No More Aluminum!

jaydee · 02-07-2003, 03:55 PM

I removed one of my AL water blocks a while back and replaced it with my REV. 2.0 copper block. I took that AL block to work to day to clean it out and sand blast it. Once cleaned out I noticed BAD corrosion on the top and the base. Almost all the way through on the base.

Will post a pics when I can. This is a case of the battery effect plain and simple. That's what I get for useing brass barbs with a AL block. I only used it for less than 2 months 24/7!

I am sure this can be prevented by not using brass barbs, and better anti-corrosion stuff. And better yet anodizing (which isn't an option). I just used windshield washer fluid.

Anyway, I am moving on to Copper. Going to beef up my mill and use my drill press to make Copper blocks from now on. Just as well anyway. All the heater cores I use are brass and the barbs I use are brass. Just aswell make it all get along. If I waited another month I may have had a serious leakage problem through the base of that block!

After my cable internet gets hooked up today I am going to remove my aluminum Lemon Block and replace it with either a Copper block or just an air cooler for now. I have a decent Copper block made up, but I just need to make a new top for it.

Would be advised to check your AL blocks now and then if you a running one!

Cathar · 02-07-2003, 04:06 PM

Good to see that you've seen the light Jaydee!

dima y · 02-07-2003, 04:08 PM

i anodized my blocks at home! no shop not even a garage! I did it on my patio.

Its only going to cost you like $50 (without the charger, but then again you can buy one in say Walmart and then return it)

very few supplys are required

bigben2k · 02-07-2003, 04:10 PM

MaskedGeek does it.

jaydee · 02-07-2003, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dima y
i anodized my blocks at home! no shop not even a garage! I did it on my patio.

Its only going to cost you like $50 (without the charger, but then again you can buy one in say Walmart and then return it)

very few supplys are required

No patio, no garage, no shop, live in an apt. No nasty chemicals, no chargers, ect...

Like I said not an option. It would be more expensive to ship the AL to someone to anodize then it would to just make the same block in copper! I am going all Copper from here on out. Not much reason not to. Copper is pretty cheap and simple to get. I got a good drill press and a mill that can handle it (with patience). Only thing AL has going for it is ease of milling. But being I am not making large quantities it doesn't really matter. Especially being every new block I have dreamed up is not going to require anything but a 1/8" peice of coppper for the base! After getting good results with my REV. 2.0 and having mucho room for improvement with it I just can't see any reason to continue with AL.

BillA · 02-07-2003, 05:00 PM

anodizing is not perfect, nor of uniform thickness
anodizing does not prevent corrosion, simply retards its onset
and when the corrosion starts, which it will, the effects will be concentrated in a much smaller area

all this to use a matl of lesser performance ?

certainally a BAD idea for the bp
is it a better idea for the top ?

some reduction in matl cost,
not too significant a reduction in machine time for the drilling and tapping required,
a slight weight reduction

offset by the sos
worth it ??

compared to a soldered top and soldered barbs ??
if WCing is ever to go mainstream, reliability IS the issue to address

/rant

dima y · 02-07-2003, 05:02 PM

i live in an appartament too

first floor though and i don't think my manager knows what i store on the porch, if you would i would be out of here. (knocks on the wood for that one)

We i too use copper but only for the botton i use al for the top just because i can anodize it and make it look pretty plus swiftech does it... they must know what they are doing. It also weighs less then copper and in case the flow stops there is less chanse of it melting unlike and acrylic top from a maze say.

But that would be the other way to go copper bottoms and acrilic/lexan (you name it) tops. Morphin1 does that seems to work out quite well for him. If i were you i would choose this option because there is less copper to machine so easier on you yet you get 0% corrosion because there is no al in the system

jaydee · 02-07-2003, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dima y

But that would be the other way to go copper bottoms and acrilic/lexan (you name it) tops. Morphin1 does that seems to work out quite well for him. If i were you i would choose this option because there is less copper to machine so easier on you yet you get 0% corrosion because there is no al in the system

My REV. 2.0.

1/8" copper base, 1/4" acrylic middle, 1/4" acrylic top. Works like a charm so far. If I was to commercialize this I would go with at least a Copper middle and maybe go Lexan for the top.

