Any retail rack-mount water cooled cases

Mark_Knecht · 09-26-2002, 05:22 PM

Does anyone know of any retail (Kollance, Innovatek, etc.) water cooled cases?

Thanks,
Mark

chazz469 · 09-30-2002, 10:44 PM

What are you looking for (1U, 2U, 4U) and why? I vaguely remember seeing something somewhere, but I don't remember who it was. If I can find it again I'll post it up.

Mark_Knecht · 10-01-2002, 05:43 PM

chazz,
Hi. I'm doing audio recording under Linux & Windows. I've got a small rack of audio equipment. I may be getting on a plane in December to do some work in New York and will need to take all this stuff with me. It would be great to put the PC in the rack with the other equipment. 1/2/4U are all probably OK. Obviously smaller is better as long as the cooling works well and the machine is very quiet. Probably a bigger issue is the depth of the case as these racks aren't real deep.

I don't need the liquid itself to be portable. I can drain and reload the machine as needed. It will sit in one place in NY for 2-3 weeks.

If this sort of solution isn't out there then I'll probably just go with a Koolance as I need to do something pretty soon to get ready for this possibility. I haven't done water cooled before, but it's time...

Thanks,
Mark

airspirit · 10-02-2002, 05:14 PM

Dude, this is tricky. There is almost no space in those suckers for watercooling. I'm going to go out on a limb here, and if any of the more established guys want to tear at it, I'd be more than happy for the input.

First, in a stereo component rack, you're talking short/wide/deep. A 1U system would be ideal, but it would be next to impossible to fit any watercooling equipment in it. A 2U case might be the smallest you can go with. Even then, though, you will have absolutely no chance of going self contained. The problem, though, is there is no way you'll fit a 4U case in a stereo component rack. The solution is to build your box out of two 2U cases: one for components, one for the cooling gear. Set up your pump, res, radiator, and such in the top case, and run hoses out the back of the top case into the back of the bottom case and in to your waterblock. Ideally, you'll want to rig your setup so that the internal water components will go to hose barbs on the outside of the case that are each controlled by a butterfly (on/off) valve for ease of assembly and disassembly (shut off all four valves and disconnect the outside hoses: little water will be lost, and your components will NOT have any spill on them ... you will NOT have to disassemble your functional 2U computer w/waterblock to flush/clean the system ... that would be a b!tch). The upside is that you'd have a watercooled machine that is portable and modular in design. The downside is the two hoses snaking between them. I can't think of any other way to do it that it will fit in an audio rack.

Did that help?

airspirit · 10-02-2002, 05:16 PM

Oh, and I believe that 2U cases are 60cm deep (about 27.5 inches, I think). You can get the size of the cases at any online case store (look at pricewatch and you'll find every case imaginable).

#Rotor · 10-02-2002, 09:05 PM

I'm right in the middle of developing the blocks needed for extreme high performance U1 Athlon SMP goodness...

a U1 only gives you 43mm +- from top to bottom...

believe me everything needs to be re-designed, fitting placement, fittings size, retention...

the end result is going to sound something like.....

10 U1 SMP Athlon based units, with a U4 as the cooling station.... neatly stacked, and Clustered in Linux using Mosix load management solutions.

Mark_Knecht · 10-03-2002, 09:54 AM

Hi,
Thanks for the answers so far. Probably you all need more info to help me decide if this is even possible.

First, this isn't a 'stereo equipment rack'. It's a standard 19" rack that can hold networking equipment. It's short, made for DJ's and the like. and on wheels. I've got maybe 5 sound modules (guitar processors, drum machines, preamps, etc.) in the rack right now. I have about 8 inches on the bottome the way things are configured.

Second, the PC that will go in this rack must hold multiple PCI cards. These cards interface to high-end audio equipment. For that reason, a rack mountable desktop case would be a perfect fit in terms of handing the cards that will go in. MB would likely be something like an Asus A7V266/333 or A7M266-D. 5-6 PCI slots, all slots used.

I don't think the 1U/2U form factor will work because of the card requirements. Should have thought of that before.

