My new water block, need help !!!

morphling1 · 12-25-2001, 03:54 PM

Hi, after some time , I finaly made my new water block. It's made from Al (I was gonna made it from Cu, but it was too much trouble, 2.5mm milling bit broke to often, and inner wall colapse when milling). But there seems to be problem with this block, it just don't perform as good as I wanted. One problem could be to thin bottom of 2mm so the heat couldn't spread around the block.Can Al block with large surface area like this outperform Cu block. Please I need good sugestions.

Here are the pics.

pHaestus · 12-25-2001, 10:23 PM

First of all, that is some top notch machining. As for the performance, it seems to me that the channels closest to the input line have the sharpest angle (over 90 degrees) and I would be concerned that the water wasn't flowing very much right around the center of the block. This is where the bulk of the heat is too, so that could be a bad thing for heat transfer if the water flows preferentially around the outside. That is just a guess of course...

WebMasta33 · 12-26-2001, 12:24 AM

Wow. That's awsome. Where/how did you get that machined?

morphling1 · 12-26-2001, 04:19 AM

Water flow was surprisingly good. I tested the block with 590 l/h pump, which dropped flow to 490 l/h with 50 cm 1/2" ID tube, then to 340 l/h thrue this block, I also tested my older 5*5cm Cu cross drilled (10mm ID S shapped chanell) block which dropped to 250 l/h. So flow is not the problem.

As for making of this block, I made 3d model and get NC code with ProEngineer, then with a help of a friend with CNC Cincinnati mill, he post prosess this code for his machine and made it. We'll probably make few more prototypes with thicker base, and if it perform good,and some of you are interested, we could make a small series.A complete block with 4 spring, bolts and everything to put this block on a socketA mb, wouldn't cost more than 50$. I could send a sample to Joe for independent test. Stop me if I'm not allowed to do that.

Malchira · 12-26-2001, 07:06 AM

Not to be intentionally contrary, but are you sure your pump might not be a factor? If my conversion utility is correct, 590l/h is only 150 U.S. gallons per hour, which isn't exactly a powerhouse pump, especially for use with a fairly restrictive design.

Just a thought.

morphling1 · 12-26-2001, 07:59 AM

No, no 590 l/h pump was used only for flow testing through the block. In my case I've got Eheim 1250 badboy, see my old pic.

.

futRtrubL · 12-27-2001, 09:01 PM

What I think pHaestus was getting at wasn't overall flow. You have three channels rinning in the spiral, what he was getting at, and I agree, is that more water will be flowing through the outer channel because the inner ones have tighter bends. This could be why you are getting high flow rates.

Edward

Brad · 12-28-2001, 02:02 AM

fut is thinking of the right idea.

in a future block it might be an idea to make the inner channel a little wider, the middle one how it is now, and the outer one a bit thinner.

newbie · 12-28-2001, 06:16 AM

You say you aren't getting very good results - what do you mean? What's do your temp numbers look like? c/w?

Secondly, what are you comparing your numbers to? Do you have a dangerden or a nano block that's giving you better results in exactly the same config?

Having asked all that, the fact that you've got multiple flow channels means the waterflow is going to choose the path of least resistance. Water that flows into a higher resistance channel may end up stagnating and since water doesn't conduct heat well, that could create a hotspot.

One way you could diagnose the issue is measure the block's temperature with either an optical probe that remotely measures temperatures or, if you're lucky, a video camera that has an ir capable ccd. Sony used to make a camera like that that some folks used to look at women. The camera showed the heat flux, not the clothing. The camera will give you an instantaneous reading across the entire surface and tell you if you've got stagnant water inside the block.

If you've only got an optical probe, then you'll want to divide your block into a matrix and measure the temperature at each square in the matrix. Record the temp in each square on graph paper and that'll give you a numerical equivalent of the video image.

morphling1 · 12-28-2001, 12:45 PM

Ok, the numbers, first cpu TB 1520@2.12V =120W ,100% Seti load. With this WB the temp. is 44°C (c/W=0.2), then I made another test with 2.5Cu plate bolted on the base of the WB with arctic silver between and temp dropped to 38°C (c/W=0.15) . With my old big homemade Cu WB I get 33°C (c/W=0.11).Room temp was 20°C, water temp 22°C. So the problem with WB is to thin base. I'll make few blocks with different base thickness and tested them to find optimal one.

