Noob 4100 question

[minimike1]

Hi guys just a quick question or 2.

A while back I bought a 4100 from eBay ( don't laugh ) and was assured that the unit was working and just the hdds were taken out, of course it didn't work (I think).

I filled it up with old 20gig hdds and thought that is all it needed.

When the unit is connected up and I press the power button the fans spin up and the link light comes on , that is all it does and I can't even power off using the button.

I have tried connecting using assist , resetting the unit , checked all voltages are ok out of the psu and even putting the old working cloned drive out of my 1100.

Can anyone suggest anything else or is it dead?

If the mobo is dead would people recommend Northwest Technical for a replacement mob? , the existing mobo is a 70715021 and northwest do a 70715039 is this just a straight swap ?? , I would get new cpu and memory as well

Last question I promise , If it is dead and I get a mobo from northwest do I put the hdds back and when I power it up the OS will install from flash or will I need a OS from somewhere else ?

many many thanks for reading this far and I hope you can help 8)


Mike

[Phoenix32]

Okay, let's try a few things first before we decide it is a bad board... In this case, the drives may have simply been formatting and you just needed to wait...

Now, if this is the case, and because the drives format may be all messed up now with you turning it on and off while it may have been trying to format, let's do this first. Remove the drives and wipe them. This means connecting them to a PC and using whatever utility you like to wipe the drives clean (I use microscope, but I doubt you have that). You did not say what brand drives they were, but most drive manufacturers have some type of low level format utility to download for their drives on their web sites. Sometimes they call it zero out the drive or whatever. Get that utility for your drives and wipe them.

Okay, now that we have nice clean drives to work with, put them back in the 4100 and turn it on. THEN LEAVE IT ALONE FOR A WHILE!!!

When you put the drives into the 4100, it needs to format each drive and set it up for it's use. This takes a little time. Normaly during this operation, you cannot access the server, even with Assist. Just leave it be and let it do it's thing.

Watch the lights. First there will be an initial boot (which takes a minute or so) and is various LEDs flashing at different times and rates. After this initial boot, which I say again takes a minute or so, you should see this;

- The System LED will probably flash rapidly
- The Link LED will be on steady (if it is connected to your LAN)
- The Net LED will be off, and might blink once in a while
- The Disk LED will be on steady (for the most part)
- And most importantly, the Disk 1, 2, 3, and 4 LEDs will come on steady, one at a time, in sequence, for a period of time each (however long it takes to format that drive)

When all of the drives are formatted, you should see this;

- The System LED will blink at a rate of about once per second
- The Link LED will be on steady (if it is connected to your LAN)
- The Net LED will be off, and might blink once in a while
- The Disk LED will be off
- The Disk 1, 2, 3, and 4 LEDs will be off

NOW you can go access the unit with Assist. Keep in mind, the Server may need to be reset back to factory defaults (clearing all settings). If so, the WIKI section 3.6 has instructions for this (probably as good idea anywise).

After all of this, come back and let us know what happened. If it still doesn't work, pay attention to what the various LEDs are doing and give us that information.

[minimike1]

Thanks for your help Phoenix32 but I feel I may have misled ppl , the unit isn't a 4100 as I described but a 4000 ( has 4 drive spaces but only 1 led for disk , and it's a 2U size unit ) .

My apologies for this and thank you for the info , just in case the same applies for a 4000 I zeroed a WD 20 gig drive and put it in the IDE 1 slot as a master drive and turned it on.
After leaving the unit for 10 mins no lights came on or flashed ( network wasn't connected but I assume that won't make a difference ) so I imagine that because of this things aren't as well as they could be

Does the 4000 series have the OS on flash? , I have looked at the mobo and can't see a flash chip.

Thanks guys , Mike 8)

[blue68f100]

Did yo hold the power button in for 5 - 10 sec ? Reqired to start and stop. Check to see if the battery is good.

[jontz]

Originally Posted by minimike1

Does the 4000 series have the OS on flash? , I have looked at the mobo and can't see a flash chip.

Thanks guys , Mike 8)

Nope, the OS is on the hard drive on this model.

