TimeLord's Jet block v1 (machining pics)

MMZ_TimeLord · 09-19-2003, 12:24 AM

Welp... worked on this a while tonight... here's what I have done so far...

Cut off a 3 inch piece from my 2 inch x ½ inch copper bar. Then I surfaced one side and the ends to get them trued up.

I printed out my drawing at work for a guide and cut it out. I then sprayed some 3M spray adheasive on the unmachined side (it was almost flat to begin with) and then put the paper guide on that side and pressed it down with another block of Acrylic. (blurry pic)

Then I drilled out my Jet Holes first... left approximately 1/32 of an inch of copper plate at the bottom.

Then I machined out the return water area.

Lastly, using my rotary table and a 1/16 inch ball nose endmill, I machined the groove for the o-ring or other seal.

Now I just have to drill and tap the holes for the bolts and do the acrylic parts.

I will add to this post when I get more...

jaydee · 09-19-2003, 01:51 PM

Those are some MONSTER cups in that base! Going to be some large jets eh? Going to need a monster pump to create the impingment effect effectivly but if you get it working right it should be pretty good. Looks like a P4 block to cover the spreader? Might be a bit overkill but it is looking good. Nice work so far.

bigben2k · 09-19-2003, 06:40 PM

Looking good! Keep up the good work.

winewood · 09-19-2003, 06:58 PM

WOW!.. Im glad to see some good experimentation and actual followthrough. Can't wait to see the numbers.

oh wait.. forget that.. The theoretcal inaccurate numberings from the variances from the system that you mount it on, compared to other theoretical numberings from another block.

Cathar · 09-19-2003, 07:12 PM

I'm personally concerned that the base-plate is a little too thin for the size of the cups, but given that it'll be used atop a P4 with an IHS, then I guess it'll be okay. When sitting atop a bare-die CPU the base is of sub-optimal thickness. I would've chosen around a 2.0mm base at the thinnest for holes of that size, and possibly as thick as 3.0mm depending on the target jet velocity.

Still, good work though.

30 cups of 6mm in diameter.

I do have some thoughts on what the jet ID and other jet configuration specifics should be, but they're only what I'd call "starting points" and may not necessarily apply to such a scaled up version. I'd probably aim for a 5/64" jet ID as a starting point, although 3/32" is also decent. I'd favor the 5/64" jet purely because jet velocity is higher, even though the jet:cup width ratio is a bit out, but again, may be a completely different story for the sizes being dealt with here compared to what I'm used to.

30 x 5/64" holes gives around a 93mm^2 total jet orifice area, which is right up there. You want a total jet orifice area at least below around 70mm^2 to be gaining any real acceleration benefit for purposes of impingement over the standard incoming water velocity.

siavash_s_s · 09-19-2003, 09:35 PM

im jealous... very nice job. my damned drill press wont let me get that sort of accuracy

MMZ_TimeLord · 09-20-2003, 02:14 AM

Welp... almost have the middle Acrylic plate finished and decided to put the bolt holes in everything.

Got the middle plate drilled out nicely, drilled smaller holes in the base for threading... tapped two and was on the third when ... DOH! broke the damn tap... !*#!

... I hate that!

So, this is on hold until sunday, as I'm gonna be at a LAN party all day tomorrow.

I did get 12 of the jets cut to length and will post some pictures of everything sunday.

It's late... I need sleep for tomorrow... Cheers!

nOv1c3 · 09-22-2003, 09:12 AM

Okay Its monday we want updates hehe

I,m impressed Very nice machine work there MMZ_TimeLord looking very good

nOv1c3 · 09-22-2003, 09:13 AM

hmm

nOv1c3 · 09-22-2003, 09:14 AM

dont ask me what hapen triple post lol

MMZ_TimeLord · 09-22-2003, 11:31 AM

Yeah, didn't get in until late last night... too hot here and I was beat.

No pictures up yet. I'll try to do that during my lunch.

MMZ_TimeLord · 09-23-2003, 01:41 AM

Okay... here's the pictures I MEANT to post sunday when I was just dog tired and it was hotter than an oven.

Machining the middle plate (Acrylic)...

First dozen jets are cut...

Block used to sand each jet to the same length... (Jet sticking half way out)

Jet in the middle plate... I slightly flared the end that in the Acrylic so the water pressure doesn't push them through.