That kind of camera would be nice, but no way I could get it.

morphling1 · 01-02-2002, 05:29 AM

Ok, modification will be made,also Cu version will bi made, first results here in 3 weeks.
See ya

newbie · 01-02-2002, 10:48 AM

Morphling, you might learn more if you change one variable at a time. If you think the problem with your wb is that it has too thin a base and it is made of copper, modify one parameter and rebuild.

By changing both parameters at the same time, you might end up with a better block in one shot but you won't know why it's a better block.

morphling1 · 01-02-2002, 11:40 AM

Ok, my last post before I go.Of course I'll change only one parameter at a time. I will make AL ver. with thicker base and another Cu one ,just because I wanna see the real difference between AL & Cu, but for changing parameters I'm focused on AL block for now.

Hallis · 01-02-2002, 05:17 PM

Beautifull design.

Brad · 01-02-2002, 06:29 PM

you'd probably want to do most of that sort of thing in Al, simply cause of cost as well as how easy it is to work with

Overlag · 01-03-2002, 08:28 AM

how about milling it so the cap (the top atm) to the whole thing is what contacts the core, and make this copper,kinda like the swiftech design?

Brad · 01-03-2002, 04:52 PM

cause then the fins wouldn't be part of the same piece of copper, the only piece of copper doing anything would be the flat bottom

xoLiVeRx · 01-08-2002, 02:15 PM

yo morphling could u tell me where i can order those quick release couplings? for 1/2 tubing, i would greatly appriciate it!

oLiVeR

morphling1 · 01-11-2002, 04:11 AM

I bought them in local hardware shop, they have them in any shop that sells garden equipment (Gardena, my was made by Claber...)

CptnDipshit · 01-15-2002, 06:18 PM

Will you post any measurements and/or materials list to make this when your finished. Maybe a downloadable cad file. I have a friend that works at a machine shop and said he's slow a lot and would make one for me when he has time. I understand if you don't want to, it's your design and all.

Thanks

Brad · 01-15-2002, 06:40 PM

it isn't too hard to design and make your own you know, plenty of people do it all the time

CptnDipshit · 01-15-2002, 09:45 PM

Yea, I know. I just relly like hi design. As far as what i would be able to make, it would probably be just a straight through channel. I would like to make my own (still saving for a mill)

Cyco-Dude · 02-16-2002, 08:39 PM

that sir, is a nice lookin block! a copper one would be sweet...

have you checked out Becooling's new CuSil WB? the desogns in the two block look...very similar in some aspects.

Brad · 02-17-2002, 01:53 AM

pity cusil is a sham, otherwise it is a seriously nice block

ksw · 02-27-2002, 12:51 PM

i want results for the CuWB!

12-25-2001, 03:54 PM	#1
morphling1 Cooling Savant Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Slovenia Posts: 468	My new water block, need help !!! Hi, after some time , I finaly made my new water block. It's made from Al (I was gonna made it from Cu, but it was too much trouble, 2.5mm milling bit broke to often, and inner wall colapse when milling). But there seems to be problem with this block, it just don't perform as good as I wanted. One problem could be to thin bottom of 2mm so the heat couldn't spread around the block.Can Al block with large surface area like this outperform Cu block. Please I need good sugestions. Here are the pics. __________________ [My ftp, with lots of pics, hope to be home page someday Last edited by morphling1; 12-28-2001 at 04:30 PM.

