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Unread 11-11-2004, 12:52 PM   #1
trodas
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Reservoar like Tank-O-Matic (work in progress)

Everyone probably knows, that watercooling loop must be somehow filled with water and some aditives. When one gain experience it become clear, that the filling is not so easy and done it well and get all the bubbles out often took almost week to complete - in the worst case - no res/bad res, bad setup and tubing and restrictive look - well - could take month

I choosed external and beautifull Tank-O-Matic ( http://www.innovatek.de/contentServ/...php?StoryID=89 ) as the best solution, even it's not exactly cheap one - being sold for about http://store.over-clock.com/Reservoirs.html - 47.79 GPB (that's x 1.84 in curently weak $ - a shocking 88$ !) - not conting the postage...

Well, at least it make filling my system easy job and cleaned the bubbles very well in very short time:
http://ax2.old-cans.com/show.php?p=w...&d=1&id=38&c=8 - bubbles, bubbles
http://ax2.old-cans.com/show.php?p=w...&d=1&id=39&c=8 - no bubbles

Everything was good, but just to date, when after month and something in service is CRACKED!

http://ax2.old-cans.com/show.php?p=b...&v=v2&d=1&id=5
http://ax2.old-cans.com/show.php?p=b...&v=v2&d=1&id=6
http://ax2.old-cans.com/show.php?p=b...&v=v2&d=1&id=7
http://ax2.old-cans.com/show.php?p=b...&v=v2&d=1&id=8
http://ax2.old-cans.com/show.php?p=b...&v=v2&d=1&id=9
...it happens very likely because my temps are too high and the difference in thermal dilation in materials caused this - as you can see, even the little tube, inserted to the AL bottom or this RES, cracked

So, I replaced Tank-O-Matic with Danger Den round reservoir ( http://ax2.old-cans.com/show.php?p=w...7&c=8&d=1&v=v2 ), however temperatures go up by 3 - 6 degrees, removing air get problematic and mainly - water constantly disapearing from the loop, witch I DAMN HATED

And because there is no other similar nice-looking and functional reservoir sold anywhere in this world (I even asked DangerDen, if they could produce a little bit bigger and a little bit different version of the round res for me and for what price - but no reply on this topic...), I decided to make my own res, even the cost of making just one will be likely to get prohobitive. There is my first draw of this one:




...and there is first testing piece on my machine:



As you can see, it prectically did not differ much from Tank-O-Matic, except it is optimized for the flow (Tank-O-Matic internal tubes are 8/10mm, mine are 14/20mm) and a little bigger too. The bottom threads are 1/4" NPT, witch is standard and allow connection of either 1/2" or 3/8" fittings. There is also not the 90 degrees bow, like Tank-O-Matic have, because it killing the flow (bending the tubes in longer diameter is not flow-resistant) and flow is all what matter in WC Thi bigger size helps as well, original is 240x50mm, and my version is 250x60mm (I even created a testing version that is 280mm long, but there is very little, if any benefit and the lenght is custom option anyway ) - more water helps to reach more flaflwss flow, perhaps even better filtration and for sure - less care about refilling

The top and bottom closings are made from 8mm plexiglass (as well as the holders), so the thread will hold very well. The NPT thread is also self-locking and used even in automobiles for oil pans so the sealing is perfect, just when I tighten these with my hand!
The holders could be also glued to "special positions" too :-)

The top cap is the same (almost) as used in the DangerDen res, from same company, just using BSP thread instead of NPT. That's because BSP thread is not conical and self-locing, so ppls will not get troubles unscrew it (I get it and I have fairly strong hands) - and also the top cap is not as critical for sealing. I was somehow surprised that it never leaking anyway - it was never intented to be 100% nonleaking, it is supposed to stay "out of the water" :-)

The pipes for this res are sold by only 2000mm lenghts (2m, aprox. 9 feets), so from one I can make 8 res pieces If anyone found this one nice and usefull enought, I will hapilly sell next nontesting pieces (at least when it's confirmed that decreasing the internal diamater of the closings eliminate the glue "cracks" witch just looking, well, nonpreffesional... tought it by testing apears to be just a design issue), so the one for me did not cost me all the work and stuff need to buy just for cutting the pipes :-/

...to get some idea, how results from my work looks, there are couple of photos for you:

Work on my res project:
http://ax2.old-cans.com/galerie.php?p=res&d=1&v=v2

my watercooling history :-D
http://ax2.old-cans.com/galerie.php?p=wc&c=8&d=1&v=v2

fanless server :-)
http://ax2.old-cans.com/galerie.php?...c&c=8&d=1&v=v2

Enjoy =:-)
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Unread 11-12-2004, 01:44 AM   #2
JWFokker
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That really kicks ass. Would it be possible to make the outlet fitting 3/4" ID, since that's what my Mag 3 uses? I want to reduce flow restriction on the pump intake.

