New dangerden block

[Roscal]

A copy of the Dtek WW , nozzle could be changed :





Codename: dangerden RBX

[jaydee]

Any idea if they asked if they could use the design?

[Roscal]

I don't think so...

[jaydee]

Damn that's pretty low if they didn't. I will wait for more info though before I start the "boycott DD" compaign.

Also appears to be some pretty sloppy milling on those fins, might just be a optical illusion through the lucite though.

[g.l.amour]

if one thinks about it logically, it was only a matter of time before WW clones would be popping up everywhere. let's hope cathar got some royalties here, if not all the more credit to dtek for doing it the right way...

[winewood]

it doesnt appear to be an exact copy.. besides by stating they needed permission is like saying, anyone who used fins must get permission from Cathar.

That would mean Rotor would get the pin patent..

even though BOTH people wernt the first to use the designs.

Now if they used the exact fin spacing and the same base height then that is bordering on a copy cat. Do we know the exact details yet?

[jaydee]

Originally posted by winewood
besides by stating they needed permission is like saying, anyone who used fins must get permission from Cathar.

Not saying they need permission, I am saying they should ASK for it if they plan to sell it. This is a very close version of the White Water...to close. Also it is not the fins that are the issue, it is how they are used. The Maze 4 used fins aswell, no problem with that one however because it was semi original.

Seems to me their Maze 4 was such a flop they needed something better. Why waste time designing when you can just rippoff the White Water and use the success of the White Water for free marketing?

No matter how they made this decision I am unimpressed by it. It will, however, be interesting to see a comparisons between this and the real White Water!

I imagine this will not be cheap either. That takes sometime to mill the outside down like that even on a good mill. Unless they are getting them die cut.

Where did these pics come from?

[MadHacker]

Originally posted by winewood
Now if they used the exact fin spacing and the same base height then that is bordering on a copy cat. Do we know the exact details yet?

other then the obvious moral issues, is there any reason why someone would not be able to recreate the WW and sell it?

[jaydee]

Originally posted by MadHacker
other then the obvious moral issues, is there any reason why someone would not be able to recreate the WW and sell it?

Cathar has intellectual property rights on it. I imagine he could act on it but I doubt it would be worth it for him to do it. DD is way late on this anyway.

I am suprised DD isn't working on something better suited for the next gen CPU's.

[winewood]

agreed. I see no way legally that he could get a dime :|
Which is unfortunate. I can't say that I am suprised by this though. It was just a matter of time.
The irony though, is that no one will know the backlash of this. I mean if they sell it at $42 or so.. then thats $13 cheaper. So the question is, will people prefer the 'moral' high road and be out the money, or just opt for a proven design.

[jaydee]

Originally posted by winewood
agreed. I see no way legally that he could get a dime :|
Which is unfortunate. I can't say that I am suprised by this though. It was just a matter of time.
The irony though, is that no one will know the backlash of this. I mean if they sell it at $42 or so.. then thats $13 cheaper. So the question is, will people prefer the 'moral' high road and be out the money, or just opt for a proven design.

I don't see how they could sell one for $40ish and make money on them. Thats a hell of a lot of milling on that not to mention the tops. I would bet, if they make it to market, they will be around $55-$60.

Also most people don't know the background of the White Water to even make a moral decision on it. If they where informed then I would bet most people would take the moral route (maybe optomistic). I am sure we buy stuff every day under the same circumstances. :shrug: We do know the background but I doubt the majority of people buying WC gear have any clue what so ever.

[Rayman2k2]

the thing is, when some one sees it, they will remember cathar, it's not the D-Tek WW, it's not the DD WW, it's cathar's WW, and it always will be, no matter how hard they try...

[WaterPimp]

if you follow the attached link you will see prototype for the DD - RBX, After many more hours of R&D, I finialized the base design. And with the help of a couple un-named people, we created the changable acceleration assembly so that YOU can customize the RBX to perform at its best for YOUR system.

http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/sho...&threadid=7112

BTW there will be an official release of the RBX within the next 12-24 hours (@DD). You can see all the details there that make the RBX a very unique block.

