Maze4-1 vs. MCW50-T Review

[KnightElite]

Tell me what you guys think. This is the first review we publish thus far. Obviously, it's not quite up to par with pHaestus' testing methodology . Any comments you can provide would be excellent.

http://www.ocfaq.com/reviews/shootou...0tvsmaze41gpu/

[Brians256]

Not bad, but it is more of a "it seems like a nice block/bad block" kind of review.

[Supa]

Could you explain exactly what you mean?

Its not just the site's first public review, its mine too and I'm very open to any suggestions you might have.

[BillA]

might be helpful if the criticisms were related to an actual problem

". . . the hose connection solution is far from ideal; no matter what size hose you use the fittings are made of plastic. While plastic obviously works, it isn't as durable as the metal barbs favored by the majority of manufacturers."
and
"Swiftech also needs to rethink their hose attachment solution. Plastic 3/8" ID quick connect fittings with plastic slide in 1/2" barbs is far from ideal."

are you aware of any - as in a single one ? - instances of the 'plastic' adapters leaking or otherwise failing ?
(are you aware that 1/2" tubing OD is the same as 3/8" copper ? - as in cut a piece and insert if you prefer metal ?)

are pumps with plastic barbs equally deficient ?
what about these bay res items ?
or the numerous wbs with plastic barb adapters ?

suggest you re-think your conclusions on 'plastic'

otherwise a useful review in that the measure of 'goodness' is the overclock attained, what this is all about

[killernoodle]

I use both metal and plastic barbs, and the metal barbs tend to leak easier (both on the threads and on the barb itself) and dont grab the tubing like the plastic barbs. Of course, in the event of a peltier disaster the plastic barbs are likely to melt and stuff, but then again the card will be toast anyways.

[Apocalipsis]

Well, hi all there since this is my first post here in procooling forums.

Now to the action, some days ago I post some words on OCAU about the cooling efficiency of the direct on-TEC design of the MCW50-T, I think a baseplate with microchannels or pin-fin design will be better for transfer the heat from the TEC to the water but this review proves me wrong.

Anyway there is a lot of variables involved here, like proper insulation of both block, etc...

What do you think about guys? any other has compare performance between this blocks and/or Silverprop Cyclone Fusion SL-T?

BillA? your words will be very appreciated.

Can the MCW50-T with a 172w pelt?

Thx in advance.

[KnightElite]

Yes, the MCW50-T can be taken apart, and a 172W TEC can be put in place of the 80W.

Thanks for the thoughts thus far.

[Apocalipsis]

I know that, but I mean if this block "can" cope with that kind of heat, 172w + GPU heat, we are talking about 200w or even more for a "tiny" waterblock.

[Supa]

Originally Posted by unregistered

might be helpful if the criticisms were related to an actual problem

". . . the hose connection solution is far from ideal; no matter what size hose you use the fittings are made of plastic. While plastic obviously works, it isn't as durable as the metal barbs favored by the majority of manufacturers."
and
"Swiftech also needs to rethink their hose attachment solution. Plastic 3/8" ID quick connect fittings with plastic slide in 1/2" barbs is far from ideal."

are you aware of any - as in a single one ? - instances of the 'plastic' adapters leaking or otherwise failing ?
(are you aware that 1/2" tubing OD is the same as 3/8" copper ? - as in cut a piece and insert if you prefer metal ?)

are pumps with plastic barbs equally deficient ?
what about these bay res items ?
or the numerous wbs with plastic barb adapters ?

suggest you re-think your conclusions on 'plastic'

otherwise a useful review in that the measure of 'goodness' is the overclock attained, what this is all about

I have never specifically heard of the MCW50-T's hose fittings breaking, but my point was that metal would be more secure. In the past they have had issues with plastic on other products. MCP300 anyone? I didn't dock them for a million points over plastic fittings. I said it wasn't ideal, not that it was bad.

Copper would work fine, but the vast majority are using clearflex or tygon.

thanks for your comments

Apocalipsis, I hope to have an SL-T soon to throw into the mix. Also, if you are looking at why the swiftech performs better, don't just look at the direct peltier cooling, consider the behemoth coldplate as well. total metal between heatsource and water on the mcw50-t is less than .25" with the DD its closer to .75"

[Supa]

Originally Posted by Apocalipsis

I know that, but I mean if this block "can" cope with that kind of heat, 172w + GPU heat, we are talking about 200w or even more for a "tiny" waterblock.

yes, it can deal with it. from the horse's mouth

[Brians256]

Originally Posted by Supa

Could you explain exactly what you mean?

Its not just the site's first public review, its mine too and I'm very open to any suggestions you might have.

I'm not unhappy with the review, because it answers a very useful question: how does the system enable you to overclock while changing just the block. The review doesn't really answer "how good are these blocks" because they are tested in a system, not a bench or a tightly controlled loop as pHaestus and some others do.

Again, not bad. I've seen MUCH worse reviews touted as official from very high-profile sites.