[blue68f100]

Jontz,

The OS is in flashram. The only models that are not, are the 1100 & 2200 models. Not counting Guardian OS units.

Minimike1, The flashram should have a label on it. Most of the old model use a TSOP-40pin package (29F800BT).

[Phoenix32]

Originally Posted by minimike1

Does the 4000 series have the OS on flash? , I have looked at the mobo and can't see a flash chip.

The 4000 and 4100 are pretty similar, at least in this part of it. Yes, the 4000 has the OS in flashram.

What version of 4000 is it? -001, -002, -003, or -004 (this number is after the last part of the model number on the back of the unit)

If it is a -001 or -002, set the lone drive to Master. If it is a -003 or -004, set the drive to C/S. And in case you did not know, the first drive position is the bottom of the tray closest to the power supply.

Are you sure the 20GB drive works (hey, you have to ask)?

Does anything happen when you press the power switch (as David said, for a couple of seconds)? Do the fans spin up? Does the drive power up?

Assuming, all of the above have been checked and are as they should be, then pop the memory stick out and put it back in. Do the same with the CPU (be careful, do not break the tabs).

After you do all that, let us know the results and any indications you can give us if it is still not working. Just pay attention to things as you go through all of this. The little tiny details can quite often tell you problem.


David, I have powered a 4000 up without a battery in it. Worked just fine. It just wouldn't rememebr anything (kind of like me on some days).

Jontz, David was right, the 4000 does have the OS in Flashram just like the 4100.

[blue68f100]

Andy,

Does the 4000 have 2 flashram chips like the 2000 model? On the 2000v1, 1 was soldered in, the other removable.

[Phoenix32]

Originally Posted by blue68f100

Andy,

Does the 4000 have 2 flashram chips like the 2000 model? On the 2000v1, 1 was soldered in, the other removable.

It has a single flash chip that I can see. Please don't ask me the numbers (I know that is next). My eyes aint what they used to be ya know. LOL

[minimike1]

Here's a description of the unit and what happens ;
On the rear of the unit it has a Quantum label that has model number 70700042-004 together with MAC address and serial number.

Inside the unit it has a label from TRIMM Technologies with Model number H446.

I have placed a known working WD 20gig drive ( which has been zeroed ) in the cradle nearest to the PSU and connected the cable going from IDE1 port.
The IDE cable connecting the drive goes on IDE1 on the mobo and I am using the other end of the cable ( usually for connecting a hdd set to master ) , the HDD is set to master with a jumper !

I connect just the main IEC power cable and the unit doesn't do anything until I press the power button on the front.
When I press the power button on the front the rear fan spins , the CPU fan spins and I can hear the HDD spin up.

All the LEDs on the front ( System , Link , Net and Disk ) don't light up even after 5 mins , I can however get the link light to light up by connecting a network cable form the Snap Server to my home network.

After looking at the lights for about 5 mins I press the power button briefly and nothing happens , if I hold the power button down for 10 seconds still nothing happens ( fans still spinning ! )
The only way I can get the unit to power down is to remove the main IEC power cable from the back of the unit.

I have noticed that when the HDD spins up I can't hear the disk tracking ( as it would when access data ).

I have removed and replaced the CPU and the memory with working items and haven't had any more luck so I have put the original items back in, of course I observed all anti-static precautions 8).

I have tried the HDD as Cable select and have put it in different positions in the unit and it still doesn't do anything more


Can you guys think of anything else? as I'd love to get this unit working , I don't mind buying a new mobo that much it's just that the shipping from America to Oz is very expensive

Cheers Guys !
Mike

[blue68f100]

There are only 3 things that keep a snap from booting. Bad ram, cpu, MB.
Contact the seller and return the unit. If he said it was working, he was wrong. Everything you describe is that of a dead MB. Even if the OS is not in flashram, it should blink some led pattern.

Sorry Mike, Return it or keep it for parts it's your call. But from what you said earlier, I think the seller slipped you a bad unit.

