Hard Drive block.

[pippin88]

Got half way through a hard drive waterblock on the weekend.

Couldn't go any further as I needed to come home and do a few little bits of measurement (Pipe length on motherboard side).

I've sort of had this design in mind for a while, but this really inspired me to finally do it: http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=9175




I plan to have the pipe on the motherboard side come back over to the other pipe to make pipe runs easy.

[lolito_fr]

Yay! nice one pippin!
Don't forget the brasso

[pippin88]

Originally Posted by lolito_fr

Yay! nice one pippin!
Don't forget the brasso

I've measured up where the elbow needs to go. So soon I'll do that and finish it off nice and shiny.

I plan to suspend it from the top part of the casing of an old CD drive. Maybe even use a bit of sound deadening foam.

[MC]

nice Idea...just to make it easier, you could use street-90's and omit the second solder joint. Less joints=less leak possibilities. I have been toying with the idea of water cooling ram, similar in design to what you have there...has anyone tried that?

-MC

[|kbn|]

Nice. Im going to make a silmilar hdd cooler soon.
I was going to try w/c ram but with two double sided sticks its difficult. There isnt enough space using 1/2" or 15mm pipe. I was going to try with 6mm OD copperpipe but neer got time.

[MadHacker]

Originally Posted by pippin88

Got half way through a hard drive waterblock on the weekend.

Couldn't go any further as I needed to come home and do a few little bits of measurement (Pipe length on motherboard side).

I've sort of had this design in mind for a while, but this really inspired me to finally do it: http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=9175

I plan to have the pipe on the motherboard side come back over to the other pipe to make pipe runs easy.

Nice Job so far.. looks good...
I plan on making a HD cooler same style...
I have the same inspiration, thanks lolito_fr
have my copper on order.
how thick is your copper plate? what size did you use for your pipe?
I ordered 0.108" (12 ga.) copper plate plan to use 1/2"ID pipe.

Originally Posted by MC

just to make it easier, you could use street-90's and omit the second solder joint. Less joints=less leak possibilities.

good idea... I have never soldered pipe together before...
the only experiance i have in solding is electronics and that is the bare minimal...

"If at once you don't succeed... try try again...
If then you don't succeed... erase all evidence that you have tried..."
so if this post becomes empty... I have fails and erased all evidence that I have tried.

[pippin88]

Copper plate is either 2 or 3mm.
My piping is 1/2" pipe. I actually milled a flat on it to make it easy to solder.
Not sure what street-90's are?

Once you have the technique right, soldering pipe is dead easy. My technique is:
Make sure joints are quite clean.
Place flux on the pipe and put in the elbow/whatever.
Heat the joint, occaisonally touching the solder to it until it begins to melt.
Then just touch the solder to the joint and it should be sucked in and run around the joint.

I silver soldered mine, as I just got a MAPP torch,

If you do it right you get no leaks.

[MadHacker]

Originally Posted by pippin88

I silver soldered mine, as I just got a MAPP torch,

If you do it right you get no leaks.

I have a torch head.. that connects directly to a propane tank...
duno if it any good for this...
I only have used it to do Hot knives a few years ago...

is silver solder better?

[pippin88]

The propane torch will be fine for normal solder but won't get hot enough for silver solder. Silver solder is stronger, has a higher melting point and should resist corrosion a bit better and conduct heat a little better.

[G33k]

Nice job pippin - I built something pretty similar a while back :



It's amazing how such simple solutions are so effective ...and btw, you can solder with silver solder using a regular propane torch - I've done it! Maybe the silver solder I have is a weaker brand?

[MadHacker]

Originally Posted by G33k

Nice job pippin - I built something pretty similar a while back :



It's amazing how such simple solutions are so effective

Looks real good...
but i think it could use some polishing...

Originally Posted by G33k

...and btw, you can solder with silver solder using a regular propane torch - I've done it! Maybe the silver solder I have is a weaker brand?

I'll get some silver solder then and try....
i think my copper plate will be in today or tomorrow...

[G33k]

Originally Posted by MadHacker

Looks real good...
but i think it could use some polishing...

Yeah, you're right, but since it spends all it's life wrapped in foam, why bother?

Originally Posted by MadHacker

I'll get some silver solder then and try....
i think my copper plate will be in today or tomorrow...

Good luck!

[pippin88]

Originally Posted by G33k

It's amazing how such simple solutions are so effective ...and btw, you can solder with silver solder using a regular propane torch - I've done it! Maybe the silver solder I have is a weaker brand?

I tried with my propane torch, and it would not melt the silver solder, just could not get the copper hot enough. Holding the flame directly on the solder for a minute would JUST melt it.

There are many different grades of silver solder however.

