Snap Server 2200 FOR SALE

[claque2200]

I surrender. This stuff is too hard for me.

I have a Snap Server 2200 2x160Gb upgraded to Snap OS 4.0.860 with Snap Extensions.

It worked like a charm for three years. Until I tried to upgrade it.

Following the instructions here I installed a new 500Gb HD. It formatted to correct size.

I broke the RAID array and copied all my data to the new drive. So far so good.

Then I installed the second new 500Gb HD and it wouldn't boot. I swapped the original 160Gb with the other one that I had just replaced.

Hurray! It booted up and all my data was still there. Great, but it was back to reporting a broken RAID mirror. So I instructed it to break the array again ("co de config individual 10000 10010"). Then it said it needed to reboot.

I rebooted and again it failed to reboot, just giving the 'diagnostic mode' blinks.

So swapped back the other original 160Gb drive.

Hurray! It booted up and showed two separate drives: the original and the new 500Gb, with data on both.

Like an idiot, I thought 'why don't I just check the disk to be safe?' OK, it says, reboot and I'll check. Again with the 'diagnostic mode' blinks.

Increasingly desperate, I removed the new drive and put both original drives back where they belonged. Still no luck.

I forced a 'reset' (Four times to clear all system settings).

Now I get the single-system double-disk blink that supposedly means "Snap! Server does not have IP Address; Waiting for a download in broadcast mode"

Both drives should be formatted with the OS. They each booted up yesterday.

Clearly I am way over my head.

So now it's for sale. Best offer takes it.

Thanks for your attention and all your help in the past,
DAR

dar_arcanum at yahoo dot com

[blue68f100]

Swap the drive positions it may boot back up.

[claque2200]

Thanks for your reply. I have swapped them.

I wonder if it even cares about the disks. There is supposedly a reset mode (six blinks?) that will boot up without mounting the disks. I tried that with the same result.

Yesterday it booted up from each one of the original drives in tandem with the upgrade drive. Only once, though. Each time rebooting led to diagnostic blinks.

I just feel like I strayed into a realm of clairvoyant experts. These debug commands, for instance-- if it weren't for these forums I wouldn't know they exist. Where is this stuff documented? I see the list of commands, but how do you guys know what they mean?

Anyhow, I would rather this device be useful to somebody who knows what they're doing than to rust on my shelf.

It used to be valuable to me. To someone with the nous it could be valuable again.

No reasonable offers refused.

Thanks,
DAR

[ben333]

Hey do you mind that I moved this thread to the classifieds forum? You can open another thread in the SNAP forum if you still want help resolving your issues.

[blue68f100]

Originally Posted by claque2200

Thanks for your reply. I have swapped them.

I wonder if it even cares about the disks. There is supposedly a reset mode (six blinks?) that will boot up without mounting the disks. I tried that with the same result.

Yesterday it booted up from each one of the original drives in tandem with the upgrade drive. Only once, though. Each time rebooting led to diagnostic blinks.

I just feel like I strayed into a realm of clairvoyant experts. These debug commands, for instance-- if it weren't for these forums I wouldn't know they exist. Where is this stuff documented? I see the list of commands, but how do you guys know what they mean?

Anyhow, I would rather this device be useful to somebody who knows what they're doing than to rust on my shelf.

It used to be valuable to me. To someone with the nous it could be valuable again.

No reasonable offers refused.

Thanks,
DAR

To Reset is only 4 blinks, 5 is FLUP mode for updating firmware.

There is no 6 blinks that I know of. The OS is located on the HD only on this model.

[blue68f100]

Originally Posted by ben333

Hey do you mind that I moved this thread to the classifieds forum? You can open another thread in the SNAP forum if you still want help resolving your issues.

Ben,

I would wish you left it where it was. We get quite a few here that we actually recover and the user keeps.

Most every one that deals with snaps only check the Snap Main thread.

David

[ben333]

Originally Posted by blue68f100

Ben,

I would wish you left it where it was. We get quite a few here that we actually recover and the user keeps.
David

David,

I have moved the thread back into the Snap forum for support.

Originally Posted by blue68f100

Most every one that deals with snaps only check the Snap Main thread.

I did leave a thread with the same name and a link to the new location

[Phoenix32]

David,

Three hints...