[minimike1]

yeah , that's what I was hoping wouldn't happen 8(

Now I have to decide if I buy a new mobo for it ( I will presume that if I buy a new 4000 mobo from Northwest Technical it comes with the OD on board ) or if I buy a 4100 I have just seen for sale , this also has no hdds.

hmmm what to do ...

well if it is dead and no-one can think of anything more to try I'd like to thank you guys for your quick replies and very useful info 8)

Mike 8)

[Phoenix32]

It does sound like a dead main board to me also now... The only other possibility I can think of is the power supply. Meaning it may not be providing enough power to get things up and running.

One thing does puzzle me though.... Why the Hard Disk is not seeking on bootup? It should do that good board or not.

Try another drive and the other cable...

Speaking of which, your unit is a -004 unit, meaning it has the modified cables (or should have) and uses C/S...

If they are original cables, they should be rainbow colored, if not, that can be a problem.

Now with a different drive and the other original cable, put the drive in the lower slot closest to the power supply. Then connect the middle connector to the drive.

See what happens....

If that still doesn't work, you have a bad SNAP 4000.

Buying a new board. Now that is a good question. Myself, I say no. Why? Because you can buy a SNAP 4000 for what you will pay for just the board for all pricing I have seen. At least with a whole new SNAP 4000, you get spare parts if needed, and probably cheaper... Just my opinion.

[Phoenix32]

Originally Posted by minimike1

if I buy a 4100 I have just seen for sale , this also has no hdds.

hmmm what to do ...

Well, for what it is worth, here ya go. In my opinion the 4100 is inferior to the 4000. Why? Because the 4100 is louder than the 4000 by far, and it is limited to < 137GB hard disks. They are equal in speed and all other factors for the most part. The only advantage the 4100 has over the 4000 is that it is 1U instead of 2U. Smaller drives and much louder unit seems too much to pay for having a 1U unit over a 2U unit. Larger Drives and much quieter seems to be a good trade off for having 2U to me. Just my opinion.

It never ceases to amaze me the prices I have seen 4100's go for on eBay.

[MaddMatt]

Hi Phoenix & Blue,

This is probably a stupid question; but I will proceed...

Recently I read something about the Snap4000 and the Snap2000 v2’s having similar / possibly identical Motherboards… I also I saw somewhere on the forum that a dude had opened a 2000 and connected 4 drives master/slave off normal 3 connector ribbon cables.

Hypothetically if minimike1 found himself a Snap2000 v2 could he do a straight switch of the Snap2000 main board to his nice, big, quiet 4000 with heaps of airflow and no drive limitations?

With the only downside being it would call itself a 2000 instead of a 4000?


Hey minimike1

Were you able to get your money back from that dude on eBay?

[minimike1]

Unfortunately getting my money back from eBay isn't an option , after carefully reading his advert it stated that there was no warranty , this was a hard lesson to learn.

I take it you guys are in the States ? getting second hand snap servers here in oz is very hard to do , I jagged getting my 1100 cheaply and 4000s are rarely seen which is a pity as I'd really like to turn my pc off but still access my files over the network.

I'm glad you mentioned the drive size limit Phoenix as I was just about to bid for a 4000 unit (actually a re-badged Dell705N) and I thought that because it had software 4.0.860 it wold allow me to put 300gig drives in it , so Im glad as you have just saved me buying another unit which wouldn't suit me

I have tried all connector and drive combos to see if the unit would work any differently btw , no luck unfortunately.

Looks like I'll be contacting Northwest for a new mobo , I hope that the OS is on them and that they will allow me to arrange the courier to collect it.

thanks for your help guys and if you need me to send over some of our lovely Vegemite give me an email

Mike.

[MaddMatt]

Hey Mike,

I‘m in Sydney… oi oi oi!

Just saw the advertisement on nth-west - “Snap Server 2000/4000 - Motherboard (DIMM type)” - So the answer is yes they are interchangeable!

The positives are that there are a lot more of the 2000’s out there than there was of the 4000…

Buying it from N/W at least you would be 99% sure that for your money (the US$ clams + freight) it will work and if it doesn’t it’s a long way to return it...