Anyway, hope this helps. However, I've never done water cooling, so if nothign exists retail, then I'm doign water coolign outside the rack in a standard tower type case.

thanks,
Mark

bigben2k · 10-03-2002, 10:34 AM

The PCI cards can be mounted sideways, with a riser. How many do you have?

airspirit · 10-03-2002, 01:23 PM

A 2U case will support 2/3 PCI cards on risers. A 3U or larger case will support the cards standing normally off the mobo. 3U is a bastard size, so good luck finding one. Remember, for every universal measurement unit (U), you are looking at 1.75". A 4U case will take up coming up on half of your entire rack (7 inches). Something to think about, especially since it would be exceedingly difficult (but doable if you're really creative and don't mind massive case modding) to cram a computer AND a WC system in a 4U case together. It is easier to do it with two 2U cases, since you don't have the computer components interfering with your WC equipment. If you can find a 3U case, and you externally mount your WC equipment in a separate 2U case, it would total 8.75 inches in hieght, and it would be much easier to maintain.

airspirit · 10-03-2002, 01:43 PM

The retail case that was speculated about previously was made by Koolance. They no longer make them, leaving the market bare of WC server cases. If I was you, I'd try to find a place where you can purchase a 3U case and take a peek at a 2U case to try to plan a move before buying them. Alternatively, and I don't know why I didn't think of this before, you could go with a 5U case and you would definitely be able to go self contained. A 5U should put you at 10.5" of usable space. All of the PCI cards will easily fit, as well as plenty of room for 2-3 drives AND fit your WC system inside. You'd need to use a small pump (not a big Eheim), and you probably wouldn't have room for a res unless you were really creative. The only modding you would have to do on this:
http://www.electroseller.com/Merchan...tegory_Code=5U
case is to pull out some drive racks toward the left side (facing the front of it) and you'd be able to fit your rad there. The pump could be mounted next to it between the rad and the CD drives or whatnot. Alternately, the pump can be mounted to the top of the case OVER the motherboard (how is that for looney?). This would take very little modding to do. How does that sound?

gmat · 10-03-2002, 01:52 PM

Wait, there are those guys who make heatpiped 1U racks, who were they ? Saw the link on these forums.
On VH cool case gallery i saw a 19" 2x2U config with the PC in one enclosure and WC equipment in the other one. So this is definitely possible.
(going to look for those watercooled racks, i saw them i'm positive about that)

(edit) yes!!! Found em:
http://www.calmpc.com/english/product-2-e.htm
(reedit) hm my bad it's a koolance look-a-like.. hold on i've not given up.

* Not watercooled, but good already:
http://www.carillondirect.com

* Ha here they are:
http://www.signum-data.de/english/index_eng.htm

airspirit · 10-03-2002, 02:40 PM

Those calm-PC kits are dangerous. If you are shooting for cooling proficiency, they are much worse than air cooling as they require the temperature to stay above 50C to maintain the phase change balance. I've read many bad reviews on those kits (one was on amdmb.com recently, I think).

airspirit · 10-03-2002, 02:45 PM

The signum data kit looks like it kicks ... problem is that it looks 1U and would limit you to 2xPCI via riser. I'm going to continue looking around, but I'm really thinking that this is going to be a home-built project if you want it in a rack-mount case.

gmat · 10-03-2002, 02:52 PM

I think the guy here (Mark) doesnt give a damn about temps, as long as the PC works. He wont overclock it or try below-zero experiences. He just wants a totally silent rack.
Anyway the signum data 1U unit would be OK if Mark needed only 2 PCI cards...
I dont know if one could mod the case (ie 'open' the top) to accomodate a 5-6 PCI riser card.

In short if you want a turn-key solution, try carillondirect.com, or else the 2x2U solution seems to be the easier one.
Mark you'll fins lots of people like you (ie audio pros) lurking here:
http://www.silentpcreview.com/
Try to post in their forums as well, you might get some answers.

