1 mm baseplate. You ought to start with 3mm, and see if making it thinner improves performance. I'd even consider starting out at 4mm, and working my way down, in 0.25mm increments. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

07-08-2003, 05:00 PM	#3
jaydee Put up or Shut Up Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 6,506	I managed to get it to show. It's been done. Volinti has a version, I have a couple versions, Swiftech has a version, Koolance has a version, #Rotor has a version, ect...

07-08-2003, 06:13 PM	#5
sevisehda Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2003 Location: NY Posts: 234	What di you get as a quote for that? Just to test it out I made a 1.5/2.5in chuck on CU and the quote was for over 80$. IT said it required oiver 300 machines. I think there was an error in such a simple piece. I also got a very limited selection of materials, nothing over an 1/8 of an inch for Cu or PolyCarb.

07-08-2003, 07:14 PM	#6
mrmoustache Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: columbus, ohio Posts: 44	i made a 2x3in block of copper and it required over 400 machines, cost $80 and had a 1 month wait for them to make it.

07-08-2003, 07:59 PM	#8
sevisehda Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2003 Location: NY Posts: 234	I think this place only does work on sheet material. In everything I've read they only meantion sheet machining and the default machine is a CNC punch. Materials are listed at many thicknesses but are never available. I'm somewhat disapointed because when I first saw this I got pretty excited.

07-08-2003, 08:13 PM	#9
sevisehda Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2003 Location: NY Posts: 234	When I first saw this I thought it would be a nice option. The site mentioned automation and other nice things. But after playing with the prgram and getting a quote of 80$ for a 3x3x0.188in piece of Cu I had some doubts. Then I realized they only did sheet materials. So I thought maybe the plain pice of material caused some error in the quote routine. So I added some punched 1/2 holes to it. For a 1.5x1.5x0.188in Cu plate with 4 0.5in holes it would cost $82.94 take a month to make on 394 machines. Seriously I think this shop is run by little gnomes. When an order is placed 394 of them will run out and start making it with stone age chisles and hammers.

07-09-2003, 02:52 PM	#12
jaydee Put up or Shut Up Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 6,506	These are my current one's I have pics of: Rev. 4 ---- Rev. 3 ---- Rev. 2 ---- Lemon Block The pin concept is sound and it simply works. But if you want the best performance then go with a "Cascade" style block. There isn't a Pin style block that will compete with it nor can one be made unless the inpingment of the Cascade is included, but then the pins would be pretty useless. My Rev. 4 and now my Rev. 5 is as efficent as I can make the Pin concept. I have a DD Maze 4 coming so once I get it and test it and test my blocks against it it will give an idea how good my Pin style blocks are. I am expecting White Water performance, but will settle for kicking the Maze 4's ass. Now for your design I would say make the pins round or at least diamond shaped. Make the pins 3 times as high as the thickness of the base (after all milling is done). Duel outlets, not a huge gain but it is very evident in my Lemon Block and Rev. 2-5 designs. Base thickness should be around 1.5mm. Don't go much less or the block might collapse for lack of support. After it is perfected expect about the same results as a TC-4. Might get close to a White Water, but nothing near Cascade performance.

07-09-2003, 03:14 PM	#13
Boli Cooling Savant Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Blackburn / Dundee Posts: 451	Where are the mounting springs on your "pinned" water block? After the amount of trouble I had seating my maze 3 square and that HAD springs I don't thinnk I would want to make it even more dificult.

07-10-2003, 06:41 AM	#17
ChrioN Cooling Savant Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Sweden Posts: 318	interesting site...new thinking

07-16-2003, 05:05 PM	#23
YiorgosX Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Greece Posts: 11	You mean that it won't hold the mounting pressure?

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