New File Server

[rickmann08]

Okay. I still love my little Snap 2200 but over the past few months it is really giving me issues. It was crashing for a while and then I plugged it in to a new battery backup and the problem went away. Now lately it has been crashing again. I got Spinrite but unfortunately I haven't a clue on how I get it to check the server.

If anyone can tell me...THANKS!

Other than that I feel I may have to buy another file server on a tight budget. I was hoping someone on the forums could point me in the right direction on what I is could file server these days.... once again on a budget so I may have to buy used.

Currently the 2200 I have has 2, 500 gig drives. One is the data and the other is the mirror so I will defiantly need something in that size or larger. I also work directly from the server on my Mac Pro running osx 6.8 or my PC so I need something that is reliable to work directly from.

If anyone can help me out I would greatly appreciate it. Either help me with the Spinrite or recommend a good used file server.

Thanks!
Rick

[Phoenix32]

Okay, here is my 2 cents on both your questions...

1) Spinrite cannot be run on the 2200 itself. You need to pull the drives and run the spinrite on them attached to a PC. Hint: DO NOT boot the drives on a widows system (or any other operating system for that matter). Just connect them to the PC you are going to use and boot the spinrite, test them, then pull them. PERIOD! If you boot the PC with an OS (other than the quasi-OS spinrite uses), you will blow your drives "special" partiion(s).

2) Without more information, it is very very hard to tell, but my gut tells me you are having power supply problems. This is a common problem for those units. The power supply is probably getting old and now failing, even more so because of the heavier power draw drives installed.

3) I still say go with a Snap unit, except this time, a Guardian OS (GOS) unit. Many of those units can be had for decent prices used.

4) I have a 4400 with 4 x 500 GB drives in it (used) that works well. I also have some other units. If interested, contact me via email at phoenix32x@hotmail.com or here in PM. Let me know what you want to spend, how much you need, and maybe we can come to something.

Hope one or all of those help...

[rickmann08]

Hey Phoenix, thanks for the info! So basically I just plug the drive in to my PC. Boot up the computer with Spinrite. Once its done. Shut down the computer and then repeat with the second drive and just make sure not to the let the PC boot up normally with the drives plugged in?

Thanks for the info on the Guardian OS. Let me see what are budget is and I will drop you a line.

Thanks!
Rick

[Phoenix32]

Yup, you pretty much got it...

[blue68f100]

I would unplug the pc HD before booting so only the snap drive is in. MS can sure mess up a snap HD in a heart beat. I'm in agreement with Andy on the PS. The 2200 PS was not design for more the 250gig HD's. 500's taxes it pretty heavy. If you running 24/7 with out shutting it down it's a little easier but still hard on them. Another thing to check is make sure the cooling fan is running.

The GOS in the only way to go.

[rickmann08]

Thanks Phoenix and Blue! I am going to try it shortly! I bought the 2200 from a guy who works on snaps. When I had these same issues a while back I contacted him. I remember that he said he changed out the fan for a higher "brick fan" or maybe he said "brick power supply" and did some other tweaks so that he good run 2 500 gig drives in it.

I mean I understand that this unit is old!!! I just want to see about getting just a little more life out of her.

[rickmann08]

What problems would I face is I just replaced the drives with 2 new drives?

I tried the spinrite but it is not even working! I am going to take the unit to a computer repair shop to see if it is the power supply.

When I restarted the machine it automatically went in and started checking the drives. I am assuming it is because I had the start up at:

Perform a thorough disk check operation: ALWAYS

and

Automatically Repair Errors CHECKED

[Phoenix32]

If you replaced with 2 new drives, there would be no software (OS) there... That and blow a significant part of your upgrade/replace budget.

huh? Spinrite is not working? The drives are not working? Or?

The problem on the power supplies is that they get old and start delivering "dirty" power and/or insufficient power.

If your area is anything like mine, I seriously doubt the local computer shop can test properly for what we are talking about, not to mention know anything about snaps, but it's your money...

[SaFeHeX]

Originally Posted by rickmann08

What problems would I face is I just replaced the drives with 2 new drives?

You would have to replace 1 drive at a time and allow the unit to copy over the OS to the first new drive. Then move that drive into position 1 and fit the second drive and repeat the above.

Back up all your data first if you can, to be on the safe side.

Originally Posted by rickmann08

I tried the spinrite but it is not even working! I am going to take the unit to a computer repair shop to see if it is the power supply.

I wouldn't trust a regular computer shop to try and diagnose the problem for the same reasons that Pheonix32 has pointed out.

Personally i beleive it would be a lot cheaper and more beneficial to buy (or borrow?) a new PSU first and try that.

As you have upgraded hard drives in it already, they may draw more power than the originals so buy a decent 60 watt PSU that should hande the drives better than the original PSU.

