The best waterblock ever

[satanicoo]

hi there.

From what i have read, there are here some real pros at water cooling.

i want the BEST watercooler ever, and i will post the items i itent to buy. i can spend 1100$

Still, there are some requirements that i want to keep:

-rad must be 1 fan only;
-pump must be an underwater one, and i would like it very much that it worked at 12v (from computer own power suply);

whith that said, here it goes:

-rad: Black ice Extreme;
-pump:not very convinced, thinking about this one:
http://www.crazypc.com/Merchant2/mer...duct_Code=9332
-tubes: tygon 1/2';
-fan: panaflo 120mm;

is it anything wrong here? or forgotten?
any advices? its for a p4 2400, and i have 1100$ to spend...

gimme ideas

[bytesyzed]

Don't know about the numbers on a BIX, but you might want to check out http://www.lytron.com They have some fairly detailed charts that give performance ratings on their products based on flow rate and the amount of air pushed through (I think they just used a standardized ambient temp). From what I've read, Lytron offers some of the best solutions for heat dissipation so from just comparing with their products, it might give you a better picture of how your setup will likely perform.

[pHaestus]

If you wanna spend big dollars on cooling, skip watercooling altogether and get a phase change setup. Why spend $300 on top of the line water to get CPU temps 10C over room temp, when you can spend $500 and get CPU temps much much lower. If you have extra money to blow then pick up a waterblock for video card as well and run a second loop for that.

[SonixOS]

or buy my waterchiller for start. 350 shipped. http://imagesite.ihelix.net:85/sonix/waterchiller/

[pHaestus]

Sonix stop spamming the forums with your crappy chiller

[FuzzyFace]

The description of the pump you specified says it’s an in line pump. It does not say you can use it as a submersible You should e-mail them to make sure about using it under water.

[g.l.amour]

hey, it might be possible that satanico wants a near silent system. don't know about all phase change setups, but i hear the promethia isn't that silent.

anyway @ satanico

if i were you, toss the BIX, i know it is tempting and in europe it is hard to get anything else. but you can buy a perfekt new heatercore from http://www.dtekcustoms.com/ or wreck an old car and grab one yourself for some really low €€.

if u want submersible pump, take a look at the new low-cost eheim products. they are being sold in local aquarium stores, they do 1000lph at 20W at 2m head. they are about 5 x smaller than a eheim1250 with allmost same specs (and did i mention they cost about 4 x less than the eheim 1250 too?)

[jamicon]

Phase Change Can be Silent!

My Old Freezer runs almost silent when it turns itself on, if you put it in a box (say MDF) it would be silent, if not, a little bit of sound absorbtion would be

But i say phase change would be the way to go

[satanicoo]

hello there! happy to see so many replies, cool guys!

so, heres some argumentation:

bytesysed: im only sure about this one, BIX is one of the best rad around (1 fan) if not the best... ill stick with this one unless justified one of the ones u posted are better ( dunno but BIX costs 2x more...)

phaestus and jamicon: im going for a water cooling solution, i cannot explain why, it would take a few hours and lots of typing... anyway thanks

fuzzyface hummmnnnn you are right! nowhere is said that it is an underwater pump ( anyone have sujestions?? please, a 12v solution would be prefered, if not:
-g.l.amour makes some very very good statements, but what you think about the new swiftech mcp300 pump?

OMG: im so dumb, how about a cpu element!

i was thinking of swiftech MCW5000...

so, this would be:

-rad: Black ice Extreme;
-pump:not very convinced, thinking about this one:
http://www.crazypc.com/Merchant2/me...oduct_Code=9332
-tubes: tygon 1/2';
-fan: panaflo 120mm;
-cpu element: Swiftech mcw5000

but theres been so much issue about swiftech mcw5000 and mcw462-uh.... which one is best?

any other 12v pump?

im only buying this godly items so that, in the near future where cpus comsume 150 watts, ill be prepared

gimme sugestions! thanks!

[pHaestus]

If you want the best radiator ever, then I would assume that would mean it should hold water close to room temperature, with quiet fans, and not be very restrictive to flow. There are better choices than the BIX for this. You need to refine your definition of "best". Can't have the quietest, most high performance, most compact unit. Clarify goals first.

[airspirit]

The BIX is not the best out there. It is probably the best for its size, but not the best period. The guy that suggested a Lytron is right. You can get a nice sized Lytron radiator (copper) that you can mount one fan on that would blow the BIX out of the water.

Before anybody can help you here, though, we need to know what your goals are. Are you looking for a silent PC? A massive overclocker? A freezer with a DVD Drive? A piece of eye candy that really won't be used, just shown off? What do you want in the end? Once you tell us that, we can start to give you targetted input.

