How big a heater core do I need?

MadHacker · 09-16-2004, 09:14 PM

I have a P4 2.8 800mhz FSB,
my problem is this..
I bought a WW, DD NB chipset waterblock and a PolarFlow GPU waterblock.
as well as a MCP600 pump...
I originaly figured a BIX and bixMicro2 would be enough to cool my system...
hooked it all up.. and got a pretty good overclock.. 3.5Ghz but the fans had to be on full power all the time just to kep it cool..
(bought an MX212 after pHaestus review of them) to control my fans
so i got my self a heatercore instead..
2-148 10.75L 6.125W 2.5deep
now i get even a better overclock.. I can get up as high as 3.7 ghz but again my fans have to be on 100%
To loud... running 4 120mm fans (evercool allum) in push pull config with shrowd
I can run it at 3.8 ghz but it reboots on me after a while when running CPU burn
So my solution is now external box but how big and how many heatercores do I need to get something that is't too loud...
I already have a spare MCP600 so having one to run in my machine
resevoir->WW split to chipset and other half to GPU, then back together again to go to the heatercore then back to the resevoir.
adding a second loop to go from my resevoir -> pump->external heatercores and then back to resevoir a good idea?

any ideas would help...

greenman100 · 09-16-2004, 10:09 PM

60sqin should be plenty

it is for me, and I'm cooling 110w to 4C above ambient

redleader · 09-16-2004, 11:29 PM

A 10*6 heatercore should be overkill for any system, particularly without TECs. Are you getting good airflow through the core? Is the case exchangeing air with the room ok?

MadHacker · 09-17-2004, 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redleader

A 10*6 heatercore should be overkill for any system, particularly without TECs. Are you getting good airflow through the core? Is the case exchangeing air with the room ok?

there is very little blocking the air from entering the core
pictures here before watercooling
i have since removed the floppy drive bays and that is where the heatercore is located...
1" shroud on both sides of the core.
there is 120mm and 90mm fans for exhast...
my onboard cpu diode states the cpu only goes as high as 35deg and ambient is 26 deg...

JWFokker · 09-17-2004, 11:04 PM

I would get a heatercore big enough for 2 120mm fans. I was running my 2-342 heatercore with one fan for a while, until I got the 2nd fan, and when I put it on I got a 2C drop at full load. And these are rather quiet Sanyo Denki's running at half speed. Not loud at all. Tomorrow I'll have to crank them all the way up and see how cold I can get.

MadHacker · 09-17-2004, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JWFokker

I would get a heatercore big enough for 2 120mm fans. I was running my 2-342 heatercore with one fan for a while, until I got the 2nd fan, and when I put it on I got a 2C drop at full load. And these are rather quiet Sanyo Denki's running at half speed. Not loud at all. Tomorrow I'll have to crank them all the way up and see how cold I can get.

At stock speeds I get great temperatures... 28 deg full load

It is when I start to over clock it does temperature become an issue...
I don't know how many people here have a 2.8 GHz CPU and how high they can over clock it..
I can push mine to 3.75 GHz but that is with my fans on 100%...
my temp Max’s out at 35 deg. I don't know what my water temp is.. have to hook up a sensor for that this weekend...

Was thinking of putting 2 2-192 in an external box.
It is 10.75 long x 10.25 wide, 2" deep... that should give me a total of 220 sqr inches of cooling area... could then run my fans at a whisper and not worry about noise...
Then I now have to consider of going with either 172mm fans or a blower...
What ever I do I want to stay with 12v.

bellevegasj · 09-18-2004, 03:34 PM

The easiest answer is: the biggest heater-core you can put into whever you're putting it. The more surface area you have with a fan on it, the better your cooling will be. You can always use a rheobus to turn the fans down when you don't need the extra cooling.

JWFokker · 09-18-2004, 03:36 PM

I don't think it's your temps that are limiting you. 35C at full load overclocked almost 1GHz is awesome. Is your ram or mobo holding you back? I had to replace my budget Asrock mobo for a newer Albatron nforce2 to get over 200fsb with my 2500+. The NB on the newer nforce2 boards can get up to 230mzh FSB with stock cooling where before they were limited to around 200 or less.

