WC eXtreme 3.0 Made in Poland

[Hikari]

Hello everyone! It is nice to write the first topic on this Forum which would describe my new...



Finally after 10 months of hard work, thousands of mods, changes, repairs I can say that it is finished!

The essential priority was maximum efficiency provided that all elements are inside the case. The rest is also very important to me: thanks to rheobus I have control over all fans (efficiency or silence in night); the hole system must be of highest quality and it should look at least good.

In case of increasing the efficiency I have no idea what to improve. I paid great attention to all details:
- I used all available space in my case (no place left for next radiator )
- I installed 2 radiators in optimal spots
- Shroud is a standard; all fans which blows into the case have filters
- I use only PAPST fans (two exceptions - one original Chieftec in side panel and one TT on Memory Cooling Kit)
- Pump of nominal value reaching 6m3/h
- The shortest lenght of hoses
- Good air circulation
- High quality and efficiency waterblocks. All of them are sanded and the surface, which do not has a contact with water or the elements cooled is covered with transparent varnish
- The system is definitely more effective and more silent than AC

So let's go! Enjoy

Some pictures of my case with WC inside.






Without side panel you can observe the labyrinth of hoses It required a lot of work but It was the only way to cool everything the best way.





On the left HALM - the heart of my system. Head of 8m and 6000 l/h is what I wanted to achieve. On the right Chevette radiator with shroud + PAPST 172mm (12V).


Front - you can see the dust on the filters after 3 weeks!


Now something which looks good. The opened case with illumination. I prefer LED's to cathodes (although I have 2x 10cm UV) because using them you can have better efects - one cathode and all is blue :/




My waterblock's top with 3 LED's and engraved text "WC eXtreme 3.0" + my name. Thank to Cris and Popixs for perfect job!




Thanks to LED's and UV Dye-Lite the effect is brilliant.


Mosfet waterblock.


Weland - my NB cooler.


Rheobus + thermometer. Reservoir is from DangerDen (4 LED illumination), but it is not proper for this system :/






I painted tanks of radiator silver. 2 white LEDs illuminate the shroud.


The case with illumination and side window (real glass!). Thank to CNC water cutting its shape is PERFECT. Great job (thanks to Hub and Krzysiek).








My headquaters


One picture of window - I like it very much!


And in the end pictures of my waterblocks.














Thanks to:
CopperField - great waterblocks; Mate, Discotech; Popixs i Witch; Michal Z; Hubert and Krzysiek - water cutting; D&M&G&B - digital camera; and many other people.

Any comments or suggestions?

[Hikari]

To anticipate your questions:
- in system there is demineralized water + corossion inhibitor + UV-Dye Lite + Water Wetter

- all PCI cards (except graphic) and HDD are easy to remove

- golden rule: efficiency or silcence.
Standard:
PAPST 172mm - 12V
3x PAPST 120mm - ~7,5V (very, very, very quiet)
PAPST 8412NGL + TT Mem - 12V
2xPAPST 8412NGL (back) + Chieftec (side) - ~7V
Chieftec's fan can have voltage of the back fans/12V/OFF. I cut the molex because it was not pro. There are 2 pieces of metal (first in case, second on panel) that work as a contact when you close the panel. Thank to rheobus I have total control over all fans!

- the labirynth and vast of copper elbows were just a result of the target of overwhelming performance (without TECs or FC)

- temperature of water in silcent mode amounts to ~2,5*C higher than ambient (my record is 0,2*C!!!)

- the higher the water flow the better the C/W ratio. Replacing EHEIM 1250 with HALM resulted in 1-2*C less on CPU. The pump is very silent (better than EHEIM).

- using back swith you are able to turn off all lights

Price of waterblocks and other equipment:
- URIEL2 (CPU) - PLN 150 = E 32
- WELAND (NB) - PLN 110 = E 23
- ATIRA (GPU) - PLN 120 = E 25
- MOSFET - tailor made by CopperField

- PUMP - PLN 280 = E 59
- radiators - second hand
- PAPST fans - 80mm ~E 10; 172mm ~E 8 (second hand); 3x120mm ~ E 2 (second hand)
+ a lot, lot, lot, lot and lot of work

[satanicoo]

Definitely a nice system, with good looks and smartly builted.

Just a few notes, for a future system:

Originally Posted by Hikari

- golden rule: efficiency or silcence.

You can have an eficient watercooling system even when silent.
The golden rule should above all be: eficiency vs silence vs size.