Here is the infamous broken tap... still working out how to save this baseplate.

Finally... on friday I got my new radiator (heater core) from www.leakycar.com (Core # 2-302 on this page)

Modified tubes of the core...

Installed... still need to clean up the box area so it's more properly sealed.

That's it for today... I'm going to try and remove that broken tap tomorrow... wish me luck...

pippin88 · 09-23-2003, 04:25 AM

Looks like you might be able to back it out with some really fine pliers?

MMZ_TimeLord · 09-23-2003, 08:53 AM

Nah... I was backing it out when it broke. I should have drilled out the holes a little more for tapping.

I will probably have to mill off the tip on the other side and then drill it out.

msv · 09-23-2003, 09:48 AM

I broke an M3 tap in my base plate this saturday and planned to drill it out. I tried to punch a dimple in the tap end with a chisel, but instead I whacked out the broken tap. I redrilled the hole and tapped it with an M4 tap instead.
regards
Mikael S.

MMZ_TimeLord · 09-23-2003, 11:44 PM

Welp... Carbon Steel Alloy is WAY harder than I anticipated...

I ended up grinding down the tip of the broken tap. Then using the hardest punch I had... I pounded it back out the way it went in.

This created four slots in the hole... but it will still hold the bolts for the clamping pressure I'm looking at.

Here are some updated pictures from tonight...

The top and middle acrylic plates are almost done... I have 10 of the jets flared and installed. Here are the three plates.

another view...

Lastly a basic test fit... some of my jet to hole alignment is off a bit. (Don't worry about that hole breaking through... I'm gonna glue an acrylic tube there so it won't be open.

Hope to have the rest of the jets cut to length and the block polished and put together tomorrow.

maxim · 09-24-2003, 12:01 AM

how did you go about making those jets to stay in the plexi? flared the top? with what, pliers?

do you think the water will flow with enough pressure to the outer jets? the holes are pretty big and the water might not wanna spread that far out from the center.

MMZ_TimeLord · 09-24-2003, 01:36 AM

I used an endmill (1/16 inch) which has an 1/8 inch shaft... I just used the shaft about an 1/8th of an inch into the tube and pulled it at an angle around in a circle... copper is soft so it flares. Not right away, but after about 10 circles.

I'm not concerned with the loss of pressure at the outer jets. I just want to see how this will work. Probably better than the block I have now.

We will see... that's why I'm making it.

FL3JM · 09-24-2003, 08:28 AM

I have to agree with maxim, the outer holes won't do any good imo. They will just restrict the waterflow that is coming out of the center jets. I suggest you make some plugs to plug some holes, that way you can test how many holes is the most efficient design. I think you will only need the most central jets since the core is not that big and you will only loose that valuable pressure if you use more jets (no matter the flow rate of your pump).

Well that is at least what i think, i may be completely wrong, i am just one of those 'lurkers'.

MMZ_TimeLord · 09-25-2003, 11:43 AM

Very little to update this morning... did drill out the bolt holes in the acrylic and get some things lined up.

FL3JM & maxim,

This block is for a P4 with the IHS in place. This is just to give me some experience building this type of block before I commit to building a smaller jet version.

I do not care about the flow to the outer jets as the flow through this will be WAY better than this block I currently have in place.

This is what I am building... They are both based on a 2 inch by 3 inch, ½ inch thick block of copper for a base.

Now you tell me... is this gonna be better for flow? Flow right now is what is hurting my system. :shrug:

Boli · 09-25-2003, 01:52 PM

Quote:

I have to agree with maxim, the outer holes won't do any good imo. They will just restrict the waterflow that is coming out of the center jets. I suggest you make some plugs to plug some holes, that way you can test how many holes is the most efficient design. I think you will only need the most central jets since the core is not that big and you will only loose that valuable pressure if you use more jets (no matter the flow rate of your pump).

Well that is at least what i think, i may be completely wrong, i am just one of those 'lurkers'.

Yeah my thinking is that the water would invaribly go through the centre and this is where the main source of heat, but it the water will STILL run to the ends and down the outside "jets" even if the flow there were reduced compared to the centre and you'll be able to coll the "outer HS" much better than the cascade for example.