How much are you asking for these anyway?
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Unread 11-12-2004, 09:34 AM   #3
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Trodas - That is one slick reservoir. Nice work!

JW-

Just wondering, are you thinking of connecting the pump directly to the res? That would be a really slick way to reduce needed fittings and overall tubing length in the loop. That way both could be mounted on the same panel as the motherboard in many cases.
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Unread 11-12-2004, 10:49 AM   #4
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Nicely done, sir!
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Unread 11-12-2004, 11:49 AM   #5
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Very obvious a lot of effort went into those. Awesome products man.
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Unread 11-12-2004, 12:35 PM   #6
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Yeah - those look great!

Would it be possible to do the same res but with replaceable endcaps? Maybe use screws and o-rings instead of gluing them on.
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Unread 11-12-2004, 06:20 PM   #7
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JWFokker - thanks! I lack of 3/4" ID fitting, however if the screw of the fitting got standard 1/4" NPT or 1/4" BSP thread - not a problem then Ha, quick look for McMaster Carr show me, that they sold them - http://www.mcmaster.com/ctlg/DisplCt...MMainWidth=812
However for reduction of restriction I recommend use 1/2" fittings And you are on the right track too - inlet is the key.
The exact price is not calculated properly yet, but it should be around 25-30$.

Bugsmasher - thanks! It's actually too big And no, I never come think to that, because there are too many pumps (not all guys use Eheim) and even in Eheims, the inlets does warry.
I mean - for making a perfect connection, you have create there a hole + glue something to make it more supportive - both will be problematic, expensive and mainly - not reliable, because pump does vibrate and even the used acrylon plexiglass type should NOT BE prone to crack, it surely WILL crack when you overstress it - so the line between long reliable connection to the pump inlet and cracking res is too thin, for my taste.
And adding say 100mm of tubing to watercooling loop did not cause any harm, especially not, when the CPU block is cascade/storm type, witch does restrict flow enought, so the increased tubing lenght have exactly zero effect

Brians256 - thanks! glasd you like it I do too, tough

JamesAvery22 - yep, you get it right. From basic sketch to making first testign version (currently tested and working purrrfect) it took almost over 5 months - I always do more research before actually doing something

JSimmons - endcaps? Ah, the bottom fittings you mean, sure. If you check the galery closer, the fittings are there screwed, using standard self-locking NPT threads. These are awesomely sealing - even when I tight them just by bare hand, they did not leak at all - not a one sigle drop
So, one can put there what "endcaps" one want Even the 3/4" ones. I have few 3/8" and mainly planing 1/2" as somehow standard...
BTW, my testing version is, because my watercooling is in middle of rebuilding, equiped with one 1/2" (inlet to pump) and one 3/8" (inlet to res)
Even such things is possible - and no, no epoxy is need. I better keep things changable. I believe this is better way to do things


Anyway, since I retired ma DangerDen round res, I could show what my temps have done to it and where it leak - please note that I not screw the fittings too tight and at first I leave it "as it come", I tighten them a little when it start leaking - but look now!!!
http://ax2.old-cans.com/show.php?p=b...0&c=8&d=1&v=v2

Im affraid that DangerDen used the wrong plexi glass type. It's definitively the hard and maybe shinier/nicer, but sure prone to cracking one!
Not used in my case, that's why my res holding pretty well my temps right now
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Unread 11-12-2004, 08:23 PM   #8
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By "endcap" I believe he meant the flat end piece of the reservoir that the fittings screw into. You used epoxy to put the flat piece onto the end of the reservoir, which you then drilled inlet and outlet holes for.

Did you use silicone sealant on the threads of the inlet and outlet?

