Well, now that satanicoo's totally confused... :p

Ya probably so.

skulemate: im not confused, im completely sure! sure that i know nothing :P ....

pHaestus: your last post was pretty noobi-proof :P, now i know what i will built. a silent, but not ultra-silent system.

so, ill go for the intermediate setup you specified:

-rad: BIX;
-pump: CM30P7-1
-tubes: tygon 1/2';
-fan: 172mm 24v @ 12V;
-cpu element: Paul Vodrazka's home-made waterblock or MCW5000 or white water :P

hell dont get mad at me after so many posts i decided to go almoust all from pHaestus...

I wouldn't use the 172mm fan with the 120mm black ice extreme. If you have room for the big fan, then go with a heatercore. You should see at least 2-3C drop in water temps with a heatercore and quiet fans compared to a bix and quiet fans. If you just dont have the space then use the BI Extreme and a 120mm fan.

Or build one of these, and push it to your lan parties:

http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/sho...0&pagenumber=1

It won't cost you $1100, either!

(I am being entirely sarcastic, btw)

I agree with Nexxo on using the johnson pump. When the jabsco i have is on its last leg i will be getting the johnson.

And BigBen is our resident heatercore dude.
I would go with a heatercore instead of the BIX. Not just for the cost but for the perfromance. I using a heatercore from a 1984 Ford Escort. with one 172in fan.

Hey soon to be first timer here who did a fair amount of reading so perhapse i can help you.

I've got a white water block in the mail right now so if you can wait a week i can let you know how its performing.

I can say that 1/2in tygon kicks total ass, you won't regret buying that.

My pump is a monster that makes a fairly strong deep hum so i can't offer advice on that end. (Little Giant 2E-N for those who care)

For a rad I'm just using your standard heater core with a 5v'ed 120. No noise there.

I don't think anybody explained why a shroud is important to you yet. Basicly it breaks down like this. The radiator works by exposing a very large surface area of water to moving air. The more surface area you expose the more water you will cool and the lower your temps will be. If you place the fan directly up against the rad you will be in effect only using 1/2 of the rad's potential because the fan will only be moving air through half of the possible surface area. All the fins that are blocked by the center hub of the fan as well as those that are outside the circle of the actual blades will not recieve any air flow. A shroud is like a short tunnel that goes from the rad to the fan. It allows the fan to draw air through all of the radiator's fins. This means you can cool your water better which means you need less air flow which means you can use a slower fan which leads to the overall goal of less noise.

Hope that made sense.

hehe back...

ok ok ok...

pHaestus: i have room for the 172 fan (i have 180x180 room) so ill go for the heatercore;

airspirit: OMFG! WOW! YIKES!! what are you going to cool down? PACIFIC OCEAN?? :P:P:P

Stepback: johnson! johnson! johnson! johnson!
ey BigBen: what heater core (max size 180x180) ? :)

Dan_Dude: thanks for the specialy detailed post about the shroud, in fact i do know what a shroud is needed for, i only didnt know what the word meant, but hey, im sure this could clarify dumb like me (D0H :P ).

I still have plenty of time, checking an kryo's machine (check it here )

so, my setup is this now:

-rad: Heatercore;
-pump: CM30P7-1
-tubes: tygon 1/2';
-fan: 172mm 24v @ 12V;
-cpu element: Paul Vodrazka's home-made waterblock or MCW5000 or white water :P

if anyone wants to explain me the diference between an Heatercore and an Radiator, would be welcome :)

gimme ideas!
Keep bumping them!

Model# Height Width Thickness Inlet Outlet
2-524 6.25 6.375 1 0.75 0.75
2-761 6.625 6.1875 1.625 0.625 0.625
2-718 6.125 6.5 1.75 0.625 0.625
2-656 6.125 6.5 1.75 0.625 0.625
2-652 6.25 6.375 1.75 0.625 0.625
2-698 6.25 6.5 1.75 0.625 0.625
2-655 6.25 6.5 1.75 0.625 0.625
2-635 6.25 6.5 1.75 0.625 0.625
2-653 6.25 6.5 1.75 0.75 0.75
2-546 6.125 6.125 2 0.625 0.625
2-594 6.25 6.125 2 0.625 0.625
2-545 6.25 6.125 2 0.625 0.625
2-555 6.25 6.125 2 0.625 0.625
2-593 6.25 6.125 2 0.625 0.625
2-601 6.25 6.125 2 0.625 0.625
2-579 6.25 6.5 2 0.625 0.625
2-577 6.375 6.25 2 0.625 0.625
2-600 6.375 6.375 2 0.625 0.625
2-699 6.5 6.375 2 0.625 0.625
2-338 6.75 6.5 2 0.625 0.625
2-339 6.75 6.5 2 0.625 0.625
2-548 6.25 6.125 2.625 0.625 0.5
2-549 6.25 6.375 2.625 0.625 0.5
2-547 6.375 6.75 2.625 0.625 0.625
2-554 6.375 6.75 2.625 0.625 0.625


2-549 has a peculiar in/outlet configuration.