I think the desgn will work very well for pentium systems but like you said the outer jets coul become reduntact but only on systems that do no have a HS such as an Althon XP

~ Boli

FL3JM · 09-25-2003, 05:31 PM

You can remove the HS (if you dare).

The HS on the p4's are really some sloppy jobs. They but a big blob of some cheapo thermal grease, then push the HS on the core along with some superstrong glue on the sides of the HS.
Well anyway, i believe most of you guys allready knew that. :]

Althornin · 09-25-2003, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by FL3JM
some cheapo thermal grease

i thought they used some of the high quality shin-etsu stuff under the heat spreader?

MMZ_TimeLord · 09-26-2003, 01:43 AM

Welp... got the other 18 jets cut and smoothed out... flared and installed.

Did a test run in the sink from my filtered water faucet... only 12 Gallons a minute flow...

As you can see (sorta blurry) the center jets are indeed getting the most pressure... BUT, this is without the "cups".

Other views... Jets installed...

Inlet and Outlets installed and the two acrylic sections glued together.

Finally... top section sitting on the baseplate with silicon II tub and tile sealant drying. I filled in that 1/16" channel with it and am just letting the weight of the top spread it. When it's cured 12 hours, I will put the screws in to clamp it down and seal it.

That's all for tonight... and BTW... I don't wanna risk my P4 by prying off the IHS... but, yeah, I know it can be done.

Again, this is just a test block anyway.

maxim · 09-26-2003, 01:48 AM

hot shit. all these DIY jet blocks popping up make me wanna try my hand at them

so im deffinetelly looking forward to seeing the results:

09-19-2003, 12:24 AM	#1
MMZ_TimeLord Cooling Savant Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: San Mateo, CA, USA, Earth Posts: 433	TimeLord's Jet block v1 (pics - Caution 56k) Welp... worked on this a while tonight... here's what I have done so far... Cut off a 3 inch piece from my 2 inch x ½ inch copper bar. Then I surfaced one side and the ends to get them trued up. I printed out my drawing at work for a guide and cut it out. I then sprayed some 3M spray adheasive on the unmachined side (it was almost flat to begin with) and then put the paper guide on that side and pressed it down with another block of Acrylic. (blurry pic) Then I drilled out my Jet Holes first... left approximately 1/32 of an inch of copper plate at the bottom. Then I machined out the return water area. Lastly, using my rotary table and a 1/16 inch ball nose endmill, I machined the groove for the o-ring or other seal. Now I just have to drill and tap the holes for the bolts and do the acrylic parts. I will add to this post when I get more... __________________ MMZ>TimeLord "Oooooooooh... that's gonna leave a mark!" Last edited by MMZ_TimeLord; 09-25-2003 at 01:07 PM.

09-19-2003, 06:40 PM	#3
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Looking good! Keep up the good work. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

09-19-2003, 06:58 PM	#4
winewood Cooling Savant Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: in my chair Posts: 574	WOW!.. Im glad to see some good experimentation and actual followthrough. Can't wait to see the numbers. oh wait.. forget that.. The theoretcal inaccurate numberings from the variances from the system that you mount it on, compared to other theoretical numberings from another block. __________________ -winewood-

09-19-2003, 09:35 PM	#6
siavash_s_s Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: here n there Posts: 194	im jealous... very nice job. my damned drill press wont let me get that sort of accuracy __________________ buy me a mill

09-20-2003, 02:14 AM	#7
MMZ_TimeLord Cooling Savant Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: San Mateo, CA, USA, Earth Posts: 433	Welp... almost have the middle Acrylic plate finished and decided to put the bolt holes in everything. Got the middle plate drilled out nicely, drilled smaller holes in the base for threading... tapped two and was on the third when ... DOH! broke the damn tap... !#! ... I hate that! So, this is on hold until sunday, as I'm gonna be at a LAN party all day tomorrow. I did get 12 of the jets cut to length and will post some pictures of everything sunday. It's late... I need sleep for tomorrow... Cheers! __________________ MMZ>TimeLord* "Oooooooooh... that's gonna leave a mark!"

09-19-2003, 01:51 PM	#2
jaydee Put up or Shut Up Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 6,506	Those are some MONSTER cups in that base! Going to be some large jets eh? Going to need a monster pump to create the impingment effect effectivly but if you get it working right it should be pretty good. Looks like a P4 block to cover the spreader? Might be a bit overkill but it is looking good. Nice work so far.