Something else that needs to be considered with non original drives in your unit. Hard drives require both 5 volt and 12 volt. The adapter brick supplies only 12 volt and the motherboard inside the Snap generates the 5V rail from the 12V input. If your hard drives inside the unit are very 5 volt hungry, compared to the originals, then it could be the the PSU stages of the main board inside the Snap, just can't deliver enough power to the 5V rail.

IF a new PSU brick of higher rating doesn't fix the problem and you do go down the route of changing hard drives, do some research on how much current the 5V rail of the new hard drives consume and get drives with the lowest current/power rating.

Do you know what make and model hard drives are inside it now? Some of the older Maxor DiamondMax 10 units were notorious for the amount of power they consume. The DiamondMax 9 series used a lot less power. Very little difference to look at physically but the power drain is about 2 fold difference.

[rickmann08]

Hi Safehex, thanks for the info!

Phoenix, sorry it was just a thought. I don't think I would buy 2 new drives.

Ok I got the spinrite to work off of my PC and I ran a level 2 on each drive with no problem (should I run a level 4)?

Also you are right. The local computer guy had no clue. When I called and said I had a Snap sever, he replied, "a snap what?"

Anyways he made a good point. Everyone keeps talking about the power supply. He said the only power supply was the cord that is plugged in with the power box in the middle. Is that the power supply that everyone keeps talking about that may be going out (sorry I am a design guy).

[Phoenix32]

I could be wrong, I am not an expert on the 2200, there should be filtering and such in the Snap also.

David?

[rickmann08]

Hi Phoenix, sorry not sure what you mean by filtering? Are you referring to a piece of hardware?

Ok I got the spinrite to work off of my PC and I ran a level 2 on each drive with no errors (should I run a level 4)? It says it will take 98 hours per drive!

[Phoenix32]

electronics on the main board for filtering the power coming in.

If it passed fine on level 2, they are probably fine...

[rickmann08]

ummmm yeah.... I have no clue on that one. When I opened the server up I didn't see any filters over the board or electronics.

So if spinrite didn't find any problems on a level 2 (decided to run a level 4 on one drive) then what could the problem be?

[Phoenix32]

I am apologizing up front. I got a small laugh from your reply. Sorry.

I am not talking about "air" filtering. I am talking electronic filtering. AC power suplies are made up of various types of 1) Rectification, and 2) Power filtering. It can also include thingslike a) Step up or Step down transformers, and b) Voltage or Current regulation, among other things. The filter is to tke care of noise and ripple etc on the main voltage. When using "brick type" power supplies, the circuit board(s) of the intended devices often have the filtering, regulation, and sometimes even the rectification.

Since I have not ever had a 2000 or 2200, I cannot speak for what is or is not inside the brick and what is on the Snap circuit board(s). But I would bet on pretty good odds that at least the filtering (if not more) is done inside the Snap itself.

Your problem sounds typica of power supply problems, but it could also be many other things. No way for me to tell you beyond this. Sorry...

For more information
REF: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_s...C_power_supply

[SaFeHeX]

The 2200 and 1100 are both the same circuit board, but the 2200 supports two hard drives and the 1100 suports only one.

Currently i own 2x 2200's and 2x 1100's.

I can say as sure as death and taxes, that there are switched mode regulation stages on the main circuit board. One of which will provide 5 volts to the hard drives and many of the other 'parts' of the circuit board. There will most likely be a 3.3 Volt stage too and one to provide the CPU core voltage.

I counted 4 power inductors on one of my 1100 boards.

If you have a clear view of the circuit board you will see the hard drive power connectors. The power and regulation parts of the circuit are on the same side of the board as those connectors and they extend right to the front of the board.

You will see lots of round things, they are capacitors and situated down the same side of the board there are also 4 power inductors. For example the two near the front have 472 stampled onto the top of them.

It doesn't really mater about the details of all this, my main point is that it could be one of the above 'on board' power stages that is faulty or possibly not powerfull enough to supply your larger hard drives, or it could be the 'power brick' that you plug into the wall.

The cheapest way of finding out if it's the power brick, is simply to buy a new one with a slightly higher power rating. 12 volts @ 5 amps = 60watts They are cheap and easy to get hold of and it may solve all of your problems. It is the first thing to try after you are sure your hard drives are working.

If you don't at least try this, then there is nothing else i can suggest.

I guess you need to ask yourself how far are you prepared to go, or how much are you prepared to spend/risk on your 2200?

Another option you could try that will cost you nothing! is to fit/connect only the main hard drive and not the second drive. Obviously you will not have any mirrored data backup BUT you will only be using half of the power. If your 2200 runs fine with just 1 hard drive fitted then it is a good indicator that it's some form of power issue.

That's all i can add to help with the problem if it's a power issue.

The 2200 is a good little unit but as you have suggested maybe it's time to look for a new replacement if you are not prepared to put any effort into finding the fault.