(edit) or you could buy multiple signum data units and set em up in cluster or a simple network.

airspirit · 10-03-2002, 05:16 PM

You can't open the top of the Signum Data units to get the 5-6 card effect: they use micro ATX mobos ... they won't have enough PCI slots even if you could stand them up. I think you would need three of those suckers to accomodate that many cards. If you aren't looking for extreme cooling, then there are ways to fit everything into ONE 2U or 3U case by using BI Micro style rads and micro-inline pumps combined with a block that has side barbs. In http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/sho...&threadid=3321 they show a micro-inline pump. Combine those, and you'll fit in a 3U easily, though you'll be looking at air temps ... but if that's no biggie, why worry? If you are looking for total silence, put it all except the rad in a 3U and use a massive radiator mounted to the top outside of the case for passive cooling. You'd have a completely passive unit. You'd want to run a P4, methinks, for the lower heat outputs.

Mark_Knecht · 10-07-2002, 12:33 PM

Hey all,
Thanks for all the replies. The topic looked like it had dies out a bit and I went away. I happily returned to lots of good info.

gmat is basically correct - I don't really care about temps, I do not intend to overclock, but figure I have a better chance of doing it if I ever want to being water cooled. For DAW's (digital audio workstations) I need to be able to choose whatever MB I need, and depending on what's on the MB, I probably need to be able to install 4-5 cards (graphics, 1394 OR a second EIDE controller, ethernet and 1-2 sound cards) Only the graphics adapter tends to burn power, get hot and possibly need cooling, but graphics performance isn't much of an isuue with this applicaiton. For these reasons I don't think the PCI riser card idea is going to work for me. Sure would be nice though.

I had pretty much decided just to give up on this box being rack mounted and go with a Koolance case out since this is my first W/C'ed project, but then I read around here that they are over priced and not that good. Is this pan just for the overclocker/gaming/high-end applciation space? I've heard of others using Koolance for DAWs and being apparently happy.

I'm also interested in this new EXOS product they are releasing. (http://koolance.com/products/ext-a01/) I don't know the price or whether I can get one and have it running by late November.

Again, thanks for all your inputs. This is an interesting topic. I appreciate all the time peoiple have spent helpiung me learn a bit.

Cheers,
Mark

bigben2k · 10-07-2002, 12:46 PM

ACtually, if an overclock is not what you're shooting for, a Koolance might work very well.

On the other hand, I'd give serious thought about what #rotor has to offer. add a BI Micro (or bigger, if you can fit it), a small pump (maxijet?), and you'd be all set.

gmat · 10-07-2002, 02:32 PM

I've not read any serious review that points out the noise level of a koolance case. But the array of fans at the top doesn't inspire me much...
Mark check that signum data PC. If you can go with a riser card and 2 PCI audio cards, and everything else on the mobo (ie integrated graphics, ethernet and 2 EIDE controllers) it's your solution. Many micro ATX have these, i think you can find flex ATX ones as well.
Or else, the 3U rack with a BI micro looks like an interesting challenge...

Mark_Knecht · 10-08-2002, 05:27 PM

BB2K and gmat,
Thanks again for all the ideas. I think I will just take my time on this. The Koolance is probably OK noise wise, but like you gmat I don't like the fans on top. I understand they run at 3 speeds, and mostly will go at the very lowest which is very quiet, but over time all those fans are just another failure point. Also, it's still not rack mounted which was my goal.

The next issue was cost. Koolance obsoleted their smaller case, so now I have to buy a full tower that's 2 feet tall, plus all their other high priced stuff. Just to get inthe game looks like >$400 with shipping and more if I buy it locally and pay sales tax. I just can't believe I have to spend all that money. (I can still get the old one off the web for a while, but I decided not to.)

I'm going to take some time, scope out what you guys are doing, and look for more of a home brew way to go. I'd be really happy to have the pump outside the chassis and just feed a send and return tube into a normal case, sort of like the new Koolance Exo thing seems to do.

For December I'm just going air cooled with what I've got and spend my time learnign from you guys before I rush out there and waste my money.