1) ATA100/ATA133 and C/S

2) Power

3) Snap 4000


Yeah, I know you are old, rusty, and forgetful...

[blue68f100]

Andy, this is a 2200 not a 4000.......

I have requested a clasified Section to be added to the Snap Server threads for persons wanting to sale Snap Hardware. Will know next week, so ALL users can post items for sale..... I do not think most snap users look at the clasifed adds in the other section. I know I dont. Just like the other thread on other network hardware.

David

ps. in with the new out with the old.......

[Phoenix32]

Holy crap David, you really are getting old and forgetful...

Note: For those who do not know, David and I know each other as pen pals and are friends, we just tease one another. Do not assume our teasing one another is a start of flaming.

David,

This was not about his selling the unit. This was about the problem he reported.

I also know he said it was a 2200, but if you remember right, the 2000 and 4000 use almost the same MB and the 2200 is based on the same technology. Now back to my hints.

He did not say what brand drives he was using, but also remember, the 4000 had serious issues with the Seagate (and a few others) larger drives when using CS due to the ATA interface they use. His problem could easily be related.

Next was power. The 2000 and 2200 use a power supply rated at 1/2 the rating of the 4000 power supply. Since the 4000 power supplies can have problems with 4 of those larger drives, then it is simple that the 2000 and 2200 can also have power problems with 2 drives. Simple logic.

The last hint was just to point you this direction from memory.

Just some ideas to work wth....

[blue68f100]

The 2200 and 1100 are in a different class, newer design. andy. andy andy andy.....

There is nothing common with the older MB's. Remember I have the 2200 and use it daily. And a malfunction 1100. Had a 2000, have a 1000 and 4100. The 2200 does normally not have a problem with drives, unless Maxtor's. But then every thing has problems with Maxtor's. The preferred is Master or Single Drive, but some MFG have problem, and for those CS some time works.

The PS are different, the 2200 uses a external PS 12vdc 4 amps switcher. The 2000 has a ps that supplies 5v and 12vdc and built in.....

Wake up Andy..... I know the 2200 better than you.....

[Phoenix32]

Originally Posted by blue68f100

The 2200 and 1100 are in a different class, newer design. andy. andy andy andy.....

Originally Posted by blue68f100

There is nothing common with the older MB's.

Tsk tsk tsk. Not only old and forgetful, but can't read either.

I said, "the 2200 is based on the same technology", which it most certainly is. I did not say they were the same. This means they may, might, could be, and good chance are, prone to the same problems.

Originally Posted by blue68f100

Remember I have the 2200 and use it daily. And a malfunction 1100. Had a 2000, have a 1000 and 4100. The 2200 does normally not have a problem with drives, unless Maxtor's. But then every thing has problems with Maxtor's. The preferred is Master or Single Drive, but some MFG have problem, and for those CS some time works.

Yes you do, but then as we prove now and again on this forum, some refuse to admit their own lack of knowledge on their own equipment.

Besides, we used to say this about the 4000 until we (by we, I mean me), went through a zillion hours of testing on some 4000's. How soon we forget.

Originally Posted by blue68f100

The PS are different, the 2200 uses a external PS 12vdc 4 amps switcher. The 2000 has a ps that supplies 5v and 12vdc and built in.....

Geeech David, do I have to do everything for you? Now I have to do your math too?

Some of those 500GB drives draw 2.5A or more on the 12V rail at spin up. Last time I checked, 2 x 2.5A = 5A which is > 4A of that power supply. This can wreak havoc on the electronics (read the motherboard) that is also trying to fire up and can get confused when the voltage levels drop due to current drain.

Originally Posted by blue68f100

Wake up Andy..... I know the 2200 better than you.....

Oh I am awake, but I am wondering about you, and that statement....


Okay now to get serious a moment for others reading this thread. (sorry, but David and I get bored if we don't have some fun sometimes)

I don't give up my secrets easily, but this needs to be said to help others. There is a documented problem with older ATA interfaces using CS on some newer drives. When a drive ATA interface and host ATA interface first connect to each other, they negotiate the speed and drive select. With a good number of the older host ATA interfaces and some of the newer drive ATA interfaces, when the drive(s) is/are in CS, they don't negotiate the speed (ATA33/66/100/133) correctly. This causes all kind of weird and confusing random problems. I would provide a link to this documentation, but like David, I am old and can be forgetful sometimes and I don't remember where it is at the moment and I am too lazy to look it up. Just take my word for it.

