Proposed Setup, Plz LOOK...

deathBOB · 02-01-2004, 04:12 PM

Hey yall! I just built my new computer this November (not that new i guess). It is composed of the following: Abit IC7-G, Pentium 2.4c, WD Raptor, 512 Corsair 3200LL, Geforce Ti 4200, Audigy soundcard. I had planned on overclocking this computer, and being able to do it right off the bat. However, high temperatures have forced me to consider alternative cooling methods. My case, Coolermaster's Wavemaster, has poor airflow. I love it to much to cut big holes in it for more air, so i need a solution that allows me to work with pre-existing holes. Enter watercooling... So ive been cruising these and other forums for a few weeks and I think I have a list of what I want to do:

Waterblock: Swiftech MC5002-P
Why? Ease of use i guess. Less tubing than a 3 prong block...

Radiator: D-tek Procore Jr.
Why? I think it will fit in my case. Like I said, space is a t a premium, the smaller the better.

Pump: Mag 3
Why? Cheap, powerful

Tubing: 1/2 all around, dunno what kind i want

Additive: Dunno.

Basically, I want it to look like Scanido's over at Overclockers Forums:

His is the closest thing I have seen to what I have. What do you guys think of all this?

pHaestus · 02-01-2004, 04:34 PM

your model case is very neatly done! Looks like decent collection of parts to me; I'd personally use a DTek whitewater over the MCW5002; they come with the Y adapter and performance will be better. If you DO stick with the MCW5002, then you might want to go with a smaller and quieter pump. That block doesn't benefit much at all from increasing flow rates (check Bill's test results for more info)

jaydee · 02-01-2004, 04:39 PM

I assume there is a fan shroud bolted to the top of the case and a blow hole up top to cool that rad?

Looks fine though.

Aardil · 02-01-2004, 05:14 PM

Personally
1. I don't like the rad mounted up in the top. Why? All the hot air being curculated around in the case is exiting through the heater core (pre warmed air cuts the abilty for the heater core to exchange heat.

2. looking at the swifty Block, the feed is going in the top and exits out the bottom. This could make an air pocket and give you trouble.

3. Must be a pain in the arse to fill with the fill point being the lowest part of the loop.

It looks nice and clean but that is what I see as potential problems.

Don't let me discourgage you, this is not an attemp to put you or your plans down, just pointing out potential problem areas.

Aardil

deathBOB · 02-01-2004, 05:43 PM

I to have similar misgiving, but the architecture of the case prevents radiator placement anywhere else... Besides, all i need to do is run a tube from the t-line to a funnel placed soemwhere above to fill it up. This doesnt prevent air from being trapped in the rad... What i liek is that if the pump fails, it should be that bad, as the order of the components means that water will continue to flow due to temperature differences... What about the silverprop line of blocks? Someone in another forum reccomended those as a 2 pronged alternative to WW. I dont really want a WW, i dont want to lap it and i dont want a complicated mounting process...

bozo · 02-02-2004, 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aardil

Personally
1. I don't like the rad mounted up in the top. Why? All the hot air being curculated around in the case is exiting through the heater core (pre warmed air cuts the abilty for the heater core to exchange heat.

2. looking at the swifty Block, the feed is going in the top and exits out the bottom. This could make an air pocket and give you trouble.

3. Must be a pain in the arse to fill with the fill point being the lowest part of the loop.

It looks nice and clean but that is what I see as potential problems.

Don't let me discourgage you, this is not an attemp to put you or your plans down, just pointing out potential problem areas.

Aardil

eh buddy, the feed is at the bottom, from the rad to the block

Aardil · 02-02-2004, 04:45 PM

Yup I am wrong yet again.