You guys are killer for getting me pointed in good directions. Thanks for you insights and time spent with a newbie.

I think my next questions will be about users groups or some sort of group here in the SF Bay Area where people work on these things together. I need to find some people doing this and see the boxes face to face.

Cheers,
Mark

gmat · 10-10-2002, 06:49 AM

First, you should set a precise set of goals. To give an example, i'll assume that you do not care about overclocking, extreme temps or 3D gaming, but want silence (often needed in a studio...)
The solution here would be:
- An integrated mobo, with sound, gfx, and ethernet all onboard.
- (1) Either a microATX format for case & mobo, in which case you'll have to get a riser card for the 2 PCI slots
- (2) Or a full ATX format, that is the rack solution.

Let's explore (1):
- turnkey solutions exist, they often involve heatpipes. No 'real' watercooling here, but you'll get a perfectly silent PC, if you get a silent Barracuda HDD.
- DIY solutions - microATX cases are easy to come by, heatpipes are not. That would involve a real rackmount case, and real watercooling stuff. Maybe a 1046, a BIX, one PAPST 8412 NGL, and any CPU block that fits. 3/8" all around.

Now (2):
- turnkey solutions, rather expensive, not watercooled (for what i know)
- DIY: a 3U case, with a standard ATX mobo, try to get one with gfx & ethernet & so on so you save space around PCI slots. A 1048, a BIX, blocks for CPU & NB (you'll need it, likely), and decoupled mounting (silentdrive suspension) for the HDD. Again a PAPST to cool down the rad. 1/2" could fit, get some elbows (round ones from Eheim are excellent) and/or Tygon for sharp turns. You can mount the rad behind unused PCI & AGP slots, the pump will fit horizontally in front of it. Get either a very quiet PSU (Seasonic, Q-tech) or a fanless one (TK power,RSG electronics,Deltatronic). You can even get rid of the rad fan by taking a huge rad (titan, or bigger) and mounting it externally, for example on top of your rack chassis, and use convection only. Zero fan, zero noise (well, the pump and HDD...)

DigitalChaos · 10-11-2002, 08:36 AM

try the new external system koolance is making.
it is comming out oct 25

http://koolance.com/products/ext-a01/

mkosem · 10-11-2002, 09:06 AM

when koolance first whent public they had 2 rack-mounted cases on their site. They seem to hane never existed.

--Matt

09-26-2002, 05:22 PM	#1
Mark_Knecht Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Los Gatos, Ca Posts: 6	Any retail rack-mount water cooled cases Does anyone know of any retail (Kollance, Innovatek, etc.) water cooled cases? Thanks, Mark

09-30-2002, 10:44 PM	#2
chazz469 Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 150	What are you looking for (1U, 2U, 4U) and why? I vaguely remember seeing something somewhere, but I don't remember who it was. If I can find it again I'll post it up. __________________ "I believe that the moment is near when by a procedure of active paranoiac thought, it will be possible to systematize confusion to the total discrediting of the world of reality" -Salvador Dali AMD XP1600+ @1790MHz and rethinking my cooling.... MAZE3 --> DD Cooler Cube --> Eheim 1048 512MB PC2700 DDR MSI KT3 Ultra-ARU 2x 20GB Maxtor in RAID 0 1x 30GB Maxtor --> WinXP GF3 Ti200 @ 240/499