Pick one out, and I'll list the cars.

huummnnn... owww.... aammnnn.... any european cars? :P

how bout that... 2-549 one?

Go to www.heatercore4u.com, pick any heatercore, then replace the model# you want in the URL.

Here's the complete list, with car models:
Model# Height Width Thickness Inlet Outlet Make Model Years
2-338 6.75 6.5 2 0.625 0.625 Plymouth HORIZON & TURISOMO 78-89
2-338 6.75 6.5 2 0.625 0.625 Plymouth RAMPAGE 82-84
2-338 6.75 6.5 2 0.625 0.625 Plymouth SCAMP 83
2-338 6.75 6.5 2 0.625 0.625 Dodge CHARGER 81-87
2-338 6.75 6.5 2 0.625 0.625 Dodge OMNI 78-89
2-339 6.75 6.5 2 0.625 0.625 Plymouth HORIZON & TURISOMO 78-80
2-339 6.75 6.5 2 0.625 0.625 Dodge OMNI 78-80
2-524 6.25 6.375 1 0.75 0.75 Chevy Truck ASTRO & SAFARI 85-99
2-545 6.25 6.125 2 0.625 0.625 Plymouth SAPPORO 78-79
2-545 6.25 6.125 2 0.625 0.625 Plymouth CHAMP 79-82
2-545 6.25 6.125 2 0.625 0.625 Mitsubishi PICKUP 83-86
2-545 6.25 6.125 2 0.625 0.625 Plymouth ARROW TRUCK 79-80
2-545 6.25 6.125 2 0.625 0.625 Dodge CHALLENGER 78-79
2-545 6.25 6.125 2 0.625 0.625 Dodge COLT 77-79
2-545 6.25 6.125 2 0.625 0.625 Dodge Truck D-50 & RAM 50 79-86
2-545 6.25 6.125 2 0.625 0.625 Plymouth ARROW TRUCK 81-82
2-545 6.25 6.125 2 0.625 0.625 Plymouth ARROW PASS. 78-80
2-546 6.125 6.125 2 0.625 0.625 Plymouth ARROW PASS. 76-77
2-547 6.375 6.75 2.625 0.625 0.625 Nissan 310 79-82
2-548 6.25 6.125 2.625 0.625 0.5 Nissan 210 76-79
2-549 6.25 6.375 2.625 0.625 0.5 Nissan 510 78-81
2-549 6.25 6.375 2.625 0.625 0.5 Nissan 210 80-82
2-554 6.375 6.75 2.625 0.625 0.625 Nissan 200SX 77-79
2-554 6.375 6.75 2.625 0.625 0.625 Nissan B210 74-78
2-555 6.25 6.125 2 0.625 0.625 Nissan 720 PICK UP 80-83
2-577 6.375 6.25 2 0.625 0.625 Mazda RX7 79-85
2-579 6.25 6.5 2 0.625 0.625 Mazda 626 83-87
2-593 6.25 6.125 2 0.625 0.625 Toyota LANDCRUISER 81-85
2-593 6.25 6.125 2 0.625 0.625 Toyota LANDCRUISER 69-80
2-594 6.25 6.125 2 0.625 0.625 Toyota CELICA 76-81
2-594 6.25 6.125 2 0.625 0.625 Toyota CELICA 82-85
2-600 6.375 6.375 2 0.625 0.625 Toyota CORONA 79-82
2-601 6.25 6.125 2 0.625 0.625 Toyota CELICA 81-86
2-635 6.25 6.5 1.75 0.625 0.625 Mitsubishi PRECIS 87-89
2-635 6.25 6.5 1.75 0.625 0.625 Hyundai EXCEL 86-89
2-652 6.25 6.375 1.75 0.625 0.625 Geo SPECTRUM 85-90
2-652 6.25 6.375 1.75 0.625 0.625 Isuzu I-MARK 85-89
2-653 6.25 6.5 1.75 0.75 0.75 Geo STORM 90-93
2-653 6.25 6.5 1.75 0.75 0.75 Isuzu IMPULSE 90-93
2-653 6.25 6.5 1.75 0.75 0.75 Isuzu STYLUS 91-93
2-655 6.25 6.5 1.75 0.625 0.625 Hyundai PONY 85-89
2-656 6.125 6.5 1.75 0.625 0.625 Hyundai STELLAR 85-89
2-698 6.25 6.5 1.75 0.625 0.625 Isuzu RODEO 93-95
2-698 6.25 6.5 1.75 0.625 0.625 Nissan PATHFINDER 88-92
2-698 6.25 6.5 1.75 0.625 0.625 Isuzu PICK-UP 88-95
2-698 6.25 6.5 1.75 0.625 0.625 Isuzu AMIGO 89-94
2-698 6.25 6.5 1.75 0.625 0.625 Honda PASSPORT 94
2-698 6.25 6.5 1.75 0.625 0.625 Isuzu PICK-UP 90-92
2-699 6.5 6.375 2 0.625 0.625 Nissan 720 PICK UP 83-86
2-718 6.125 6.5 1.75 0.625 0.625 Kia SPORTAGE 96-00
2-761 6.625 6.1875 1.625 0.625 0.625 Plymouth PLYMOUTH - MINI VAN, VOYAGER 96-00
2-761 6.625 6.1875 1.625 0.625 0.625 Dodge Truck DODGE CARAVAN 96-99
2-761 6.625 6.1875 1.625 0.625 0.625 Chrysler TOWN & COUNTRY 96-99