You also could see if you can pickup a snap2000 for a bit less expensive around, but the negatives are; The unit may turn out to be a v1 or its board could be completely dead, this could be managed by grilling the seller prior to the auction close… So you would be back to trusting someone on eBay
(I hope you gave that guy a bad rap on his eBay feedback page, the naughty naughty Man ).

If you can wait you might get a surprise, I will definitely keep an eye out for you to see if I can find you one, but your best bet is to do an Australian search on google of any PC recycler you can get to show up on a search then email them with a note and you might just get lucky?

If you were to locate a recycler with a snap in Sydney I would be happy to check it out for you if you send me the details… I can even organize a cheap freight to you through work…

Don’t feel bad about having a 4000 that has a dodgy MB…

Right now I have a;

Snap 2000 that needs a CPU fan (a recent occurrence)

Snap 4000 that works with 3 drives or less as the PSU is on its way out

Snap 1100 with what appears to be dead board.

Snap 2200 with what appears to be dead board.

Snap 4100 with 1x 40GB drive but also missing 1 Drive Bracket.

Matt

(The emoticons are for; Mr "you know who you are!")

[Phoenix32]

Originally Posted by MaddMatt

Recently I read something about the Snap4000 and the Snap2000 v2’s having similar / possibly identical Motherboards… I also I saw somewhere on the forum that a dude had opened a 2000 and connected 4 drives master/slave off normal 3 connector ribbon cables.

Hypothetically if minimike1 found himself a Snap2000 v2 could he do a straight switch of the Snap2000 main board to his nice, big, quiet 4000 with heaps of airflow and no drive limitations?

With the only downside being it would call itself a 2000 instead of a 4000?

Theoretically, yes, BUT... There are some issues here. #1 He needs to make sure the 2000 he gets has one of those boards. #2 He is going to need to tell the 2000 board it is now a 4000 or he won't get the configs of the 4000 (making it all pointless). #3 Doing step 2 can be risky. Just ask the guys who have some 1x00 and 2000 doorstops units now. I will let David get deeper into that one if he wants to.

The price difference is probably not going to be much, so why go throug the hassles and risks? But yes, theoretically it can be done (and has been done).

[blue68f100]

The 2000v2 to 4000 should not be any issues. They both use the same source code in the sup file. Once the change has been made I would recommend reloading the OS. The 1000 to a 2000 is a different ball of wax, very sticky.

If I recall you need to look for HW v2 and SN >28k. If it says Meridian it is a v1.

[Phoenix32]

Originally Posted by minimike1

I'm glad you mentioned the drive size limit Phoenix as I was just about to bid for a 4000 unit (actually a re-badged Dell705N) and I thought that because it had software 4.0.860 it wold allow me to put 300gig drives in it , so Im glad as you have just saved me buying another unit which wouldn't suit me

Okay, I think you meant a Dell 705N turned into a 4100, not 4000 there. But, just to make sure, a Dell 705N is the same as a 4100, not a 4000.

Originally Posted by minimike1

I take it you guys are in the States ? getting second hand snap servers here in oz is very hard to do , I jagged getting my 1100 cheaply and 4000s are rarely seen which is a pity as I'd really like to turn my pc off but still access my files over the network.

Yes, we are in the States, but truth is, 4000's are not that easy to come by here either, at least good ones...

Originally Posted by minimike1

I have tried all connector and drive combos to see if the unit would work any differently btw , no luck unfortunately.

Looks like I'll be contacting Northwest for a new mobo , I hope that the OS is on them and that they will allow me to arrange the courier to collect it.

Without touching it myself, I cannot say for 100% sure, but at this point is does sound like you have a bad main board (or a power supply that is too weak to even run a single drive). As for buying a new board, well, I like the guys over at NW Tech and recommend them, but not in this case for your situation. As I said before, the board will end up costing you near what you could have gotten another 4000 for (maybe a little less). But what if the power supply is bad or something else, more than just the board? You don't know. Then it is more money down the drain. Your best bet is another 4000. Be patient, pay attention to what you read, ask questions, and you will get a good one, and have some spare parts in case they are needed maybe. Hell, if the power supply is good, you might be able to sell it for close to what you pay for the new 4000, they are rare as hen's teeth (I think Matt needs one, hint hint).