MadHacker · 09-18-2004, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JWFokker

I don't think it's your temps that are limiting you. 35C at full load overclocked almost 1GHz is awesome. Is your ram or mobo holding you back? I had to replace my budget Asrock mobo for a newer Albatron nforce2 to get over 200fsb with my 2500+. The NB on the newer nforce2 boards can get up to 230mzh FSB with stock cooling where before they were limited to around 200 or less.

the ram I have is PC 4400. it shouls max me out at 3.85Ghz...
I can overclock to 3.785 ghz easy but i have to leave my fans up at 100%
i don't want to do that...
right now i'm thinking having a chiller would be better...
looking to C if i can get my hands on a used dehumidifier...
that may also take up less space but then i'm back in the sound problem.. how loud is it? hmmm...

bobkoure · 09-18-2004, 06:07 PM

Are you using an external radiator box? If not "fans on full" may be air cooling some elements that otherwise might be holding you back.
A P4 means you don't have multiplier control - right? So you're overclocking by increasing overall clock speed? Not a bad approach, but it leaves you unable to under-multiply your CPU while you determine the fastest the rest of your system will go.
Try running with the case open and the fans turned down a bit - and then use a thermal probe (I use the "Mark 1 probe" - AKA "fingertip"

) to see if there are ancillary chips on your mb running hot. If there are, these might be your problem - try heat-sinking them.

I also find myself wondering as to the advantages/disadvantages of removing a heatspreader from a CPU when using a waterblock. There has got to be additional thermal resistance in the additional boundary the heat has to travel through. I'd thought the point of a WW was minimal distance/resistance for the heat to travel through before it got to water...

MadHacker · 09-20-2004, 02:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobkoure

Are you using an external radiator box? If not "fans on full" may be air cooling some elements that otherwise might be holding you back.
A P4 means you don't have multiplier control - right? So you're overclocking by increasing overall clock speed? Not a bad approach, but it leaves you unable to under-multiply your CPU while you determine the fastest the rest of your system will go.
Try running with the case open and the fans turned down a bit - and then use a thermal probe (I use the "Mark 1 probe" - AKA "fingertip"

) to see if there are ancillary chips on your mb running hot. If there are, these might be your problem - try heat-sinking them.

I also find myself wondering as to the advantages/disadvantages of removing a heatspreader from a CPU when using a waterblock. There has got to be additional thermal resistance in the additional boundary the heat has to travel through. I'd thought the point of a WW was minimal distance/resistance for the heat to travel through before it got to water...

I'm not using an external radiator box.. built into my case..
but I pull the air fresh from out of the case directly to the heater core...
yes my multiplier is locked... so i'm raising my FSB of my CPU right now to 255 mhz.
I have had it running as high as 280 mhz... and ran pretty stable when idle...
it usualy dies after 15 min when I run CPU burn...

also i looked into buying a couple 2-192 heater cores... new... $190CDN each..
to much... scrap that idea...
now considering a chiller... need to find a cheep used dehumidier me thinks...
time to get some ZZzzZZ's

bobkoure · 09-20-2004, 06:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadHacker

...but I pull the air fresh from out of the case directly to the heater core...

I'm not making comments about radiator temps - I'm saying that pushing that additional air through your case might be keeping something else cool - that otherwise is unhappy over 255Mhz - i.e. nothing to do with your watercooling loop

MadHacker · 09-20-2004, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobkoure

I'm not making comments about radiator temps - I'm saying that pushing that additional air through your case might be keeping something else cool - that otherwise is unhappy over 255Mhz - i.e. nothing to do with your watercooling loop

now i C where you are comming from...
hence the "Mark 1 probe" usuage...
idealy putting the heatercore in an external box.. and then having the cool air that is comming in from outside the case to go un obstructed acros the motherboard is better... more air flow... and put heatsinks on what chip is too hot on the MB...

greenman100 · 09-20-2004, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadHacker7

also i looked into buying a couple 2-192 heater cores... new... $190CDN each..
to much... scrap that idea...