10-02-2002, 05:14 PM	#4
airspirit Been /.'d... have you? Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,986	Dude, this is tricky. There is almost no space in those suckers for watercooling. I'm going to go out on a limb here, and if any of the more established guys want to tear at it, I'd be more than happy for the input. First, in a stereo component rack, you're talking short/wide/deep. A 1U system would be ideal, but it would be next to impossible to fit any watercooling equipment in it. A 2U case might be the smallest you can go with. Even then, though, you will have absolutely no chance of going self contained. The problem, though, is there is no way you'll fit a 4U case in a stereo component rack. The solution is to build your box out of two 2U cases: one for components, one for the cooling gear. Set up your pump, res, radiator, and such in the top case, and run hoses out the back of the top case into the back of the bottom case and in to your waterblock. Ideally, you'll want to rig your setup so that the internal water components will go to hose barbs on the outside of the case that are each controlled by a butterfly (on/off) valve for ease of assembly and disassembly (shut off all four valves and disconnect the outside hoses: little water will be lost, and your components will NOT have any spill on them ... you will NOT have to disassemble your functional 2U computer w/waterblock to flush/clean the system ... that would be a b!tch). The upside is that you'd have a watercooled machine that is portable and modular in design. The downside is the two hoses snaking between them. I can't think of any other way to do it that it will fit in an audio rack. Did that help? __________________ #!/bin/sh {who;} {last;} {pause;} {grep;} {touch;} {unzip;} mount /dev/girl -t {wet;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} echo yes yes yes {yes;} umount {/dev/girl;zip;} rm -rf {wet.spot;} {sleep;} finger: permission denied

10-02-2002, 05:16 PM	#5
airspirit Been /.'d... have you? Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,986	Oh, and I believe that 2U cases are 60cm deep (about 27.5 inches, I think). You can get the size of the cases at any online case store (look at pricewatch and you'll find every case imaginable). __________________ #!/bin/sh {who;} {last;} {pause;} {grep;} {touch;} {unzip;} mount /dev/girl -t {wet;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} echo yes yes yes {yes;} umount {/dev/girl;zip;} rm -rf {wet.spot;} {sleep;} finger: permission denied

10-02-2002, 09:05 PM	#6
#Rotor Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dione, sector 4s1256 Posts: 852	I'm right in the middle of developing the blocks needed for extreme high performance U1 Athlon SMP goodness... a U1 only gives you 43mm +- from top to bottom... believe me everything needs to be re-designed, fitting placement, fittings size, retention... the end result is going to sound something like..... 10 U1 SMP Athlon based units, with a U4 as the cooling station.... neatly stacked, and Clustered in Linux using Mosix load management solutions. __________________ There is no Spoon....

10-01-2002, 05:43 PM	#3
Mark_Knecht Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Los Gatos, Ca Posts: 6	chazz, Hi. I'm doing audio recording under Linux & Windows. I've got a small rack of audio equipment. I may be getting on a plane in December to do some work in New York and will need to take all this stuff with me. It would be great to put the PC in the rack with the other equipment. 1/2/4U are all probably OK. Obviously smaller is better as long as the cooling works well and the machine is very quiet. Probably a bigger issue is the depth of the case as these racks aren't real deep. I don't need the liquid itself to be portable. I can drain and reload the machine as needed. It will sit in one place in NY for 2-3 weeks. If this sort of solution isn't out there then I'll probably just go with a Koolance as I need to do something pretty soon to get ready for this possibility. I haven't done water cooled before, but it's time... Thanks, Mark

10-03-2002, 09:54 AM	#7
Mark_Knecht Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Los Gatos, Ca Posts: 6	Hi, Thanks for the answers so far. Probably you all need more info to help me decide if this is even possible. First, this isn't a 'stereo equipment rack'. It's a standard 19" rack that can hold networking equipment. It's short, made for DJ's and the like. and on wheels. I've got maybe 5 sound modules (guitar processors, drum machines, preamps, etc.) in the rack right now. I have about 8 inches on the bottome the way things are configured. Second, the PC that will go in this rack must hold multiple PCI cards. These cards interface to high-end audio equipment. For that reason, a rack mountable desktop case would be a perfect fit in terms of handing the cards that will go in. MB would likely be something like an Asus A7V266/333 or A7M266-D. 5-6 PCI slots, all slots used. I don't think the 1U/2U form factor will work because of the card requirements. Should have thought of that before. Anyway, hope this helps. However, I've never done water cooling, so if nothign exists retail, then I'm doign water coolign outside the rack in a standard tower type case. thanks, Mark

10-03-2002, 10:34 AM	#8
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	The PCI cards can be mounted sideways, with a riser. How many do you have? __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