[nikhsub1]

If H20 is the way you want to go, the best performing block I have ever used is the White Water made by Cathar, a forum member here. I would guesstimate it outperforms all commercially available blocks by some 3 - 6C. Another question, do you want this to all fit inside a case or external?

[satanicoo]

hehe ok...

i want a silent pc. inside of silent pc i want the best cooling system. but must be silent.

i will put a 120 mm fan named panaflo and the reduce voltage to about 7 volts.

ok, the rad must be the size of the BIX, it must have a MAX size of 180*180 mm. profundity it can go up to 80 mm.

i thought BIX was low restrictive to flow, since it is a true 1/2' tube right? i dunno...

the only 1 fan rad in lytron's page is aspen, wich looks... weaker than BIX, but if its better, ill go fot that.

it will everithing work INSIDE the case, because it will be transportated to some lan parties.Thats why i want an 12v pump.

Yes, looks would be cool too but thats secondary.

H20 the way i want to go? ok i confess im a noob... (in case no one has noted :P ) if you mean water,yes thats it, so i should go to that one!

So, this is what it is looking now:

-rad: Lytron's Aspen;
-pump:not very convinced, thinking about this one:
http://www.crazypc.com/Merchant2/me...oduct_Code=9332
-tubes: tygon 1/2';
-fan: panaflo 120mm;
-cpu element: white water;

gimme more ideas!

edit: BTW, i was going for BIX and MCW5000 because i would like to base my water cooler in 1/2' tubes instead of 3/8' , more flow, same fan, more cooling with same noise right?

[pHaestus]

Your goals are not as initially stated then. Your radiator is not especially well suited to the task of silence or absolute top performance. It IS suited to being the size of a BIX. If you have $1100 to spend on H2O, perhaps start with a case sized to fit a larger radiator? The Becooling 12x5 with turbulators inside is the best choice for low flow rate, low airflow cooling. Barring that, a heatercore will do much better with quieter fans due to its much larger surface area. The BIX has fairly dense fins and is relatively small for a heat exchanger. You will need a somewhat noisy fan to get decent performance from it (I think HWLabs recommends 100CFM).

No such thing as a free ride; the parameters are size, noise, and performance, and they are all related.

If I were building a super quiet system, I would use either the Becooling 12x5 with 2 120mm Panaflo L1A fans (on a potentiometer for adjusting) or a heatercore with a single 172mm fan (24V and undervolted to 7-12V). In both cases, a 1" shroud minimum.

[satanicoo]

noted...

saved...

But i will keep the case, because i like the comodity of having a small box. be assured that it will be modded in a way that the fan will get fresh air from outside the box and expel it directly outside the box, not in it.

what heatercore do you recomend?
what is a heatercore? (lol jk)

1" shroud? what is a shroud?

ok, and that fan 172mm looks good... ill go for that one, i hope it works with 12 volts;

im not looking for a super super silent cooler... i want a cooler that is silent, but im not gona get mad with some wisper from the fans...

you agree with the white water element?

now it looks like:

-rad: heatercore;
-pump:not very convinced, thinking about this one:
http://www.crazypc.com/Merchant2/me...oduct_Code=9332
-tubes: tygon 1/2';
-fan: 172mm 24v @ 12V;
-cpu element: white water;

gimme even more thoughts

[airspirit]

There is a thread in this forum where you can download a database of heatercores. If you have MS Access, it allows you to search using size parameters to let you find the core size you are looking for. It'll then tell you what vehicles they are on so you can get them at your parts store, or you can order them from www.heatercore4u.com . Start there.

[bigben2k]

I'd forget about the submerged pump. The pump you listed is the smallest/best pump you'll find. It's external, but you should be able to fit it. Stepback is using one.

You're all set, really. You just need to find a heatercore (check out the "European heatercore" thread), and get to work!

Is this $1'100 budget for the whole computer?

You never specified which case you have. Do you have a picture, or a link? Dimensions?

You never said if you were looking to overclock anything. Are you?

A shroud is a box that fits over the face of the heatercore. It puts a 1 inch space between the fan and the heatercore, so that the air can flow nicely out of the fan, and into the heatercore.

[nexxo]

I'd go with Paul Vodrazka's home-made waterblock; it outperforms the Spir@l, which is a block so good it is almost a benchmark product (see Paul's thread on this forum).

The BIX is good, but if size is not an issue, D-Tek Custom's Coolercore is just that bit better. Lytron stuff I don't know about, but it's bound to be good.