[MadHacker]

Originally Posted by pippin88

I tried with my propane torch, and it would not melt the silver solder, just could not get the copper hot enough. Holding the flame directly on the solder for a minute would JUST melt it.

There are many different grades of silver solder however.

I'll check what they have at the hardware store... and C if they know anytning about what my torch can do... :shrug:

also my copper plates came in...

[Gooserider]

pippin88:
Copper plate is either 2 or 3mm.

Depends on where you're from... Stateside it is usually either in fractional inch or 1/100'ths inch thickness for plate, and guage # for sheet.

My piping is 1/2" pipe. I actually milled a flat on it to make it easy to solder.

Doesn't hurt anything, but probably not needed. I would also probably use tubing rather than pipe, though it doesn't make much difference. In theory the tube would be less restrictive since it has the same OD, but thinner walls giving a slightly larger ID.

Not sure what street-90's are?

a 'street-90' or other 'street' fitting is one with one of the ends the same OD size as the pipe itself as opposed to the usual socket having an ID that matches the pipe OD.

Once you have the technique right, soldering pipe is dead easy. My technique is:
Make sure joints are quite clean.
Place flux on the pipe and put in the elbow/whatever.
Heat the joint, occaisonally touching the solder to it until it begins to melt.
Then just touch the solder to the joint and it should be sucked in and run around the joint.

Good summary of the technique, although it is best to put flux on BOTH parts. It is also important to note that the parts should be a SNUG fit with just enough room to wick the solder into the joint. When fastening parts that don't have good mechanical connections (like putting the tubes onto the plates) the two peices should fit together as tightly as possible with few or no gaps. Clamping them together (after cleaning and putting flux on each peice) is a good idea.

I silver soldered mine, as I just got a MAPP torch,

A bit of overkill - either regular lead solder, or the newer lead-free 'non-toxic' plumbing solders will do just as well, and work with propane which is much less expensive and easier to come by. The difference in corrosion resistance and thermal conductivity is not enough to notice if the joints are made properly.

A note on solder types...

1. True "Silver Solder" - contains real silver, and is relatively expensive, normally used only for Jewelry work and certain specialized electronic soldering. Needs higher temps than straight air/propane torches can provide.

2. "Plumbing Safe" solders - I believe they are mostly tin, with a small amount of antimony, and contain no lead. Most commonly used on plumbing, especially anything to do with drinking water systems. Legally required in most jurisdictions. Needs a slightly higher temp than lead based solders, but works fine with a propane torch. Even though it doesn't contain silver, is sometimes referred to as 'silver solder'

3. Lead based solders - Primarily lead, can be toxic if misused (as in lead poisoning) ILLEGAL to use on drinking water plumbing in most jurisdictions (and unhealthy in any) can be used on electronics or electrical connections only if used with ROSIN based fluxes, can be used on non-drinking water plumbing and other copper work with acid core fluxes. Lowest temperature requirements, which can be useful when working on heater core type rads as using this type of solder reduces the risk of desoldering other rad parts.

If you do it right you get no leaks.

Most important note of all - the ability to make a leak free joint is critical! If you get a leak, don't try to seal it with silicone or other goop. Instead, reheat the joint, take it apart, fix the problem, and redo things properly. Most common problems are either poor joint fitups or dirt / moisture contamination and inadequate use of flux.

Gooserider

[pippin88]

Nice post Gooserider.

I should have clarified in my soldering. I actually soldered the elbows and pipes (I've forgotten the difference between Tube and pipe. Is Tube the one measured on ID, and pipe on OD?) together with silver solder. The plate and pipes are just joined by normal solder. May not have been actual silver solder, but it comes in thin long sticks, and is sold by the kilo and wasn't cheap.

I milled the flat just to make it easy to solder, rather than any heat conduction. It meant it didn't roll or have to be clamped.

[MadHacker]

Originally Posted by pippin88

Nice post Gooserider.

I agree.

Originally Posted by pippin88

I milled the flat just to make it easy to solder, rather than any heat conduction. It meant it didn't roll or have to be clamped.

i took a grinder to mine... and got it flat so it wouldn't roll...
then took vise grips and clamped it to gether with that....
my solder job doesn't look great... have a few solder blops that I managed to somewhat remove after... but it still left a silver like shiny spot on the copper in spots... not bad for the first time with a torch.
I'll take pictures of it when i'm done...
have yet to put on the mounting bracket so i can bolt it into the CDRom cage.
i took 4" of the remaing copper pipe and will cut it length ways and bend it out to make a C shape. one side i will solder to the HD block, the other i will drill and tap.
I'll give it a litle bit of leeway so i kan add some rubber to help minimize the vibrations a bit.