10-03-2002, 01:23 PM	#9
airspirit Been /.'d... have you? Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,986	A 2U case will support 2/3 PCI cards on risers. A 3U or larger case will support the cards standing normally off the mobo. 3U is a bastard size, so good luck finding one. Remember, for every universal measurement unit (U), you are looking at 1.75". A 4U case will take up coming up on half of your entire rack (7 inches). Something to think about, especially since it would be exceedingly difficult (but doable if you're really creative and don't mind massive case modding) to cram a computer AND a WC system in a 4U case together. It is easier to do it with two 2U cases, since you don't have the computer components interfering with your WC equipment. If you can find a 3U case, and you externally mount your WC equipment in a separate 2U case, it would total 8.75 inches in hieght, and it would be much easier to maintain. __________________ #!/bin/sh {who;} {last;} {pause;} {grep;} {touch;} {unzip;} mount /dev/girl -t {wet;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} echo yes yes yes {yes;} umount {/dev/girl;zip;} rm -rf {wet.spot;} {sleep;} finger: permission denied

10-03-2002, 01:43 PM	#10
airspirit Been /.'d... have you? Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,986	The retail case that was speculated about previously was made by Koolance. They no longer make them, leaving the market bare of WC server cases. If I was you, I'd try to find a place where you can purchase a 3U case and take a peek at a 2U case to try to plan a move before buying them. Alternatively, and I don't know why I didn't think of this before, you could go with a 5U case and you would definitely be able to go self contained. A 5U should put you at 10.5" of usable space. All of the PCI cards will easily fit, as well as plenty of room for 2-3 drives AND fit your WC system inside. You'd need to use a small pump (not a big Eheim), and you probably wouldn't have room for a res unless you were really creative. The only modding you would have to do on this: http://www.electroseller.com/Merchan...tegory_Code=5U case is to pull out some drive racks toward the left side (facing the front of it) and you'd be able to fit your rad there. The pump could be mounted next to it between the rad and the CD drives or whatnot. Alternately, the pump can be mounted to the top of the case OVER the motherboard (how is that for looney?). This would take very little modding to do. How does that sound? __________________ #!/bin/sh {who;} {last;} {pause;} {grep;} {touch;} {unzip;} mount /dev/girl -t {wet;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} echo yes yes yes {yes;} umount {/dev/girl;zip;} rm -rf {wet.spot;} {sleep;} finger: permission denied

10-03-2002, 01:52 PM	#11
gmat Thermophile Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: France Posts: 1,221	Wait, there are those guys who make heatpiped 1U racks, who were they ? Saw the link on these forums. On VH cool case gallery i saw a 19" 2x2U config with the PC in one enclosure and WC equipment in the other one. So this is definitely possible. (going to look for those watercooled racks, i saw them i'm positive about that) (edit) yes!!! Found em: http://www.calmpc.com/english/product-2-e.htm (reedit) hm my bad it's a koolance look-a-like.. hold on i've not given up. * Not watercooled, but good already: http://www.carillondirect.com * Ha here they are: http://www.signum-data.de/english/index_eng.htm Last edited by gmat; 10-03-2002 at 02:10 PM.

10-03-2002, 02:40 PM	#12
airspirit Been /.'d... have you? Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,986	Those calm-PC kits are dangerous. If you are shooting for cooling proficiency, they are much worse than air cooling as they require the temperature to stay above 50C to maintain the phase change balance. I've read many bad reviews on those kits (one was on amdmb.com recently, I think). __________________ #!/bin/sh {who;} {last;} {pause;} {grep;} {touch;} {unzip;} mount /dev/girl -t {wet;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} echo yes yes yes {yes;} umount {/dev/girl;zip;} rm -rf {wet.spot;} {sleep;} finger: permission denied

10-03-2002, 02:45 PM	#13
airspirit Been /.'d... have you? Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,986	The signum data kit looks like it kicks ... problem is that it looks 1U and would limit you to 2xPCI via riser. I'm going to continue looking around, but I'm really thinking that this is going to be a home-built project if you want it in a rack-mount case. __________________ #!/bin/sh {who;} {last;} {pause;} {grep;} {touch;} {unzip;} mount /dev/girl -t {wet;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} echo yes yes yes {yes;} umount {/dev/girl;zip;} rm -rf {wet.spot;} {sleep;} finger: permission denied