To improve... well it depends upon what you want your review to measure. Decide your goal(s) and then go from there, as that can clear up a whole lot of what seem like ambiguous decisions.

[BillA]

Supa
if you intend on posting here, and not getting the red-ass, you need to stick to actual facts

you cite the MCP300 as evidence of Swiftech's having had "issues with plastic on other products":
yes, as in a genuine pos product from Siccie - but this was a design/molding issue
- had nothing to do with John Guest push-in connectors, or their push-in adapters

your attempt to pillory all applications of plastics will be futile, failures or not

suggest you stick to demonstrable fact if you wish respect as a reviewer

"Copper would work fine, but the vast majority are using clearflex or tygon."
no, a piece of copper in place of the 'plastic' adapter - now it is metal !

[Apocalipsis]

Well Supa, looking forward to see some numbers from an SL-T block, please let us informed.

In other way, how about to make a thinner coldplate for the maze4-1 or a good baseplate for the mcw50-t, what sounds better?

[BillA]

Originally Posted by Apocalipsis

Well Supa, looking forward to see some numbers from an SL-T block, please let us informed.

In other way, how about to make a thinner coldplate for the maze4-1 or a good baseplate for the mcw50-t, what sounds better?

Apocalipsis
extract your head from your ass
what are Supa's qualifications as a TEC device designer ?
while he possibly will answer your question, what can he know of the relationship between heat flux density, bp thickness, and cooled area ?
- if you wish to 'know' something about the Maze4-1 coldplate or "a good baseplate" for the Swiftech MCW50-T, asking a reviewer is pointless

[Supa]

Originally Posted by unregistered

Supa
if you intend on posting here, and not getting the red-ass, you need to stick to actual facts

you cite the MCP300 as evidence of Swiftech's having had "issues with plastic on other products":
yes, as in a genuine pos product from Siccie - but this was a design/molding issue
- had nothing to do with John Guest push-in connectors, or their push-in adapters

your attempt to pillory all applications of plastics will be futile, failures or not

suggest you stick to demonstrable fact if you wish respect as a reviewer

"Copper would work fine, but the vast majority are using clearflex or tygon."
no, a piece of copper in place of the 'plastic' adapter - now it is metal !

ok

I'm not on a vendetta against plastic, it just isn't my favorite. :shrug:

I'll certainly take into account what you've said in the future.

[Supa]

Originally Posted by Apocalipsis

Well Supa, looking forward to see some numbers from an SL-T block, please let us informed.

In other way, how about to make a thinner coldplate for the maze4-1 or a good baseplate for the mcw50-t, what sounds better?

can't say.

as he said, I'm no expert on flux capacitors or bipolar thickness

[BillA]

Originally Posted by Supa

can't say.

as he said, I'm no expert on flux capacitors or bipolar thickness

lol, 2 points Supa

[Apocalipsis]

Oops, ok Bill just firing questions, please excuse my noob words.

Anyway I'm looking specialy for "your" opinion on this, but anyone is invited to answer if he wants.

About "extract your head from your ass", are that words needed?.

[BillA]

just think for a bit before posting
(if you ask a question, think about the possible range of answers - was the question useful ?)

I do not post re 'design' aspects, for such is my business and I have a very different knowledge base
no one here is seeking a lecture from me, this is a DIY place primarily

[Brians256]

Originally Posted by unregistered

just think for a bit before posting
(if you ask a question, think about the possible range of answers - was the question useful ?)

I do not post re 'design' aspects, for such is my business and I have a very different knowledge base
no one here is seeking a lecture from me, this is a DIY place primarily

Well, Bill, I think your comment was a bit out of proportion. There is a difference between what I would call native ignorance and deliberate ignorance. One is the ignorance we've all been born with. Noboby comes out of the womb knowing what heat flux is and how Fourier's equations help design waterblocks. This can be cured and should be kindly tolerated while we apply the remedy.

Now, when we see someone with a deliberate defense mechanism against incoming knowledge, then I can see a bit of rudeness used to help break up that smug bulwark.

So far, it appears that Apocalipsis is eager to learn but has not caught up to speed. He has been damaged by the current media system where reviewers are touted as experts (anyone know about Consumer Reports and how they add flavour to the data?) and nobody is taught to think (we wouldn't need to pay for "experts" if we thought for ourselves). Not his fault.

So, unless I've missed something, I say give him some slack.

[BillA]

nolo contendere
the trap of 'the obvious'

[Brians256]

Originally Posted by unregistered

nolo contendere
the trap of 'the obvious'

Danke schön.

[ChrioN]

you forgot to shot the baseinternals of the swiftecblock. nice pics though

[Supa]

Originally Posted by ChrioN

you forgot to shot the baseinternals of the swiftecblock. nice pics though

I did too shoot them put these two together:

http://www.ocfaq.com/reviews/shootou...ges/inside.jpg
http://www.ocfaq.com/reviews/shootou...es/peltier.jpg

[Apocalipsis]

Ok Bill, note taken, I understand your point now.