I can't have any chemicals and stuff around. I have 6 year old daughter over on the weeksnd that likes to snoop around. I don't want her getting into anything. I get nervous even having the windshield washer fluid around. I keep it in the truck!. probably over protective as she always asks me what it is she is courious about but better safe than sorry. If I had a garage you bet I would try to set it up though! I would love to be able to anodize. Not just for water blocks but a lot of stuff. Aluminum is great material for a lot of things. I just don't think it is to good for serious water cooling.

Cathar · 02-07-2003, 07:57 PM

Copper mixed with aluminium...why risk it? You know it's bad news, so why?

Some pretty pictures of a nickel plated aluminium top on a copper base after a couple of months using a mix of radiator corrosion inhibitor and distilled water:

koslov · 02-07-2003, 08:12 PM

Good to hear your off the Al. Just to show what happens when tap water, Cu, and Al are mixed:

Obviously the green stuff is just calcium deposits from the tap water, but all that black is corrosion. And if you are wondering, yes this is from a rather infamous wb whose name I dare not utter.

jaydee · 02-07-2003, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by koslov
Good to hear your off the Al. Just to show what happens when tap water, Cu, and Al are mixed:

Obviously the green stuff is just calcium deposits from the tap water, but all that black is corrosion. And if you are wondering, yes this is from a rather infamous wb whose name I dare not utter.

Z4, I did a whole review on that block! I even milled out the channel walls and gained 5C!!!

Search it out, I posted a thread here completely trashing it. A few weeks later CPUFX came out with a new version!

LiquidRulez · 02-07-2003, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cathar
Copper mixed with aluminium...why risk it? You know it's bad news, so why?

Some pretty pictures of a nickel plated aluminium top on a copper base after a couple of months using a mix of radiator corrosion inhibitor and distilled water:

Damn..and I thought that my Al top looked bad when I pulled my block apart.....I dont feel so bad now

jaydee · 02-07-2003, 11:04 PM

Few pics. Hard to tell from them what real damage was done.

.......................................
This one os the spot to where it is almost through the base. Hard to tell from the pic though.

.......................................

.......................................
Was going to drop this one on today, but beingthe base is half as thick as the other I decided against it.

Blackeagle · 02-07-2003, 11:18 PM

Dahm!!!!!!!!!!!

#Rotor · 02-08-2003, 10:17 AM

wow.. Seems like I am the only successful user of CU and Al combined into one block....

some of those pictures will make the Alien hesitate for just a wee bit...

jaydee · 02-08-2003, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by #Rotor
wow.. Seems like I am the only successful user of CU and Al combined into one block....

some of those pictures will make the Alien hesitate for just a wee bit...

I haven't had to much trouble up till now. I know my Lemon block is holding strong, but is has a acrylic top to the brass barbs are not causing much grief. I am about to pull that block off and I will show a pic of what it looks like. Been running it about the same as the one above.

psychofunk · 02-19-2003, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jaydee116
Z4, I did a whole review on that block! I even milled out the channel walls and gained 5C!!!

Search it out, I posted a thread here completely trashing it. A few weeks later CPUFX came out with a new version!

Damn it, I have the new one, does this mean I am totally ****ed?

Since87 · 02-19-2003, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dima y

But that would be the other way to go copper bottoms and acrilic/lexan (you name it) tops. Morphin1 does that seems to work out quite well for him. If i were you i would choose this option because there is less copper to machine so easier on you yet you get 0% corrosion because there is no al in the system

How come when the subject of plastic tops come up, the only materials that seem to be considered are acrylic and polycarbonate?

Looks I assume.

For functionality there are lots of plastics that would be much more suitable.

Nylon
HDPE
Delrin (Acetal)

I'm no expert on plastics. There may well be better materials than these. But all of these are lightweight, durable, and most importantly, they're not brittle.

A machinist who does a lot of contract work for my employer tends to prefer Delrin, because of its 'machinability'. It's incredibly durable too.

jaydee · 02-19-2003, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Since87
How come when the subject of plastic tops come up, the only materials that seem to be considered are acrylic and polycarbonate?

Price and easy to find. 2"x3" Acrylic top costs me about $0.10 for 1/4". Have no idea where to find anything you listed there. Especially in 2"x3" chunks.