Let me know when you start selling the reservoirs. I definitely want to buy one. If you could put a 3/4" outlet fitting on the reservoir, I would greatly appreciate it. If you can't, maybe you could just drill the hole for one and I could buy the 3/4" fitting.
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Unread 11-12-2004, 10:17 PM   #9
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Nice, wish you lived closer. Looking at it has me pulling my old res out. Looks alot alike cept it has a big ass giant top that is full size. Now I think I am going to have to chop it and then follow your lead on the bottom. Very nice.
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Unread 11-15-2004, 09:22 AM   #10
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JWFokker - ah! That explain it well, yep, I understand him now well And no, I not used any sealing, except O-ring on the top, on my testing version. It looks like that nohing at all is need. The NPT thread is self-locking suxxka and not even one damn drop make it trough. Im happy with the result. I planed either teflon tape, or - when it get worse - glue.
Of course, any customer can unscrew these fittings and apply whatever his heart desire - but it's not need at all.
And yup, I going to make more of these to get my money back ...since making the first testing version cost a little "bit" too much
I did not have any 3/4" ID fittings, and since they are far from any standard I hear about, I recommend you buy 10 of them for about less that 5$ (1/2" cost 3.75$, IIRC) in McMaster-Carr and just replace the original ones with these...
I just got ten 3/8" ones for these few ppls out there, that want them. Majority using 1/2" pipes, because of flow and temperatures

JSimmons - now when I got what you are asking about - the answer is no. It will be very problematic to machine both parts (you can't scratch the plexi at all) with threads. Futhermore, in that case, we need notably thicker ends on the res - to made the thread long enought for good sealing.
And since in exactly THIS thread my Tank-O-Crap leaked me for months, despite adding teflon tape, having a O-ring there and tightening it every day more and more, till it cracked badly - the answer is not just no, its a BIG and devinitive NEVER
I never want experience THIS again

psychofunk - nah, earth is actually a pretty small place, after all Considering actual leader of US I wish I live much more far, far away... Okay, stop the political BS And actually, you will follow the Tank-O-Crap design in the best part - where it work. Just frop the faulty part, where it can crack - combining aluminium and plexi glass. At least, hell, they should (like me), used Acrylon, witch is cast and more soft - it's more likely to bend in stress, that crack. Of course it will crack when the stress/bend is extreme
So, show yourself your masterpiece anyway!
I meanwhile saw this:
http://snt-systems.com/catalog/produ...products_id=96
Not bad, except there is no gain from such extreme height of the res And this one IS way too big - and too slim too... But still, a nice alternative
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Unread 11-22-2004, 09:27 PM   #11
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How's progress on these? I switched my drive bay reservoir for a t-line and it was a pain in the ass to bleed, and temps stayed the same to boot.

If you can't get a 3/4" ID outlet barb, are you able to at least drill the hole for one so I can buy and attach one?
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Unread 11-25-2004, 03:55 PM   #12
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Progress is bad, I waiting on RadekB to do another test samples to glue - with little space now, so the crackings on gluing did not happen again

Trust me, I would like to know that things will work too, but... :shrug:
Probpems, problems, problems...

Anyway, yes, you can screw there any barbs you like - as long it have the 1/4" NPT thread (optionaly 1/4" BSP one) - and yes, as I already 2 posts back pointed out, McMaster-Carr selling suitable 3/4" barbs (with the 1/4" NPT thread), so you can use them easily
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Unread 11-25-2004, 10:09 PM   #13
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I know I can get the barbs, but I was wondering if you could drill the hole, since I don't have the tools to drill it myself.
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Unread 11-25-2004, 10:36 PM   #14
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very nice work....
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Unread 12-10-2004, 05:34 AM   #15
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JWFokker - not a single problem. Not only dril the hole, but most importantly - made the thread there So you will just screw the barb and enjoy... Don't need to overtight it anyway. It holt under pressure pretty well, see below.

Cranky - thanks And it's getting better, I fixed the flue-crack-looking thing, so by beta 1 res is visually pretty fine. (I keep my alpha 1 anyway, works fine, survived pressure test as well - and the cracks are virtually invisible from half meter up away) There remain only slight glue-maps but Im just a guy - not a automat. I can't made always 100% right amount of glue...