12-25-2001, 10:23 PM	#2
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	First of all, that is some top notch machining. As for the performance, it seems to me that the channels closest to the input line have the sharpest angle (over 90 degrees) and I would be concerned that the water wasn't flowing very much right around the center of the block. This is where the bulk of the heat is too, so that could be a bad thing for heat transfer if the water flows preferentially around the outside. That is just a guess of course... __________________ Getting paid like a biker with the best crank... -MF DOOM

12-26-2001, 12:24 AM	#3
WebMasta33 Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Nebraska Posts: 526	Wow. That's awsome. Where/how did you get that machined? __________________ ========== --Soyo KT333 DRAGON Ultra (Platinum Edition) --AMD 1.4 @ 1.54 (11x) --768mb of PC2100 (@140FSB) --Asus v8200 GeForce3 @ 210/490 --Maxtor 40gb Quiet + 2 IBM 40gb 60GXPs (removable) + 8gb WD --Audigy --Maze 3, DD Gf3 block, 2x BIX, Eheim1250 ===========

12-26-2001, 04:19 AM	#4
morphling1 Cooling Savant Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Slovenia Posts: 468	Water flow was surprisingly good. I tested the block with 590 l/h pump, which dropped flow to 490 l/h with 50 cm 1/2" ID tube, then to 340 l/h thrue this block, I also tested my older 5*5cm Cu cross drilled (10mm ID S shapped chanell) block which dropped to 250 l/h. So flow is not the problem. As for making of this block, I made 3d model and get NC code with ProEngineer, then with a help of a friend with CNC Cincinnati mill, he post prosess this code for his machine and made it. We'll probably make few more prototypes with thicker base, and if it perform good,and some of you are interested, we could make a small series.A complete block with 4 spring, bolts and everything to put this block on a socketA mb, wouldn't cost more than 50$. I could send a sample to Joe for independent test. Stop me if I'm not allowed to do that. __________________ [My ftp, with lots of pics, hope to be home page someday

12-26-2001, 07:59 AM	#6
morphling1 Cooling Savant Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Slovenia Posts: 468	No, no 590 l/h pump was used only for flow testing through the block. In my case I've got Eheim 1250 badboy, see my old pic. . __________________ [My ftp, with lots of pics, hope to be home page someday

12-26-2001, 07:06 AM	#5
Malchira Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jun 2001 Posts: 19	Not to be intentionally contrary, but are you sure your pump might not be a factor? If my conversion utility is correct, 590l/h is only 150 U.S. gallons per hour, which isn't exactly a powerhouse pump, especially for use with a fairly restrictive design. Just a thought.

12-27-2001, 09:01 PM	#7
futRtrubL Cooling Savant Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Kingston, Jamaica Posts: 204	What I think pHaestus was getting at wasn't overall flow. You have three channels rinning in the spiral, what he was getting at, and I agree, is that more water will be flowing through the outer channel because the inner ones have tighter bends. This could be why you are getting high flow rates. Edward Last edited by futRtrubL; 12-28-2001 at 11:56 AM.

12-28-2001, 02:02 AM	#8
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	fut is thinking of the right idea. in a future block it might be an idea to make the inner channel a little wider, the middle one how it is now, and the outer one a bit thinner.

12-28-2001, 06:16 AM	#9
newbie Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: salinas Posts: 12	What kind of numbers are you getting? You say you aren't getting very good results - what do you mean? What's do your temp numbers look like? c/w? Secondly, what are you comparing your numbers to? Do you have a dangerden or a nano block that's giving you better results in exactly the same config? Having asked all that, the fact that you've got multiple flow channels means the waterflow is going to choose the path of least resistance. Water that flows into a higher resistance channel may end up stagnating and since water doesn't conduct heat well, that could create a hotspot. One way you could diagnose the issue is measure the block's temperature with either an optical probe that remotely measures temperatures or, if you're lucky, a video camera that has an ir capable ccd. Sony used to make a camera like that that some folks used to look at women. The camera showed the heat flux, not the clothing. The camera will give you an instantaneous reading across the entire surface and tell you if you've got stagnant water inside the block. If you've only got an optical probe, then you'll want to divide your block into a matrix and measure the temperature at each square in the matrix. Record the temp in each square on graph paper and that'll give you a numerical equivalent of the video image.

12-28-2001, 12:45 PM	#10
morphling1 Cooling Savant Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Slovenia Posts: 468	Ok, the numbers, first cpu TB 1520@2.12V =120W ,100% Seti load. With this WB the temp. is 44°C (c/W=0.2), then I made another test with 2.5Cu plate bolted on the base of the WB with arctic silver between and temp dropped to 38°C (c/W=0.15) . With my old big homemade Cu WB I get 33°C (c/W=0.11).Room temp was 20°C, water temp 22°C. So the problem with WB is to thin base. I'll make few blocks with different base thickness and tested them to find optimal one. That kind of camera would be nice, but no way I could get it.

