How does this design look?

FooTemps · 02-28-2005, 01:22 AM

I've been messing around lately in rhino 3d and this design isn't really anything significant but I was just wondering how this would be for a cost effective design.

Inlet in the middle and 2 outlets at opposite corners.

I was thinking of doing one with pins like the mcw6002 but with this design i could just tap it and bolt a plexi top on so I don't have to deal with soldering parts together.

bigben2k · 02-28-2005, 06:01 PM

That ought to work just fine. Easy to make too.

JFettig · 02-28-2005, 06:31 PM

I made one very similar a couple years ago, although mine didnt have as deep of channels and suffere because of that. The only problem I see is itll be nearly impossible to fit even 3/8" hosebarbs or even 1/4" hosebarbs in that little space.
Do you plan to make this one yourself or how do you plan on going about doing that?

Jon

FooTemps · 02-28-2005, 08:56 PM

Actually the block is a lot bigger than it looks. I sized it with the barbs in mind. I'm going to a machine shop with the milling code.

FooTemps · 03-01-2005, 01:25 AM

Hmm... I completely forgot about this detail...

What is the max size for screws to mount to the board?
What about for a gf4 ti graphics card?

JFettig · 03-01-2005, 09:11 AM

FooTemps, its a little difficult to just hand them a G-code file and expect them to be able to use it. The drawing would be much more useful.

Jon

FooTemps · 03-01-2005, 10:33 AM

Well it's someone I know and I have their tooling and post processing already accounted for.

FooTemps · 03-03-2005, 08:58 PM

Alright, I talked to my machinist friend he has only has experience with alu and brass and I'm planning on making it out of copper. He has no experience with copper and was wondering if there were any differences in milling copper parts. Is there any problems with galling and smearing or anything else?

JFettig · 03-04-2005, 08:47 AM

when he is milling it, mill at about 50% to 75% as fast as aluminum, the max depth I think he should take is half the diameter, copper is gummy so use plenty of coolant.

Other than that its really not that bad, you just gotta be prepared for it, simply a little smaller chip load and not as deep of cuts.
I have done a lot of 1/16" cuts in copper with lots of success, I dont recall ever breaking an end mill that size.

Jon

Susquehannock · 03-06-2005, 03:49 PM

As a metalsmith & retired master machinist I'd say JFettig is spot on ... for the most part
copper is more "gummy" and will tend to stick to the cutter. Use plenty of coolant of course.

Good luck with the design Foo. Looking forward to seeing how it turns out.

FooTemps · 03-08-2005, 02:24 AM

putting on a top... well, I've gotten to the design stage where I'm trying to figure out how i'm going to seal the top on. I'm thinking about bolting a lexan top on but there isn't room for an oring groove on the base. Should I just use some sort of sealant goop?

jman1310 · 03-08-2005, 03:07 AM

rtv sealant works great

Loquillo · 03-12-2005, 10:41 AM

Please, look at this.
It´s in Spanish but the pictures express by themselves

http://www.devilmaster.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=488

Regards

jaydee · 03-12-2005, 12:47 PM

Nice work.

Susquehannock · 03-12-2005, 01:15 PM

Hey, nice lynk there.

That design would be easy to cut on the Bridgeport.

Some goop would probably work to seal the top. But an O-ring groove would be much
more sightly, and effective. Is there no room at all the machine a channel around
the outer edge Foo?

FooTemps · 03-12-2005, 10:08 PM

I'm not sure how getting a groove in there would turn out... right now it seems a bit hard since it'd be a little clutters since it'd be right next to the screw holes.

Yeah, I just looked at the file again and it doesn't seem there's adequate room for an oring...

I was thinking I would just goop the top on and frost the parts where water won't be visible.

edit: here's my final render of the block, I made the channels deeper to about 5/8" instead of 3/8". There's probably room for an oring somehow but I'm just too lazy to make a groove. I'm just gonna goop it. I already sent the stock to my friend along with the files.

FooTemps · 03-23-2005, 08:10 PM

question: what are the size and thread for brass hose barbs?

JFettig · 03-23-2005, 11:19 PM

Footemps, first thing to do is move those mounting holes as far away from the channels as possible,

Also, thats an extremely thick block, I would suggest 3/8" overall and 1/4" deep channels.

1/4"NPT holes need a 7/16" hole to tap them.

Jon

FooTemps · 03-24-2005, 06:48 PM

thanks for the tips, i already tweaked the design again and it's similar to what i originally posted and with different mounting screw locations.

Jag · 03-25-2005, 03:34 AM

A similar design has already been made.
Look here: http://www.insanewb.com/waterblock/g...?waterblock=43

JFettig · 03-25-2005, 06:30 PM

Jag, that block isnt very similar at all in many ways.

Footemps, what did you end up doing with the design?