Anyway, nice, one, is not it?

http://ax2.old-cans.com/show.php?p=r...&d=1&id=45&c=8

...and testing by almost 5 atm:



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Unread 12-11-2004, 01:53 PM   #16
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That looks great. When do you estimate that you'll be ready to start selling them?
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Unread 01-14-2005, 12:59 PM   #17
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JWFokker - quite soon, I hope If of course depends on fixing some production problems and coop with RadekB, however it should be all clear in two weeks top Meanwhile some screenshots from instalation/usage:










...rest is there:
http://ax2.old-cans.com/galerie.php...28&c=8&d=1&v=v2

...and Im kinda happy with the resulting temps. They are recorded at 12:30, and the machine was folding (100% CPU load) from 8:30 + music + surfing and so on...
Damn, I beat fanlessly most of the normal WC guys with fans!!!
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Unread 01-16-2005, 05:35 PM   #18
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looks real sweet. Damn nice job

-S
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Unread 01-17-2005, 05:35 AM   #19
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And now a little update. I trying to manage trully working solution, so it means that I have to test the res before shiping it
I first tried the testing my long water culumn, however the resulting pressure is small, and in the end, into the res stay some dirt from the dry water So I come up with this:





At first, I did not used the clamps, because the used DangerDen tubing is IMPOSSIBLE to insert by hand on the barbs, so I tought it's not necessary to use clamps. At first, I want to test the pressure w/o res, of course. So I started pumping and pressure go up. At about 1.8 atm the hose with manometer just fly out of the brass
I still do not realized what Im up to.
So, I added clamps and pressure can go up and up... but WTF?! My pump hardly can manage anything over 4 atm! I was seriously disapointed.
But then I realized that average pressure in car tires are 2.1- 2.2atm, and I get a bit shocked about it...
It's the same pressure, as in normal radiators in room, for example.
No res on Earth could must manage this - this is a bit overkill :

So i sink the res in basin, and try the pressure as much, as it can go. Sadly, at about 0.75 to 1.25atm the top cap start leaking boubles, so ïn most cases, the leak test of the res body is limited to a little over 2atm.
The top cap is not intended to be as hermetic, and considering the mentioned usage, it can work as pressure safe release :lol:
After all, I did not know about single WC loop where pressure can reach such values

http://ax2.old-cans.com/show.php?p=r...9&c=8&d=1&v=v2
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Unread 02-15-2005, 11:49 AM   #20
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Now RadekB, who made the top closings and holders, come up with a little dirrerent holder type with holes, see there the old and news ones:



...on Epox 8RDA+ mobo :

And for better idea, that it looks when I holding it by my hand to the funny testing reservoir made for fun from bad parts:

New design:


Old design:


The holes are 25mm from themselves and got a 4mm diameter - and now come my mad idea! 4mm is ideal for 1) making a M5 thread 2) inserting a smaller LED diode ...now wait a minute, what happen, when I enlarge the holes to 5mm? This:



At first I tought that it looks better that the smaller ones, however now Im not so sure. Anyway, the most important thing is, that into the 5mm holes one can tightly insert (push-in) normal, BIG LEDs and things could look this way:



( http://ax2.old-cans.com/show.php?p=r...&d=1&id=55&c=8 )

And this absolutely catched up my eyes!
I think that this is great ...and of course, I can optionaly increase the holes diameter for anyone for free...
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Unread 02-15-2005, 06:29 PM   #21
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Looks pretty good. Things are progressing well. Keep up the good work and let us know when we can buy one!
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Unread 02-16-2005, 08:17 AM   #22
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Excellent work

I'm trying to work out what I want to do for my res problems.

If you look at this pic:



(image note: the pumps would actually be side by side, not on top of one another, thats only for illustration purposes.)

You'll see that I want to place the res behind a dual 120mm radiator, which I'll be putting at the front of my 5.25" bays. The available space is

140mm width x 100mm depth x 280mm height.

Now if I split that space down the middle it gives me;

70mm (W) x 100mm (D) x 280mm (H).

As your res design has a diameter of 60mm I should be able to fit two side by side (One for each loop).

You mentioned that when you start to make these to sell you could change the height; the height of your reference design wouldn't fit in this space. Would you be able to do one that was 180~190mm tall? (+14 mm (top cap) +35mm (barbs) + 50mm for clearance for tubes = 280mm ish)

Instead of using the holders that you have pictured (won't be needing them as its inside the case) I'll have to make some sort of stand to support both res'.