01-02-2002, 05:29 AM	#11
morphling1 Cooling Savant Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Slovenia Posts: 468	Ok, modification will be made,also Cu version will bi made, first results here in 3 weeks. See ya

01-02-2002, 10:48 AM	#12
newbie Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: salinas Posts: 12	Morphling, you might learn more if you change one variable at a time. If you think the problem with your wb is that it has too thin a base and it is made of copper, modify one parameter and rebuild. By changing both parameters at the same time, you might end up with a better block in one shot but you won't know why it's a better block.

01-02-2002, 11:40 AM	#13
morphling1 Cooling Savant Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Slovenia Posts: 468	Ok, my last post before I go.Of course I'll change only one parameter at a time. I will make AL ver. with thicker base and another Cu one ,just because I wanna see the real difference between AL & Cu, but for changing parameters I'm focused on AL block for now.

01-02-2002, 05:17 PM	#14
Hallis Cooling Savant Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Dallas, Tx Posts: 469	Beautifull design.

01-02-2002, 06:29 PM	#15
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	you'd probably want to do most of that sort of thing in Al, simply cause of cost as well as how easy it is to work with

01-03-2002, 08:28 AM	#16
Overlag Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Essex UK Posts: 21	how about milling it so the cap (the top atm) to the whole thing is what contacts the core, and make this copper,kinda like the swiftech design? __________________ From Overlag AKA Adam Webb CPU:A64 3200\|2000 @ 2350mhz MB:Asus K8V Ram:512mb PC3200 Corsair @ 235 2-3-3-6 GFX:ATI 9700pro 357/337 Cooling:watercooled DD maze2-1 modded 20431

01-03-2002, 04:52 PM	#17
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	cause then the fins wouldn't be part of the same piece of copper, the only piece of copper doing anything would be the flat bottom

01-08-2002, 02:15 PM	#18
xoLiVeRx Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Dublin, Ireland Posts: 27	yo morphling could u tell me where i can order those quick release couplings? for 1/2 tubing, i would greatly appriciate it! oLiVeR

01-11-2002, 04:11 AM	#19
morphling1 Cooling Savant Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Slovenia Posts: 468	I bought them in local hardware shop, they have them in any shop that sells garden equipment (Gardena, my was made by Claber...)

01-15-2002, 06:18 PM	#20
CptnDipshit Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 28	Will you post any measurements and/or materials list to make this when your finished. Maybe a downloadable cad file. I have a friend that works at a machine shop and said he's slow a lot and would make one for me when he has time. I understand if you don't want to, it's your design and all. Thanks

01-15-2002, 06:40 PM	#21
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	it isn't too hard to design and make your own you know, plenty of people do it all the time

01-15-2002, 09:45 PM	#22
CptnDipshit Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 28	Yea, I know. I just relly like hi design. As far as what i would be able to make, it would probably be just a straight through channel. I would like to make my own (still saving for a mill)

02-16-2002, 08:39 PM	#23
Cyco-Dude Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dayton, Ohio Posts: 836	cool... that sir, is a nice lookin block! a copper one would be sweet... have you checked out Becooling's new CuSil WB? the desogns in the two block look...very similar in some aspects.

02-17-2002, 01:53 AM	#24
Brad Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nuu Zeeelin Posts: 3,175	pity cusil is a sham, otherwise it is a seriously nice block __________________ 2x P3 1100's at 1400, Abit VP6, 2x Corsair 256mb PC150 sticks, 20gb 'cuda ATA-III, 2x 40gb 'cuda ATA-IV in raid 0. 20" Trinitron. No fans 2x 2400+ at 2288mhz (16.0 x 143), Iwill MPX2, 2x Kingmax PC-3200 256mb sticks, 4x 20gb 60gxp in Raid 5 on a Promise SX6000. Asus Ti4200 320/630. Cooled by Water

02-27-2002, 12:51 PM	#25
ksw Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: SWEDEN(cold...) Posts: 195	i want results for the CuWB! __________________ www.webraced.com <- addicted as hell /me is!

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