Jon

FooTemps · 03-25-2005, 10:49 PM

well, it's a learning process for me so my machinist friend is teaching me how to properly work with VisualMill along the way. Right now the copper piece is split and honed and being cut/ waiting to be cut.

Jag, that design is very different...

1.) That is a pelt cooler.
2.) That has 1 in, 1 out... mine is 1 in, 2 out.
3.) The channel design is different.

Susquehannock · 03-27-2005, 01:15 PM

> " my machinist friend is teaching me how to properly work with VisualMill along the way." <

Nice - any time you can get someone to share their expertise with you is a good thing.
Wish you the best of luck with it.

peepingdan · 03-28-2005, 12:24 PM

I've broken 4 double-sided endmills while cutting my (incomplete) waterblock. First 2 were my fault because I didn't notice the RPM's went higher, the last 2 were just my program going too fast and the copper gumming up the tool. I can say that copper was REALLY annoying to mill with the tools and experience that I had.

Susquehannock · 03-28-2005, 01:45 PM

Yeah, Copper has a higher ductility & can be a problem with cutters which
have been ground for machining ferrous materials.

Excessive vibrations & digging are usually indicative of too much rake or clearance
behind the cutting edge. And sometimes of too high RPM and feed speed.
For copper alloys, as a general rule, the clearance behind the cutting edge should
be sufficeint to prevent a rubbing or burnishing action.
In other words, more of a shearing or scraping action than digging in.

I was taught in the 'old school' way where we had to grind our lathe bits
& mill cutters for each job. My teacher spent near as much time inspecting our chips
as he did with the part itself. Don't see much of that anymore.
Some of the younger CNC machinists I've spoke with in recent years have no idea
about bit/cutter grinding. They were taught to grab another pre-made one from
the shelf. Which is a real shame IMhO.

Back on track .......
If you have no way to regrind the cutters try slower RPM, feed speed, and
use a lot of soluable oil as coolant.
Cutting fluids with high lubricity should be avoided since they can cause the
cutting edges to slide over the work surface during the initial part of the cut.
At this point it would be interesting to note that with the proper cutter and
speeds, often no fluid is need at all. Depending on the work piece &
machining operation performed of course.

Hope that helps & wasn't too long winded.

02-28-2005, 01:22 AM	#1
FooTemps Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: WA, USA Posts: 49	How does this design look? I've been messing around lately in rhino 3d and this design isn't really anything significant but I was just wondering how this would be for a cost effective design. Inlet in the middle and 2 outlets at opposite corners. I was thinking of doing one with pins like the mcw6002 but with this design i could just tap it and bolt a plexi top on so I don't have to deal with soldering parts together.

02-28-2005, 06:01 PM	#2
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	That ought to work just fine. Easy to make too. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

03-12-2005, 10:41 AM	#13
Loquillo Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: www.tortugahard.com Posts: 11	Please, look at this. It´s in Spanish but the pictures express by themselves http://www.devilmaster.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=488 Regards Last edited by Loquillo; 12-07-2005 at 07:53 AM.

03-12-2005, 01:15 PM	#15
Susquehannock Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: workbench Posts: 46	Hey, nice lynk there. That design would be easy to cut on the Bridgeport. Some goop would probably work to seal the top. But an O-ring groove would be much more sightly, and effective. Is there no room at all the machine a channel around the outer edge Foo? __________________ Master Machinist /Tool & Die (Ret.) ~ Metalsmith Last edited by Susquehannock; 03-13-2005 at 12:30 PM.

03-25-2005, 10:49 PM	#22
FooTemps Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: WA, USA Posts: 49	well, it's a learning process for me so my machinist friend is teaching me how to properly work with VisualMill along the way. Right now the copper piece is split and honed and being cut/ waiting to be cut. Jag, that design is very different... 1.) That is a pelt cooler. 2.) That has 1 in, 1 out... mine is 1 in, 2 out. 3.) The channel design is different. Last edited by FooTemps; 03-25-2005 at 11:50 PM.

02-28-2005, 06:31 PM	#3
JFettig Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Willmar MN/Fargo ND Posts: 504	I made one very similar a couple years ago, although mine didnt have as deep of channels and suffere because of that. The only problem I see is itll be nearly impossible to fit even 3/8" hosebarbs or even 1/4" hosebarbs in that little space. Do you plan to make this one yourself or how do you plan on going about doing that? Jon

02-28-2005, 08:56 PM	#4
FooTemps Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: WA, USA Posts: 49	Actually the block is a lot bigger than it looks. I sized it with the barbs in mind. I'm going to a machine shop with the milling code.

03-01-2005, 01:25 AM	#5
FooTemps Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: WA, USA Posts: 49	Hmm... I completely forgot about this detail... What is the max size for screws to mount to the board? What about for a gf4 ti graphics card?