As for the power issue, sometimes it works, sometimes it don't, but you have to watch the power requirements when using modern drives in older equipment. 'Nuff said on that.

[blue68f100]

Andy,

With all that has been said lets get back to his problem. I suggested that he swap drive positions because the ORIGINAL DRIVES would NOT start the server. Before we got side tracked....... Remember .......... You actulally jumped the gun a little, well maybe a lot.

And yes the problem started when he tried to upgrade, but none of the 500gig HD would start in tandum with original dirves, but he had power..... I was trying to determine if the OS got transfered properly or wiped. I thinking he did not give the server time to format the new HD's. before he dropped the power.

And this is not the first time 500 gig HD have been installed in 2200. But it could be an issue BUT were not there yet... There has only been 1 reported issue, and there are serveral 750 in a 2200. But the newer Perpidicular tech drives uses less platters reducing the current.

enough of our bickering,

With the OS on the HD's, Installing NEW HD is not the same as Flashram units.

[Phoenix32]

I am sensing some genuine cranky-ness there, so I will drop that part because we are friends. So moving on, back to the problem.

From the tangle of earlier messages there, I gathered that all that stuff had all been looked at. So -IF- I jumped the gun, my applogies, but again, it seemed we had gone past the other stuff.

Okay, going back to the very first message, there is one other thing that jumps out in my mind. He said,

Hurray! It booted up and showed two separate drives: the original and the new 500Gb, with data on both.

Like an idiot, I thought 'why don't I just check the disk to be safe?' OK, it says, reboot and I'll check. Again with the 'diagnostic mode' blinks.

Increasingly desperate, I removed the new drive and put both original drives back where they belonged. Still no luck.

I forced a 'reset' (Four times to clear all system settings).

While it may, or may not, have been working properly at that point, it was working. Simple diagnostic tells us to go back to the last operational point and see what changed. Well, what changed here was that he ran disk checks, reboots, and then does some resets. Nothing has worked correctly since from what I gahter.

Okay, those disk checks take forever and a day on the older Snap OS units, and even worse with a 500GB in the mix. I had this problem with one of the Snap OS units I had when I first got it (I can't remember which one anymore). It took me a while to realize it, but the Snap was still trying to do the disk checks and would not let me or the Snap do anything else until it completed. He has done resets in the middle of this process (but the drives are still marked for diags), so who knows wha state it is in now. I would also try leaving the unit on for 24 hours and see what happens. Ya never know.

Now, I have to tell you I disagree with your power assessment. I am very well aware people have put 500 and 750 GB drives in these units. I am also aware of perpendicular storage, how it works, and the need for fewer platters etc. But I also know THOSE DRIVES are rated at over 2A durring start up. So why the contradiction? Because power supplies can quite often provide more than their rated power for short periods of time (and I am not talking about surge ratings). Spin up only takes a very short period of time. Just like in the 4000, a lot of times the power supply can handle that short over drain on current. But also like the 4000, some won't. It all depends on the age, quality of the filters, etc of the individual power supply in use at the time. The engineering technician in me says that what is on paper and what happens in real world is not always the same thing. The engineering technician in me also says that in the end, what is on paper will win over time. And the engineering technician in me says the math never lies or is wrong. Understand? I am not trying to start an arguement on what may be a moot point here in this situation, but I know others read this stuff and use it in their own circumstances and thus the semi-bad information (IMO) had to be corrected. Sorry.


With the OS on the HD's, Installing NEW HD is not the same as Flashram units.

Well DUH! No kidding. I am not stoopit...


P.S. And I agree with you about maybe he did not leave the drives in long enough to get the format, partitioning, and OS copy over done. That is a real concern as well.

[claque2200]

Just quickly-- I appreciate the time and expertise being brought to bear here.

As I had written privately it seems the first two mistakes were-

1. Using the first upgrade drive that came to hand, failing to draw distinctions among manufacturers.

2. Failing to consider that the 500Gb drives might draw more power and overtax the power-supply.

As for "leav[ing] the drives in long enough to get the format, partitioning, and OS copy over done" the first upgrade seemed to work fine. In particular I was able to monitor the formatting from the web-page.