Arcturius · 02-02-2004, 06:11 PM

What about a Blace Ice Micro on the exhaust of the mobo tray, with the tanks drilled and refitted with 1/2" fittings?
OR: would a BIM-2 with swapped fittings fit down front, if you slotted/drilled new holes in the HDD rack to move your HDDs back a little? The 193mm height looks like it might be close on fitting below the 3.5" external bays...
(overall dimensions:193x82x46mm, for reference)

killernoodle · 02-02-2004, 07:37 PM

BIM and BIM2 suck ass. The setup is nearly perfect, and the whole idea that the rad on top will be swamped with hot air is incorrect. Lets remember that the main heat producing items are the CPU, video card, and power supply. The power supply vents exhaust directly to the outside air and the CPU is being watercooled, so really there is not that much heat in the case.

prb123 · 02-02-2004, 08:11 PM

Setup like in the picture and flip the case over during fills and air bleeding. The T becomes the highest point and no air pocket will form in the waterblock.

AngryAlpaca · 02-02-2004, 09:16 PM

Cooling your other components is important too, so putting the radiator at the top, recycling warm air from your other components (That also need cooling) could easily be a positive thing for your system. Also, he may be drawing from the outside, and blowing into the case through the radiator. I agree with the opinion about the BIM's sucking. No one yells at you for saying it that way? *Sniffle*

deathBOB · 02-03-2004, 12:02 PM

Heya Angry, didnt know u used these forums

BTW, that criticool place is out of the P4 block right now so I need to wait a few weeks. Anyways, My wave master has very poor intake. My exhaust is pretty good, I got an 80mm, the 2 80s in the PSU and soon the 120mm. However, my intake sucks... So im thinking about cutting a hole in the bottom and installing a fan. Theres a good 1-1.5 centimeter gap between the base, you think it will have enough airflow for a silent 80mm or 120 mm fan? If not, I might just put some airholes in the bottum right behind the front bezel...

killernoodle · 02-03-2004, 03:02 PM

You will have plenty of airflow, just dont put the computer on carpet or you will suck up a ton of dust and hair and icky stuff like that. Have you already considered intaking air from the side panel or put a radiator on the side panel?

deathBOB · 02-03-2004, 04:43 PM

I will not touch anypart of this beautiful machine that is visible from my desk... In fact, the blowhole will be the stock coolermaster with a shroud... Ill put a filter in if i do this... no worries...

iroc409 · 02-04-2004, 02:21 AM

that case is definitely sweet. the interior isn't quite designed as i'd like tho

so, what's the deal on the bi micros? i was thinking about a micro 2 for my machine...

Arcturius · 02-04-2004, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by killernoodle

BIM and BIM2 suck ass.

Could you back that up, please? The only hard data I was able to find showed the BIM2 keeping water temp (1L total volume) at 6C above an ambient of ~23.4C, with a 100W heatload.
The BIX managed 5.4C above an ambient of ~22.2C.

My German is weak, and machine translators aren't much different, but the testing methods @ watercoolplanet.de seem to be reasonably competent.

BIM2 xls
Rad performance list
Testbench description

pauldenton · 02-04-2004, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcturius

Could you back that up, please? The only hard data I was able to find showed the BIM2 keeping water temp (1L total volume) at 6C above an ambient of ~23.4C, with a 100W heatload.
The BIX managed 5.4C above an ambient of ~22.2C.

My German is weak, and machine translators aren't much different, but the testing methods @ watercoolplanet.de seem to be reasonably competent.

BIM2 xls
Rad performance list

Testbench description

that's the testbed for the blocks.... the rad tests (from the data) seem to have taken about 35mins - which seems awfully short - need to see the details...
the makers themselves claim 662.91W for the BIM2 - and that's at 40C above ambient!... thats a c/w of over 0.06...
http://www.hwlabs.com/products/blackicemicro2.htm
BIM claims 275W - a c/w of over 0.145

http://www.hwlabs.com/products/blackicemicro.htm

Arcturius · 02-05-2004, 12:46 AM

The text also states that they use the same testbed for rad testing. Also recall that they are using only one liter of water. If you look at the graphs, they level off pretty rapidly, given the small amount of coolant.

After inspecting more graphs, their testing time varies--they seem to stop testing whenever they feel the temperature has leveled off for about 10m. This _seems_ to require a temp increase of 0.3C or less, over that 10m, as near as I can tell.