09-19-2003, 07:12 PM	#5
Cathar Thermophile Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 2,538	I'm personally concerned that the base-plate is a little too thin for the size of the cups, but given that it'll be used atop a P4 with an IHS, then I guess it'll be okay. When sitting atop a bare-die CPU the base is of sub-optimal thickness. I would've chosen around a 2.0mm base at the thinnest for holes of that size, and possibly as thick as 3.0mm depending on the target jet velocity. Still, good work though. 30 cups of 6mm in diameter. I do have some thoughts on what the jet ID and other jet configuration specifics should be, but they're only what I'd call "starting points" and may not necessarily apply to such a scaled up version. I'd probably aim for a 5/64" jet ID as a starting point, although 3/32" is also decent. I'd favor the 5/64" jet purely because jet velocity is higher, even though the jet:cup width ratio is a bit out, but again, may be a completely different story for the sizes being dealt with here compared to what I'm used to. 30 x 5/64" holes gives around a 93mm^2 total jet orifice area, which is right up there. You want a total jet orifice area at least below around 70mm^2 to be gaining any real acceleration benefit for purposes of impingement over the standard incoming water velocity.

09-22-2003, 09:12 AM	#8
nOv1c3 Crazy Stupid Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Dallas texas Posts: 149	Okay Its monday we want updates hehe I,m impressed Very nice machine work there MMZ_TimeLord looking very good

09-22-2003, 09:13 AM	#9
nOv1c3 Crazy Stupid Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Dallas texas Posts: 149	hmm

09-22-2003, 09:14 AM	#10
nOv1c3 Crazy Stupid Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Dallas texas Posts: 149	dont ask me what hapen triple post lol

09-22-2003, 11:31 AM	#11
MMZ_TimeLord Cooling Savant Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: San Mateo, CA, USA, Earth Posts: 433	Yeah, didn't get in until late last night... too hot here and I was beat. No pictures up yet. I'll try to do that during my lunch. __________________ MMZ>TimeLord "Oooooooooh... that's gonna leave a mark!"

09-23-2003, 01:41 AM	#12
MMZ_TimeLord Cooling Savant Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: San Mateo, CA, USA, Earth Posts: 433	Okay... here's the pictures I MEANT to post sunday when I was just dog tired and it was hotter than an oven. Machining the middle plate (Acrylic)... First dozen jets are cut... Block used to sand each jet to the same length... (Jet sticking half way out) Jet in the middle plate... I slightly flared the end that in the Acrylic so the water pressure doesn't push them through. Here is the infamous broken tap... still working out how to save this baseplate. Finally... on friday I got my new radiator (heater core) from www.leakycar.com (Core # 2-302 on this page) Modified tubes of the core... Installed... still need to clean up the box area so it's more properly sealed. That's it for today... I'm going to try and remove that broken tap tomorrow... wish me luck... __________________ MMZ>TimeLord "Oooooooooh... that's gonna leave a mark!"

09-23-2003, 04:25 AM	#13
pippin88 Cooling Savant Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 285	Looks like you might be able to back it out with some really fine pliers?

09-23-2003, 08:53 AM	#14
MMZ_TimeLord Cooling Savant Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: San Mateo, CA, USA, Earth Posts: 433	Nah... I was backing it out when it broke. I should have drilled out the holes a little more for tapping. I will probably have to mill off the tip on the other side and then drill it out. __________________ MMZ>TimeLord "Oooooooooh... that's gonna leave a mark!"

09-23-2003, 09:48 AM	#15
msv Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Sweden Posts: 336	I broke an M3 tap in my base plate this saturday and planned to drill it out. I tried to punch a dimple in the tap end with a chisel, but instead I whacked out the broken tap. I redrilled the hole and tapped it with an M4 tap instead. regards Mikael S. __________________ The only constant factor in all Your failures is You. Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnen mihi habis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.