I just moved up to a 4500, so I have some damn good 4000's I am going to be selling (in various configurations), but as you know SNAP servers are not light by any means. I am afraid shipping to AUS would be brutal, so I doubt I can be of much help to you.

Originally Posted by minimike1

Unfortunately getting my money back from eBay isn't an option , after carefully reading his advert it stated that there was no warranty , this was a hard lesson to learn.

I hear this way way way too often and it pisses me off. Not at the people I am hearing it from, but the people doing it. I am going to give some really good advice here, even for you veteran eBayers, so PAY ATTENTION.

Like many veteran eBayers, I have spent a lot of time on eBay. As you may know, each type of items carry their own risks and problems on eBay. The SNAP Servers are no different. I have bid on and purchased, for myself and for others, a great many SNAP servers on eBay. Now let me tell you this straight up as facts.

- The majority of SNAP Servers being sold on eBay are being sold by people who got them in bulk auctions and know little or nothing about them. FACT!

- The majority of SNAP Servers being sold in eBay have "something" wrong with them. FACT!

Now this "something" might be as simple as cables missing, wrong cables, bad fans, or what have you. But, it can also just as easily be missing drive trays (which can be replaced, but are not cheap), bad power supplies EVEN IF IT POWERS ON (which are very hard to get and very expensive), missing memory, missing CPU, bad boards, etc etc etc etc... It happens, A LOT! You can believe me or not, but I am telling you how it is (hoping you won't be the next victim).

- The majority of SNAP Servers on eBay are in need of OS updates. FACT!

- The majority of SNAP Servers on eBay are sold AS-IS (even if you don't see it easily in the add). And, even if they will give you a non DOA, remember, they won't pay shipping either direction. In case you have not noticed, shipping is usually very high on SNAP Servers. It's going to cost you if you make a bad deal, period.

- More often than not, the SNAP Server you see in the picture is NOT the unit being sold.

There are other things, but that is the highlights. Notice I said majority above, not all. There are some good SNAP Servers on eBay, and some good deals, but they are NOT the majority. Look for them you will find them.

My advice, read the adds closely. Either don't pay much for it or only buy when you are pretty sure it is a good unit. Pay attention to who is selling it. Not just the feedbacks, but if they are a wholesaler or someone who actually knows something about a SNAP and can tell you if it really works or not. ASK QUESTIONS! LOTS OF THEM! Ask for pictures of the actual unit for sale. Go with your gut feeling. And remember what I have told you here.

I hope this helps someone...

[minimike1]

Opps yeah , I meant that the Dell was a 4100 not a 4000


I don't suppose you feel like selling your 4000 with the PSU on it's way out Matt ??,

If your not interested in selling , how about stripping the mobo out of one of the ones your selling Phoenix ? , I'd rather buy something from an enthusiast and let them get some money than from a shop.

Mike 8)

[MaddMatt]

Hi Phoenix, Blue & Minimike...

I was thinking; if Minimike can wait a bit, I will send my slightly working 4000 PSU to try, then if that doesn’t work I'll see if I can assist to find a 2000v2 main board or if he buys another 4000 we can talk about me buying his current 4000... We can work something, mutually beneficial, out I am sure... no wuckers.
But only if Minimike is keen and he hasn’t come back to me yet (he probably has a real life though… he he he).

For my 4000 I really want to do the converted AT PSU upgrade, I am going to get two or three done at once so if one fails I can just swap it out...
My buddy who will do the modification is ready but I haven't been pushing it yet as I am looking for 3 good identical AT PSU's that fit the bill to a "T", and I want to see if we can get some of the Snap4000 “6 cable PSU to Converter connectors” as well.