I added some linear trendlines in Excel, and over the 20 data points previous to temp drops (when the heat source appears to have been turned off), I seem to be getting slopes of less than 0.02C/interval (min=0.0126, max=0.0189), for the four spreadsheets I played with quick.

V12|V12 · 02-05-2004, 01:17 AM

DeathBob,
If your case actually turns out like that pic you posted.. WOW, that is what I call a CLEAN setup... any way you could reverse that HCore setup so that it's pulling in cooler outside air, being up at the case top, will only expose it to the warmest air possible... but it should still perform well... Nice

AngryAlpaca · 02-05-2004, 10:11 AM

On the issue of the BIM and BIM2 sucking ass, I bring up this article. It's not technically a Black Ice article, but I believe that thermochill rads and the Black Ice radiators are probably close enough to make a valid comparison. They suck ass.

Edit: I just realized that the BIM2 doesn't suck ass. It's just well below standard.

V12|V12 · 02-05-2004, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngryAlpaca

On the issue of the BIM and BIM2 sucking ass, I bring up this article. It's not technically a Black Ice article, but I believe that thermochill rads and the Black Ice radiators are probably close enough to make a valid comparison. They suck ass.

Edit: I just realized that the BIM2 doesn't suck ass. It's just well below standard.

Interesting... so, plz elaborate on why they suck? I've always thought they were overhyped and WELL overpriced, as with most stuff in the "Sucker-noobs-into-water-cooling" marketing/forum pandering....

deathBOB · 02-05-2004, 05:15 PM

Guys, pleae carry out your radiator arguement somewhere else, unless you have something to add. I really cant decide between a WW or the Silverprop block... If I get the silverprop im gonna make a resevoir, where could i get a clear plastic tube for this?

AngryAlpaca · 02-05-2004, 09:49 PM

Thermal resistance of 0.10?! Couple that with a kickass block, with a thermal resistance of about 0.12, and you've got a system that is outdone by air. Price is also a killer. Their only advantage is their size. I vote White Water for performance, but if you are worried about the splitter cracking, go for the Silverprop. The difference in performance is pretty small, and possibly unnoticeable, though.

deathBOB · 02-05-2004, 09:54 PM

Ok then, the Silverprop it is... Should be easy install to... Anyways, I have to wait for criticool to get some in. Im kinda excited, i got enough for my birthday this year to make a full setup...

02-01-2004, 04:12 PM	#1
deathBOB Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 60	Proposed Setup, Plz LOOK... Hey yall! I just built my new computer this November (not that new i guess). It is composed of the following: Abit IC7-G, Pentium 2.4c, WD Raptor, 512 Corsair 3200LL, Geforce Ti 4200, Audigy soundcard. I had planned on overclocking this computer, and being able to do it right off the bat. However, high temperatures have forced me to consider alternative cooling methods. My case, Coolermaster's Wavemaster, has poor airflow. I love it to much to cut big holes in it for more air, so i need a solution that allows me to work with pre-existing holes. Enter watercooling... So ive been cruising these and other forums for a few weeks and I think I have a list of what I want to do: Waterblock: Swiftech MC5002-P Why? Ease of use i guess. Less tubing than a 3 prong block... Radiator: D-tek Procore Jr. Why? I think it will fit in my case. Like I said, space is a t a premium, the smaller the better. Pump: Mag 3 Why? Cheap, powerful Tubing: 1/2 all around, dunno what kind i want Additive: Dunno. Basically, I want it to look like Scanido's over at Overclockers Forums: His is the closest thing I have seen to what I have. What do you guys think of all this?