10-03-2002, 02:52 PM	#14
gmat Thermophile Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: France Posts: 1,221	I think the guy here (Mark) doesnt give a damn about temps, as long as the PC works. He wont overclock it or try below-zero experiences. He just wants a totally silent rack. Anyway the signum data 1U unit would be OK if Mark needed only 2 PCI cards... I dont know if one could mod the case (ie 'open' the top) to accomodate a 5-6 PCI riser card. In short if you want a turn-key solution, try carillondirect.com, or else the 2x2U solution seems to be the easier one. Mark you'll fins lots of people like you (ie audio pros) lurking here: http://www.silentpcreview.com/ Try to post in their forums as well, you might get some answers. (edit) or you could buy multiple signum data units and set em up in cluster or a simple network. Last edited by gmat; 10-03-2002 at 02:57 PM.

10-03-2002, 05:16 PM	#15
airspirit Been /.'d... have you? Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,986	You can't open the top of the Signum Data units to get the 5-6 card effect: they use micro ATX mobos ... they won't have enough PCI slots even if you could stand them up. I think you would need three of those suckers to accomodate that many cards. If you aren't looking for extreme cooling, then there are ways to fit everything into ONE 2U or 3U case by using BI Micro style rads and micro-inline pumps combined with a block that has side barbs. In http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/sho...&threadid=3321 they show a micro-inline pump. Combine those, and you'll fit in a 3U easily, though you'll be looking at air temps ... but if that's no biggie, why worry? If you are looking for total silence, put it all except the rad in a 3U and use a massive radiator mounted to the top outside of the case for passive cooling. You'd have a completely passive unit. You'd want to run a P4, methinks, for the lower heat outputs. __________________ #!/bin/sh {who;} {last;} {pause;} {grep;} {touch;} {unzip;} mount /dev/girl -t {wet;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} echo yes yes yes {yes;} umount {/dev/girl;zip;} rm -rf {wet.spot;} {sleep;} finger: permission denied

10-07-2002, 12:33 PM	#16
Mark_Knecht Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Los Gatos, Ca Posts: 6	Hey all, Thanks for all the replies. The topic looked like it had dies out a bit and I went away. I happily returned to lots of good info. gmat is basically correct - I don't really care about temps, I do not intend to overclock, but figure I have a better chance of doing it if I ever want to being water cooled. For DAW's (digital audio workstations) I need to be able to choose whatever MB I need, and depending on what's on the MB, I probably need to be able to install 4-5 cards (graphics, 1394 OR a second EIDE controller, ethernet and 1-2 sound cards) Only the graphics adapter tends to burn power, get hot and possibly need cooling, but graphics performance isn't much of an isuue with this applicaiton. For these reasons I don't think the PCI riser card idea is going to work for me. Sure would be nice though. I had pretty much decided just to give up on this box being rack mounted and go with a Koolance case out since this is my first W/C'ed project, but then I read around here that they are over priced and not that good. Is this pan just for the overclocker/gaming/high-end applciation space? I've heard of others using Koolance for DAWs and being apparently happy. I'm also interested in this new EXOS product they are releasing. (http://koolance.com/products/ext-a01/) I don't know the price or whether I can get one and have it running by late November. Again, thanks for all your inputs. This is an interesting topic. I appreciate all the time peoiple have spent helpiung me learn a bit. Cheers, Mark

10-07-2002, 12:46 PM	#17
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	ACtually, if an overclock is not what you're shooting for, a Koolance might work very well. On the other hand, I'd give serious thought about what #rotor has to offer. add a BI Micro (or bigger, if you can fit it), a small pump (maxijet?), and you'd be all set. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

10-07-2002, 02:32 PM	#18
gmat Thermophile Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: France Posts: 1,221	I've not read any serious review that points out the noise level of a koolance case. But the array of fans at the top doesn't inspire me much... Mark check that signum data PC. If you can go with a riser card and 2 PCI audio cards, and everything else on the mobo (ie integrated graphics, ethernet and 2 EIDE controllers) it's your solution. Many micro ATX have these, i think you can find flex ATX ones as well. Or else, the 3U rack with a BI micro looks like an interesting challenge...