I will buy and ship them to you for $35 USD each

MadHacker · 09-20-2004, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenman100

I will buy and ship them to you for $35 USD each

sounds like a great deal...
can't turn that down...
is that including shipping? to Canada? BC.?

greenman100 · 09-20-2004, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadHacker

sounds like a great deal...
can't turn that down...
is that including shipping? to Canada? BC.?

that includes shipping as long as shipping is less then $10 per heatercore

greenman100 · 09-20-2004, 02:18 PM

let me know what vehicle it comes out of

MadHacker · 09-20-2004, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenman100

let me know what vehicle it comes out of

this is all i know about the core...

Code:

CoreNum	Lenght	Width	Depth	In	Out
2-192	10.75	10.25	2	0.625	0.625

from	58-79	Ford Truck	C, CT, BEF, FA5, 001
	58-67	Ford Truck	TILT CAB

the above info i grabed from the zip file in this thread

greenman100 · 09-20-2004, 02:35 PM

yeah, that's what I got too. I can't find a match anywhere, I need a GDI number

greenman100 · 09-20-2004, 02:39 PM

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...spagename=WDVW

wtf, that is rediculous

greenman100 · 09-20-2004, 02:42 PM

2-308 9.875 9.625

an alternative?

MadHacker · 09-20-2004, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenman100

yeah, that's what I got too. I can't find a match anywhere, I need a GDI number

what is a GDI number and where can i find it...?

greenman100 · 09-20-2004, 05:17 PM

it's an alternative part number listing

2-192 is a fedco number

if I knew where to find it I'd have done it.

bobkoure · 09-20-2004, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadHacker

now i C where you are comming from...
hence the "Mark 1 probe" usuage...
idealy putting the heatercore in an external box.

I wouldn't bother with the external box unless the heat sinks didn't solve your problem - I was just asking about whether you were using an external box to see if cranking up the fans on the rad also increased through-case airflow...

MadHacker · 09-20-2004, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenman100

it's an alternative part number listing

2-192 is a fedco number

if I knew where to find it I'd have done it.

I think I can get an alternative reference number...
I needed one when I went to look into buying the parts originally..
Lordco(the place I was going to purchase the heatercore) had a catalog and I found it in there.... but it might take me a couple days or the weekend till I can get back there...

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobkoure

I wouldn't bother with the external box unless the heat sinks didn't solve your problem - I was just asking about whether you were using an external box to see if cranking up the fans on the rad also increased through-case airflow...

I'll test my case that way in the next couple days...
I have a dedicated server that i use as a NAT since i just switched it over to my 2.53 ghz machine I'm having problems with it... hoping replacing the PSU will fix it..
C this this for details...
Anyways right now my machine is running as the NAT and can't afford to much it muck with it... don't want to kill the internet access for the whole house.. (wife and kids) but this is something I will look into as soon as I can.
I'm still thinking of going external box because then I can set something up like "airspirit Watercooled Rackmount Project" too cool my server as well...

09-16-2004, 09:14 PM	#1
MadHacker Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2003 Location: Okotoks, A.B. Canada Posts: 726	How big a heater core do I need? I have a P4 2.8 800mhz FSB, my problem is this.. I bought a WW, DD NB chipset waterblock and a PolarFlow GPU waterblock. as well as a MCP600 pump... I originaly figured a BIX and bixMicro2 would be enough to cool my system... hooked it all up.. and got a pretty good overclock.. 3.5Ghz but the fans had to be on full power all the time just to kep it cool.. (bought an MX212 after pHaestus review of them) to control my fans so i got my self a heatercore instead.. 2-148 10.75L 6.125W 2.5deep now i get even a better overclock.. I can get up as high as 3.7 ghz but again my fans have to be on 100% To loud... running 4 120mm fans (evercool allum) in push pull config with shrowd I can run it at 3.8 ghz but it reboots on me after a while when running CPU burn So my solution is now external box but how big and how many heatercores do I need to get something that is't too loud... I already have a spare MCP600 so having one to run in my machine resevoir->WW split to chipset and other half to GPU, then back together again to go to the heatercore then back to the resevoir. adding a second loop to go from my resevoir -> pump->external heatercores and then back to resevoir a good idea? any ideas would help... __________________ "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds" - (Einstein)