[winewood]

Ahhh coool. I had no idea that DDen posted here ever. Can't wait to see how this performs. Hopefully for you guys, you will be able to provide something beyond the standard WW. Does it beat it? Tricks or not, thats what people will care about bottom line.

[WaterPimp]

actually I don't work for DD,

Here is another link to rev 2 of the RBX notice that the blocks have been in R&D for some time.

http://forums.pimprig.com/showthread...&threadid=8684

[winewood]

So DDen is purchasing this design from you??? Or did you just 'give' it to them?


from the upper pictures it looks like ww style fins, but from the pimprig forum pics they look quite different. Which style are you going with?

[BillA]

curious that WaterPimp is unable/unwilling to credit Cather as being the source of that concept

ah ethics, the ignored philosophy

[winewood]

thing is bill... does it matter in the long run to the perception of the market? Thats the true question. I think this shows that you just cant patent waterblocks. Or if you fail to, then people will immediately copy it. When is Swiftechs version coming out?

edit: just was thinking.. if he did credit Cathar, would it make any difference as im sure Cathar isnt making a cent off this.

[BillA]

that’s not what I was referring to,
simply acknowledging the source of the concept, a tip of the hat

now it would indeed be a 'chuckle' if WaterPimp has re-hashed the WW, and gotten DD to pay him for it

hi ho (Vonnegut)

[WaterPimp]

Hello bill, I am a design engineer by profession. And I have one thing to say, Unless Cather invented the line and arc, then he too should be giving credit to someone.

Everything is designed from something else, do you see Ford giving Chevy props? Or McDonalds saying thanks to the invertor of the hamberger?

Cather has done a great job, and so will others.

[joemac]

Originally posted by WaterPimp
Hello bill, I am a design engineer by profession. And I have one thing to say, Unless Cather invented the line and arc, then he too should be giving credit to someone.

Everything is designed from something else, do you see Ford giving Chevy props? Or McDonalds saying thanks to the invertor of the hamberger?

Cather has done a great job, and so will others.

Very true - I would like to thank the guy who invented fins and pins LOL

[bigben2k]

Actually, Cathar did thank me (among many others). Here's how:

[Since87]

Originally posted by WaterPimp
I am a design engineer by profession.

So if this block was "engineered", I presume you can tell us with reasonable accuracy how it performs in comparison to a White Water block. Right?

[Player0]

I've had this block for a couple weeks now, and this is NO White Water block. It actually performs at Cascade levels. I don't know why you guys think this is a White Water copy. It's really a natural progression of waterblock design, and look at the Maze3. It has a very similar design to the White Water. Put a barb in the middle and its VERY similar.

The manufacturing process required to make the RBX is very complex, because of the intricasy of the internal turbulance fins. The white water fins look pretty much just straight.

The RBX also has interchangable jets, which is CERTAINLY a unique design, although granted, the Cascade was the first to have a decent jetting system. But again, it's a natural progression, and waterblock designs are always built on the ideas of others. How many ideas did Cathar use from other people when designing his blocks?

Not that im saying anything bad about Cathar or his blocks, they are amazing. But I think its VERY unfair to diss the RBX simply because it has similar features to other blocks on the market. How often has DangerDen been copied in the past?

For small-die cooling, the RBX, in my testing, is the best block for the buck. And they'll be mass produced so they'll be much easier to get, at least here in the states.

I'll hopefully have my review on liquidninjas.com very soon. I've owned dozens and dozens of waterblocks in my time, and I can tell you, the RBX is unique. And I get nothing from DangerDen to say that.

[Blackeagle]

Player0

You state that this RBX block performs at Cascade levels. What was your method of determining this? Could you please spec your testing bench set up, and the accuracy of the various components it's made up from?

I'll look forward to readiny your review of this RBX block. Can you give a tenative date for this to be posted?