The pump CrazyPC is a Jabsco. It cannot be used as a submergible (why would you want to, anyway?), but it is a continuously rated, quiet, reliable 12V in-line pump. See Stepback's thread for more details. There you will also find my pump, a Johnson CM30P7-1, which is essentially the same family pump but with higher specs. Both are small enough to mount anywhere, but keep in mind they get rather warm in use (although that is normal, and the heat is not passed on to the coolant; it has also been found not to affect case temperatures in any way). There is no submersible 12V pump on the market (except the CPUfx/Overclockers Hideout one, which you want to avoid at all cost; it contains a marine bilge pump which is NOT continuously rated and thus highly unreliable).

The new Swiftech pump is a Sicce pump (the Idra), a quite good mains powered pump.

A heatercore is what DTek Customs calls a Coolercore.

A shroud is a spacer between fan and rad; a fan mounted too close will not be as efficient as there is a dead zone around the fan hub.

Undervolted fans, by the way, may need more Volts to start spinning than what they need to keep them spinning.

[bigdawginva]

The new Swiftech pump is a Sicce pump (the Idra), a quite good mains powered pump.

But, unfortunately, with a steel shaft instead of a ceramic one.

[phreenet]

Or get a decent water cooling system like the rest of the world enjoys and spend the rest of the money on getting an even better computer!
Seriously though, if you have $1100 to spend on cooling alone, you should really think about upgrading the computer that is to be cooled. You can never have enough

[satanicoo]

i loved that pump

CM30P7-1 shall be.

too bad i cant see consense about the cpu element, but if no one contests,ill go for that Paul Vodrazka's home-made waterblock: he is selling it right?

"But, unfortunately, with a steel shaft instead of a ceramic one"

whats a shaft? :P

-rad: heatercore;
-pump: CM30P7-1
-tubes: tygon 1/2';
-fan: 172mm 24v @ 12V;
-cpu element: Paul Vodrazka's home-made waterblock

gimme ideas!

edit: about the unvolted fans not spinning, since im an electronick guy, ill make a circuit that feeds completely the fan for a few seconds, so that she spins.

[bigben2k]

I don't think you're likely to find consensus on a "CPU element" (aka waterblock).

In Aussieland, it's either the Cyclone or Cathar's "white river". In the US, many people are partial to DangerDen. In Europe, well there are quite a few! The late comer is Atlantis and Neptune. There are also a nice series from Germany.

Personally, I prefer "Radius"...


For those who missed it, here's Stepback's thread

[Cathar]

Originally posted by satanicoo

too bad i cant see consense about the cpu element, but if no one contests,ill go for that Paul Vodrazka's home-made waterblock: he is selling it right?

The "White Water" block referred to above has a list of customer performance comparison findings which may be viewed here:

http://forums.overclockers.com.au/sh...hreadid=109948

You'll need to register to see the results, but it takes 1 minute and I think it'll be worth your while.

[Skulemate]

I know that pHaestus and airspirit have already said this, but I think it needs to be said again. Throwing money at a "problem" without first carefully considering your goals and forming a plan is more than likely going to cause to you waste a lot of cash. That said, I'm not sure that it's possible to "build the BEST watercooler ever" simply by buying the stuff that we suggest here... there's more to it than that in my opinion. Besides, in the end it all boils down to personal preference.

[pHaestus]

To make things more complicated:

The performance of water cooling components cannot be described by a single point; there is no "best". There can be a top performer for a given system, but this is a different question. Haven't tested Cathar's block (others results are quite encouraging, howeve. Of the blocks I have, the Innovatek rev3 is a clearly superior block at low flow rates (0.5-1GPM). If you combine this block, a Becooling 12x5 rad, an Eheim 1048 pump, and 2 Panaflo L1As, you will have an outstanding low noise, low flow rate setup for reasonable overclocking.

From BillA's data, the Swiftech MCW462-U performs above the other blocks he has tested at over 2GPM. I would think that if you combine that block, a powerful pump (Iwaki or Little Giant), and a large low flow resistance heatercore with either 2 high CFM 120s or 1 172mm fan then you will be pushing near the limits of watercooling. It will also be much larger, expensive, and noisier. This setup would, however, provide overhead for a peltier at a later date.

You could easily fall somewhere in between. Pick up a Black Ice extreme, a Panaflo H1A, the block of your choice, and choose a pump based on recommendations of users of that block. You will get more than acceptable temps with such, and may have an easier time fitting it in a system. It will be a bit noisier, however.

In practice, all of the blocks (other than a few stinkers) perform close enough to one another that differences in mounting mechanism, finish, cost, and even looks shape the final verdict in my mind.