Let me know what you think

Once again, excellent work!

Last edited by KuniD; 02-16-2005 at 08:24 AM.
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Unread 02-21-2005, 08:01 AM   #23
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JWFokker - well, some friends already convinced me and I sold first piece already, however I has not yet got time to work on ordering page and the payment details from outside CR, so... Just a little patience, pls
Day sadly did not have 48+ hours...

KuniD - whooooa! Excelent picture and very bold idea too - looks like you have good idea what to do I can change almost anything, not just the height, but yes, I can do it. I already made 150mm version and it seems to work still good, especially when are well-placed - this is the first testing setup, a bit ghetto, of the dude who wants is: http://ax2.old-cans.com/s.php?p=badt...0&c=8&d=1&v=v2
You calculation is correct, the only one thing I will recommend is to leave more for the tubes, actually I think that 60mm at least has to be there, so, my recommendation is to shave it to 170mm of it's sizes

How do you plan on filling the loop? Removable top, or you made a holes to the top? (I mean holes like this, just w/o the grid: http://ax2.old-cans.com/s.php?p=wc&id=67&c=8&d=1&v=v2 )

And yep, I can do this, not a problem. With ONE condition, tough I want a quality picture(s) of this monster when done!


PS. I already (when sending few res to guys in Czech aleady) asked for the prices of insured box postage:

Posting of 0.44kg (up to 1kg is the price same) package withing Czech republic - 44,- Kc
to Slovakia - 205,- Kc
to Germany - 530,- Kc
to England - 322,- Kc express 473,- Kc
to USA - 431,- Kc
to Australia - 367,- Kc express 641,- Kc

current exchage rates:

$1 US = 22.82 Kc
$1 CAD = 18.55 Kc
$1 AUD = 17.97 Kc
1 € = 29.83 Kc
1 L = 43.22 Kc
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Unread 02-28-2005, 12:48 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trodas
KuniD - whooooa! Excelent picture and very bold idea too - looks like you have good idea what to do I can change almost anything, not just the height, but yes, I can do it. I already made 150mm version and it seems to work still good, especially when are well-placed - this is the first testing setup, a bit ghetto, of the dude who wants is: http://ax2.old-cans.com/s.php?p=badt...0&c=8&d=1&v=v2
You calculation is correct, the only one thing I will recommend is to leave more for the tubes, actually I think that 60mm at least has to be there, so, my recommendation is to shave it to 170mm of it's sizes

How do you plan on filling the loop? Removable top, or you made a holes to the top? (I mean holes like this, just w/o the grid: http://ax2.old-cans.com/s.php?p=wc&id=67&c=8&d=1&v=v2 )

And yep, I can do this, not a problem. With ONE condition, tough I want a quality picture(s) of this monster when done!


PS. I already (when sending few res to guys in Czech aleady) asked for the prices of insured box postage:

Posting of 0.44kg (up to 1kg is the price same) package withing Czech republic - 44,- Kc
to Slovakia - 205,- Kc
to Germany - 530,- Kc
to England - 322,- Kc express 473,- Kc
to USA - 431,- Kc
to Australia - 367,- Kc express 641,- Kc

current exchage rates:

$1 US = 22.82 Kc
$1 CAD = 18.55 Kc
$1 AUD = 17.97 Kc
1 € = 29.83 Kc
1 L = 43.22 Kc

170mm sounds great, that'll leave enough space for tubes. As they'll be mounted in my 5.25" bays, I can fill them by tilting them forward 30degree's or so. I want fabricate a res holding system that'll let me tilt down using some kind of ratcheting system.

Don't worry about pics buddy, I'll make sure to take plenty while I'm putting the system together As I mentioned before I'll definitely take two, as I need one for each loop. As they have a 60mm diameter I can easily fit two side by side in the 5.25" bays.

Keep us updated, I'm really looking forward to getting my hands on these!
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If we in some way offend you, insult you or your people, screw your mom, beat up your dad, or poop on your porch... we're sorry... we were probably really drunk...
Oh and dont steal our content bitches! Don't give us a reason to pee in your open car window this summer...