With the second upgrade I suppose I should have put it in beside one of the original 160Gb's. Instead I put it alongside the first upgrade-- i.e. no more original drives. At that point I got diagnostic blinks and I couldn't reach the web-page. Is it possible it was in fact busy formatting in this state?

Be that as it may I was twice AFTER this able to boot up and see my data. Once each with one of my original drives alongside the formatted (and loaded with data) new drive. Each time, however, simply rebooting-- not resetting-- led to diagnostic blinks.

At a loss I then performed the four-blink reset. That led to the single-system double-disk blinks that purportedly means it's awaiting broadcast update or some such.

I will now adopt the suggestion to power it up and wait overnight for it to sort itself out.

Thanks again,
DAR

[blue68f100]

With the second upgrade I suppose I should have put it in beside one of the original 160Gb's. Instead I put it alongside the first upgrade-- i.e. no more original drives. At that point I got diagnostic blinks and I couldn't reach the web-page. Is it possible it was in fact busy formatting in this state?

Yes, If the server is busy doing a disk check it can take hours depending o whats it doing. Provide it does not give you the 1x2 led pattern. Waiting for IP but its actually missing or damaged os.

If you did a reset you will be required to use Assist to setup the network setings before you will be able to log in. The format of my 300gig took over 12 hrs so the 500gig may be near the 20-24 hr mark. Asa a rule of thumb, if the disk LED is lite (or bliniking) you do not want to power down the server. It's busy doing something.

You may need to try several disk to see which ones will boot the unit. One you have that you need to make sure it is in the disk0 (10000) position. Then install a second and setup the Mirror again. This will also require a lot of time to build.

At a side note if you have a copy of SpinRite, and none of the drives boot the system, see if it can repair the drive. Surprisingly this has worked on several systems. It just depends on what has happened.

If nothing works I know someone in the Chicago area that may beable to help you.

[claque2200]

Following up: It's been powered-up and blinking for a day and a night.

Assist does not find it on the network. It offers to search again for a particular server, but having performed a factory-reset I don't know what name or password to give it.

I remain, therefore, at the end of my tether.

I could gamble another couple of hundred dollars on a new drive with SnapOS pre-installed, but why would that work when-- as far as I know-- the drives I have are already formatted with SnapOS?

I can usually debug software, where there's always SOMETHING else one hasn't tried yet. But I guess I'm not cut out for hardware problems where the box just sits there ignoring me.

Maybe I'll try SpinRite, but I think I have learned not to rush ahead with things I don't understand.

I should note, in case anyone is willing to take on this recalcitrant device, that my profile is out of date: I and my Snap 2200 are no longer in Chicago. We're now in NW Massachusetts-- far from civilization. I do have the original packaging though!

I can't say it enough:
Many sincere thanks, again, for the interest and expertise.

DAR

[Phoenix32]

Will it work with one of the SINGLE original drives (either one, try both) set as master/single?

If so, it is NOT time to give up yet. If not, then you will need a drive image to get back to life.

[blue68f100]

Try Instaling one of your drives, 1 at a time and see if any give you anything but the 1 x 2 led pattern. If it acts like it booting wait 10 min or till the disk led goes out. Then run the ASSIST program to locate and setup the network settings. The def userid is administrator with no PW. I hope your data is still in place with the working drive. But if all give you the 1x2 pattern in both positions top & bottom position the OS is loost. If so let me know I may beable to help you out.

On your original drives use the original jumper settings. As for the larger one try Master/Single or even CS.

Andy, you beet me to the punch.

[claque2200]

O.K. now this thing is playing tricks with my mind:

I tried one drive in the lower bay (when the carriage is on its side), with the same result: 1x2 blinks and Assist can't find it.

Then I tried the same drive in the other bay. Seemingly the same result. But this time when I reach over to power it down I seem to hear disk activity. Or maybe not. The disk light doesn't show it. It just keeps its same stately double-blink pattern.

It's probably nothing. But maybe I should let it sit a while longer in case it's checking the disk or some such?

Or maybe I'm finally losing it.

I'll report back.

Thanks,
DAR

[blue68f100]

It's common for one position to work and the other to not.

[claque2200]

With apologies for delay:

I guess it was a hallucination born of wishful thinking. It's no go with either drive in either bay.

I don't see how, but from what you say I guess the OS is lost.

So now it needs another SnapServer or a drive image?