Originally Posted by Hikari

- the labirynth and vast of copper elbows were just a result of the target of overwhelming performance (without TECs or FC)

- temperature of water in silcent mode amounts to ~2,5*C higher than ambient (my record is 0,2*C!!!)

- the higher the water flow the better the C/W ratio. Replacing EHEIM 1250 with HALM resulted in 1-2*C less on CPU. The pump is very silent (better than EHEIM).

Avoid elbows, simple tubing is less restrictive.
And shrouds are always a necessity. --> sorry, saw its shrouded.
http://www.procooling.com/articles/h..._tricks_fo.php

And i find it hard for you to have 2,5*C water temp above ambient. Maybe at full fan speeds and with shrouds you could get it.
And never 0.2*C

Still a cool system and much better than the majority that are seen.

[Zogthetroll]

WOW, very nice. I like the glass window, very few people do those. you got some nice stuff in that case. How long did it take to make that beast? about the hose fittings, since they're swept 45's they aren't really much resistance, so you would probably only see a small improvement in flow/temps if you replumbed the setup. In your case i dunno if i'd bother after all the work that went into it, not to mention redoing it.

[pdf27]

Price of waterblocks and other equipment:
- URIEL2 (CPU) - PLN 150 = E 32
- WELAND (NB) - PLN 110 = E 23
- ATIRA (GPU) - PLN 120 = E 25

Those look seriously cheap from where I'm sitting - the CPU block (WW Clone) for a start is only about 40% of the price a WW would be in the UK. If you can make and sell them for anything like that you're on to a good thing IMHO...

[Hikari]

Originally Posted by satanicoo

Definitely a nice system, with good looks and smartly builted.

Nice to hear that

Originally Posted by satanicoo

You can have an eficient watercooling system even when silent. The golden rule should above all be: eficiency vs silence vs size.

Right, but in case of "all inside" system the size is limited so this factor is a constraint.

Originally Posted by satanicoo

Avoid elbows, simple tubing is less restrictive.

I will have to order Tygon, but it is quite complicated since I need 10/12, 12/16 and 16/20-22mm hoses.
To avoid problems you can use spirals provided you put them outside the hose (in hoses you must have linear not turbulent flow).

Originally Posted by satanicoo

And i find it hard for you to have 2,5*C water temp above ambient. Maybe at full fan speeds and with shrouds you could get it.
And never 0.2*C

I used digital termometer, especially calibrated for the test. The sensors are LM35 (+/- 0,25*C).
2,5*C is a standard result:
PAPST 172mm - 12V
3xPAPST 120mm - ~7,5V
2xPAPST 80mm (back) - 8V
CHIFTEC (side) - 8V
PAPST 80mm (hdd) - 12V
TT Memory - 12V

0,2*C was a record! All fans 12V (I don't have a 48V power supply to unleash the performance of PAPST 172mm).

Originally Posted by satanicoo

Still a cool system and much better than the majority that are seen.

Outstanding performance is what counts!
The two things I am shamed of is that I have to bought heater core and reservoir. It my opinion it is no problem to buy all the parts and then assemble the system. In fact to have the performance it must be a tailored-made.

Originally Posted by Zogthetroll

WOW, very nice. I like the glass window, very few people do those. you got some nice stuff in that case.

Glass is MUCH MORE BETTER than Plexiglas! This solution is worth recommending although is is harder to cut the glass.

Originally Posted by Zogthetroll

How long did it take to make that beast?

10 months

Originally Posted by Zogthetroll

about the hose fittings, since they're swept 45's they aren't really much resistance, so you would probably only see a small improvement in flow/temps if you replumbed the setup. In your case i dunno if i'd bother after all the work that went into it, not to mention redoing it.

2x45 are much more restrictive than 90. I used 15 and 18mm elbows to reduce the resistance to minimum. Probably I will buy tygon.

Originally Posted by pdf27

Those look seriously cheap from where I'm sitting - the CPU block (WW Clone) for a start is only about 40% of the price a WW would be in the UK. If you can make and sell them for anything like that you're on to a good thing IMHO...

Cheap because they are made in Poland. The quality of them is better than D-Tek's!
I will do anything to make our blocks avaible for you - the producer is looking for resellers in GB.

[pdf27]

Originally Posted by Hikari

Cheap because they are made in Poland. The quality of them is better than D-Tek's!
I will do anything to make our blocks avaible for you - the producer is looking for resellers in GB.

Well, I won't be in the market for any for another 6 months or so (after I get a job and can afford to upgrade my computer).
When does Poland join the EU, 2 months or so? Once you're in there should be no tax on exports from Poland to the EU.