[Gooserider]

pippin88: Nice post Gooserider.

Thanks

I should have clarified in my soldering. I actually soldered the elbows and pipes (I've forgotten the difference between Tube and pipe. Is Tube the one measured on ID, and pipe on OD?) together with silver solder. The plate and pipes are just joined by normal solder. May not have been actual silver solder, but it comes in thin long sticks, and is sold by the kilo and wasn't cheap.

Not sure what sort of solder that would be, perhaps it's a European thing.
Here what is readily available is either the plumbing safe or lead based solders, both of which come in rolls of ~ 1/8" (3mm) 'wire'.

I might have built by doing one stage with lead and the other with plumbing safe to take advantage of the temp difference between the two solders. More likely I would have just used one, and done the plate/tube join first then the plumbing fittings. If you let the parts cool between steps, the plate would have had enough thermal mass that it wouldn't have unsoldered while doing the fittings. Another option is to immerse the parts you don't want soldered in water, or wrap them in a damp rag to keep them cool.

I milled the flat just to make it easy to solder, rather than any heat conduction. It meant it didn't roll or have to be clamped.

That works, and is a good reason, however I probably would have skipped the mill step and used clamps. I would point out that milling the flat is good for getting a uniform cross section, but it would be much harder to get a constant flat if working by hand. An irregular flat would cause problems with gaps between the pipe and the plate. Since the pipe is flat as made not milling it avoids the whole issue.

The difference between Cu Tube and Cu pipe is a bit fuzzy. Typically pipe is defined by ID, with the OD being (obviously) somewhat larger. However the OD sizes have become constant references in order to keep the fitting choices simple, and different grades of Cu pipe and tubing in a given size will all have the same OD so as to use the same set of fittings, and the ID will vary depending on the grade of pipe / tube. However in general, pipe will have slightly thicker walls, and be rigid; while tubing will have thinner walls and be somewhat flexible. Pipe normally doesn't get bent, any bends are made with fittings, and it comes in straight lengths. Tubing can be bent (by hand in small sizes, with appropriate tools in larger ones) and usually comes in coils.

Gooserider

[|kbn|]

The solder probably was less than 5% silver and mostly tin.
Are you using thermal paste of something between the hdd and the copper? or just screwing it in?

[MMZ_TimeLord]

One thing to note for flow considerations... ream out the ends of any copper pipe/tube you cut with a compression cutter as it reduces your inner diameter somewhat.

I tend to make the ends of my copper pipe/tube taper OUT WARD even if I cut it with a hack saw as I want the water flow to be smooth until it gets interrupted with something like #Rotor areas, etc.

[MadHacker]

Originally Posted by MMZ_TimeLord

One thing to note for flow considerations... ream out the ends of any copper pipe/tube you cut with a compression cutter as it reduces your inner diameter somewhat.

what is a compression cutter?
are they cheep?

[Brians256]

Originally Posted by MadHacker

what is a compression cutter?
are they cheep?

I believe this is what MMZ_TimeLord meant: Compression Cutter

They are cheap in comparison to some tools, I guess. I see them at the Grainger's website for about $27, but I'm sure that you could get a cheaper model somewhere else (although it might be less quality). I've seen the midget ones for less than $10 at the local HW store, but they may not have a big enough throat for the tubing you wish to cut, and the smaller ones are harder to use unless you need to cut tubing in a tight location (such as the inside of a refrigerator).

[MadHacker]

Originally Posted by Brians256

I believe this is what MMZ_TimeLord meant: Compression Cutter

They are cheap in comparison to some tools, I guess. I see them at the Grainger's website for about $27, but I'm sure that you could get a cheaper model somewhere else (although it might be less quality). I've seen the midget ones for less than $10 at the local HW store, but they may not have a big enough throat for the tubing you wish to cut, and the smaller ones are harder to use unless you need to cut tubing in a tight location (such as the inside of a refrigerator).

I used a hack saw....
then my trusty pocket knife and some sandpapper to clean up all the shavings and rough stuff in the inside edge...
how much of a difrence would it make in flow?
can't be that much... but i duno...

[MMZ_TimeLord]

The tubing cutters make the ID smaller by about 0.1 or more depending upon the tube size to begin with. If you are using VERY small copper tube 1/4" you will REALLY notice the diameter shrink when you use a tubing cutter as opposed to a hack saw.

Even using a hack saw, I tend to ream out the end with a large counter sink (by hand) so that the ID at end of the tube tapers out to the OD, like so...

 ________________
 \_______________|

  _______________
 /_______________|

[Gooserider]

I also like to flare the ends of a tube out when I'm going to be connecting a hose to it because it acts like sort of an imitation barb, and reduces the chance of the hose coming off.
Gooserider