03-01-2005, 09:11 AM	#6
JFettig Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Willmar MN/Fargo ND Posts: 504	FooTemps, its a little difficult to just hand them a G-code file and expect them to be able to use it. The drawing would be much more useful. Jon

03-01-2005, 10:33 AM	#7
FooTemps Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: WA, USA Posts: 49	Well it's someone I know and I have their tooling and post processing already accounted for.

03-03-2005, 08:58 PM	#8
FooTemps Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: WA, USA Posts: 49	Alright, I talked to my machinist friend he has only has experience with alu and brass and I'm planning on making it out of copper. He has no experience with copper and was wondering if there were any differences in milling copper parts. Is there any problems with galling and smearing or anything else?

03-04-2005, 08:47 AM	#9
JFettig Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Willmar MN/Fargo ND Posts: 504	when he is milling it, mill at about 50% to 75% as fast as aluminum, the max depth I think he should take is half the diameter, copper is gummy so use plenty of coolant. Other than that its really not that bad, you just gotta be prepared for it, simply a little smaller chip load and not as deep of cuts. I have done a lot of 1/16" cuts in copper with lots of success, I dont recall ever breaking an end mill that size. Jon

03-06-2005, 03:49 PM	#10
Susquehannock Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: workbench Posts: 46	As a metalsmith & retired master machinist I'd say JFettig is spot on ... for the most part copper is more "gummy" and will tend to stick to the cutter. Use plenty of coolant of course. Good luck with the design Foo. Looking forward to seeing how it turns out.

03-08-2005, 02:24 AM	#11
FooTemps Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: WA, USA Posts: 49	putting on a top... well, I've gotten to the design stage where I'm trying to figure out how i'm going to seal the top on. I'm thinking about bolting a lexan top on but there isn't room for an oring groove on the base. Should I just use some sort of sealant goop?

03-08-2005, 03:07 AM	#12
jman1310 Cooling Savant Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Sunny Florida Posts: 246	rtv sealant works great

03-12-2005, 12:47 PM	#14
jaydee Put up or Shut Up Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 6,506	Nice work.

03-23-2005, 08:10 PM	#17
FooTemps Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: WA, USA Posts: 49	question: what are the size and thread for brass hose barbs?

03-23-2005, 11:19 PM	#18
JFettig Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Willmar MN/Fargo ND Posts: 504	Footemps, first thing to do is move those mounting holes as far away from the channels as possible, Also, thats an extremely thick block, I would suggest 3/8" overall and 1/4" deep channels. 1/4"NPT holes need a 7/16" hole to tap them. Jon

03-24-2005, 06:48 PM	#19
FooTemps Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: WA, USA Posts: 49	thanks for the tips, i already tweaked the design again and it's similar to what i originally posted and with different mounting screw locations.

03-25-2005, 03:34 AM	#20
Jag Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 179	A similar design has already been made. Look here: http://www.insanewb.com/waterblock/g...?waterblock=43

03-25-2005, 06:30 PM	#21
JFettig Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Willmar MN/Fargo ND Posts: 504	Jag, that block isnt very similar at all in many ways. Footemps, what did you end up doing with the design? Jon

03-27-2005, 01:15 PM	#23
Susquehannock Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: workbench Posts: 46	> " my machinist friend is teaching me how to properly work with VisualMill along the way." < Nice - any time you can get someone to share their expertise with you is a good thing. Wish you the best of luck with it.

03-28-2005, 12:24 PM	#24
peepingdan Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Los Gatos, California Posts: 58	I've broken 4 double-sided endmills while cutting my (incomplete) waterblock. First 2 were my fault because I didn't notice the RPM's went higher, the last 2 were just my program going too fast and the copper gumming up the tool. I can say that copper was REALLY annoying to mill with the tools and experience that I had.

03-28-2005, 01:45 PM	#25
Susquehannock Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: workbench Posts: 46	Yeah, Copper has a higher ductility & can be a problem with cutters which have been ground for machining ferrous materials. Excessive vibrations & digging are usually indicative of too much rake or clearance behind the cutting edge. And sometimes of too high RPM and feed speed. For copper alloys, as a general rule, the clearance behind the cutting edge should be sufficeint to prevent a rubbing or burnishing action. In other words, more of a shearing or scraping action than digging in. I was taught in the 'old school' way where we had to grind our lathe bits & mill cutters for each job. My teacher spent near as much time inspecting our chips as he did with the part itself. Don't see much of that anymore. Some of the younger CNC machinists I've spoke with in recent years have no idea about bit/cutter grinding. They were taught to grab another pre-made one from the shelf. Which is a real shame IMhO. Back on track ....... If you have no way to regrind the cutters try slower RPM, feed speed, and use a lot of soluable oil as coolant. Cutting fluids with high lubricity should be avoided since they can cause the cutting edges to slide over the work surface during the initial part of the cut. At this point it would be interesting to note that with the proper cutter and speeds, often no fluid is need at all. Depending on the work piece & machining operation performed of course. Hope that helps & wasn't too long winded. Last edited by Susquehannock; 03-28-2005 at 02:25 PM.

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