[Hikari]

Originally Posted by pdf27

Well, I won't be in the market for any for another 6 months or so (after I get a job and can afford to upgrade my computer).
When does Poland join the EU, 2 months or so? Once you're in there should be no tax on exports from Poland to the EU.

On the 1st of May 2004
No matter whether there is exports tax or not we can be very comptetitive. It is just a matter of the reseller.

[satanicoo]

How about a fee for cathar on each CPU block?

[Hikari]

Fee is necessary only in case of patent - as far as I know there is now WW patent pending.

For your information the construction ala Cascade has been used in chemical industry for many years. I wonder if someone pays a fee to the men or a company who invented this.

[Cathar]

Originally Posted by Hikari

For your information the construction ala Cascade has been used in chemical industry for many years. I wonder if someone pays a fee to the men or a company who invented this.

I guess they would if it were actually true...

[satanicoo]

Originally Posted by Hikari

Fee is necessary only in case of patent - as far as I know there is now WW patent pending.

So that means it is correct? Just because it isnt patented?
So you may rip someone else's work just because he didnt register it?

[Hikari]

Originally Posted by Cathar

I guess they would if it were actually true...

Welcome.
It is true. Probably you haven't tried to check it (the hole procedure is time-consuming, I think that it may take up to 1-2 year).
My experienced collegue is working testing cooling devices (including water coolers) and he admitted that he saw this solution in chemistry.

Moreover WW is an example of so called "channel flow" (I hope that it is good English equivalent), which is widely used.

Of course because of the fact that WW construction is known within next months URIEL will be replaced by other block - we are working on it.

[Cathar]

Hikari, need to distinguish the difference between concept and design. The concepts used in both the White Water and the Cascade have been around for a very long time (~25yrs for the White Water, and ~60yrs for the Cascade). The actual designs themselves of the two blocks are actually fairly unique, as in one couldn't exactly point to any other design that looks just like them. Similar in certain ways, yes. The same, no.

Not that I particularly care any more. I find it amusing watching the jostling that goes on, with claims to "perfect", "best", and "our clone is better than competitor X's clone". I am not interested in arguing with anyone over who owns what design. It's all pointless. I can only say that people reap what they sow.

Best of luck in your "endeavors".

[Hikari]

So we used the concept of channel flow, which was also used in WW and Cascade.

Following variables:
- number of fins
- height
- width
- lenght
- the position of fins (not in the centre of the block)
- groove's dimensions
- sprayer's shape
were designed by our team.

Now tell me is it a reap or development?

And I haven't written that our block is better then other competitors.

[Zogthetroll]

actually, with regard to the resistances of various fittings, two swept 45 fittings will have less resistance than a 90 (if I remeber correctly, the resistances are added, I don't feel like dragging out my fluid mechanics book right now to check though). Check out This article on maximizing flow rates for a reference for the commonly used fittings. yeah, I totally agree about glass. If I end up putting a window in my case (something i'm still debating whether it will fit with the overall design or not) it'll definately be glass, especially since I have the tools to cut it, not to mention access to some really cool stained glass if I want to go that route.

[Hikari]

Yes, I have read the article a few months ago, but nothing is better than just a hose without elbows. Maybe if I can get 3 sizes of hoses I will buy a tygon.

Please notice that my pump has a head of 8m and max. water flow amounting to 6,000 l/h so don't have to worry about the flow.

I had a good situation because I have had an acces to CNC watercutting mashine. Water + sand under a pressure of 4000 atm. can cut everything - both steel and glass. The only thing was to make a model of glass and hole in side panel.

[satanicoo]

2 things:

Originally Posted by Hikari

Please notice that my pump has a head of 8m and max. water flow amounting to 6,000 l/h so don't have to worry about the flow.

No.
Its because of the pump that you will get higher flows, and at higher flows, that kind of problems on restrictive tubes/elbows become of higher and higher importance.
That way you will crush your pump to extreme situations, causing her to overheat, overheat the water and diminish the resulting eficiency (with you are looking for).
Not to mention the higher probability of a pump failure.

With a small enouf pump, with 1/2" tubing you could probably dismiss the elbows, since at the low flow the water is pumped, the restriction would be so small that it would be ignorable.

But not with big pumps.

Originally Posted by Hikari

Now tell me is it a reap or development?

Do as you wish. Say what you want.
But admit it is a clone.
The first versions were 9 fins. Your new one is 7.
"Designed by your team?" C'mon.

Admit it.

But this is the last post on the subject. The most direct looser is Dtek.
Let them do anything if they wish.

Peace out.