02-01-2004, 04:34 PM	#2
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	your model case is very neatly done! Looks like decent collection of parts to me; I'd personally use a DTek whitewater over the MCW5002; they come with the Y adapter and performance will be better. If you DO stick with the MCW5002, then you might want to go with a smaller and quieter pump. That block doesn't benefit much at all from increasing flow rates (check Bill's test results for more info) __________________ Getting paid like a biker with the best crank... -MF DOOM

02-02-2004, 06:11 PM	#8
Arcturius Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Chippewa Falls, Wisconsin Posts: 294	Since you're worried about cutting your case, and space seems to be a premium... What about a Blace Ice Micro on the exhaust of the mobo tray, with the tanks drilled and refitted with 1/2" fittings? OR: would a BIM-2 with swapped fittings fit down front, if you slotted/drilled new holes in the HDD rack to move your HDDs back a little? The 193mm height looks like it might be close on fitting below the 3.5" external bays... (overall dimensions:193x82x46mm, for reference) __________________ Everything aircooled (I honestly don't know why you guys let me stay a member...) Always folding: WXP Pro: KD7R + Palomino 1800+ W2K3: 4x P3 Xeon 500 512KB (4 clients) Linux boxes: none Had to put them to use doing real work.

02-02-2004, 07:37 PM	#9
killernoodle Thermophile Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 1,014	BIM and BIM2 suck ass. The setup is nearly perfect, and the whole idea that the rad on top will be swamped with hot air is incorrect. Lets remember that the main heat producing items are the CPU, video card, and power supply. The power supply vents exhaust directly to the outside air and the CPU is being watercooled, so really there is not that much heat in the case. __________________ I have a nice computer.

02-03-2004, 03:02 PM	#13
killernoodle Thermophile Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 1,014	You will have plenty of airflow, just dont put the computer on carpet or you will suck up a ton of dust and hair and icky stuff like that. Have you already considered intaking air from the side panel or put a radiator on the side panel? __________________ I have a nice computer.

02-01-2004, 04:39 PM	#3
jaydee Put up or Shut Up Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 6,506	I assume there is a fan shroud bolted to the top of the case and a blow hole up top to cool that rad? Looks fine though.

02-01-2004, 05:14 PM	#4
Aardil Cooling Savant Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Louisiana Posts: 174	Personally 1. I don't like the rad mounted up in the top. Why? All the hot air being curculated around in the case is exiting through the heater core (pre warmed air cuts the abilty for the heater core to exchange heat. 2. looking at the swifty Block, the feed is going in the top and exits out the bottom. This could make an air pocket and give you trouble. 3. Must be a pain in the arse to fill with the fill point being the lowest part of the loop. It looks nice and clean but that is what I see as potential problems. Don't let me discourgage you, this is not an attemp to put you or your plans down, just pointing out potential problem areas. Aardil

02-01-2004, 05:43 PM	#5
deathBOB Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 60	I to have similar misgiving, but the architecture of the case prevents radiator placement anywhere else... Besides, all i need to do is run a tube from the t-line to a funnel placed soemwhere above to fill it up. This doesnt prevent air from being trapped in the rad... What i liek is that if the pump fails, it should be that bad, as the order of the components means that water will continue to flow due to temperature differences... What about the silverprop line of blocks? Someone in another forum reccomended those as a 2 pronged alternative to WW. I dont really want a WW, i dont want to lap it and i dont want a complicated mounting process...

02-02-2004, 04:45 PM	#7
Aardil Cooling Savant Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Louisiana Posts: 174	Yup I am wrong yet again.

02-02-2004, 08:11 PM	#10
prb123 Cooling Neophyte Join Date: May 2002 Location: Michigan Posts: 51	Setup like in the picture and flip the case over during fills and air bleeding. The T becomes the highest point and no air pocket will form in the waterblock.

02-02-2004, 09:16 PM	#11
AngryAlpaca Cooling Savant Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Alberta Posts: 631	Cooling your other components is important too, so putting the radiator at the top, recycling warm air from your other components (That also need cooling) could easily be a positive thing for your system. Also, he may be drawing from the outside, and blowing into the case through the radiator. I agree with the opinion about the BIM's sucking. No one yells at you for saying it that way? Sniffle

02-03-2004, 12:02 PM	#12
deathBOB Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 60	Heya Angry, didnt know u used these forums BTW, that criticool place is out of the P4 block right now so I need to wait a few weeks. Anyways, My wave master has very poor intake. My exhaust is pretty good, I got an 80mm, the 2 80s in the PSU and soon the 120mm. However, my intake sucks... So im thinking about cutting a hole in the bottom and installing a fan. Theres a good 1-1.5 centimeter gap between the base, you think it will have enough airflow for a silent 80mm or 120 mm fan? If not, I might just put some airholes in the bottum right behind the front bezel...