The closest modern equivalent to the 2200 is a GOS unit, the '210' which is a twin hard drive model like the 2200.

Goodluck!

[rickmann08]

Thanks Phoenix and safehex! I will try replacing the brick power supply and see if that does the trick.

Safehex, I looked on the back of the brick on the power supply cord and it does say:

Input: 100-240V -, 50-60Hz
Output: 12V - 2.0A

This sounds like it is less than what you were describing.

[SaFeHeX]

Originally Posted by rickmann08

Safehex, I looked on the back of the brick on the power supply cord and it does say:

Input: 100-240V -, 50-60Hz
Output: 12V - 2.0A

I can tell you for sure, with out a shadow of a doubt that 2.0 Amps is far too small for a two hard drive snap server. No wonder you were having problems.

The Official Snap power supply for a 2200 is 12V @ 3.5 A

The Snap server 210's which are designed for larger hard drives use a 12V @ 5A (60 watts) power brick.

For reference - you will not do any harm to your unit if you have a higher current power brick but it is important that the voltage is correct and also the polarity of the power connector.

12 Volt is a must, do not use any different voltage. But the current (Amps) can be as high a number as you choose. The reason for this and it's the same with almost all things, is that any thing connected to a power supply, such as your Snap, will only take as many "Amps" as is needed. It doesn't force any extra into the unit.

So for example you could use....

12V @ 3.5A (42 watts)
12V @ 4.0A (48 watts)
12V @ 4.16A (50 watts)
12V @ 5.0A (60 watts)

All of these will work but i recommend the last one as it is more powerfull.

By powerfull (the wattage) it is the ability of the power supply to supply power. The device connected will take as much power as it needs and the rest is just surplus to requiremnts, so to speak.

It is not the same for voltage. If the voltage is too high then it will cause damage because voltage essentialy does get forced in there. I won't go into the reasons why (unless you want to learn about ohms law etc) but trust me on that.

Anyway, the long and short of it is, you simply don't have enough power there and the poor old power brick you have now is probably over heating or just tripping out as it's over current protection or limiting is kicking in and limiting the output or even shutting the output off momentarily in order to protect it's self.

If you want to keep your 2200 then seriously, just buy a better power brick and i beleive all of these problems will go away.

I'm sure EVERYONE here in this thread will agree with what i'm saying about 2.0 Amps is just TOO LOW for a Snap 2200.

I KNOW for sure, this is atleast 99.9% of your power issue.

[rickmann08]

Anyway, the long and short of it is, you simply don't have enough power there and the poor old power brick you have now is probably over heating or just tripping out as it's over current protection or limiting is kicking in and limiting the output or even shutting the output off momentarily in order to protect it's self. .

Thanks SafeHex!

This would probably explain why I have only had these issues over the past year. I did find a power supply on ebay which I think is the correct one based on your specs but how do I know if I am getting the right connect that plugs in to the back of the unit.

Have a look: http://www.ebay.com/itm/110909931016...84.m1438.l2649

[SaFeHeX]

Most power bricks are positive center, which is what you need and it looks like that one is the same, although you can always ask the seller to be sure.

Did you know that seller in your link above is registered in China so it's highly likely you will be waiting a good couple of weeks for that to arrive!

I would pay a bit extra if i were you and buy something more local. Ebay is fine but there are sometimes problems with obtaining items from overseas, or atleast it can be here in the UK.

Regarding the conection plug, to the best of my knowledge it's a 2.1mm DC power plug with positive center.

Although this particular listing is in the UK, here is the official Snap 210 power supply for sale. It's exactly the same as what i have for my Snap 210's (yes i have some of those aswell)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Original-P...item3cc82a1266

[rickmann08]

Thanks for looking for me. So even though the description says: Original Power Supply (PSU) for Snap Server 110 210

This will work with my 2200 and will give me the power that you suggest?

Thanks!!!!

[SaFeHeX]

Yes it will work but it's a UK only sale. It was just an example of the real thing, so to speak.

As long as you have 12 volts @ 5 amps with positive center 2.1mm DC power plug then pretty much anything will do.

Try a local search in your area on ebay and that way you may find someone selling something that you could either collect in person or just has local postage costs.

Failing that you can buy these types of power bricks almost anywhere these days.

You may even have some in your house already on other things? For instance some LCD TV's or monitors may use them. 12 volts is really very common.

Goodluck anyway man, this may be my last visit for tonight, it's getting quite late here but if you have any doubts just ask and i'll let you know next time i'm about.

[rickmann08]

Thanks! I did a search and found the same one locally! I will keep you posted on what happens!

[Phoenix32]

I'm not ignoring you, but you are already getting the same advice I would give you, so....

[rickmann08]

LOL.... no problem. I am down for now but I am going to try the new power supply tomorrow.