Snap 4100 On eBay
I checked out the Dell snap on eBay located in QLD and It would have to have an issue. by the sound of the advertisement and the language used I wouldn't be personally tempted, it has Dell written on it but it doesn’t come with a free fire extinguisher. (bad attempted humour; )

I am dealing in speculation here but I recon he brought it, it didn't work, so he took out the 160GB Seagate’s and decided to let it become somebody else’s problem Or He brought if for the 160GB Seagate’s Or he is a pawn broker or a regular “eBay fiend” constantly buying and selling - like my sister..., as he has sold and brought heaps of gear going back to 2002.

In the Ad he first goes on about Dell and the snaps they re-badged and put windows server on…

He actually said in the add;
“Identical units are still available new as the Adaptec Snap Server 4100. Harris Technologies price is $3565. Add your own drives and save a fortune!
He is talking about a Snap4100 on www.ht.com.au (online it sales house), but it must be Ancient! they have been EOL for Ages...And for AUD $200 extra you can get the 4200… which has so much more to offer in every way, over the 4100!

He goes on to say;
“It is in good cosmetic and working condition although the rack mount ears got damaged in postage when I bought it several years ago. They can probably be straightened out.” “RACK MOUNT EARS” I haven’t heard that one before?

Then he says;
This item measures 431mm wide, 45mm high and 431mm deep and will weigh about 6kg when packed so expect postage to be high.
Australia is completely metric, and nobody I can recall says anything other than - 19 inch rack mount!” he’s talking in millimeters? (Probably copied most of this off some UK / European site?)

On the other hand looking at his feedback he has a very clean 100% rating though?

I'm not too keen on eBay.
I am very lucky, all my snaps have been “donated” to me, they were originally EVAL stock that had to go after a clean-out. apart from 2 working 2200's and the 2000 it has been not so good but my 4000 and 4100 have promise...

[minimike1]

I've checked the PSU under load and the voltages are fine , I imagine that it would be very easy to put a 230w atx psu inside the unit ( I muck around with power supplies at work. )

I have a sneaky feeling that the unit isn't all that it seems , it's too much like the advert when I bought my non-working unit , it just all sounds familiar.

Your very lucky to get snaps donated to you ! I have to buy all my toys from places like eBay , sometimes you win ( got a 1100 for $76 , upgraded to a 320gig hdd ) and sometimes you don't .
If you do find a 4000 mobo I'd be happy to give you a reasonable amount for one .

What are the 6 cable PSU to converter connector that you talk of , I could probably knock one or 2 up quite easily depending on if the connector is weird or not.

Oh about this life thing you think I have , I don't have one can anyone point me to where I can download one or can I have a copy of someone elses ???

Mike 8)

[MaddMatt]

Originally Posted by minimike1

Opps yeah , I meant that the Dell was a 4100 not a 4000

I don't suppose you feel like selling your 4000 with the PSU on it's way out Matt ??,

If your not interested in selling , how about stripping the mobo out of one of the ones your selling Phoenix ? , I'd rather buy something from an enthusiast and let them get some money than from a shop.

Mike 8)

Hey Mike,

Apologies; I really want to keep the 4000, out of them all it is my best unit (once my power is sorted), I'd prefer to help you find the right 2000 so you can turn it into a 4000... I know what blue means when he says "v2 + > 28k s/n" and I would see it working / test and confirm with you by phone before handing over any coin...
I also have a mate who goes to the Auctions - I'll check with him we might be able to find a few or at least tell me how regularly they come up?

By the sounds of Phoenix’s post he has to make some coin back on his, I am sure if anyone out there has a spare they will let you know.

Phoenix & Blue, I cannot recall if I saw it in the rules but Would mike be best starting a thread;
Wanted; Snap 4000 main board!
For that matter; Should I start one saying;
Wanted; Snap 2000 CPU FAN!
Wanted; Snap 4100 HDD Bracket!

If the right person was sending a main board from the us, I recon you could get the freight right down?

Thank you in advance!

Matt

[minimike1]

Actually a Market thread would be quite handy for swapping/selling snap bits , as long as people are aware that procooling isn't held responsible.

Maddmatt , if your mate (or anyone else ) doesn't mind keeping an eye out for a board that would be really good.

Cheers Guys

Mike 8)