02-07-2003, 03:55 PM	#1
jaydee Put up or Shut Up Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 6,506	No More Aluminum! I removed one of my AL water blocks a while back and replaced it with my REV. 2.0 copper block. I took that AL block to work to day to clean it out and sand blast it. Once cleaned out I noticed BAD corrosion on the top and the base. Almost all the way through on the base. Will post a pics when I can. This is a case of the battery effect plain and simple. That's what I get for useing brass barbs with a AL block. I only used it for less than 2 months 24/7! I am sure this can be prevented by not using brass barbs, and better anti-corrosion stuff. And better yet anodizing (which isn't an option). I just used windshield washer fluid. Anyway, I am moving on to Copper. Going to beef up my mill and use my drill press to make Copper blocks from now on. Just as well anyway. All the heater cores I use are brass and the barbs I use are brass. Just aswell make it all get along. If I waited another month I may have had a serious leakage problem through the base of that block! After my cable internet gets hooked up today I am going to remove my aluminum Lemon Block and replace it with either a Copper block or just an air cooler for now. I have a decent Copper block made up, but I just need to make a new top for it. Would be advised to check your AL blocks now and then if you a running one!

02-07-2003, 04:08 PM	#3
dima y Cooling Savant Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: palo alto, CA Posts: 164	Anodizing is the way to go! i anodized my blocks at home! no shop not even a garage! I did it on my patio. Its only going to cost you like $50 (without the charger, but then again you can buy one in say Walmart and then return it) very few supplys are required

02-07-2003, 04:10 PM	#4
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	MaskedGeek does it. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

02-07-2003, 05:02 PM	#7
dima y Cooling Savant Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: palo alto, CA Posts: 164	actually i live in an appartament too first floor though and i don't think my manager knows what i store on the porch, if you would i would be out of here. (knocks on the wood for that one) We i too use copper but only for the botton i use al for the top just because i can anodize it and make it look pretty plus swiftech does it... they must know what they are doing. It also weighs less then copper and in case the flow stops there is less chanse of it melting unlike and acrylic top from a maze say. But that would be the other way to go copper bottoms and acrilic/lexan (you name it) tops. Morphin1 does that seems to work out quite well for him. If i were you i would choose this option because there is less copper to machine so easier on you yet you get 0% corrosion because there is no al in the system

02-07-2003, 07:57 PM	#9
Cathar Thermophile Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 2,538	Copper mixed with aluminium...why risk it? You know it's bad news, so why? Some pretty pictures of a nickel plated aluminium top on a copper base after a couple of months using a mix of radiator corrosion inhibitor and distilled water: Last edited by Cathar; 02-07-2003 at 08:02 PM.

02-07-2003, 04:06 PM	#2
Cathar Thermophile Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 2,538	Good to see that you've seen the light Jaydee!

02-07-2003, 05:00 PM	#6
BillA CoolingWorks Tech Guy Formerly "Unregistered" Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Posts: 2,371.493,106 Posts: 4,440	anodizing is not perfect, nor of uniform thickness anodizing does not prevent corrosion, simply retards its onset and when the corrosion starts, which it will, the effects will be concentrated in a much smaller area all this to use a matl of lesser performance ? certainally a BAD idea for the bp is it a better idea for the top ? some reduction in matl cost, not too significant a reduction in machine time for the drilling and tapping required, a slight weight reduction offset by the sos worth it ?? compared to a soldered top and soldered barbs ?? if WCing is ever to go mainstream, reliability IS the issue to address /rant

02-07-2003, 08:12 PM	#10
koslov Cooling Savant Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Posts: 264	Good to hear your off the Al. Just to show what happens when tap water, Cu, and Al are mixed: Obviously the green stuff is just calcium deposits from the tap water, but all that black is corrosion. And if you are wondering, yes this is from a rather infamous wb whose name I dare not utter.

02-07-2003, 11:04 PM	#13
jaydee Put up or Shut Up Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 6,506	Few pics. Hard to tell from them what real damage was done. ....................................... This one os the spot to where it is almost through the base. Hard to tell from the pic though. ....................................... ....................................... ....................................... ....................................... ....................................... Was going to drop this one on today, but beingthe base is half as thick as the other I decided against it.

02-07-2003, 11:18 PM	#14
Blackeagle Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: U.S.A = Michigan Posts: 1,243	Dahm!!!!!!!!!!!

02-08-2003, 10:17 AM	#15
#Rotor Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dione, sector 4s1256 Posts: 852	wow.. Seems like I am the only successful user of CU and Al combined into one block.... some of those pictures will make the Alien hesitate for just a wee bit... __________________ There is no Spoon....

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