09-16-2004, 10:09 PM	#2
greenman100 Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Florida Posts: 414	60sqin should be plenty it is for me, and I'm cooling 110w to 4C above ambient __________________ "Employ your time in improving yourself by other men's writings, so that you shall gain easily what others have labored hard for." --Socrates "greenman100 = obnoxious ass hole"-gazorp

09-20-2004, 02:18 PM	#17
greenman100 Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Florida Posts: 414	let me know what vehicle it comes out of __________________ "Employ your time in improving yourself by other men's writings, so that you shall gain easily what others have labored hard for." --Socrates "greenman100 = obnoxious ass hole"-gazorp

09-20-2004, 02:35 PM	#19
greenman100 Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Florida Posts: 414	yeah, that's what I got too. I can't find a match anywhere, I need a GDI number __________________ "Employ your time in improving yourself by other men's writings, so that you shall gain easily what others have labored hard for." --Socrates "greenman100 = obnoxious ass hole"-gazorp

09-20-2004, 02:39 PM	#20
greenman100 Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Florida Posts: 414	http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...spagename=WDVW wtf, that is rediculous __________________ "Employ your time in improving yourself by other men's writings, so that you shall gain easily what others have labored hard for." --Socrates "greenman100 = obnoxious ass hole"-gazorp

09-16-2004, 11:29 PM	#3
redleader Thermophile Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: The deserts of Tucson, Az Posts: 1,264	A 10*6 heatercore should be overkill for any system, particularly without TECs. Are you getting good airflow through the core? Is the case exchangeing air with the room ok?

09-17-2004, 11:04 PM	#5
JWFokker Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2004 Location: Kingston, NY Posts: 269	I would get a heatercore big enough for 2 120mm fans. I was running my 2-342 heatercore with one fan for a while, until I got the 2nd fan, and when I put it on I got a 2C drop at full load. And these are rather quiet Sanyo Denki's running at half speed. Not loud at all. Tomorrow I'll have to crank them all the way up and see how cold I can get.

09-18-2004, 03:34 PM	#7
bellevegasj Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: bellevegas, il, usa... center of the universe. Posts: 44	The easiest answer is: the biggest heater-core you can put into whever you're putting it. The more surface area you have with a fan on it, the better your cooling will be. You can always use a rheobus to turn the fans down when you don't need the extra cooling.

09-18-2004, 03:36 PM	#8
JWFokker Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2004 Location: Kingston, NY Posts: 269	I don't think it's your temps that are limiting you. 35C at full load overclocked almost 1GHz is awesome. Is your ram or mobo holding you back? I had to replace my budget Asrock mobo for a newer Albatron nforce2 to get over 200fsb with my 2500+. The NB on the newer nforce2 boards can get up to 230mzh FSB with stock cooling where before they were limited to around 200 or less.

09-18-2004, 06:07 PM	#10
bobkoure Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: USA - Boston area Posts: 798	Are you using an external radiator box? If not "fans on full" may be air cooling some elements that otherwise might be holding you back. A P4 means you don't have multiplier control - right? So you're overclocking by increasing overall clock speed? Not a bad approach, but it leaves you unable to under-multiply your CPU while you determine the fastest the rest of your system will go. Try running with the case open and the fans turned down a bit - and then use a thermal probe (I use the "Mark 1 probe" - AKA "fingertip" ) to see if there are ancillary chips on your mb running hot. If there are, these might be your problem - try heat-sinking them. I also find myself wondering as to the advantages/disadvantages of removing a heatspreader from a CPU when using a waterblock. There has got to be additional thermal resistance in the additional boundary the heat has to travel through. I'd thought the point of a WW was minimal distance/resistance for the heat to travel through before it got to water...

09-20-2004, 02:42 PM	#21
greenman100 Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Florida Posts: 414	2-308 9.875 9.625 an alternative? __________________ "Employ your time in improving yourself by other men's writings, so that you shall gain easily what others have labored hard for." --Socrates "greenman100 = obnoxious ass hole"-gazorp

09-20-2004, 05:17 PM	#23
greenman100 Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Florida Posts: 414	it's an alternative part number listing 2-192 is a fedco number if I knew where to find it I'd have done it. __________________ "Employ your time in improving yourself by other men's writings, so that you shall gain easily what others have labored hard for." --Socrates "greenman100 = obnoxious ass hole"-gazorp

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