10-08-2002, 05:27 PM	#19
Mark_Knecht Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Los Gatos, Ca Posts: 6	BB2K and gmat, Thanks again for all the ideas. I think I will just take my time on this. The Koolance is probably OK noise wise, but like you gmat I don't like the fans on top. I understand they run at 3 speeds, and mostly will go at the very lowest which is very quiet, but over time all those fans are just another failure point. Also, it's still not rack mounted which was my goal. The next issue was cost. Koolance obsoleted their smaller case, so now I have to buy a full tower that's 2 feet tall, plus all their other high priced stuff. Just to get inthe game looks like >$400 with shipping and more if I buy it locally and pay sales tax. I just can't believe I have to spend all that money. (I can still get the old one off the web for a while, but I decided not to.) I'm going to take some time, scope out what you guys are doing, and look for more of a home brew way to go. I'd be really happy to have the pump outside the chassis and just feed a send and return tube into a normal case, sort of like the new Koolance Exo thing seems to do. For December I'm just going air cooled with what I've got and spend my time learnign from you guys before I rush out there and waste my money. You guys are killer for getting me pointed in good directions. Thanks for you insights and time spent with a newbie. I think my next questions will be about users groups or some sort of group here in the SF Bay Area where people work on these things together. I need to find some people doing this and see the boxes face to face. Cheers, Mark

10-10-2002, 06:49 AM	#20
gmat Thermophile Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: France Posts: 1,221	First, you should set a precise set of goals. To give an example, i'll assume that you do not care about overclocking, extreme temps or 3D gaming, but want silence (often needed in a studio...) The solution here would be: - An integrated mobo, with sound, gfx, and ethernet all onboard. - (1) Either a microATX format for case & mobo, in which case you'll have to get a riser card for the 2 PCI slots - (2) Or a full ATX format, that is the rack solution. Let's explore (1): - turnkey solutions exist, they often involve heatpipes. No 'real' watercooling here, but you'll get a perfectly silent PC, if you get a silent Barracuda HDD. - DIY solutions - microATX cases are easy to come by, heatpipes are not. That would involve a real rackmount case, and real watercooling stuff. Maybe a 1046, a BIX, one PAPST 8412 NGL, and any CPU block that fits. 3/8" all around. Now (2): - turnkey solutions, rather expensive, not watercooled (for what i know) - DIY: a 3U case, with a standard ATX mobo, try to get one with gfx & ethernet & so on so you save space around PCI slots. A 1048, a BIX, blocks for CPU & NB (you'll need it, likely), and decoupled mounting (silentdrive suspension) for the HDD. Again a PAPST to cool down the rad. 1/2" could fit, get some elbows (round ones from Eheim are excellent) and/or Tygon for sharp turns. You can mount the rad behind unused PCI & AGP slots, the pump will fit horizontally in front of it. Get either a very quiet PSU (Seasonic, Q-tech) or a fanless one (TK power,RSG electronics,Deltatronic). You can even get rid of the rad fan by taking a huge rad (titan, or bigger) and mounting it externally, for example on top of your rack chassis, and use convection only. Zero fan, zero noise (well, the pump and HDD...)

10-11-2002, 08:36 AM	#21
DigitalChaos Cooling Savant Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Waukesha, Wi Posts: 698	try the new external system koolance is making. it is comming out oct 25 http://koolance.com/products/ext-a01/ __________________ http://www.digitalsimplicity.com/eatme/

10-11-2002, 09:06 AM	#22
mkosem Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2001 Location: here Posts: 494	when koolance first whent public they had 2 rack-mounted cases on their site. They seem to hane never existed. --Matt __________________ If you can't cool it, blow it up!! http://www.mattkosem.com

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