02-03-2004, 04:43 PM	#14
deathBOB Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 60	I will not touch anypart of this beautiful machine that is visible from my desk... In fact, the blowhole will be the stock coolermaster with a shroud... Ill put a filter in if i do this... no worries...

02-04-2004, 02:21 AM	#15
iroc409 Cooling Savant Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: midwest side, yo Posts: 596	that case is definitely sweet. the interior isn't quite designed as i'd like tho so, what's the deal on the bi micros? i was thinking about a micro 2 for my machine... __________________ :shrug:

02-05-2004, 12:46 AM	#18
Arcturius Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Chippewa Falls, Wisconsin Posts: 294	The text also states that they use the same testbed for rad testing. Also recall that they are using only one liter of water. If you look at the graphs, they level off pretty rapidly, given the small amount of coolant. After inspecting more graphs, their testing time varies--they seem to stop testing whenever they feel the temperature has leveled off for about 10m. This _seems_ to require a temp increase of 0.3C or less, over that 10m, as near as I can tell. I added some linear trendlines in Excel, and over the 20 data points previous to temp drops (when the heat source appears to have been turned off), I seem to be getting slopes of less than 0.02C/interval (min=0.0126, max=0.0189), for the four spreadsheets I played with quick. __________________ Everything aircooled (I honestly don't know why you guys let me stay a member...) Always folding: WXP Pro: KD7R + Palomino 1800+ W2K3: 4x P3 Xeon 500 512KB (4 clients) Linux boxes: none Had to put them to use doing real work.

02-05-2004, 01:17 AM	#19
V12\|V12 Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2002 Location: Ohio-State! <--Money Hussle! SUCKS Posts: 292	DeathBob, If your case actually turns out like that pic you posted.. WOW, that is what I call a CLEAN setup... any way you could reverse that HCore setup so that it's pulling in cooler outside air, being up at the case top, will only expose it to the warmest air possible... but it should still perform well... Nice __________________ XP 1600+ AGOIA-Y (GreenLabel, UNLOCKED!@/ NF7-S 2.0/ PC 2700 DDR 10.5*172FSB(1806/ 1991 high), Vcore 1.792...@84.95Watts --86' Chevette Heater Core --1/2" Vinyl tubes --Via1300-Stealth Mod(QUIET!) ---Home made copper-tube block ---PVC small internal res

02-05-2004, 10:11 AM	#20
AngryAlpaca Cooling Savant Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Alberta Posts: 631	On the issue of the BIM and BIM2 sucking ass, I bring up this article. It's not technically a Black Ice article, but I believe that thermochill rads and the Black Ice radiators are probably close enough to make a valid comparison. They suck ass. Edit: I just realized that the BIM2 doesn't suck ass. It's just well below standard. Last edited by AngryAlpaca; 02-05-2004 at 10:20 AM. Reason: BIM2 doesn't suck ass

02-05-2004, 05:15 PM	#22
deathBOB Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 60	Guys, pleae carry out your radiator arguement somewhere else, unless you have something to add. I really cant decide between a WW or the Silverprop block... If I get the silverprop im gonna make a resevoir, where could i get a clear plastic tube for this?

02-05-2004, 09:49 PM	#23
AngryAlpaca Cooling Savant Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Alberta Posts: 631	Thermal resistance of 0.10?! Couple that with a kickass block, with a thermal resistance of about 0.12, and you've got a system that is outdone by air. Price is also a killer. Their only advantage is their size. I vote White Water for performance, but if you are worried about the splitter cracking, go for the Silverprop. The difference in performance is pretty small, and possibly unnoticeable, though.

02-05-2004, 09:54 PM	#24
deathBOB Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 60	Ok then, the Silverprop it is... Should be easy install to... Anyways, I have to wait for criticool to get some in. Im kinda excited, i got enough for my birthday this year to make a full setup...

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