Looks like I started a revolution with the Johnson pump... :D

I concurr with the others: If you have space, go for a heatercore instead of a BIX. I have a BIX only due to space considerations.

Cathar's White Water block certainly kicks ass; Paul Vodrazka's Phaze 2 is actually designed roughly around similar principles (straight, parallel grooves between inlet and outlet) but I don't know how the two would compare... both are so scarce and expensive (though worth every penny) I don't think anyone would have one of each lying about for a comparison...

Anyway, Paul Vodrazka is still selling his blocks, as far as I know. Search his thread on this forum and e-mail him for details. Expect to pay $120,-- USD for one or $200,-- for two.

How good is that crazy PC 12V pump compared to an Eheim 1250? It looks nice, but if longevity is a concern, it seems iffy to buy one. How about the other Jabscos? Would they be adequate for pumping one of the White Water blocks?

While I don't know the specifications of the Jabscos, the White Water was outperforming the Maze 3 when the White Water was running with 0.25gpm when the Maze 3 was running with 2.0gpm in my own tests.

It would take a pretty feeble pump to just pump a mere 0.25gpm through the system.

Impressive. What kind of conditions was the block tested? Were they fairly well controlled?

As well controlled as I can get it. Not a BillA setup by a long, long shot. I developed the block and refined it using my setup so it was accurate enough for me to pick 0.5C differences and be reasonably confident in the results, but not 100% confident.

heh cathar, whats the cost of a white water unit? :P

Voodoo: Read my thread here if you want more info on the jabsco pump. I beleive the Crazy PC pump is the same one.

http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/sho...&threadid=3321

Voodoo: believe me, longevity and reliability are not a worry. The Jabsco 59500-0012 and Johnson CM30P7-1 are built around the same magnetic drive principles as the Eheim. Holding it in my hand, the Johnson appears built like a tank. Both it and the Jabsco are meant to circulate engine coolant in fuel combustion engines. They're continuously rated and designed to work in environments where they are exposed to heat, vibrations and being knocked about.

Just like an Eheim failing would mean several thousands of pounds/dollars of dead tropical fish, a Jabsco or Johnson failing could mean several thousands of pounds/dollars of dead engine. In a survey of high-performance engine tuning the Jabsco came out as the favorite coolant pump of motor geeks (link)...

http://www.sportmachines.com/albums/..._107.sized.jpg

...so I guess they must be OK... :D

Alright, you've got me convinced.

The only problem is to convert those 20mm OD, 15mm ID pump connectors to 1/2" tubing... but that problem is easily solved.

Once reading up on the dark art of thread measurments, I found that NPT and BSPT thread measurements refer to the inside diameter of the connector, rather than (as you would logically expect) its outside diameter (= the internal diameter of the pipe it would fit into). D'oh!

Consulting a reference table (find one e.g. :here:) I found that 3/8" NPT or BSPT will do the trick nicely, accomodating a 15-16mm hole very well (as the threads taper slightly to ensure a good seal, it's OK for inside measurements not to be critically exact).

Despite having identical diameters, BSPT and NPT are not interchangeable, the former having a 55 degree angle between screw thread ridges, and the latter a 60 degree angle. This piece of knowledge is irrelevant to our application, of course; either will do. All we have to do is make sure we tap the inside of the pump connectors with the appropriate NPT or BSPT tap.

So: just get 3/8" NPT or BSPT to 1/2" barb threaded adapters, and that's it!