09-23-2003, 11:44 PM	#16
MMZ_TimeLord Cooling Savant Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: San Mateo, CA, USA, Earth Posts: 433	Welp... Carbon Steel Alloy is WAY harder than I anticipated... I ended up grinding down the tip of the broken tap. Then using the hardest punch I had... I pounded it back out the way it went in. This created four slots in the hole... but it will still hold the bolts for the clamping pressure I'm looking at. Here are some updated pictures from tonight... The top and middle acrylic plates are almost done... I have 10 of the jets flared and installed. Here are the three plates. another view... Lastly a basic test fit... some of my jet to hole alignment is off a bit. (Don't worry about that hole breaking through... I'm gonna glue an acrylic tube there so it won't be open. Hope to have the rest of the jets cut to length and the block polished and put together tomorrow. __________________ MMZ>TimeLord "Oooooooooh... that's gonna leave a mark!"

09-24-2003, 12:01 AM	#17
maxim Cooling Savant Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: VA Tech Posts: 111	how did you go about making those jets to stay in the plexi? flared the top? with what, pliers? do you think the water will flow with enough pressure to the outer jets? the holes are pretty big and the water might not wanna spread that far out from the center.

09-24-2003, 01:36 AM	#18
MMZ_TimeLord Cooling Savant Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: San Mateo, CA, USA, Earth Posts: 433	I used an endmill (1/16 inch) which has an 1/8 inch shaft... I just used the shaft about an 1/8th of an inch into the tube and pulled it at an angle around in a circle... copper is soft so it flares. Not right away, but after about 10 circles. I'm not concerned with the loss of pressure at the outer jets. I just want to see how this will work. Probably better than the block I have now. We will see... that's why I'm making it. __________________ MMZ>TimeLord "Oooooooooh... that's gonna leave a mark!"

09-24-2003, 08:28 AM	#19
FL3JM Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Sweden Posts: 66	I have to agree with maxim, the outer holes won't do any good imo. They will just restrict the waterflow that is coming out of the center jets. I suggest you make some plugs to plug some holes, that way you can test how many holes is the most efficient design. I think you will only need the most central jets since the core is not that big and you will only loose that valuable pressure if you use more jets (no matter the flow rate of your pump). Well that is at least what i think, i may be completely wrong, i am just one of those 'lurkers'.

09-25-2003, 11:43 AM	#20
MMZ_TimeLord Cooling Savant Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: San Mateo, CA, USA, Earth Posts: 433	Very little to update this morning... did drill out the bolt holes in the acrylic and get some things lined up. FL3JM & maxim, This block is for a P4 with the IHS in place. This is just to give me some experience building this type of block before I commit to building a smaller jet version. I do not care about the flow to the outer jets as the flow through this will be WAY better than this block I currently have in place. This is what I am building... They are both based on a 2 inch by 3 inch, ½ inch thick block of copper for a base. Now you tell me... is this gonna be better for flow? Flow right now is what is hurting my system. :shrug: __________________ MMZ>TimeLord "Oooooooooh... that's gonna leave a mark!"

09-25-2003, 05:31 PM	#22
FL3JM Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Sweden Posts: 66	You can remove the HS (if you dare). The HS on the p4's are really some sloppy jobs. They but a big blob of some cheapo thermal grease, then push the HS on the core along with some superstrong glue on the sides of the HS. Well anyway, i believe most of you guys allready knew that. :]

09-26-2003, 01:43 AM	#24
MMZ_TimeLord Cooling Savant Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: San Mateo, CA, USA, Earth Posts: 433	Update! Welp... got the other 18 jets cut and smoothed out... flared and installed. Did a test run in the sink from my filtered water faucet... only 12 Gallons a minute flow... As you can see (sorta blurry) the center jets are indeed getting the most pressure... BUT, this is without the "cups". Other views... Jets installed... Inlet and Outlets installed and the two acrylic sections glued together. Finally... top section sitting on the baseplate with silicon II tub and tile sealant drying. I filled in that 1/16" channel with it and am just letting the weight of the top spread it. When it's cured 12 hours, I will put the screws in to clamp it down and seal it. That's all for tonight... and BTW... I don't wanna risk my P4 by prying off the IHS... but, yeah, I know it can be done. Again, this is just a test block anyway. __________________ MMZ>TimeLord "Oooooooooh... that's gonna leave a mark!"

09-26-2003, 01:48 AM	#25
maxim Cooling Savant Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: VA Tech Posts: 111	hot shit. all these DIY jet blocks popping up make me wanna try my hand at them so im deffinetelly looking forward to seeing the results:

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